Open 627: Mexican Standoff [endgame]

[Burning Crystal]

VOTE: Mad King Ashnard

[Mad King Ashnard]

Fairly sure that she's not town now, yeah.

[Xtoxm]

Preview Edit-Xtoxm: Thank you, sir. I do, however, think I'd appreciate a reason. For some reason, I don't think you'd just vote me because some people gave you reasons and you've suddenly changed your mind.

No, the influence they've had on my vote is only in the capacity of showing me there is ground support for it.

I was townreading you early on and pushed the wagon away from you but your play since has been totally flat. I still have a good level of paranoia over MKA and I can lynch him, but his response to the claims/softing at least appears to be town whereas yours does not, and it feels better voting here. You seem to have lost steam as we moved into the important part of the day, your reaction to 50s claim is to call him scum and you seem to still be maintaining that, reading things so differently (and likely wrong) is scummy in itself. For the most part you didn't respond to it at all instead choosing to fluff post, and now that you have given some content about it, it's not resonating with me in the way others are, ie acryon's 725.

You feel more like scum over the others in the same situation because FS is just completely absent, Kop's posting gives me more town feels overall than yours (though he's also slipped down my reads a bit), and with Kain the bar is lower.

I would usually agree with you about FS but he was scum in a game running simul to this where he was engaged and interested so i'm not reading anything into his disinterest here.

[Xtoxm]

Fairly sure that she's not town now, yeah.

Voting her leading cw makes you sure of this?

--

Looks like Titus is the chosen lynch, I have enough doubt that I don't want to campaign against it particularly but i'm not expecting a scumflip.

[Xtoxm]

VOTE: MKA

Considering the VC situation.

[Mad King Ashnard]

We're town yo.

I've only been mislynched on D1 once before. And that involved both BBT and Lilith.

Don't be the second.

[Xtoxm]

Eh.

VOTE: Kuroi

[KuroiXHF]

We're town yo.

I've only been mislynched on D1 once before. And that involved both BBT and Lilith.

Don't be the second.

It's fallacious to assert that you're not scum because you weren't scum in another game. As for the other points pointed to me, I'll get to it when work slows down later, but in short - I completely forgot to add in the votes since the last vote count. I take responsibility for that error.

[Kop]

I believe that Kop would be the best person to lynch today. He is my biggest scumread but only because of the way he posted. Some people who I consider town (Anenien, etc) believe he is town because of some posts in which he advises my previous slot owner. Unfortunately I don't consider advice as a town read.

Have you ever seen scum-Kop?

No, I haven't.

Texcat is also good choice in my opinion, I don't agree with anenien that there is some planned wagon on her.

Why is she scummy?

By the way, Chilled may be town.

I will answer this a bit later

Like I said, it felt like you were trying to manipulate the town into starting the wagon while looking innocent in the process. I am not sure how to put it. I still think you are scum.

Is that one still a tell?

To me it is. You don't think so? Personally I am not a big fan of "X plays in

this

manner when scum ; he isn't playing in

this

manner. Hence, he is town." logic.

I believe I've gave you a link to that game, along with some of my other scum games.

[Kop]

We're town yo.

I've only been mislynched on D1 once before. And that involved both BBT and Lilith.

Don't be the second.

To be fair, anybody and everybody can use that defence. It doesn't hold water. I've been mislynched many a time, I don't use that as a defence to votes being put on me.

[chilledtea]

I believe that Kop would be the best person to lynch today. He is my biggest scumread but only because of the way he posted. Some people who I consider town (Anenien, etc) believe he is town because of some posts in which he advises my previous slot owner. Unfortunately I don't consider advice as a town read.

Have you ever seen scum-Kop?

No, I haven't.

Texcat is also good choice in my opinion, I don't agree with anenien that there is some planned wagon on her.

Why is she scummy?

By the way, Chilled may be town.

I will answer this a bit later

Like I said, it felt like you were trying to manipulate the town into starting the wagon while looking innocent in the process. I am not sure how to put it. I still think you are scum.

Is that one still a tell?

To me it is. You don't think so? Personally I am not a big fan of "X plays in

this

manner when scum ; he isn't playing in

this

manner. Hence, he is town." logic.

I believe I've gave you a link to that game, along with some of my other scum games.

