Mini 1773 : Symphonic Metal Mafia (Game Over?!)

[Jeanne11]

No. Not until you say 'farmer could be town' in this thread.

[Wisdom]

Everyone, including farmer, could be town.

Okay?

[Jeanne11]

Okay. I will check your case on him, though I am sure most of it relies on assuming you know everything.

[Wisdom]

I never assumed that. Get rid of your bias.

[SnarkySnowman]

When did you stop scumreading Jeanne, Wisdom?

I'd be willing to go for that lynch, just on account of how there's almost no content in that ISO other than claiming VT out of the gate and saying you have a large e-peen.

[SnarkySnowman]

Sure, if someone hammers town, I'll be all over them, but I'd also think about other possibilities.

So why haven't you mentioned Maestro

AT ALL

? He hammered town.

And Shiro, I guess he's allowed to tunnel to his heart's content, yet I am not allowed to tunnel him even if I think he's scum? What's wrong with you two?

You've done nothing except say things along the lines of "he doesn't consider that they could be town" when he's shown pretty clear evidence that he has. You haven't tunneled him thinking he's scum. You've tunneled him because of a personal thing.

@Wisdom Like, you expect me to know your reasoning instantly and follow you without questions.

His reasoning is out there. Not so much early, but I follow his logic. If you don't, ask a question other than "what if they're town?", because that's circular and leads to flaming and other things unnecessary for a game.

Wisdom, why so pissed at me? Like, do you think you would admit to being scum? No, so others have to catch you themselves. So why so pissed at me for not believing you, omg?

My guess? He's pissed because only 6 of your 95 posts haven't been attacking that one facet of his play. Literally, attacking the fact that "he doesn't consider them to have any chance of being town" despite the fact that he's demonstrated he has, since he's changed scumreads a fair bit.

Jeanne, it reads to me like you think he's scum for his playstyle, and no so much for his motivation or anything. You're not giving a scum case he can respond to, so it boils down to "I think wisdom is scum because he's arrogant!" And in turn you get that.

My take on it anyway.

So he doesn't have to make cases and yet I have to?! Yeah, no. If I have to make cases, so does he. Or does he get a special treatment that the rest of us aren't allowed to have?

Again, I reiterate, he's made some reasoning for his wagons and I follow said reasoning. I don't follow yours at all and you're not really helping at all.

And lynching a town is playing against your win condition. I don't care about your flimsy excuses and your re-evaluating. You said I am free to scumread you tomorrow if you're wrong, which is exactly what I will do and you will not fight it. >.>

Please, by all means, feel free to scumread everyone who was wrong about KTS - 5 of whom are still alive right now, and none of whom are Wisdom.

Also,

by saying lynching town is against his wincon, you are saying he is town

.

I was always lynched when I played like you. Why should you be an exception? To me it seems you are desperate for mislynch.

Reading your iso, it seems like

you

are desperate for a mislynch.

THAT'S IT, I QUIT. YOU GUYS CAN MISLYNCH AND SWEET-TALK YOUR WAY OUT OF IT AFTERWARDS. >.>

Please replace out.


Long story short, this ISO is full of nothing. The only thing I get is a scumread on Wisdom, even though she says he's town at one point, implicitly.

I can't say I scumread this entirely, but I would really, really like Jeanne to replace out or start playing mafia.

[Masquerade]

Jeanne. You need to explain how you know Wisdom is town.

[Masquerade]

And why you still keep pushing him.

[Wisdom]

No Snarky. Jeanne is town. She behaved in the exact same way towards ika and Silverwolf in ASOIAF.

[Jeanne11]

and I don't buy that Jake's post was actually scummy enough to warrant such a shift.

So basically, because you can't see Jake is scum, whoever does see it is scum.

And yet you're expecting people to see farmer as scum just because you do.

According to him. Not according to everyone.

Same thing. Just because farmer is scum to you doesn't mean that he is to everyone.

I don't care about Dier, Jake is still scum. You had your mislynch, now we're lynching Jake.

Oh, yeah, let's push another potential mislynch

And what are you talking about? Did someone I scumread flip town?

Not yet, but they might.

Have they flipped, Jeanne? Has anyone I've scumread flip town?

Read above

He wasn't obvTown?

Like, no. It's inexcusable to say this. If he were obvTown I couldn't've hammered him because he wouldn't've been at fucking L-1, Wisdom.

