The Third Fortnight (Game Over [Bonus Round])

[zMuffinMan]

Hi everybody.

I'm

Dr. Nick

zMuffinMan and I am your IC in this game. What does IC stand for? Why,

Inexperience-Challenged

Innocent Child, of course. That means I'm confirmed town, and any votes for me make you a Trump-supporter. But, really, I'm basically confirmed town because there's like... no way I roll scum before the reroll and after it... right? (#GamblersAxiom)

If you have any questions about game mechanics, mafia theory or anything else, I, as your IC, will tell you to bugger off and pester someone else.

Here are some useful links for those of you who are new to the game:

• Youtube - a useful link for viewing videos and having lengthy philosophical discussions in the comment section of a video about cats
  
• Google - a useful link for searching for videos of cats
  
• Sanrio - for all your Hello Kitty needs

These links don't have much to do with the game of mafia but I find them useful nonetheless.

Good luck and have fun!

Vote: Cupcake

[zMuffinMan]

he rolled scum again

i wish

i had glorious plans to troll for 14 days straight and then leave the game (even though marquis wanted to flee, i had even more glorious plans to change our flee at the very last minute with a grand "HAHA" post of some sort)

fyi, that would

still

be my plan if i were scum because i know someone like cupcake would vote me after d1 ended, just because... like, really, no wifom, if i were scum, i'd be fleeing this game, fuck my partner's wishes

[zMuffinMan]

also im technically voting cupcake for omgusing me

even though his post/vote came first, he knew i was going to vote him in my first post, so it still counts

[zMuffinMan]

cupcake seems pretty town

[zMuffinMan]

Go on

... ok then...

"... but muffins are superior."

[zMuffinMan]

muffinman

can you be the hero this game deserves and tell everyone who my other scumread is?

my lunch break is over

i will probably read the game instead of skimming over the boring-looking players when i get home

[zMuffinMan]

i lol


i am curious on why you voted bulge tho. is it because you knew the secret? I did too but i didn't want to tell him and then he'd feel silly

I know the secret. what do you think I was trying to accomplish with that post?

what do you think you were trying to accomplish with that post?

[zMuffinMan]

Actually if we could be serious for a moment, let's get a few real votes on Kuroi.

y ?

[zMuffinMan]

i don't actually mind the bulge wagon but i will sit here not voting for now

[zMuffinMan]

Guess what everyone I really do think tBonone is scum

y ?

[zMuffinMan]

i don't necessarily disagee with the idea, i just want to know why you think that

also i asked zoraster what the mod error was, and anyone with two brain cells could figure out the scum team before the reroll

[zMuffinMan]

also i dont think it matters a whole lot but i think the scum PT from before the reroll should probably be made public

it's dumb that only i can see what's written in it (i didn't post, just marquis)

i don't imagine it's going to influence the game greatly in one way or another, but it should still be public imo

[zMuffinMan]

But yeah, Bulge is right

One of the scum has a flee. Leaving someone at L-1 will not end well. L-2 is fine, fear L-1 until we come to a final conclusion.

what is your read on bulge.

Kinda questioning

Got wagoned, little to no reaction even when (they thought) they had reached L-1

etc etc

what does this even mean and how does this lead to you voting bulge?

[zMuffinMan]

my other scumread was hiplop in case anyone cared (prob not)

i probably wouldn't have guessed that but you're also right that i didn't care so kudos

[zMuffinMan]

a side note: i don't think the threat of l-1 is that big a deal... yeah scum have a flee but when they have almost no idea where the majority of town is going to vote, that seems somewhat suicidal

[zMuffinMan]

that said, people in general are pretty stupid so i would not be surprised to be proven wrong

[zMuffinMan]

you're interested in all these other things but you gave my hiplop scumread a i-dont-give-a-shit?
were you making fun of me for being salty or bad or what?

i wouldnt have guessed you had a scum read on hiplop because i didnt think he came off looking particularly bad in the early phase

i also am not particularly interested in it

i ask questions about things i want to know answers to - if im not asking you a question, then i either dont care or i don't think any particularly useful information is going to come of any question i ask

[zMuffinMan]

your question to davsto is kind of already answered

no, not really (i didn't read that at the time i made my post, but it doesn't really answer anything)... maybe the "y bulge vote" part but that was more an addendum to what i wanted to know than the core of my question

[zMuffinMan]

ok

now i want you to talk about why ces in particular is scummy here

i don't really think ces has done anything particularly "scummy" per se

but he hasn't said or done anything that looks town

i don't think it's much of a stretch to say he looks the worst among the bulge voters (though i personally think davsto's posts are the worst among the bulge voters)

#answeringquestionsnotdirectedatme

[zMuffinMan]

Vote: T-Bone

[zMuffinMan]

Dang muffy so you buy whatever non reasons whatshisname gave earlier for tbone? Or do you wanna say reasons with your mouth hole?

no, whatshisface didn't write anything convincing, i just don't really like t-bone's play so far

im not going topretend there's some grand case here outside of lack of content and the fact his posts so far have rubbed me the wrong way

[zMuffinMan]

i am also fine with the bulge wagon still being a thing

i think it should still be a thing

[zMuffinMan]

VOTE: zmuffinman

oh dear... looks like ive done it...

realistically speaking, what do you think is going to come of this?