It is important to note that I don't really care that much about meta, personally. Also I feel like you are not in the center of the stage now. There's more stuff been uncovered.

[Kop]

I've said similar things to that in previous games when I've been scum, when trying to give reads out without really asserting myself to give the impression that I know too much.

Did you mean Zar's?

Possibly. I have done it a few times as scum, but not 100% sure if it was on this site.

My read on kuroi this game has consisted of "if he was scum he would be better than this right?"

Feels fake. Although I can't put my finger on anything definite.

Are you thinking along the lines of 'wants to provide a case, but can't find something suitable?'

I mean, that is one of those defensive comments where he can't come up with anything better and gone for a fail safe comment that can't really draw any attention too. Or can be read 'fence sitting'.

[chilledtea]

At this point I am 100% OK with either a Burning Crystal lynch or texcat lynch. I would like a discussion on this if people are interested.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: texcat

The vote is on texcat for 2 reasons : 1) Because she is a little bit away from getting lynched from what I've seen. 2) Because I suspect her more.

To put it simply, texcat's answer wasn't sufficient. Her reads I don't agree with, and I definitely disagree with both her and BC on voting Mad King. That is not happening.
This is making me very confused. But after some thinking I've realized that it would be for the best for us to go for one of these. I am OK with burning crystal as well. Her explanation for changing her vote on texcat wasn't good enough.

To push my case further on texcat, I've gone back and re-read the last 5 pages or so. She never got upset over getting voted by BC. In fact, she never even confronted BC about it. Just blank. No mention of why did you change your mind and all that. Nothing. Instead her biggest scumreads are almost and someone else, and BC is "null".

I am telling you, texcat is just as good if not better lynch than BC. I am OK with either of these for this Day.

[acryon]

Two things:
1) Eagle isn't in the game anymore. You need to relax with a cup of chilled tea.
2) You're coming up with excuses now. If you had such a huge problem with my drunk post, you'd mention it at the time. No one did, except Eagle.
...and I never got that five bucks.

Eh, I've pushed someone for a drunk post that I thought felt fake in another game and it just turned into a big TvT wall-off, which I'd rather not do here. Made more sense for me to hold it until I had more to talk about re: you. Also please...the walls...

*Sigh* I keep refreshing and refreshing in hopes to find something useful, but all I see is chit-chat or wall quotes with one-liner comments. You people don't seem to agree on anything at all. No 3 players have the same #1 lynch priority, and it looks like we're bargaining with each other, yet not even close to being successful at that.

Are you part of the town or not? You have a part to play in convincing people and getting people to agree, which I haven't seen you really do, and then you expect to leave and have it just happen organically?

We're town yo.

I've only been mislynched on D1 once before. And that involved both BBT and Lilith.

Don't be the second.

It's fallacious to assert that you're not scum because you weren't scum in another game. As for the other points pointed to me, I'll get to it when work slows down later, but in short - I completely forgot to add in the votes since the last vote count. I take responsibility for that error.

Are you playing dumb here? Obviously no one would genuinely assert that, and that's certainly not what MKA is doing here.

We're town yo.

I've only been mislynched on D1 once before. And that involved both BBT and Lilith.

Don't be the second.

To be fair, anybody and everybody can use that defence. It doesn't hold water. I've been mislynched many a time, I don't use that as a defence to votes being put on me.

Are you also playing dumb? MKA clearly being snarky, not making a legitimate defense to be argued with.

[Kop]

Two things:
1) Eagle isn't in the game anymore. You need to relax with a cup of chilled tea.
2) You're coming up with excuses now. If you had such a huge problem with my drunk post, you'd mention it at the time. No one did, except Eagle.
...and I never got that five bucks.

Eh, I've pushed someone for a drunk post that I thought felt fake in another game and it just turned into a big TvT wall-off, which I'd rather not do here. Made more sense for me to hold it until I had more to talk about re: you. Also please...the walls...

*Sigh* I keep refreshing and refreshing in hopes to find something useful, but all I see is chit-chat or wall quotes with one-liner comments. You people don't seem to agree on anything at all. No 3 players have the same #1 lynch priority, and it looks like we're bargaining with each other, yet not even close to being successful at that.