He was at L-1 because people didn't like his attitude.

I disagree with this.

It's a fact.

It's a fact because I say so, hooray for omnipotent me!

Who the fuck cares about convincing anyone? Snarky sees scum Maestro and votes scum Maestro. You keep impeding progress because you disagree with how townies choose to play.

I am not wrong, sorry, you're dying.

I never claimed to be infallible

Yeah, because I'm the only player in this game and my word is law.

Why are you not trying to get your scumreads lynched?

Yeah, you obviously think your word is law and snap at anyone who refuses to see what you see.

I've decided. It's farmer/Jake.

Jeanne you're still doing the thing where you think the only things in my mind are the things that are in my posts

What else would I think? I can't read your mind, you know

Whatever it is you're describing, it's silly.

Discrediting

Jeanne, I don't give a damn about your situations. I've tried making you see the light. You don't want to. Keep voting me. I don't care.

More discrediting

I never said I'm perfect or infallible, you're just incapable of understanding how I play even though I unnecessarily explained it to you.

You say you aren't, yet you demand people sheep you cos your opinion is the only right one

And I'll repeat once more that nobody I'm scumreading has flipped town so your point continues being awful

No, I never said I was never wrong in my reads, I said what I just said, that nobody I am scumreading in this game has flipped town like you're claiming. I, like every other player, am sometimes right and sometimes wrong.

Yeah, and you're always right so not doing as you say is a sin

For the last time.

I am nowhere saying that I am some infallible god of scumhunting that is never wrong. In ASOIAF I was not just wrong about massive, I was also wrong about Radja, Drixx and ABR. In every game there will be at least one townie I will wrongly scumread. It's normal. Hell, in my wiki I say that most of the time my tunneling is on town.

So no. You have misunderstood if you think that what I am saying is that I am always right. I am not always right. What I keep telling you is that your argument does not make sense. You are arguing that when X is scumreading Y, Y flips town, and X continues being arrogant like nothing happened, then X is likely scum. Which is a good point, not always of course as there ARE such arrogant townies, but it's a valid point. However, I keep telling you that I can't be likened to X in this theory, because none of my scumreads THIS GAME have flipped town. If either Jake or farmer flipped town and I continued insisting that everyone should follow me, then you would be able to make this point, but not now.

Do you get it now? If not, too bad, because this is the last time I am trying. I am trying to have extra and extra patience with you but I can only have so much patience.

So when farmer flips town I'm allowed to scumread you without you throwing a fuss?

I asked you multiple times what will you do if they flip town. You never gave a straight answer and think I am annoying for even suggesting that they could flip town.

Yes, because it serves no purpose to ask me what I will do if they flip town. Regardless of my alignment, there is only one correct answer to this, which is "I will reread and reevaluate". You gain nothing by asking me this.

The right answer is to not lynch them without re-evaluating. You re-evaluate before the lynch, not after.

Nope, players are judged by their motivation for doing things. Playstyle is playstyle.

Sorry, we'll lynch farmer next

and that'll end the game

You say you're not always right, yet you insist you actually are here

because FA gave you a scum role PM

That's ridiculous. We won't lynch town because of apathy.

c
This is what you're trying to do from my point of view. The fact that you're jumping from scumread to scumread like a frog further makes me think you're trying to jump at everyone who looks scummy and justify yourself with that after they flip town.

See, Masquerade? Good luck playing this game with people like the above posting. I am now supposed to treat this one-dimensional bullheadness as town.

Pot, meet kettle

Normal games are a great place to find who you shouldn't play with. A great lesson.

Yes and most people have come to the conclusion you are a cancer and should be avoided at all cost.

Go hide under your hole. I am the only one actually trying in this game.

You insult people who dare to question your perfect reads.

I disagree with you. I don't need to do anything more than I have already done. I've found 2 scum and I'm trying to get them lynched. I provide reasons for my scum reads and I keep pressure on them.

I'm #winning

That's not how you play town. You reevaluate. You consider the possibility you're wrong. You consider how others are reacting towards your scumreads. You don't just ignore the game and lurk until your scumreads are dead.

Says this now, but isn't trying to reevaluate at all

This is the guy you're allowing to live. A guy arguing that Snarky's "I want Maestro to claim" somehow holds scum motivation.

