What town motivations could there be for it? He could think Jake is scum, but as he said, he had townread Jake before then (and seemed to be rather strongly townreading him), and I don't buy that Jake's post was actually scummy enough to warrant such a shift. He could be testing for a reaction, but Jake has provided enough content so far that I don't think he'd be an appropriate choice for this.
What scum motivations could there be for it? The top two wagons at the time were his an Maestro's, and Maestro's wagon didn't seem to be going anywhere. Of the other wagons, the only one that would seem to have had any momentum was Jake's, being pushed aggressively by Wisdom. So I could see him anticipating this wagon's rise and hopping on before it looks opportunistic to do so.
So despite the risk of incurring his burns:
VOTE: Killthestory
townielike depth of thought
In post 705, a plain farmer wrote:Snarky's starting to look bad. His case against Maestro in 613 is pretty much a bunch of quotes that the reader is supposed to interpret negatively.
@ Snarky
Do you have any prior experience with Maestro?
In post 609, SnarkySnowman wrote:Can we drop this and agree Wisdom is town? I definitely follow his line of thinking here and I think it's distracting from {Jake, Maestro} scum and {Aristo} SK
Why do you assume that the second death is due to a SK, and why do you posit that SK to be Aristo?
In post 671, SnarkySnowman wrote:Also I'd like an actual claim if possible, and also a weigh-in from anyone who is not Wisdom, Jake, Maestro
Why do you want a claim at L-4? I know it's low-hanging fruit, but how am I to see this as anything other than role-fishing?
good points that I agree with against snarky. Especially the sk thing which struck me as tmi.
In post 731, Shiro wrote:How can you be null on the most active person in the game ?
It's not clear to me how he's actually formulating his reads. If there isn't any indication of how his reads come into being (as indicated by explanations of why someone's town/scum), then it is difficult to gage such things as whether he is operating from an uninformed or informed perspective, and whether his reads are developing in a natural, townie way (as opposed to being created secondarily for some scum purpose).
Despite this, I'm not scumreading him because his reads have been progressing and I get the feeling that he is trying to figure the game out.
If you have any suggestions as to how to build up this read, I'd love to hear it.
About this, I think scum is more likely to have popular reads actually.
As for your first quote, I have already discussed how farmer was awfully forcing a scumread on KTS there. That's not a "townie depth of thought", that's a "I will ignore all possible town motivations for no reason at all and settle on the unlikely scum motivation".
In post 1202, nnn_thekushmountains wrote:good points that I agree with against snarky. Especially the sk thing which struck me as tmi.
Come on, you agree that scum try to get a claim at L-4?
scum wants a claim like that more than anything. It's better than a mislynch.
In post 1205, Wisdom wrote:And even the SK thing, why do you think that it's scum who thinks SK?
Both those things are more "weird" than "scummy" if you think about it.
If town thinks someone isn't town, they think that person is scum.
If scum thinks someone isn't town, they think that person is SK.
And that's why scum are more likely to bring up and accuse sk than town is.
Sure, scum want claims, but since when they try to get them at L-4? Or when do they openly ask for them for that matter? It's ridiculous to argue Snarky is scum for that.
Yes, SK hunting can be indicative of scum, but in a different context. You're saying it yourself, we're talking about a case where people don't think someone is town (usually that happens in open games where it's known there's an SK). Here that wasn't the case, there is a kill, and it's argued whether it's coming from town or an SK. It's different.
My understanding on the SK thing is that Snarky took the "nice shot, vig" from Aristophanes as a likely SK claim (with Aristophanes essentially praising himself and setting up his vig claim)
In post 1199, Masquerade wrote:Gonna read up properly when I get back home but rn jake I'd rather have wisdom in lylo over you. Try harder. I mean wisdom confuses me sometimes but generally I am able tofollow him.
try harder? I am already trying at max capacity ffs
Robbed of a scummy for what had to be the best unvote in mafiascum history.
In post 1209, Wisdom wrote:My understanding on the SK thing is that Snarky took the "nice shot, vig" from Aristophanes as a likely SK claim (with Aristophanes essentially praising himself and setting up his vig claim)
This is accurate.
I don't see how me "thinking aristo is not town" (and therefore SK) makes me scum. See above. It doesn't take a genius to see that a kill on mafia in a normal game probably came from - you guessed it - not mafia.
1) Fact: Nobody said aristo must be SK.
2) Fact: Deirfire (mafia) was killed Night 1.
3) Implication of (2) is that it was an SK, as it seems unlikely that would have been a town vig making that shot on Night 1.
4) It could also have been a vig. We don't know, but I said I was suspecting SK over vig.
5) Aristo
I was basing that off wisdom's post to which you replied that it was accurate...
So your fact 1 while may be accurate, it was certainly implied that was where you were thinking and not really considering all the possibilities.
Never denied fact 2 but that really doesn't prove if we have a sk or a vig, it confirms that we have at least 1
It's not unlikely town vig would shoot n1, it's very likely actually asked on my experiences with a vig on this site
Yes we don't know what we have. Suspecting SK over vig with no actual info is narrow minded if you are town
5. Yes aristo could be SK, he could be a vig, he could be town, or he could be Mafia. Nothing about that comment gives you insight into what he is so assuming he could be the SK because of one statement is stupid.
Robbed of a scummy for what had to be the best unvote in mafiascum history.
In post 609, SnarkySnowman wrote:Can we drop this and agree Wisdom is town? I definitely follow his line of thinking here and I think it's distracting from {Jake, Maestro} scum and {Aristo} SK
Quote fail.
Robbed of a scummy for what had to be the best unvote in mafiascum history.
See in my experience though limited, when somebody compliments anyone for a Mafia NK or from a no ki in general, they are usually Mafia but even I don't let that cloud my judgement. I keep an open mind because that statement isn't enough to tell anyone anything. You jumping to SK indicates a close mindset which no towmie should have or it means they are Mafia trying to discredit somebody and set them up for a lynch later.
If you are town what you did is bad. If you are scum, it doesn't help your cause either.
Robbed of a scummy for what had to be the best unvote in mafiascum history.
In post 1210, Masquerade wrote:Ok so part of us agree on Snarky and part of us agree on farmer now.
Lets all agree on Maestro?
VOTE: Maestro
2 people voting farmer
At least double that is voting snarky
Why is a maestro wagon a good wagon? What will his flip tell us? He doesn't give reads so how can we learn anything if he flips scum besides the obvious yay we lynched scum. What if he's town and he's playing like this for some unknown reason?
I don't see how a maestro lynch helps town, a snarky lynch helps town more. 1. Cause he's scum and 2. We can narrow down his partner easier based a good through re-read and interactions.
Robbed of a scummy for what had to be the best unvote in mafiascum history.