[zMuffinMan]

Muffinman (I'm guessing he was joking about being an innocent child)

yeah maybe.

no, im not the sort of player who jokes around

[zMuffinMan]

also antihero is really scummy for voting an innocent child

[zMuffinMan]

Muffinman (I'm guessing he was joking about being an innocent child)

yeah maybe.

I thought muffin claimed Intolerable Cunt.

i... i didn't claim that publicly so i don't know how you could possibly know that... does scum have a list of town'a roles in this game?

[zMuffinMan]

Antihero
Bins
Cogito Ergo Sum
Davsto
Gorkington
hiplop
JohnnyFarrar
Katsuki
KuroiXHF
Marquis
Quilford
SnarkySnowman
T-Bone
The Bulge
xRECKONERx
zMuffinMan

hey zmuff also you said you didn't really say you had any grand case for voting t-bone just some of his posts rubbed you the wrong way; do you agree with anything of what ces is describing in the part of his #323 i quoted in #332?

i don't think t-bone posted anything "protown", but i do think he was trying to come across as somewhat blase, which is generally a trait that looks townish (imo), while not actually posting anything insightful...

which is a trend that seems to have continued in recent pages from what ive skimmed

[zMuffinMan]

well i don't really know why it quoted your reads list there but since it did, im just gonna comment on how i don't think it's a great reads list... it seems somewhat fabricated but i can't put my finger on exactly why i think this

[zMuffinMan]

um

at what point is it appropriate to send out a search party for a missing person

i am worried because bulge said he would post after he got off work and then never did and i can only assume the worst must have happened

[zMuffinMan]

Kats I really want to have a read on you ): please hope me

Ok well I'm town does that help?

yeah the smiley face was especially helpful

if i weren't an innocent child, i'd call you the most town person in the game right now

[zMuffinMan]

At this rate probably never.

Everyone's playing so weirdly... I've come to realize that this setup is really dumb and incredibly scum-favored...

indeed. i was actually a bit disappointed with the reroll since i think this setup would be incredibly easy to win as scum (i am aware that if everyone were to vote randomly, it is somewhat close to balanced in that everyone has a shit chance of winning, but that will never be the case and i am pretty sure everyone already knows where like 75% of the votes are going if we guess wrong d1 and there's probably 3-4 people that are never getting a vote (outside of maybe a hero vote) despite the fact that they've done nothing that's beyond the realm of fake-able)

i think i would have steam-rolled this game as scum, not because of any sort of brilliant manipulation or clever tactics or anything like that, but because i can put two sentences together and not look like lynchbait and really all scum needs to do is have at least one person look better than the majority of other players and hope they don't get hero voted

[zMuffinMan]

also i dont think traditional scum hunting works in this game unless scum are really bad players and i think the odds of hitting scum with a lynch d1 are (perhaps coincidentally!) the same odds as the least charismatic player in the game rolling scum

really, i don't know if there's anyone who can't fake "scum hunting" for 14 days

maybe if we were in a game where everyone was active and sharing opinions on everything, it'd be harder for scum to hide and/or more likely for them to fuck up somehow, but when has that ever happened in any game ever

[zMuffinMan]

that said, while i dont expect to win, i think 14 days of banter before i probably roll a dice can be fun in and of itself

[zMuffinMan]

it means everyone who is saying "x is doing y and y is scummy" is

probably

doing it wrong

i'm probably submitting a hero vote if we mislynch

if i'm wrong, well, nobody is gonna remember a few months from now

if i'm right, i look like a fucking mafia savant that had everything under control the whole time (which is actually the case, i'm just joking here, i'm really a genius if i'm right, just ignore this post)

but really, i probably have better odds of hitting scum than someone who goes after (one of) the scummiest looking player(s) who didn't flee

because playing like you're playing (not actually pro-town but more town-looking than most of the game) is how scum win this

[zMuffinMan]

i emphasise probably because i am talking in terms of optimal play and there are some players who aren't so great at the game who may have rolled scum and don't actually think about how to play this setup optimally, instead falling into their usual scum habits (lurking, posting non-content, whatever the fuck they do)

[zMuffinMan]

I kinda want you to shut up because these are the exact things that players who are not so great at this game won't realize...like wasn't #545 enough of a hint?

i mean, unless both scum are dumb as fuck, they realised this already. this game has day talk. i don't really care, tbh, im just airing my gripes with this setup. i was gonna have a whine about it last night but decided i don't care enough to, but since you wrote about it on my lunch break, it was a good opportunity to whine and here i am

also i dont think traditional scum hunting works in this game unless scum are really bad players

really? i disagree completely. what do you consider 'traditional scum hunting' to entail?

every single thing that anyone who has made a case on anyone so far in this game has done, really

[zMuffinMan]

you could make 548 and paste it into practically any game on this site just because people in general have fucked up and laughably wrong ideas about what is scummy

except no because in any other game, scum have other things to worry about (roles, potential for multiple factions, their game plan in the long run, etc etc)

this is a single fucking day

all scum have to do is have one player look town enough over a single day that nobody votes them over more likely candidates, and the other look not-scummy enough to not get lynched d1

so playing like you are, i.e. actually not doing anything remotely town but making people think you're town because you put more effort in than other players, is exactly how scum should play this, whereas in another setup, scum may not want to be in the middle of things for one or more reasons

[zMuffinMan]

to me, scumhunting has always meant 'analysing subtleties in a person's play to determine whether they are informed or uninformed, and thus their alignment'

i fail to see how this game spurns scumhunting. the uninformed / informed core mechanic of mafia is still here no?

informed about what? the fact that 1 out of 15 other players is scum?