Half the players on mafiascum say otherwise based on games I've completed

Like, you have to be completely dumb and shallow (and unfortunately there are at least two such townies in here) in order to look at that and say "okay yes, scum benefit from claims, so that held scum motivation"

read above

Fuck this town. I'll lurk until you either lynch farmer or mislynch whoever

Oh, that's rich. Pure gold. You're lurking until your scumread is dead despite saying that town shouldn't do so earlier. I found me a scum, people.

@Wisdom Yeah, right, and when he flips town you will come up with bs excuses as to why you lynched him. If you are scum, you'd sweet-talk your way out and I am not gonna let you.

You have said that for my push on Maestro, my push on Jake, my push on Snarky.

Is nobody scum in this game?

No, you're scum. I've explained why in this post.

There is nothing "proven", Jake, there lies your mistake. Even if someone posted "I am scum" it wouldn't be proof they are scum. There is no proof in mafia besides results from roles.

I already explained the town motivation I see from Snarky. You pressured him about his farmer read. He had forgotten why he had the town read in D1. So he simply said what he assumed probably happened, that he sheeped a townread. That looks like it wasn't the case, but oh well; it isn't a lie with the intent to look town, it's a lie that comes from not remembering.

You don't go so deeply though, you just look at the lie and say "This is a lie, scum lie, Snarky is scum, period." It isn't that simple.

so you are saying that a town aligned player who didn't remember something would make up stuff instead of just admitting he didn't remember?

yes

Once again, things are not absolute. Town can even claim scum and still be town.

Town are people, not machines. There are no preset behaviors you can use to define town. Town will lie, will fakeclaim guilties for no reason other than stubbornness, will claim scum for no reason other than personal amusement, will behave in abnormal and weird ways affected by paranoia and lack of knowledge, and will generally RARELY act the way you believe is the optimal way they should be behaving.

The answer to such behaviors is not "you're not playing like I expect town to, so I will lynch you and if you are town I will report you for not playing like town".

The answer is to widen your expectations and go deeper to understand the motivations behind such behaviors.

Says people shouldn't be one-dimensional. Is one-dimensional himself. Okay then....

I am doing it, and I have deemed he is scum.

I also did it with Jake, Maestro and Snarky, and I deemed I wasn't sure they were scum. Hence why I am not pushing them anymore. But you're still failing to give that to me.

Go on, have your mislynch. Let's see how you'll defend yourself for this when farmer has flipped scum.

I never assumed that. Get rid of your bias.

Get rid of yours first.

[Shiro]

[Wisdom]

lol

[Jeanne11]

See? This is why you are scum. I gave you my reasoning and you laugh at me. I am fucking done.

[Wisdom]

nah I laughed at Shiro's gif. It's a pretty accurate depiction of the situation.

[Jeanne11]

I am going to go and punch some yankies and have some fun with Kagami and forget about you two forever.

[Wisdom]

As for your "reasoning", you're still biased and it looks like there's no hope for you, so yeah

[Wisdom]

I am going to go and punch some yankies and have some fun with Kagami and forget about you two forever.

That's great, but please replace out while you do that.

[Jeanne11]

You can't even address my responses properly? And you expect people to listen to you?

[Jeanne11]

Well, you are biased against farmer. So there. >.>

[Wisdom]

Address what, Jeanne? A wall of harassment where you quote all my posts and assume I think I am infallible while I have proven to you that's false?

[Jeanne11]

No, I won't replace out because of your demand. Me replacing out would cause problems to the mod, who happens to be my best friend.

No, address the last point where you said 'oh, town shouldn't lurk until their scumreads die' and then you are all like 'oh, I am gonna lurk until my scumread dies', thus doing what YOU SAID TOWN SHOULD NOT DO.

And I am biased? You can't even follow what YOU YOURSELF said town should NOT do.

......

[Wisdom]

Do you see me lurking? That was just a burst of anger.

[Jeanne11]

for the record, I can listen to people when they aren't biased.

[Wisdom]

I'm not biased, Jeanne; I have tried talking to you even though I know it's for naught more than anyone else would. Just that is enough to show that I don't liken you to a wall and I still believe there's hope. If that isn't a show of non-bias I don't know what is.

[Jeanne11]

*sigh* If you cannot beat them, join them.

VOTE: farmer

However, if farmer somehow flips town, I promise you I will kick you out of all games I play and mod. I am fed up with this blind playstyle.