NY 193 : Werewolf Mania (GAME OVER- TOWN WIN)

[Xkfyu]

S, basically I have 6 people I won't be touching with a pole (i.e. NOT going to consider them for the lynch today.) These are (in the order they appear on the list of players): RC, Zulfy, Keyser, SS, Xkfyu & PK.

I'm open to discuss the lynch of any of the other six, but I prefer BS, SRMP or G Rob over the other 3.

Why would you not touch SS (cut a day short for no reason) or zulfy (a player that is in no way townie)

I think this should be reason enough for GRob & RC to drop their votes on Aj for today.

P.S. At this point SRMP only had one vote on them (Masquerade's).

Actually, thinking about this further, this completely settles the remaining concerns I had about both SS and Aj. This looks like scum trying to coordinate the mislynch of one of two town players, even if Almost doesn't turn out to be his buddy.

[Xkfyu]

Shit...

I think I'm wrong about Almost. Don't even bother asking me why, because I'm not going to tell you, but my reads are about to completely change.

I'll update my reads as soon as I figure out what they are.

[Fraggernaut]

Vote Count 4.5

Xkfyu (3) - AJ The Epic, SnarkySnowman, Almost50
AJ The Epic (2) - Golden Robster, RadiantCowbells
Nero (2) - Masquerade, Cobblerfone
Almost50 (2) - Xkfyu, pisskop
pisskop (1) - Nero Cain

Not Voting (0) - No One


With 10 alive it takes 6 to lynch!

Deadline is March 4th, 2016 at 7:50 AM EST.

[Xkfyu]

Oh yeah

UNVOTE: Almost50

[Xkfyu]

Ok so, my biggest town reads are Aj, Almost, and Snarky

My biggest scum reads are Robster, Masquerade, and Cobblerfone.

Every one else (RC, Nero, and pisskop) is somewhere in the middle. Everyone looks scummy to me at this point, so I'm not even going to bother with leans or slight reads on them, because they're pretty negligible.

So, I'm back to Robster being scum.

VOTE: Golden Robster

I'm also perfectly fine with lynching Masquerade and Cobblerfone (would definitely prefer Masquerade over Cobblerfone), but I'm not really interested in lynching outside of those 3, unless something else seriously changes.

[Masquerade]

I still want to lynch Nero, I want to lynch Xk less now.
Xk, I have issues with your scumread on me still. Now if you had a major townread on Nero I could get into it but I don't believe you have explained what you are scumreading me for exactly, besides this:

I really don't like how Masquerade reads something as townie to start with, and later reads it as scummy. And I don't think I'm buying his reasoning on the change. It seems like he's starts with the conclusion that he needs, and then builds the case around it.

And I think you just proved yourself it is in fact possible to change ones mind about something. I would love to get in depth as to what my reason is for my change of heart, but it has to do with an ongoing where I learnt that ika and Silverwolf are a thing.

[Xkfyu]

I'm gonna also go ahead and say this. Yes, I realize that my biggest town reads are currently on my wagon, and I don't expect them to see this as anything more than me doing a complete read change in order to buddy up to them.

As such, I now fully expect to be lynched today. This is still fine with me. We've had enough successful lynches that we can sacrifice me in order to prove my alignment. I've had a ton of interactions with people, and I think the game will become much more clear after my flip.

[Masquerade]

No.

[pisskop]

stop

mafia isnt about sacrifice. Mafia is about team, and if youve gotten to the point were you want to kamikaze something went wrong.

This whole, 'lynch me and when I flip town rope X' is an appeal to fallacy. it appeals to emotions insofar as it asks people not to kill you/shows your belief. then, it sipposes you were right in said beliefs.
Its annoying, andits subpar because the goal is not to fall into that rabbit hole tp begin with. Youre a suboptimal lynch, idk why you are letting pressurd get to you

[Xkfyu]

I still want to lynch Nero, I want to lynch Xk less now.
Xk, I have issues with your scumread on me still. Now if you had a major townread on Nero I could get into it but I don't believe you have explained what you are scumreading me for exactly, besides this:

I really don't like how Masquerade reads something as townie to start with, and later reads it as scummy. And I don't think I'm buying his reasoning on the change. It seems like he's starts with the conclusion that he needs, and then builds the case around it.

And I think you just proved yourself it is in fact possible to change ones mind about something. I would love to get in depth as to what my reason is for my change of heart, but it has to do with an ongoing where I learnt that ika and Silverwolf are a thing.