[zMuffinMan]

go away, antihero

even if i gave a shit about your vote on me, i don't really give a flying fuck about your opinion on what i'm saying right now

[zMuffinMan]

to me, scumhunting has always meant 'analysing subtleties in a person's play to determine whether they are informed or uninformed, and thus their alignment'

i fail to see how this game spurns scumhunting. the uninformed / informed core mechanic of mafia is still here no?

informed about what? the fact that 1 out of 15 other players is scum?

muff :/
none of this is helpful
you're usually at least 10% helpful

if i were trying to be helpful, i'd be helpful

ironically, if i were scum, i'd be trying to be helpful

go figure

or do you think i'm just playing some uber mind game reverse reverse reverse psychology shit where i post like this and either flee or hope no one votes me post-lynch?

*shrug*

i'm just not going to bother anymore

i'll vote who i want to vote and then, when we probably end up mislynching, i'll vote who i want to vote again

and in the mean time, i'll just talk shit to cupcake about how muffins are the superior food

[zMuffinMan]

no i just respect your opinion on what i'm saying like i respect cupcakes opinions on baked goods

[zMuffinMan]

oh ok i missed the optimal town strategy: don't do anything, bitch and moan about the setup, and... continue to do nothing and go LOLZ DICE ROLLZ at the end

this isn't a game where "town strategy" matters

whether or not i win this game is

most likely

not going to have anything to do with you

the way i win this game, if i do, is by poking people to make a better-informed decision after what is probbably a mislynch d1

the way you win this game is by rolling scum because i sincerely doubt with how you're playing right now that you're gonna win any other way

#potshot

[zMuffinMan]

because scum have to fucking flee

the more information they have to share and the more information everyone else has to share means a better chance of getting it right

which is why the way you should be playing the game is going "hey dude what's your opinion on x and why" and having them go "oh hey yeah this is why i think z what about you bro?" and then them going "don't call me bro and also this is why i think a, b and c" and then when we fuck up d1 at least there's something to go on rather than "oh, well, this player actually didn't give a single opinion on like half the game and like half the game didn't give a single opinion on him... great!" but that doesn't work when half the player list is active (and i don't pretend i'm playing optimally right now, either)

[zMuffinMan]

so why aren't you trying to do that, have you decided it's a lost cause? i know you're saying you dont claim to be playing optimally but i'm just wondering why

anyway you seem to have a town read on katsuki, can you explain why that is?

i have been doing that, just not in the last couple pages...

i also don't have some super amazing explanation for why i think cupcake is probably town - i just do and he's not playing like how i figure he would play as scum. there are "subtleties" in the things he writes, as you might put it, outside of the fact that i think he's more likely to approach the game how i would as scum if he rolled scum. i mean, i could probably go over all his posts and write what i like about each of the posts that i like but that is also more effort than i think is necessary so i'm probably not going to do that, even if you were to ask

[zMuffinMan]

which is why the way you should be playing the game is going "hey dude what's your opinion on x and why" and having them go "oh hey yeah this is why i think z what about you bro?" and then them going "don't call me bro and also this is why i think a, b and c" and then when we fuck up d1 at least there's something to go on rather than "oh, well, this player actually didn't give a single opinion on like half the game and like half the game didn't give a single opinion on him... great!" but that doesn't work when half the player list is active (and i don't pretend i'm playing optimally right now, either)

that's what we're doing

what are you being such a pill about?

o yeah, you've been hounding people who aren't bulge with tons of questions about their opinions

like that time you asked um...

no wait, there was that time you asked that other guy...

no... no, maybe there was that time you asked me about...

oh wait, no, no i can't find anything

but i acknowledge your endless barrage of queries about my opinions on things and will take my time considering all the answers you've been asking me to give

[zMuffinMan]

how would katsuki play as scum?

do things he thinks are more likely to make him seem like someone who shouldn't be voted (arguably, i'm less likely to vote him over others with how he's playing right now, but unless his game plan was to play me and hope nobody else finds him worthy of a vote, i'm not really concerned about this at this point in time)

it is possible he is planning to flee so doesn't think he needs to but i am not really going to concern myself with that since it won't matter in the end anyway

and this should give you a good idea of what i like about his posts anyway

[zMuffinMan]

here's me

not asking about anything

oh, yeah, sorry

you did ask a player about something

my bad

proved me wrong with my obvious hyperbole

also, just stop directing posts at me. i'm going to do the same favour for you after this post

to be quite honest, i don't really like how you play mafia so i'd rather not interact with you. thanks

[zMuffinMan]

Muffinman I have a great idea for lynching, but I'll give it a few more days before we go there.

ok

if we're both still alive on d3 i'll sheep you then

[zMuffinMan]

alalalala why can no one seem to get along?

