Mini 1782 Game Over

[Dierfire]

Vote Count - Day 1 VC #7

RC (1) - Kein
Mhsmith (1) - Nos
Kein (0) -
Froot (0) -
FA (1) - Jake
Jake (2) - Froot, Maverick
Maverick (0) -
Shaddow (1) - Plain
Nos (3) - Lowell, FA, RC
Plain (1) - Shaddow
Lowell (0) -
Clumsy (1) - Rosh
Rosh (0) -
No Lynch (0) -
Not Voting (2) - Clumsy, Mhsmith

Deadline

Dawn will end on April 18, 2016 5:30 PM EST or in (expired on 2016-04-18 17:30:00).

Lynch Threshold

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Mod Notes

Kain Tepes has been prodded.

[RadiantCowbells]

FA, I could see Jake scum but don't want to lynch him today.

Who is your biggest scumread besides him? Make a case for me please!

[Frozen Angel]

Case by Case Analyses

Clumsy

I don't think so? That whole exchange was just weird and I don't know what to get from it.

@APF: Absolutly. Also, RC is obv scum for reasons too secret for me to publicly explain.

how the fuck can someone be obviously scum in a way too secret to be explained.

I meant to address this earlier too. If you do have some magic way of knowing that, you'll have to tell us this "secret" reason or you won't be getting those votes.

well clumsy early posts - which are all his posts are about the most mentioned topics and he basically didn't made anything out of them.

-_- If you would care to look at my game history, I only have 2 completed games here. Both of them Newbie games. 9 players, 2 scum. Haven't been in a 12 person game. I thought there would be 3 scum, but I wanted to make sure so I didn't have any errors in logic. The fact that you think it's a ham handed fake townslip is one of the more egotistical things I've seen in a while. Which is saying something.

this is a very alarming answer to the point lowell made (about his "how many scum are usually in a mini normal") but satisfiable. I basically don't get these kinds of posts alignment indicative.

What caused the tone shift here Roshar? You went from patient to aggressive. When I said that, I meant that I would read things and also read specifically what happened with you guys.

This is a very quiet interesting point about roshar which I missed in my reread as well.

currently half town reading Clumsy but asking him to elaborate his reads on shadow

[Frozen Angel]

FA, I could see Jake scum but don't want to lynch him today.

Who is your biggest scumread besides him? Make a case for me please!

I'm catched up / read the game during past 2 days but I wasn't deeply paying attention.

I'm sorting my head and clearing up my reads.

[RadiantCowbells]

No rush. I'd also prefer not Nosferatu because I'm not really scumreading him/her.

[Froot Loop]

1) Jake said the people pressuring mhsmith were pressuring him so that he'd remove his vote (but Jake didn't say this. He was saying that mhsmith got pressured in general, so then removed his vote in hopes that it would reduce the heat on him).

Just seen this explanation of the lying about pressure. I'm guessing that's what's being talked about.

I like FA's read list. Maybe I'm getting distracted by the pretty pictures, but it's good to see something in thread and about some people who haven't been posting as much as well.

I'm reading up on Nos' posts and the votes against him just now. Jake's still my strongest scum read.

[Frozen Angel]

Case by Case Analyses

Maverick

best mave post during whole game was his post 150

What I don't like about Roshar's thoughts on Policy lynches isn't that she disagrees with them, (I disagree with the concept of Policy lynches anyway) but that she wouldn't policy lynch straight away, she'd save them for D2 'in case we have no leads'. It looks like trying to to the nice thing, but comes across as 'we're saving that lynch for later' which simply appears scum-motivated to me. This brings us to her #32 in which she kind of dispels the above, but doesn't really close the case. Lynching an 'unreadable' player D2 in any case is quite likely either scum-motivated or bad play. How you can suggest that you won't have stronger reads than 'unreadable' D2 doesn't sit well with me, and the whole debacle seemed to ignore the posts so far from APF and RC especially. I'm not getting a massively strong read from this in pre-game since it seems more of a theoretical debate than a serious push on a PL D2 due to the lack of game-specific context throughout, but not only does it appear to me as scum-motivated, I also totally wanted to wade in and give my 2 pennies on Policy Lynches. (They're bad.)

This was basically whatever I felt , mentioned and hated about Roshar pregame. which I liked to see how he putted them in to words in his catchup post.

