Mini 1773 : Symphonic Metal Mafia (Game Over?!)

[Wisdom]

/confirm

[Wisdom]

VOTE: maestro

[Wisdom]

VOTE: maestro
because i like short day 1s

VOTE: nnn

[Wisdom]

VOTE: Masquerade

[Wisdom]

Why are there absolutely no problems with Jeanne also doing it?

[Wisdom]

You think she was joking?

[Wisdom]

I don't see a "lol" in either of her posts.

[Wisdom]

Masquerade is scum, confirmed. This post was just repeating things.

[Wisdom]

What would you say if I told you Jeanne "jokingly" claimed vig in the same way while she was scum in the previous game I played with her?

[Wisdom]

Masquerade is scum, confirmed. This post was just repeating things.

Don't be an idiot. There were 2 new pages and I started reading and writing my post from page 3.

You have not said a single original thing.

[Wisdom]

I don't like Shiro either

[Wisdom]

I don't like Shiro either

Why not?

Her only post was attacking the guy being attacked by everyone, didn't give me good vibes

[Wisdom]

Killthestory is town
I don't like Dierfire either

[Wisdom]

I like KTS's stubbornness as town
I don't like Dierfire's tone or his vote on KTS

[Wisdom]

{Masquerade, Dierfire, Shiro, Jeanne, Jake} is my lynchpool right now, in that order of read strength

[Wisdom]

People don't V/LA to get away from pressure, that's null.

You almost made me unvote Masquerade but I like your note on Dierfire.

[Wisdom]

Sure. It doesn't look faked to me here.

Do you have any reads?

[Wisdom]

Like tbh I just came out of a game were scum disappeared right when the pressure was on and look and behold, said pressure disappeared and they survived to day 3 despite my constant pushing of the slot.

Disappearing/Lurking is different than declaring V/LA.

[Wisdom]

VOTE: dierfire

[Wisdom]

Because?

[Wisdom]

VOTE: jake

[Wisdom]

the 2 people I hate the most right now are

kill and farmer

. Posts just rub me the wrong way.

Fire and farmer

I dislike atm

You can't even keep your reads straight

[Wisdom]

Why?

[Wisdom]

explain why I am scum. Because me making a typo at 5 am doesn't make me scum and that's basically the only reason you voted me. If you are town, do better. if you are scum carry on

Yeah, this is scum.

Maestro, your gut is bad

[Wisdom]

Shiro pls. The first ones are before he went to bed and the other is when he woke up. I know you have to interact with your scumbuddy but be less obvious

[Wisdom]

Timezones.

[Wisdom]

Because that wasn't obvious

[Wisdom]

You're just posting filler

[Wisdom]

If that's the case you should roll dice to catch scum because nobody can tell the differences between town and scum things

[Wisdom]

Not at all. That's what he said.

[Wisdom]

I don't see how stubbornness is special. It can be read like everything else.

[Wisdom]

Maestro is town, so is nnn. Why the townlean on Masquerade?

pedit: @Snarky

[Wisdom]

You heard the guy, let's roll dices, scumhunting is impossible

[Wisdom]

Kuroi you're still voting Killthestory, fix that please

[Wisdom]

Because he's town and there are people who are actually scummy

[Wisdom]

No, it's because she claims like that as scum

[Wisdom]

Because he's town and there are people who are actually scummy

You know better than to assume people to simply take your word for the hell of it. However, I'll vote people if they're scummier. Now tell me, who

is

scummier?

{Masquerade, Dierfire, Shiro, Jeanne, Jake} is my lynchpool right now, in that order of read strength

[Wisdom]

I'm not answering to stupid questions

[Wisdom]

I don't like this gamestate. Top wagons are town and scum hide in personal 1v1s to look town.

[Wisdom]

Read the game.

[Wisdom]

I don't like this gamestate. Top wagons are town and scum hide in personal 1v1s to look town.

Wait, you said that you supported Maestro. In fact, he was your strongest scum read.

what? I nowhere said that.

[Wisdom]

Maestro is also town. Vote actual scum please

[Wisdom]

dude I never scumread Maestro

[Wisdom]

Kill/Wisdom/Masq are good leads for scum.

remember this when Jake flips scum. Rule of three says one of those are scum.