The statement that people nowadays can't seem to get along with anyone with viewpoints that oppose their own appears to be solidly demonstrated in this game...

it's nothing to do with opposing viewpoints... if that were the case, you'd be ostracised by basically anyone whose opinion actually matters for your thoughts on cupcakes v muffins

[zMuffinMan]

dodge. busy. has tbone done anything that seems town yet? i assume no

[zMuffinMan]

good rebuttle

rebuttal*

im contributing

[zMuffinMan]

cupcake are you around? i have a question for you

[zMuffinMan]

is it too late to pre-in for cupcake mafia II?

[zMuffinMan]

im looking forward to pv replacing reck as the slot needed more activity

haha

...

ha

[zMuffinMan]

so I like read to #83 and then I had one of those moments where you like suck in air sharply so I was like agh and I looked in the activity overview and I saw he had like a crapton of posts, so I was like "obviously it must get better" but then it didn't :/

so ive been hoping for an opportunity to use this since i thought of it this morning and im glad one such opportunity came up so soon...

would you say his posts seem... gorkward to you?

thank you, thank you, ill be here all fortnight

[zMuffinMan]

could someone outline the main point/s against hiplop and why they think these points make him scum

[zMuffinMan]

could someone outline the main point/s against hiplop and why they think these points make him scum

Not that Hiplop is even the top 3 on the list of people I would vote, but my biggest beef with him is that he coasts more than anything. He comments and makes the appearance that he does a lot of stuff. If this game was A New Hope, he'd be one of those X-Wings not trying to bomb the exhaust port. He'd just be circling the Death Star a hundred times for the fuck of it.

who is in the top three list of people you would vote?

i also think that the comment about posting a lot without actually saying anything meaningful is true of a lot of players (both in general and in this game). i don't really think hippopotamus (leaving the autocorrect in because it made me giggle like a little kid) is special in that regard so *shrug*

are there people you think have made good efforts to target the exhaust vent?

[zMuffinMan]

inb4 scum team is tbone and marquis and they're spending more time discussing who gets to flee than they are posting in game

[zMuffinMan]

cupcake, there is a thin red line that separates us from gork's town reads... does... does this mean we go to war?

[zMuffinMan]

i can't really help being self-aware though so i don't really expect that to change though

do you think any of the things you're town reading people for are hard to do as scum? do you think it's difficult to seem like you're hunting scum in this setup?

[zMuffinMan]

it wasn't meant to undermine your reads, per se (though i realised it might come across that way before you made that post)... im just wondering why you value the appearance of scum hunting when, really, making genuine-seeming posts as scum is one of the easiest things to do in mafia, and more so if your only real concern in a game is staying alive for one day and one night

do you think that if i were questioning people, pointing out things that seem alignment-indicative and putting forth solid arguments that make it seem like i believe what im saying that id be more town for it? or do you think you'd be able to discern something in the rhetoric id spew that is more likely to come from scum than town or vice versa? because, arrogant as it may sound, i don't think you could...

and this is something you can ponder about and question whether im likely to take a risk here... do you honestly think ill be around after today if im scum?

[zMuffinMan]

i do think i would be more satisfied having lost to someone who was applying themselves as scum over someone who wasnt though, yknow?

btw i wasnt insinuating something like "haha my scum game is impossible to discern from my town game" (i just think that on the inside when i mock you peasants, it's not something i'd openly say though), just that i don't think applying yourself to "scum hunting" is hard to do as scum and i think it is especially hard to discern the difference between scum rhetoric and town rhetoric like that when a player actually puts any sort of thought into what they write (i.e. has two brain cells). i acknowledge some people have difficulty with it but uh, looking at a post and thinking, "if i were town, what would i think about this?" isn't a difficult feat imo)

i think efforting can be nice but um, i don't think it's a standard by which you should be trying to determine alignment

i may or may not be saying this as justification to avoid efforting

*shrug*

this setup is odd in that, from my point of view, it doesn't really bother me whether or not you think i'm scum or town - either i find and lynch scum today, in which case yay, or i don't, in which case it doesn't matter in the least what you think of me as long as there aren't 5 people who believe i'm the most likely player to be scum

i suppose from the perspective of making as many people win as possible if we mislynch today, it's a good idea to look town? eh... tbh my primary objective here is

annoying antihero

being right and at some point i determined that efforting wouldn't change this as long as the information is already there and it's not like i'm posting

nothing

that can be read into maybe so meh

/rambling

[zMuffinMan]

depends on who your hypothetical partner would be.

no, not really

i mean, it depends on who my hypothetical partner is insofar as i might be in a predicament if theyre more likely to get votes than i am but if that's the case then, presumably, i'd be doing something to avoid getting votes, no?

unless you think i'm scum who's so confident that i'm not going to get any votes because i'm such a charming and likeable fellow (granted, i do think that, but still...)