Are you part of the town or not? You have a part to play in convincing people and getting people to agree, which I haven't seen you really do, and then you expect to leave and have it just happen organically?

We're town yo.

I've only been mislynched on D1 once before. And that involved both BBT and Lilith.

Don't be the second.

It's fallacious to assert that you're not scum because you weren't scum in another game. As for the other points pointed to me, I'll get to it when work slows down later, but in short - I completely forgot to add in the votes since the last vote count. I take responsibility for that error.

Are you playing dumb here? Obviously no one would genuinely assert that, and that's certainly not what MKA is doing here.

We're town yo.

I've only been mislynched on D1 once before. And that involved both BBT and Lilith.

Don't be the second.

To be fair, anybody and everybody can use that defence. It doesn't hold water. I've been mislynched many a time, I don't use that as a defence to votes being put on me.

Are you also playing dumb? MKA clearly being snarky, not making a legitimate defense to be argued with.

Yeah I'm probably not thinking clearly in relevance to that post. My bad.

[KainTepes]

IS THERE SOMETHING I CAN HELP WITH....? I WANT TO HELP BUT ALL THE LONG POSTS ARE CONFUSING ME...

[chilledtea]

IS THERE SOMETHING I CAN HELP WITH....? I WANT TO HELP BUT ALL THE LONG POSTS ARE CONFUSING ME...

Who are you suspicious about? Give your thoughts of this day (day 1) in detail.

Also please write in normal punctuation without all capitals. If we write in all capitals, it would be annoying, right? So when you write everything in capitals, it feels like you are yelling, but you clearly aren't and that feels annoying.

If you respond to this with anything other than what is asked like, for eg if you respond with " WHY YOU HATE ME SO MUCH!!?!?!!?" then expect me to not reply back or take you seriously.

To give you a template to help you out with, refer to my own post : 705

[Aneninen]

It's me again.

To me it is. You don't think so? Personally I am not a big fan of "X plays in this manner when scum ; he isn't playing in this manner. Hence, he is town." logic.

By

"Is that one still a tell?"

I meant something else.
Namely, I read on the Wiki long ago that scums are hesitant to start a wagon which achieves a lynch, therefore they tend to jump on existing ones. I don't think

this

is a tell nowadays.
As for meta-ing, I know it's not an all-powerful thing. But I also know how different I am whenever I'm scum (even if most people don't spot it), so I think there's a difference at everyone else's gameplay.

Eagle was not good. Sure, he pushed against Kop, but Eagle's played a completely shit game - all game. Chilledtea is a lot more... chilled. Unfortunately for you, Chilledtea - you're going to inherit all of Eagle's negative points... at least until you earn the positive back.

To tell the truth, I wouldn't rule out him or KainThraddash as scum.
I don't think Eagle's a bad player; he's experimenting with different playstyles all the time. It's possible that his slot is scum and this playstyle worked out terribly. (Although if so, the Mod should examine the situation whether it was a tactical replace-out or not. Obviously, it's too early to speculate on that.)
As for KainThraddash, I have bigger issues. I believe he's used to Towns of Salem. (I've never played there but others here have so I believe their thoughts on that.) So, it's not about his posting style – it's something else. His posts are "fluctuating": sometimes he's noisy and very active, sometimes he dissapears for long periods. I can imagine a scum behind that very easily. (Whenever he gets FoS-ed, he walks away until the "water gets still" again.)
Also, any of those slots may be coached by their buddy or buddies. Since plenty of us have been giving them advice (later I realized, Daves was right; he hadn't been the only one), basically plenty of players are possible scums if any of those two flips scum.

This seems like an OMGUS.

Actually BurningCrystal voted me before I voted them. Or am I wrong?

Texcat's 761 is a bit vague, compared to the lenght of the post. Although she doesn't usually say more, as far as I remember.

I am

really

tempted to vote Fire Starter now. I still see his posts elsewhere on MafiaScum. I'm going to

ask the mod

to give him a prod and see if he can do something useful.

Fire Starter is not within prod range

Fire Starter has requested replacement.

Either flaking out as scum or leaving because of being uninterested in the game. Right now we can't decide which one.

Mod, can we get time extension?