[Wisdom]

hint, it's Masq

[Wisdom]

@Wisdom

You should revote Masquarede and make him a valid wagon against the bleh wagons that exist.

No thanks, I prefer Jake

[Wisdom]

You're not town

[Wisdom]

Sure I am. My play is obv town and even my role pm says I am. You are either having a bad game or are scum yourself. Looking at your contributions thus far I'm leaning towards scum. You have not done anything helpful at all and you refuse to vote obv scum.

If you guys don't see this is scum you should quit

[Wisdom]

wut

Shiro is greek, I'd never guess

[Wisdom]

wut

Shiro is greek, I'd never guess

Yup

Born,raised and currently living in Greece ^_^

same here

[Wisdom]

KTS was really opportunistic against Jake there

No, Jake is the one who was opportunistic on KTS. KTS is just seeing Jake being obvscum.

[Wisdom]

*shrug* You're lynching town, not me

[Wisdom]

What scum motivations could there be for it? The top two wagons at the time were his an Maestro's, and Maestro's wagon didn't seem to be going anywhere. Of the other wagons, the only one that would seem to have had any momentum was Jake's, being pushed aggressively by Wisdom. So I could see him anticipating this wagon's rise and hopping on before it looks opportunistic to do so.

This is quite the stretch. Scum would never think the Jake wagon is going anywhere the way I am pushing it.

[Wisdom]

and I don't buy that Jake's post was actually scummy enough to warrant such a shift.

So basically, because you can't see Jake is scum, whoever does see it is scum.

[Wisdom]

According to him. Not according to everyone.

[Wisdom]

You're cute, but no

[Wisdom]

yay let's label every obnoxious fight TvT because we can

[Wisdom]

yay let's label every obnoxious fight TvT because we can

I didn't label it tvt. Don't put words in my mouth.

Then what was the point of your post?

[Wisdom]

So basically you called us both town

[Wisdom]

Why are you scumreading Maestro?

[Wisdom]

VOTE: Killthestory This is just easier. Plus, it should be evident why I think he's scum.

It isn't. Explain.

[Wisdom]

VOTE: Killthestory This is just easier. Plus, it should be evident why I think he's scum.

It isn't. Explain.

The more I confuse myself with Maestro and Masquerade, the more frustrated I get. I know Killthestory is someone I'm most comfortable is scum. The hope is that the differences and ways to distinguish Maestro and Masqerade apart will be evident soon enough.

That didn't explain why Killthestory is scum.

[Wisdom]

Other than this and post 364, which is basically a scumslip,

That's not a scumslip, Maestro.

[Wisdom]

I'm blocking you, and I'm not dealing with you in this game.

Also, be advised this is 100% serious. If you want me to respond to anything KTS says from now on you will have to quote it because I will not see it in this thread.

Blocking does not work in games.

[Wisdom]

That scumslip though lol.

Explain to me why anybody would be in the mindset of "emulating" a behavior for a Town game. You don't emulated anything in order to tell the truth.

He meant he would try/adopt my playstyle in his next game. Emulate was bad wording.

[Wisdom]

Town should try to be as transparent as possible.

Nope. Town's job is to identify and lynch scum. Not appear townish or transparent.

[Wisdom]

I felt like his comment about me ignoring him and stuff making the game exhausting felt somewhat town

pedit: @shiro

[Wisdom]

Also if you don't explain yourself and answer questions it makes achieving the goal of "lynching scum" harder cause in order to "lynch scum" you have to have people follow you and most good players will want some actual reasons/explanation.

Unfortunately for you, I get people to follow me without needing such stuff.

[Wisdom]

What do you disagree with?

[Wisdom]

Current scumpile: {Jake, Dierfire, Jeanne, Snarky, Masquerade}, in that order of read power.

[Wisdom]

Every townie has (in theory anyway ) the obligation to not only identify scum but get them lynched and you can't do that without help so you should try to be convincing.

You have four votes on you, so you're incorrect that I have to do anything more than I'm doing

[Wisdom]

If most don't, how do you use it to argue someone isn't town?

[Wisdom]

Man this conversation is boring.
Can we lynch already?