[zMuffinMan]

y

[zMuffinMan]

i was expecting a 500% increase in activity and content when PV replaced tbone

given 500% of zero is zero, id say my estimate is right on track

[zMuffinMan]

but you can let other people win too i just don't see the benefit of winning by yourself over winning with other people other than being a nice guy
isn't it maybe even better cause then these people could also share your sentiment and then they won't vote for you and then you won't get instalose (which is a possibility for you)

and how can you say that someone doesn't have the possibility of being lynched? is it like marquis or something?

Glory!

and or something.

i thought it was me and was like "ok sure" but i feel i might get a lot of accusations this game. my activity level is like super low until tomorrow night-ish.

i'm probably just going with the flow today and shooting bins tmrw if it comes to that

wait a minute... if you're worried about getting accusations, does that mean we can accuse the scum that flees?

(im hilarious)

[zMuffinMan]

i was expecting a 500% increase in activity and content when PV replaced tbone

given 500% of zero is zero, id say my estimate is right on track

wat do u think abt my awesome strat 4 lynching???

considering that our combined credibility in this game is about that of my shoe laces, i don't see how doing that is feasible!

[zMuffinMan]

probably not, no

[zMuffinMan]

is anyone not "crapshooting" in this game

[zMuffinMan]

i don't think it "doesn't matter", i just don't pretend that anything with so little to really go on is more than a "crapshoot"

[zMuffinMan]

i guess you did expand on a townread on him earlier.
just seems kind of ridiculous for you to imply your townreads are special and everyone else's are garbage.

isnt that exactly what youre saying when you think youre right and someone else is wrong? i dont get your issue

[zMuffinMan]

its just frustrating to me that you were chiding me for having townreads

you can have town reads. i just dont think you should pretend that it's not possible (or even unlikely) that any player couldn't write anything that's happened in this game as either alignment. or maybe i'm severely over-estimating the skill level of certain players and youre right. *shrug*

to be clear, it's not the "having townreads" thing i was criticising you for, but the fact that you seem to think "scum hunting" is a town trait

[zMuffinMan]

i dont think it's all that unlikely that quilford is scum because of certain posts he's made but i also don't feel so strongly about it that i'd want to lynch him today so i am kind of getting close to the point where i think i want to lynch PV because the slot could be scum then, if im wrong, when marquis flees, think about it when we get to that point

[zMuffinMan]

granted most of the reason i want to lynch pbone is there's nothing there, and what little there is smells worse than my socks so i am not going to pretend there's some rock solid case to go on but i have not really been sold on anything elsewhere so whatever

[zMuffinMan]

I want to lynch hiplop so half the game doesn't waste their shots on him if he doesn't flee.

why wouldnt he flee if hes scum?

[zMuffinMan]

and you have no worries about the same thing happening with hiplop?

we only get one lynch and there's only so many players we can kill with one lynch

should i use my day vig (that i actually really have) on hiplop to make you happy?

[zMuffinMan]

Bribe, having an even scummier/lurkier scumpartner...

I mean you can't just completely shrug off an entire justified wagon based on the logic that "if they're scum they'll flee so why bother"

Like that is shitty logic

what exactly do you think i was saying?

because what youre saying i was saying wasnt what i was saying

[zMuffinMan]

Bribe, having an even scummier/lurkier scumpartner...

also uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

which partner could he possibly have that's "scummier" than someone who's been a main wagon for the majority of the day and how is a bribe going to work when half the game is suspicious of him... you yourself said multiple people are likely to vote him so uh....

[zMuffinMan]

Well, now you've brought up that if he's scum he'll likely flee and made it a topic

WIFOM!

Congrats you win

no, dumbass

you brought it up

when you complained that we should lynch him because otherwise we'll have to deal with him post-lynch...

me pointing out the logical conclusion (if he's scum, he almost certainly won't be around after today) is a direct response to your pathetic fucking argument

and no it's not fucking WIFOM, it's fucking risk assessment; unless there's someone in the game who's somehow more suspicious to the town as a whole OR he's confident that he can mind-game town (which is dumb), he flees as scum - this isn't WIFOM, this is just fucking fact. you might argue "welll MAYBE HE IS GOING TO MIND GAME TOWN", ok, up to you to think that, i think you're very very wrong though

[zMuffinMan]

Because he was scummy

was he? where? because he didn't answer your questions or because you think he did something legitimately "scummy"?

And then he lurked under the pretense of giving the game "more space" and bam the wagon on him slowly fades

and? is his grand strategy as scum to build up a large amount of suspicion and then hope people think more favourably of him for being absent? what votes on him went away for that reason? how does that work when the same people calling him scum before are still calling him scum?

Also, those personal attacks are incredibly unnecessary. Holy crap dude, chill.