It thus follows my reads haven't changed much, and I'm still not voting outside of KT, Kop, chilledtea or Mad King. One thing I've learned from a recent game though is to never post a full list of reads on everybody. It only makes it easier for scum to pick their targets from the universally town read pool.

Nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn
Nightkills are sources of WIFOM.
By the way, I accidentally read

town Deadpool

instead of

town read pool

...

I do agree that we need to agree on a lynch since we only have two days left. I think we should take some of the more popular lynches and decide on one.

Even if we don't get any extension, we need to consolidate as soon as we can.

Right now, the three most popular lynches are Mad King Ashnard, Burning Crystal and Kop. I think we should decide on one because it's either that or no one dies.

As for me, Burning Crystal is the preffered lynch. I'd vote for Mad King if I must. Kop is a bad idea.

VOTE: Burning Crystal
I feel like Titus is using different heads as an excuse to justify voting us when her behaviour towards us heavily indicated that she read us as town. Now, TN451 FINALLY shows up and it's to support voting someone that Titus can't? Like, gone the entire game but now he finally shows up and the reason is to vote someone Titus couldn't get away with?
If I'm wrong here, sorry I guess. But there's been so much nasty stuff from the slot that I can't justify not voting it to myself.

Was that a consolidation?

________

Going on soon.

Who likes washing the dishes?

[acryon]

I am

really

tempted to vote Fire Starter now. I still see his posts elsewhere on MafiaScum. I'm going to

ask the mod

to give him a prod and see if he can do something useful.

Fire Starter is not within prod range

Fire Starter has requested replacement.

Either flaking out as scum or leaving because of being uninterested in the game. Right now we can't decide which one.

And we won't decide, because it's a null.

[Aneninen]

Fourth, you're really wish washy with your vote and you've begun vote shopping for a new wagon already. On the one hand, you say you're tempted to vote Fire Starter (765) but in your next post you state that Fire Starter shouldn't even be an option.

I can see no contradiction there.

Given MKA's recent post however, I'm a little askance about that. He's twisting how this head feels about him in order to paint any future attempt to vote him in a bad light. Oh well, the other hydra head isn't townreading our slot either. Better try to paint the dissonance as scummy.

That's true, on the other hand. As if noone had ever seen hydra dissonance.

We're town yo.
I've only been mislynched on D1 once before. And that involved both BBT and Lilith.
Don't be the second.

Now, THAT bothered me a lot.
Putting someone on a pedestal and making themselves bad if they're acting in the undesired way is a well-known tactique of manipulation IRL.

To be fair, anybody and everybody can use that defence. It doesn't hold water. I've been mislynched many a time, I don't use that as a defence to votes being put on me.

And this is also true.
Getting mislynched on Day1 can be a result of a terrible gameplay – but of scum strategy too!

Are you thinking along the lines of 'wants to provide a case, but can't find something suitable?'
I mean, that is one of those defensive comments where he can't come up with anything better and gone for a fail safe comment that can't really draw any attention too. Or can be read 'fence sitting'.

I don't know. Something was not quite okay in that 744–746 part.

Acryon, do you have an updated readlist?

IS THERE SOMETHING I CAN HELP WITH....? I WANT TO HELP BUT ALL THE LONG POSTS ARE CONFUSING ME...

Wellshyt, see my previous post!

[acryon]

Acryon, do you have an updated readlist?

I just gave what was essentially one a few posts of mine ago. I don't feel the need for a full drawn-out one at this point because it would contain a good handful of nulls which are a waste of everyone's time.

[chilledtea]

It's me again.

To me it is. You don't think so? Personally I am not a big fan of "X plays in this manner when scum ; he isn't playing in this manner. Hence, he is town." logic.

By

"Is that one still a tell?"

I meant something else.
Namely, I read on the Wiki long ago that scums are hesitant to start a wagon which achieves a lynch, therefore they tend to jump on existing ones. I don't think

this

is a tell nowadays.
As for meta-ing, I know it's not an all-powerful thing. But I also know how different I am whenever I'm scum (even if most people don't spot it), so I think there's a difference at everyone else's gameplay.

He didn't start the wagon. What he did was he tried to push suspicion or add pressure on KT but very subtly. Also I am not really feeling that strong about him now.

[pisskop]

Ranger has replaced Fire Starter

[pisskop]

duck . . .

[pisskop]

duck . . .