We can when you vote Jake

[Wisdom]

VOTE: Jake

[Wisdom]

I don't care about Dier, Jake is still scum. You had your mislynch, now we're lynching Jake.

[Wisdom]

@Wisdom Well, I have to be a party pooper, but......what if he's town? What will you do then?

If you don't answer this question directly within next five posts or throw some vague stuff out, I am voting you.

He's not town

[Wisdom]

I am just tired. I've seen townies be mislynched too many times because of an attitude like that.

You mean like how you mislynched KilltheStory?

[Wisdom]

Read his posts for your explanation

[Wisdom]

{Jake, Snarky, Masquerade, Maestro} = lynchpool, that order.

[Wisdom]

pedit: All I see is you accusing him because of a typo, him defending himself and you goading him on till he snapped so you can use that as evidence to further your fake case. Reminds me of what Tere did to me back when I first joined and I am not gonna let that shizz slide.

You're not very good at reading

[Wisdom]

Jeanne, yesterday you voted Jake. What changed since?

[Wisdom]

Kill was bleeding towniness and Jake hammered him for attitude. That is like best scum cover for hammering town.

That's why Maestro is now in the scumpile btw. I don't buy personal dislike as an excuse to hammer like that.

[Wisdom]

In fact, that should be pushed more.

VOTE: Maestro

[Wisdom]

Yeah, Maestro is scum

[Wisdom]

Tough luck Maestro. You left me alive thinking I'd keep tunneling on Jake, huh?

[Wisdom]

Alright. Yes, the game would be much better with KTS in here. He was obvtown and a good scumhunter, as proven by the fact he caught Dierfire.

And really? We didn't have numbers for a lynch like one week before the deadline? That's the weakest argument ever.

[Wisdom]

No, he caught him. You just didn't understand his ways.

[Wisdom]

Jeanne your link isn't working, try again

[Wisdom]

And what are you talking about? Did someone I scumread flip town?

[Wisdom]

No, you would, because I defended you yesterday and you thought I'd keep doing it.

[Wisdom]

Jake is town, Jeanne. Maestro isn't.

[Wisdom]

I've said why Maestro is scum, Jeanne. Address my reasoning.

[Wisdom]

Okay. Then I don't care if you take me seriously. Continue making a fool of yourself.

[Wisdom]

Have they flipped, Jeanne? Has anyone I've scumread flip town?

[Wisdom]

Sure they might, and?

Yeah, I understand you're put off by the certainty I give off but you have to understand it's how I play. Me saying that there's no way Jake is flipping town doesn't mean I believe Jake can't be town. I say a lot of things.

[Wisdom]

Who says I am not considering these possibilities, Jeanne? Are you in my mind? All is not what it seems.

The fact I'm now calling Jake town doesn't tell you anything?

[Wisdom]

{Jake, Snarky, Masquerade, Maestro} = lynchpool, that order.

Remove Jake, put Maestro in front

[Wisdom]

That's not comparable though, because none of my scumreads have flipped town. If they flipped town and I didn't reconsider, then you'd have a point.

[Wisdom]

Sigh. You don't understand. Read 585 again until you get it.

[Wisdom]

Good job, you're still missing the point thoug

[Wisdom]

though*

[Wisdom]

Jeanne was saying I'm like Tere. She already explained it.

[Wisdom]

And I have reasoning. You hammered an obvtown who happened to be scumreading scum and excused it by personal dislike. This is the reason you're scum, that you left me alive is just an extra.

[Wisdom]

I am not certain. I appear certain. I already explained it to you.

[Wisdom]

And no, not interested in hydraing.

[Wisdom]

He wasn't obvTown?

Like, no. It's inexcusable to say this. If he were obvTown I couldn't've hammered him because he wouldn't've been at fucking L-1, Wisdom.

He was at L-1 because people didn't like his attitude.

[Wisdom]

What makes you think SK?

[Wisdom]

PEDIT: The Scum death implies either a Vig, SK, or less likely multiball, and the fact that he commented on it could mean he's setting the stage for a Vig claim off of the "confirmable" SK role, given the fact that everything would be true about it except his alignment.

Did I ask you? Thanks for more proof you're scum.

[Wisdom]

He wasn't obvTown?