*shrug* don't post shit and i won't call it shit, i think that's a fair policy

i don't respond kindly to people telling me im saying shit that i blatantly didn't say

you brought up the argument that we should lynch him today so as not to deal with him tomorrow. i just pointed out how faulty that is as an argument. you then start making claims that im saying the reason we shouldn't lynch him is because he'll flee

[zMuffinMan]

Oh good and now you're misrepping/lying about what I've been saying

no,

dumbass

not-very-perceptive individual

your entire argument

in that post

was what i said

you made no other argument

you made no other argument about hiplop on that page

you get to go in the fucking antihero bin (at least he's more tolerable than you)

[zMuffinMan]

when did i say you hadn't previously made another argument about him? that's not even the fucking point

when youre arguing someone should be lynched for fucking god-awful reasons, it doesn't matter if you've previously given a less god-awful reason, you're still spewing shit

the conversation to this point may as well have been

X: hey we should lynch davsto because his avatar scares small children
Y: well, i don't think that's true and i don't think that's a good reason to lynch him
X: WHAT!?!??! ARE YOU SAYING WE SHOULDN'T LYNCH HIM JUST BECAUSE HIS AVATAR DOESN'T SCARE SMALL CHILDREN?
Y: no, i'm calling your argument shit
X: BUT I'VE PREVIOUSLY MADE OTHER POINTS SO IT DOESN'T MATTER. WHY ARE YOU MISREPRESENTING ME???!??!
Y: fuck off, cunt

[zMuffinMan]

Oh good and now you're misrepping/lying about what I've been saying.

why don't you show the class where this "misrep/lie" occurred so we can all have a good chuckle at your incompetence

[zMuffinMan]

"scumminess" haha
"unnecessary hostility" fuck off, cunt
"general other bad points" shouldn't be so hard to point them out, then!

[zMuffinMan]

And also when I said misrepping I meant the sequence of events at the bottom of your post which is pretty obviously wrong but hey, why attack my actual point when you can attack a strawman that's different to my actual point!

yeah?

let's look at the entirety of each of the posts in question, then...

Talking more about number of posts to content ratio

Somehow you managed to make your rebuttal look even more hypocritical than the original statement. 10/10, bulge, 10/10

I want to lynch hiplop so half the game doesn't waste their shots on him if he doesn't flee.

I want to lynch hiplop so half the game doesn't waste their shots on him if he doesn't flee.

why wouldnt he flee if hes scum?

Bribe, having an even scummier/lurkier scumpartner...

I mean you can't just completely shrug off an entire justified wagon based on the logic that "if they're scum they'll flee so why bother"

Like that is shitty logic

now let's look at how i described the sequence of events:

you brought up the argument that we should lynch him today so as not to deal with him tomorrow. i just pointed out how faulty that is as an argument. you then start making claims that im saying the reason we shouldn't lynch him is because he'll flee

hmmmmmmmmmmmm

[zMuffinMan]

could someone outline the main point/s against hiplop and why they think these points make him scum

btw kuroi, who isn't even voting hiplop, is the only one who responded to this iirc, so all you hiplop voters whining about people not listening to you can fuck right off

[zMuffinMan]

Alright, so I'm having a hard time with Muffinman's avatar not being a muffin but Katsuki's is. Can you fix this shit? Preferably, one of you change your avatar to Wayne Brady?

my avatar is wayne brady as a muffin

it's just hideously deformed

not my fault, i just used one of those "what would happen if x and y had a child together" things and it generated this

[zMuffinMan]

muffin what are your thoughts on hiplop and PV?

i don't really mind the indignant air about hiplop's posts when people started calling him scum though i don't have enough experience with him to say whether he's likely to say some of the things he's said here as scum so *shrug*

i don't like the fact that tbone flaked. i don't like pv in general but i like pv less so when his contribution to the game is "hey i got half an hour" then "page 4. meh"

like of the <100 posts he would have had to read in 4 pages, the average length of them is what? 20 words? 2000 words total in 1800 seconds. either PV reads slower than a first-grader or he spends about 30 seconds a post, pondering really deep things like "was his use of 'the' coming from a town mindset or a scum mindset?"

granted "page 4. meh" is more content than i've ever seen pv produce in a game but i dunno i was just hoping for more

[zMuffinMan]

realistically, i don't have enough to go on with tbone/pv to definitively call them anything with any shred of confidence, i just do not like what either half of pbone has done in this game and i dont like this more than i dont like other players i could vote right now

[zMuffinMan]

i didn't mind reck though there wasnt much to go on

and to be honest, i havent been reading nosferatu's posts

i just took a quick look through the iso. i don't see anything that really makes me think scum

it's also probably slightly more likely that a town player reads up to a post on page 4, thinks there's something really wrong with it, then sticks with that read (albeit, with not-very-good reasons) than it is scum just decided "fuck it, gonna do this because reasons" so *shrug*

[zMuffinMan]

that said in 953 he claims to have read up to p13, in 1073 he says he's only read up to 83

he could just be making shit up and stalling

[zMuffinMan]

eh, nosferatu's points have been pretty bad

i suppose he could be scum

ill maybe read through his posts properly later when i'm not

pretending to be

doing work

[zMuffinMan]

why hiplop

[zMuffinMan]

maybe, maybe not

the fleeingest person is probably in { hiplop, pv, nosferatu, marquis }

i dont see why hiplop looks more fleeinger than the rest

[zMuffinMan]

does that make him look worse? because you think he at least tried to do stuff that means he's scum hoping to flee?