I'm not going to read meta because A) It's easy as hell to change your own meta, and B) you've just asked me to check your meta. What makes you town or scum in another game doesn't apply to this game, and you can play against your meta in different alignments in different games. What an awful post.

FOS: RC

too now.

His push on RC seems pretty genuine. the way he is asking questions about RC behavior is what I like about his posts. then he tried to evaluate that read and backed his push off after RC short explanation.

Plus his later questioning in pregame is pretty good.

I like both the Nos and the JSF Wagons. I quite liked Froot Loops' reminder that 'Too scummy to be scum' isn't a thing, so I reread Jake in ISO. Despite a fair amount of posts in both pregame and D1, there is still very little to work with and if I'm honest, it seems like he's making it difficult to read him.

Would town do this? Probably not.

Jake appears to hunt for towncred, it just comes across as tone in some posts but in posts such as his #521, where he appears to overstate his usefulness to the town for brownie points:

I've already done more in this game than most of the other players because I have 2 scum reads and have voted both of them.

He also seems to be tunnelling on what is, to me at least, a quite weak argument, which seems like it led on from a serious push on a policy lynch (lynching a player because you know what they play like in other games pretty much amounts to policy lynching, imo.) that it seems clear he intended to push from pregame. I can't actually see why JSF is voting for mhsmith other than he dislikes readslists and they've butted heads a little bit. It's weak as hell and very tunnelly. A lot of what he makes is just noise and rather than trying to convince everybody else that his target is scum, he seems happy to merely go back-and-forth with mhsmith.

UNVOTE: Clumsy
VOTE: Jake from State Farm

the way he tries to explain his reads are fine but I get paranoid about the amount of explanation in everything. This is something differ from people to people so I'm not sure what is that telling about mav.

His later push on Jake got better each post. jake responses make me feel go both ways about him (looking at him as a bad town / or a scum trying to appeal to emotions fake towning) so I can understand his pressure.

feel town about mave

[Jake from State Farm]

Fruit. You voted me cause you said it looked like I'm not scum hunting but that's obviously not true so why else are you scum reading me

[Jake from State Farm]

@FA. I'm not bad anything. Thank you

[Froot Loop]

RC, you're voting for Nos.

This is another of the votes on Nos:

Jake is town, farmer is town. I'm back up to 'meh' on smith.

VOTE: nos

I like this idea. Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice... something something... you DONT GET FOOLED AGAIN.

tbh, FA's is the most reasonable, whether or not it's going to stand after his run through, it looks like he's calling Nos out for changing his read a bit baselessly.

[Frozen Angel]

Maybe I'm getting distracted by the pretty pictures

[Frozen Angel]

@FA. I'm not bad anything. Thank you

Well then whats up with all your logical fallacies and hypocritical posts?

[Jake from State Farm]

Idk anything about logical fallacies and I already explained I'm not being hypocritical. I do know that scum is more likely to discredit people by falsely accusing them of logical fallacies.

What I've done is stay true to myself and call out things as I see them. If you want to twist my actions into something they actually aren't that's on you.

[Froot Loop]

I was calling you he. Sorry FA.

[Frozen Angel]

Case by Case Analyses

a plain Farmer

can we policy lynch kaintepes?

Well, clearly we CAN, the question is whether we SHOULD. Or whether it'd just be fun to do for the lulz I guess

Thanks, coach.

pre-vote smith

Come, sheeple.

Good idea.

pre-vote mhsmith0

Let's get him all the way up to L+5.

I see this as RVS unlike Roshar

When I first read it, I thought RC was saying that FA had slipped by wondering if RC was one of her buddies. This would've been a fake town-slip because the underlying assumption would have been that the scum PT had probably already been created. But no, on further reflection I see what RC was saying and don't think it's a town-slip, fake or not.

This is a genuine way of thinking about that. I can see him seeing this that way. But its an easy to fake pov so I consider it null

Your pre-vote against Roshar seems to have some substance, but that was a Page 2 vote.

Lowell's vote in 126 makes absolutely no sense to me, as I'm not sure where Roshar is not "holding it together". Does this make Lowell scummy to me? No, because he may have reasons that I just don't understand.

RC wants to pressure him in 189. That's not reason in and of itself, I want to know why RC wants to pressure him. I also don't see where Roshar calls RC scum like he accuses.

Any reason you didn't question Maverick on 163 when he does the same thing I did here, and never got any responses?