Like, no. It's inexcusable to say this. If he were obvTown I couldn't've hammered him because he wouldn't've been at fucking L-1, Wisdom.

He was at L-1 because people didn't like his attitude.

I disagree with this.

It's a fact.

[Wisdom]

You hammered an obvtown

to you maybe but to a bunch of other players most of who are town, they disagreed with you. Even if all scum was on the wagon (highly unlikely since you were off it) that still says a good position the town didn't find him "obv town"

Nope, you're possibly the only one who was town and thought he's scum because you're a simpleton and you expect townies to follow a guidebook when playing

[Wisdom]

And I think it's town, because I assume scum would post intent to hammer and wait it out a little to see how safe a hammer would be knowing Kts was going to flip town.

Yeah, no. Scum would jump at the opportunity for such an easily excused hammer.

[Wisdom]

fwiw those posts helped me townread Snarky, so they were pretty productive. Maestro and Masquerade it is.

[Wisdom]

Who the fuck cares about convincing anyone? Snarky sees scum Maestro and votes scum Maestro. You keep impeding progress because you disagree with how townies choose to play.

[Wisdom]

No, I townread people who are town

[Wisdom]

I never claimed to be infallible

[Wisdom]

Maestro is getting lynched and is flipping scum, and all you will look like will be like a fool. And I will enjoy it.

[Wisdom]

Good, then vote yourself

[Wisdom]

You're not flipping town.

[Wisdom]

I am not wrong, sorry, you're dying.

[Wisdom]

Why do you accept you're going to be lynched exactly?

[Wisdom]

So you have no scumreads basically?

[Wisdom]

Yeah, because I'm the only player in this game and my word is law.

Why are you not trying to get your scumreads lynched?

[Wisdom]

I know how you get, Wisdom. Your cockiness is only one symptom of the fact that, in fact, yes - more often than not you get what you want in games, regardless of alignment. You haven't given a shit about me and my mindset today; you never asked about my reads, which was troubling until I realized you're still stuck on the hammer from yesterday. You're absolutely fixated. I've needed to reevaluate the game since last Night ended.

PEDIT: FFS FA

Why. are. you. not. trying. to. lynch. your. scumreads.

What I do doesn't matter.

[Wisdom]

Like, to make this absolutely clear. I do not care who your scumreads are. I do not care if you are sharing them or not. I am asking why you're not trying to lynch them and instead you're settling that one person scumreading you means you're dead and you shouldn't bother anymore.

[Wisdom]

Yeah, it happens. When you're scum. This is a copy-paste from your reaction to my tunnel on you in Masons and Mafia 3 years ago.

[Wisdom]

I don't see how that's relevant. I was saying it's the same. Much like here, you gave up there, argued that nothing you'll do will convince me you aren't scum, and focused on AtE about you not caring.

[Wisdom]

No, it's AtE. You are acting like you don't care so that you are townread for it.

[Wisdom]

Then why are you not replacing out?

[Wisdom]

Okay. You've claimed scum for me.

[Wisdom]

Reflecting on EoD, it feels too scummy to be scum for Maestro to hammer kill like that just for being an ass.

Too scummy to be scum is a fallacy. The fact is that this hammer was easily excusable because of the general dislike on KTS's attitude.

[Wisdom]

Scum don't follow patterns. Like town don't follow patterns. Expecting them to do things is dumb.

[Wisdom]

And you're objectively wrong as scum have used dislike as an excues in countless games

[Wisdom]

excuse*

[Wisdom]

no. because town is trying to looktown, but scum isn't trying to look scum.

Except nowhere Maestro was trying to look scum. His hammer was excused by dislike, and he has had tons of "lynch me tomorrow/today" AtE moments which are there simply so he looks TOWN, not scum.

[Wisdom]

You're making too many assumptions when him being scum is the simplest explanation. Also, I have nothing to ask myself because I know Maestro. I've played with him as town and scum. This is scum-Maestro.

[Wisdom]

He had that time. It was called Night 1. The reason I continued tunneling on Jake was to see if he would do things after the thing that supposedly prevented him (KTS) was gone. He didn't.

[Wisdom]

Yes Jeanne, because scum are capable of bussing. What matters is not what the person that was hammered flips, but what motivation the hammerer had for hammering.