*shrug* outside of pv who hasn't been in danger of a lynch until very recently, none of the others have

needed

to do anything

[zMuffinMan]

VOTE: nos

p sure hiplop is town. i think it's good

man this is way harder as town =_=

how would you know?

haha

get it?

[zMuffinMan]

i dont blame anyone not having much fun from last 10-15 pages in this game. everyone is being pretty needlessly abrasive.

in my defence, "if you're not a fuckwit, i won't call you a fuckwit," is a pretty fair policy imo

[zMuffinMan]

Tbone didn't post a single time from April 28th -> may fourth on site

I think he just had to leave. I don't think perev is scum

yeah he didn't post

he came online on at least two occasions though so he was on site

[zMuffinMan]

davsto tbh I wouldn't have called you a cunt if I realised you'd get that upset about it but I also wouldn't have called you one if i didn't think you were being one

You took me asking about hiplop fleeing as me saying "I don't wanna lynch hippopotamus because he'll fled so there's no point" and then when I point this out you act like I'm fucking stupid for pointing out I'm not saying what you said I said and then you make up bullshit about me lying and misrepresenting shit when I can quote word for word what actually fucking happened

At that point I proceeded to call it as I saw it *shrug*

[zMuffinMan]

Tbone didn't post a single time from April 28th -> may fourth on site

I think he just had to leave. I don't think perev is scum

yeah he didn't post

he came online on at least two occasions though so he was on site

think that is relevant? I'm unsure. Very possible he just checked in twice? I doubt he'd commit that hard to siteflaking.

Do you?

He didn't site flake.

[zMuffinMan]

he checked in then started posting on site after he was replaced

maybe he was legitimately busy and didn't even have time to check into the game to say "hey I'm scu- uh, I mean busy right now."

you have to wonder why he signed up for a game like this, if that's the case

[zMuffinMan]

the only player i really feel like voting outside of pbone is marquis but i doubt that will happen today so ill hedge my bets on pbone and watch marquis flee if im wrong i suppose

[zMuffinMan]

Alright, so I'm having a hard time with Muffinman's avatar not being a muffin but Katsuki's is.

btw this was really racist and i almost reported it

i wouldnt be surprised if cupcake reported it actually (and justifiably so)

[zMuffinMan]

i dont feel great about any of my reads

but if it came down to pbone and hiplop, i'd want pbone dead

because otherwise people will waste votes on him post lynch!

if marquis was a counter-wagon to pbone, that would actually be ideal imo

[zMuffinMan]

is he

[zMuffinMan]

why would anyone expect more from me

y is pbone town

[zMuffinMan]

*shrug* doesn't look that bad to me but then anyone who wants to lynch pbone doesn't look that bad to me so

[zMuffinMan]

i dont really think the reasoning for the cupcake read is good but then it's pv so

i dont really think the reasoning for the reck read is good but then it's pv so

am i missing something amazing he did

[zMuffinMan]

i mean... i think he called cupcake responding to my first post scummy but i'm not sure i'm reading that right

[zMuffinMan]

Well, it started when you took a perfectly good piece of RVS fluff

Spoiler:

Hi everybody.

I'm

Dr. Nick

zMuffinMan and I am your IC in this game. What does IC stand for? Why,

Inexperience-Challenged

Innocent Child, of course. That means I'm confirmed town, and any votes for me make you a Trump-supporter. But, really, I'm basically confirmed town because there's like... no way I roll scum before the reroll and after it... right? (#GamblersAxiom)

If you have any questions about game mechanics, mafia theory or anything else, I, as your IC, will tell you to bugger off and pester someone else.

Here are some useful links for those of you who are new to the game:

• Youtube - a useful link for viewing videos and having lengthy philosophical discussions in the comment section of a video about cats
  
• Google - a useful link for searching for videos of cats
  
• Sanrio - for all your Hello Kitty needs

These links don't have much to do with the game of mafia but I find them useful nonetheless.

Good luck and have fun!

Vote: Cupcake

and tried to add icing on it.

Spoiler:

Thanks muffin those links was very helpful!

Then 88 has nothing also, and then you vote Reck (92), who, for the first time I've ever seen, did scumhunting AND content within the first 5 pages.

That's when I figured you were scum.

Subsequent reading has not done anything to change that. Especially given how NOT SCUMMY many other players are appearing.