It seems lazy to me (but not "super chainsawy" as RC had asked). Lowell's vote was an admitted gutread, RC had given reasons for scumreading Roshar in 176, and, as FA pointed out, this doesn't address Maverick's 150.

I can think of both town-motivated (well, not town-motivated, but rather town-compatible) and scum-motivated reasons for it having been thrown together like this. Town-wise, shad was being pushed on this position and sometimes people will try and put up a face-saving defense even if the position is weak. Scum-wise, it could still be seen as something like that, but also as a bit of cover for something he might've been worried would suggest an informed perspective.

Mhsmith's posts since the day has began have been OK. I'm not a huge fan of his vote on Jake or even his withdrawal of it, but my first instinct is to say that his line of thinking has been coming from a town perspective. Are his prior transgressions still enough to warrant my first real vote? mmmmmm......no. No they're not.

VOTE: shaddowez

I'm also sympathetic to the Clumsy wagon.

I like the way he represented what everyone said about shadowz and pointed out his opinion about him. although I don't like the way he is following his null(town lean?) on Mh with shadowz vote. it implies that they are related.

from his post 499 forward (I'm looking in his ISO though) he started explaining his reads in a detailed way which I like.

his points and questions are justified

townlean on APF

@RC why you were (are?) scumreading APF early game (even now?) so hard ?

[Frozen Angel]

I was calling you he. Sorry FA.

np I'm not English so I fuck them up sometimes as well

[Frozen Angel]

Idk anything about logical fallacies and I already explained I'm not being hypocritical. I do know that scum is more likely to discredit people by falsely accusing them of logical fallacies.

What I've done is stay true to myself and call out things as I see them. If you want to twist my actions into something they actually aren't that's on you.

Calling all the accusations on you falcy is not a very good way to respond them

[Jake from State Farm]

A False dilemma pushing ?

There are some logical fallacies you need to consider as well

Your questions are basically all loaded questions. Your saying your voting me becuase you think someone else is town which is a sick logical fallacy. Your hard tunneling RC. Your pregame refusal to play was Relativist Fallacy.

I will go case by case later.

Let's disect this post shall we?

1. The questions asking you to explain your reasoning aren't loaded questions. They were an attempt to get to understand your logic and motives. Only somebody who's got something to hide imo would think they were loaded questions. If you answer them truthfully (which I don't feel you have) you have nothing to worry about.

You have ignored your 2 pregame scum reads. You said pregame was important. Instead of focusing on those people you attack nos for making a mountain out of a molehill? That literally makes no sense. It certainly isn't protown imo.

2. I'm not voting you cause I think somebody else is town. That's just outright untrue. I'm voting you because I think you are likely scum because your actions don't look like they come from a town mindset. I did change my vote because I'm unsure of mhsmith, but I don't think he's town. Not yet anyway. So this fallacy accusation is just plain bulllshit.

3. I wasn't hard tunneling RC and haven't hard tunneled RC. You want to see hard tunneling from me I can show you examples. This isn't close to hard tunneling

4. My pregame refusal to play isn't any sort of fallacy. Now you are really grasping at straws. My refusal to play has nothing to do with anything. Nobody was obligated to do anything but make 1 post. The game doesn't start until it starts so people just wasted their time talking.

Now you want to talk about someone being a hypocrite? I'd say that's you.


You said pregame was important yet you ignore your pregame reads. THAT darling, is an accurate example of being a hypocrite. If pregame was important to you, you would have started the game pressuring the scum reads you had.

So as my favorite wrestler used to say

Take those logical fallacy accusations. Shine em up REAL NICE. turn them sumbitches sideways and shove them up your roody poo candy ass.

IF YOU SMELLLLLLLLLLL WHAT JAKE FROM STATE FARM

IS

COOKIN

:drops mic:

[Frozen Angel]

I will answer that after I posted your case which I will do that last thing tonight

[Jake from State Farm]

Idk anything about logical fallacies and I already explained I'm not being hypocritical. I do know that scum is more likely to discredit people by falsely accusing them of logical fallacies.

What I've done is stay true to myself and call out things as I see them. If you want to twist my actions into something they actually aren't that's on you.

Calling all the accusations on you falcy is not a very good way to respond them

There's your response scum.

And if you don't like it. I've got 2 words for you.

[Jake from State Farm]

I will answer that after I posted your case which I will do that last thing tonight

I don't need you to respond
I don't even want you to respond
Cause I don't care about your response.