Ok, I'll use myself as an example.

I have stated that I believe Nero's reaction to ika's claim was emotional and knee-jerk, and those kinds of reactions usually come from town players. I've basically had that read on Nero since it all happened.

Now, suppose that just now (when I completely changed my reads) I stated that I had a scum read on Nero, and said that Nero's reaction to ika's claim was emotional and knee-jerk, and those kinds of reactions usually come from scum players.

This is an over-dramatized example to show you where I'm coming from, because it's basically what I felt like you did, but to a slightly lesser extent.

However, when you said "Because of ongoing reasons I can't discuss it," I didn't know that you meant factors that were outside of the game. If I had, I would have been a lot more likely to believe you. Where I normally play, absolutely nothing outside the game is talked about. Not even hinted at. So, to me, it just looked like a vague attempt at avoiding answering the question.

Yes, I completely understand that people can change their minds. In fact, they should be doing that. The difference between what I did, and how I perceived, what you did is that I still believe all the things that Almost did are extremely scummy. And I still stand by my "D1 Policy Lynch for Almost in every game going forward" stance. It's just that, to spite all that, I am pretty sure that he's town now

[Xkfyu]

stop

mafia isnt about sacrifice. Mafia is about team, and if youve gotten to the point were you want to kamikaze something went wrong.

This whole, 'lynch me and when I flip town rope X' is an appeal to fallacy. it appeals to emotions insofar as it asks people not to kill you/shows your belief. then, it sipposes you were right in said beliefs.
Its annoying, andits subpar because the goal is not to fall into that rabbit hole tp begin with. Youre a suboptimal lynch, idk why you are letting pressurd get to you

I'm not, by any means, letting pressure get to me. If I'm right, and this plays out like I think it will, you'll see why I posted that.

[Xkfyu]

I'm not saying that I WANT to be lynched. I'm saying that I BELIEVE I will be lynched. Don't worry, I'm still gonna fight it.

[Xkfyu]

stop

mafia isnt about sacrifice. Mafia is about team, and if youve gotten to the point were you want to kamikaze something went wrong.

This whole, 'lynch me and when I flip town rope X' is an appeal to fallacy. it appeals to emotions insofar as it asks people not to kill you/shows your belief. then, it sipposes you were right in said beliefs.
Its annoying, andits subpar because the goal is not to fall into that rabbit hole tp begin with. Youre a suboptimal lynch, idk why you are letting pressurd get to you

And I really believe you should move your vote.

[Almost50]

@Xf: I have a few comments (I could phrase them as questions the way you usually do, but believe me: IT'S ANNOYING. So, I won't).

1- Self sacrifice: Now you see how sometimes (only sometimes) a townie feels like they need to accept being the prime lynch target. Your motives may greatly differ from those of mine on D1, but I'm talking about the principle itself. "I'd even vote myself to help you open your eyes and remove myself from your sight as a possible distraction".

2- Although I do completely believe in self sacrifice for the greater good; I also believe it should be timely calculated. I mean, look at how Ricastle did it and it didn't help the town much, did it? Yours is unlikely to help the town either, bc the remaining scum are sly (i.e. good enough players). This is proven by the fact not only they're still alive, but by the fact we still cannot agree on one of them to lynch today.

3- On contrary; I do not see your updated read as an attempt to buddy up with anyone, and especially not with me. Enough damage has been done for me to start liking you all of a sudden. However, I've been reading you as a misguided town for most of the game.

4- Once again, my "vote them to get them to open their eyes" worked. I do realize your reread wasn't forced by vote per se, but it still helped in a minor way. There are more reasons for one player to vote another than just finding them scummy and actually wanting to lynch them.

5- Now please walk me through your process of thought as to how you got to Nero being a null read at this time, bc I still think he is the top lynch target for me. Also why is PK a lesser town read when -I think- we've established his innocence earlier (but this one can wait bc he's not the immediate lynch target of anyone at this time).

Now, let my vote go back where it should have stayed.

VOTE: Nero

[Masquerade]

However, when you said "Because of ongoing reasons I can't discuss it," I didn't know that you meant factors that were outside of the game.

I don't really get how that wasn't clear though. I mean, I can talk all I want about this ongoing game in this thread so that's not the ongoing that I meant. So I must have meant another ongoing which we are not supposed to discuss in other games.
But yeah, this happens a lot to me that I think what I said is pretty obvious for everyone to follow, but then turns out it isn't. And not just here on MS.