[Wisdom]

Link to the game where he supossedly acted exactly the same way as scum.

Game

Start from 939

[Wisdom]

You can contribute with your own reads and make your own pushes. Which you're not doing.

[Wisdom]

Sure, you can argue I bussed him if you want to

[Wisdom]

@Shiro: You were fine voting Jake for that hammer, but then you find out it was Maestro and your vote moved to me. I don't get the thought process behind it, talk to me about it.

That isn't a bad point.

[Wisdom]

Though, nah, if Shiro was Maestro's buddy there's no way she'd think Jake hammered.

[Wisdom]

Well Maestro's scum though, and tbh you look more town now. Maybe I should reread plain farmer for the third.

[Wisdom]

Yeah I don't like a plain farmer either. He can replace Masquerade in my scumpile.

[Wisdom]

In 684 you say you're scumreading Maestro because his appearance here is like previous games in which he was scum. Was this also the basis for your scumread on Jake?

That's not why I'm scumreading Maestro

[Wisdom]

Also farmer is scum and these posts made me more confident

[Wisdom]

Wisdoms basis for my scum read is I said dire instead of kill

Not quite

[Wisdom]

Eh. I think I was too quick to write Jake off as VI. He is only posting to discredit me now and has stopped scumhunting and it's starting to worry me again.

[Wisdom]

Maestro, farmer, Jake. It's two of them. Everyone else is town.

[Wisdom]

Side note 2: Is it me or Dierfire post seem really slow ? Like, reading them I felt like they were dead. Can't truly explain the feeling though. Maybe it is because he is using way too many words to say way too l little.

Shiro is town for this if nothing else. This isn't a buddy accusation.

[Wisdom]

Who's my buddy, Jake?

[Wisdom]

VOTE: farmer

[Wisdom]

I've decided. It's farmer/Jake.

[Wisdom]

Scum don't follow patterns. Like town don't follow patterns. Expecting them to do things is dumb.

Says the guy who just used 3 year old Meta...

That's different. I didn't say "Scum in general do X, you did X, you are scum." I said that Maestro's behavior was identical to his behavior in a similar situation where he was scum.

[Wisdom]

And I'm back to thinking Maestro is scum after that post

Fuck this

[Wisdom]

VOTE: Jake
Back to this.

[Wisdom]

I can't decide who is town in {Jake, Maestro, farmer}. All of them look scummy but in farmer's case this is my first game with him so I don't know if it's playstyle I'm scumreading.

[Wisdom]

What I see in there is a forced scumread on KTS. There were lots of reasons for KTS to vote Jake (even on gut, if nothing else), but farmer somehow deduces that none of them is applicable and the stretch that is "he anticipated Jake will make a good counterwagon" was more logical.

[Wisdom]

and I don't buy that Jake's post was actually scummy enough to warrant such a shift.

And I have to repeat that this was really awful. "I don't see Jake's post as scummy to warrant such a shift, therefore it makes no sense that someone else who is not me saw it as such and voted Jake".

[Wisdom]

VOTE: farmer

[Wisdom]

Jeanne you're still doing the thing where you think the only things in my mind are the things that are in my posts

[Wisdom]

So who's the third scum, Jake? Why have you stopped scumhunting?

[Wisdom]

That's alright.

[Wisdom]

I already showed you how the situation you're describing can't be compared to me, but okay. You'll look like a fool, not me.

[Wisdom]

You are not really trying to get me lynched though. I don't see you trying to get anyone to vote me.

[Wisdom]

Whatever it is you're describing, it's silly.

[Wisdom]

Because things are not black and white, unfortunately for you.

[Wisdom]

Jeanne, I don't give a damn about your situations. I've tried making you see the light. You don't want to. Keep voting me. I don't care.

[Wisdom]

buh bye

[Wisdom]

Maestro, please start playing like town now. I'm positive it's Jake/farmer and I'd like confirmation in you stopping being a scumbutt.

[Wisdom]

Jeanne, you're annoying.

[Wisdom]

Okay. So vote farmer with me then.

[Wisdom]

zzz

[Wisdom]

I don't know, I just know Jeanne doesn't understand how I play and explains it all with "scum".