Your response will only be for the sake of making yourself look better to others. Remember how I said you haven't seen my tunnel mode yet?

We'll be prepared cause tunnel mode is in full effect. My vote is staying on you until you die or I do. Everything you say can and will be used against you in the the court of Jake.

[Frozen Angel]

Case by Case Analyses

Nosferato

I mean it basically just means we get a longer D1 tbh

Can we stop playing this game of who knows RC the best?

all of her content pregame

cause there's only been one post since the game started.

VOTE: mhsmith

RVS at the day start. Nothing in pregame was there to made you make a better and justified vote instead of just pushing back to RVS ?

Didn't know that was an ordered readlist, but w/e, it was to you, just not on the topic of me. I was talking about jake, who did the exact thing he said he was going to do once the game started.

There's a bit of a disconnect here. I wasn't asking for a wall, I was asking for content and commenting on the disturbingly high number of posts without content. Content doens't need to be a wall, it can be short, it can be as simple as a relevant question.

I was exaggerating when I said wall. I just found it odd that you would vote someone because they didn't leap out of the gate with scumhunting, when they clearly previously stated that they didn't find the pre-game to have proper reactions. It just seems like gunning for easy pickings to me.

This is basically your first content in game about something happened way earlier in pregame. if it was important why you didn't talk about it back then?

believe me, it's better kain doesn't post.

1 sentence length posts without making anything out of them.

the tone of your post is completely static and there's no reason it could be interpreted as sarcasm. This is why we have and Kappa and :^) and other such emoticons to denote sarcasm properly.

Then your interaction starts with mhs about his sarcasm which contains the most content included part of your ISO

To make this as clear as possible, when I went to put down a vote once the game started, I remembered that you pinged me before with the sarcasm, but I know now that you genuinely believe you were being obviously sarcastic.

I can see how this doesn't make sense to you.

trying to justify your vote and get away with it after there is nothing else to discus. Its clearly obvious : its a simple yes or no . Do you believe he was sarcastic or not? and another simple yes or no : is that alignement indicative?

if yes on both why you didn't mention that before?

Pressure started on Nos and suddenly

VOTE: Nosferato

you're done with jake so that includes the vote as well or you've got something new on me?

pedit: well that answers that

Where's your Shadow read Nos?

I just read through his ISO. I like him, he's town.

you were playing the game . you were posting stuff in here when he was posting. You basically ignored all the posts of him/against him and now out of nowhere you need to read his ISO and you like it ...

Well yeah, that's kinda what I just said. I basically ignored his posts, and now that I've read them, I think he's town. I ignore things I'm not interested in.

pedit2: I wasn't interested in him

Why you wasn't intrested in aplayer of the game? thats not a town mindset obviously.

I am making an effort, I just haven't hit my scumhunting groove

I hit it midway through D1 in NY192

I hit it at the start of D1 in LI1757

hit it like D5 in NY188

it'll come

and you'll know

call it so it reach here as fast as possible

scum reading Nos

[Frozen Angel]

I will answer that after I posted your case which I will do that last thing tonight

I don't need you to respond
I don't even want you to respond
Cause I don't care about your response.

Your response will only be for the sake of making yourself look better to others. Remember how I said you haven't seen my tunnel mode yet?

We'll be prepared cause tunnel mode is in full effect. My vote is staying on you until you die or I do. Everything you say can and will be used against you in the the court of Jake.

The court of jake is a shity court. Its unjustified and weak and it showed its inability to make a right judgement. As I'm declaring , From the Ghastly Eyrie I can see to the ends of the world, and from this vantage point I declare with utter certainty that I will flip town

[Jake from State Farm]

Doubtful you flip town.

I just read your roshar posts and you ended it with null (leaning scummy) but he was a scum read pregame. I see nothing in your posts that really explain why you lowered your read on him. I also don't see anything that explains why you chose to ignore him once the game started. Is he your scum buddy?

[Frozen Angel]

Doubtful you flip town.

I just read your roshar posts and you ended it with null (leaning scummy) but he was a scum read pregame. I see nothing in your posts that really explain why you lowered your read on him. I also don't see anything that explains why you chose to ignore him once the game started. Is he your scum buddy?

The burden of proof is on the accuser.

Then its our argument about play styles and personality and omgus credibility as scum tells which make me rethink about your age comment mentioned before uprised my read on you from a scum read to a null one.