[zMuffinMan]

i mean, i could say "well it's pv so i dunno" but tbh if anyone else was making that same case i'd probably have already used my day vig on them

[zMuffinMan]

people remember things differently when they talk about scum reads they had over the course of a game

i take "i called X scum" to pretty much universally mean "at one point in one post in a past day phase, i voted them"

[zMuffinMan]

PS:

Vote: Antihero

Vote: Bins

Vote: Cogito Ergo Sum

Vote: Davsto

Vote: Gorkington

Vote: hiplop

Vote: JohhnyFarrar

Vote: cupcake

Vote: kuroi

Vote: Marquis

Vote: Quilford

Vote: SnarkySnowman

Vote: The Bulge

Vote: Nosferatu

Vote: PeregrineV

if we lose this game, it's not because of me, i voted scum

[zMuffinMan]

ill quote whichever vote of mine is appropriate in post-game should i lose

[zMuffinMan]

im not on that list

ill be the friendly guy who says nice things about people (like ive been doing all game)

[zMuffinMan]

when people ask you questions you dont just say "fuck you and your dumb questions get better you scrub" and not expect someone to be frustrated with you.

wait, what?

what else are you meant to say to people when they ask questions?

inb4 "fuck you and your dumb questions get better you scrub"

[zMuffinMan]

why are people reading cupcake as town?

[zMuffinMan]

that would imply he's not scum though

if he were then he'd think hiplop's scum

[zMuffinMan]

VOTE: PV

Sucks that all of the wagons on the board are town in my mind but w/e. We live in sadtimes.

who are the scum again

[zMuffinMan]

btw, i got prodded so i guess that makes me town... i doubt he'd prod scum coz they don't really need to be active

logic as flawless as davsto's hiplop-muffin thing

[zMuffinMan]

^ scum lying about receiving a prod

[zMuffinMan]

any of the points against hip

what points

[zMuffinMan]

stirring-up-shit-then-fleeing strategy that people think hiplop might be attempting if he's scum

i mean sure

i could imagine a strategy half the game could be doing as scum planning to flee though so meh?

[zMuffinMan]

would you mind giving me your thoughts on hippy's pushes in general this game?

if i had a vig shot for everyone who has made a bad push in this game, there'd be no one left alive

i don't think any of hiplop's reasoning for votes has been particularly good. i also think that of most if not all of the rest of the game, too

i mean, in all honesty, there's not a whole lot to suggest hiplop isn't scum, i just haven't seen much that's convincing other than what i expect of hiplop as a player in general, which is a whole lot of not-looking-town-with-not-so-great-play

do you think that exaggeration is null/town/scum?

in a vacuum, null. there may or may not be some specifics to the situation that are alignment-indicative but tbh i havent been paying close enough attention to know what exaggerations youre talking about

and him getting all worked up about people/[or more specifically me] calling snarky/pere highest on my scumlist when he'd been voting t-bone before he moved on to nosferatu and when hes expressly indicated that hes pretty fine with lynching either of them now.

it was either a ploy to get people to think "hey he's not being survivalist atm coz hes defending counter-wagons to himself" or that's what he actually thinks. i may look at this again in the morning but i doubt it's as bad as you're making it out to be

[zMuffinMan]

can you refer me to games where you feel like hip has given you that expectation?

i havent played with him a long time (i think) i've just briefly followed some games he participated in but i dont recall which ones specifically off the top of my head

[zMuffinMan]

i dont think a lurker lynch is so bad in a setup like this where there's clearly going to be one scum making the least amount of associations they can. the question is which of the least-amount-of-association people is the bad guy and which of them is the bad people in general

[zMuffinMan]

well, there we have it. i doubt he'd lie about that so he must be town

[zMuffinMan]

surprised

[zMuffinMan]

well my first guess would have been marquis but im not 100% sure theyre scum together (again) so i might do some reading on my way to work

[zMuffinMan]

(specifically the part about muffin's sanrio link and my subsequent "addition of icing" to muffin)

this had me really confused. like i said, any other player, i would have vig shot them immediately (i still have my vig shot btw, i think i can use it post game)

[zMuffinMan]

Liked playing with you Muffinman even if I found your style a little hard to deal with sometimes.

I mean, I get that I'm not going to win Miss Congeniality (though, fingers crossed, I may still have a chance) and I know my posts aren't as polite as they could be (I probably could have used "please" and "thank you" a little more than I did), but I don't just go out of my way to insult people (as much of a surprise as it may be). I just tend not to hold back what I really think about something

[zMuffinMan]

Man I think lurker lynches bum me out even more when they're right

*shrug* I'm not going to pretend that I was making rock-solid points or even that I was really confident about it, but it wasn't *just* a lurker lynch (even if it may have felt that way to some)

[zMuffinMan]

'twould be funny if it's kuroi and that whole early game interaction with tbone was distancing

[zMuffinMan]

You're just saying that cuz you don't think hippie's scum

out of interest, was this a slip? because i remember thinking it was an awkward thing to say about someone you think is scum (which is why i made the post immediately after that one). it seems like a slip (albeit, subtle enough that i don't know if i'd have remembered it had it come down to figuring out who was scum after a mislynch)

[zMuffinMan]

will scum PT be made public? and although i really don't think it matters, will the scum PT from before the reroll be made public?

[zMuffinMan]

i also find it a bit funny that before the reroll marquis was scum and after it TBone was scum

[zMuffinMan]

how good or bad an individual scum player does in this setup is probably tied in to how good or bad their partner does a lot more in this setup than in others

not much you can do except i dunno, be more persuasive in pushing another lynch or shutting down the lynch on your partner? i dunno if it would have worked either way

[zMuffinMan]

Cupcakes > muffins being wrong is a good way for the game to end