[Wisdom]

Shiro, thoughts on farmer?

[Wisdom]

You're wrong about Masq. His posts today are pretty town.

[Wisdom]

yeah i'm scared man, it's obvious

[Wisdom]

mhm

[Wisdom]

I never said I'm perfect or infallible, you're just incapable of understanding how I play even though I unnecessarily explained it to you.

[Wisdom]

And I'll repeat once more that nobody I'm scumreading has flipped town so your point continues being awful

[Wisdom]

No, I never said I was never wrong in my reads, I said what I just said, that nobody I am scumreading in this game has flipped town like you're claiming. I, like every other player, am sometimes right and sometimes wrong.

[Wisdom]

Jeanne, you're not reading what I'm posting :/

[Wisdom]

For the last time.

I am nowhere saying that I am some infallible god of scumhunting that is never wrong. In ASOIAF I was not just wrong about massive, I was also wrong about Radja, Drixx and ABR. In every game there will be at least one townie I will wrongly scumread. It's normal. Hell, in my wiki I say that most of the time my tunneling is on town.

So no. You have misunderstood if you think that what I am saying is that I am always right. I am not always right. What I keep telling you is that your argument does not make sense. You are arguing that when X is scumreading Y, Y flips town, and X continues being arrogant like nothing happened, then X is likely scum. Which is a good point, not always of course as there ARE such arrogant townies, but it's a valid point. However, I keep telling you that I can't be likened to X in this theory, because none of my scumreads THIS GAME have flipped town. If either Jake or farmer flipped town and I continued insisting that everyone should follow me, then you would be able to make this point, but not now.

Do you get it now? If not, too bad, because this is the last time I am trying. I am trying to have extra and extra patience with you but I can only have so much patience.

[Wisdom]

Maestro, I expect you to be town. Stopping caring about the game without replacing out is hurting the game and I can't fucking see it as town. Start playing. I am townreading everyone except you, Jake and farmer. All those others did things that made me see they are town. I know one of you is town and I want to see it from you too.

[Wisdom]

Yes, but when they flip town, you'd make another excuse to justify yourself.

That's only your assumption, and it's false.

[Wisdom]

I asked you multiple times what will you do if they flip town. You never gave a straight answer and think I am annoying for even suggesting that they could flip town.

Yes, because it serves no purpose to ask me what I will do if they flip town. Regardless of my alignment, there is only one correct answer to this, which is "I will reread and reevaluate". You gain nothing by asking me this.

[Wisdom]

Where was I wrong this game, Jeanne?

[Wisdom]

So what are you expecting exactly, that I will change my playstyle because I was wrong?

[Wisdom]

Once again, what I say is not necessarily what I believe. I can say lots of things in order to get better reads from people.

Your problem is that you take everything at face value.

[Wisdom]

Yes, for real. I am still bitter about how you played me and I decided not to let it happen again. I have scum in my grasp. Do you expect me to let go and regret it later?

Well, I'm not scum. You should let go and look at other people. All you have for me is just dislike for my playstyle anyway.

[Wisdom]

@Snarky Agree/Disagree with the points on farmer?

[Wisdom]

I was about to say that Jake was setting up another bullshit tunnel on Snarky, but I actually don't like Snarky in this exchange.

[Wisdom]

Nice chainsaw

Jake / Maestro it is

What worries me most is that you are ignoring farmer and are pushing those two. Why isn't it farmer/Jake?

[Wisdom]

town reaction would be

There you go again. There's no "town reaction". Each player plays differently.

[Wisdom]

Shiro, in Machina Snarky got mislynched because he was scummy and scum capitalized on it. Don't be hasty; even if Snarky is scum, it's with farmer. We lynch farmer first in any case.

[Wisdom]

How did he lie here again?

[Wisdom]

No, I want you to start playing the game instead of focusing on your dislike of my playstyle

[Wisdom]

The problem is you don't think I'm scum, you just dislike my playstyle

[Wisdom]

@Wisdom Like, you expect me to know your reasoning instantly and follow you without questions.

No, nobody forces you to follow me. You can disagree and push your own scumreads.

[Wisdom]

Nope, players are judged by their motivation for doing things. Playstyle is playstyle.