[Xkfyu]

1- Self sacrifice: Now you see how sometimes (only sometimes) a townie feels like they need to accept being the prime lynch target. Your motives may greatly differ from those of mine on D1, but I'm talking about the principle itself. "I'd even vote myself to help you open your eyes and remove myself from your sight as a possible distraction".

Like I said to pisskop, just be patient, and you'll understand.

2- Although I do completely believe in self sacrifice for the greater good; I also believe it should be timely calculated. I mean, look at how Ricastle did it and it didn't help the town much, did it? Yours is unlikely to help the town either, bc the remaining scum are sly (i.e. good enough players). This is proven by the fact not only they're still alive, but by the fact we still cannot agree on one of them to lynch today.

Actually, the remaining scum are apparently only alive because we've been too busy lynching their buddies lol. It's really not that hard for scum to hide in a crowd of scummy looking people.

3- On contrary; I do not see your updated read as an attempt to buddy up with anyone, and especially not with me. Enough damage has been done for me to start liking you all of a sudden. However, I've been reading you as a misguided town for most of the game.

We can debate the accuracy of my reads after the game.

4- Once again, my "vote them to get them to open their eyes" worked. I do realize your reread wasn't forced by vote per se, but it still helped in a minor way. There are more reasons for one player to vote another than just finding them scummy and actually wanting to lynch them.

I was reading back trying to link you to SRMP, because that's how sure I was that you were scum, and I was trying to get everyone to follow me. Then, I found that one thing that contradicted my initial assumption of you being scum. So, as scummy as you are to me, I have to look elsewhere.

5- Now please walk me through your process of thought as to how you got to Nero being a null read at this time, bc I still think he is the top lynch target for me. Also why is PK a lesser town read when -I think- we've established his innocence earlier (but this one can wait bc he's not the immediate lynch target of anyone at this time).

My strong town read on him earlier, and nearly all of my other reads as well, were based mostly on the assumption that you were scum. Now that I'm quite sure you aren't, I had to re-evaluate all my reads.

And, I'm not keen on the Nero lynch because of what I have stated earlier about his reaction to ika's claim. Plus, two out of my three current scum reads are on it. However, I'll admit that I am already starting to doubt that Masquerade is scum.

[Xkfyu]

However, when you said "Because of ongoing reasons I can't discuss it," I didn't know that you meant factors that were outside of the game.

I don't really get how that wasn't clear though. I mean, I can talk all I want about this ongoing game in this thread so that's not the ongoing that I meant. So I must have meant another ongoing which we are not supposed to discuss in other games.
But yeah, this happens a lot to me that I think what I said is pretty obvious for everyone to follow, but then turns out it isn't. And not just here on MS.

Put yourself in my shoes, and imagine that you've played all but a couple of games on a site where such things are strictly forbidden, and no one does it.

When I see something like that, I automatically assume that it is game related, because even hinting at outside game factors is a completely foreign concept to me. But you're right, knowing what I know now, it is perfectly clear now.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm not lynching anyone besides AJ today unless something massive happens that I wasn't expecting.

[pisskop]

def nero over gr


aj keeps lurking, ima pl it

[RadiantCowbells]

PL it with me then.

[pisskop]

AJ, you asked to place in. you specificly pmed the mod to take that role.

i dont like how you made this initative to play and now wont play. its scummy, and bet your ass ill put you down whatever your reason is

[Xkfyu]

@Almost: Are you aware of what prompted my complete 180 on you?

This may going without saying, but just to be safe, if you do know, don't say what it was. Also, don't say that you do know unless you are absolutely sure that you know what it was. There is a specific reason I'm asking.

[Xkfyu]

I'm not lynching anyone besides AJ today unless something massive happens that I wasn't expecting.

I'm not lynching Aj unless you have a guilty result saying that we should.

And, this time, you'll have to explicitly claim, in full, AND make it convincing to get my support for an Aj lynch.

[Xkfyu]

Oh shit. I completely forgot that PergrineV replaced Bebop, and about Bebop soft claimed a previous role. That probably led scum to believe that he wasn't a VT. So, that's probably the reason he was targeted.

[Almost50]

@Almost: Are you aware of what prompted my complete 180 on you?

Well, I'm not sure.. so.. no I don't. I mean I could guess 2 or 3 possibilities, bit the way you phrased your question forces me to respond with a big NO (bc I'm not sure).