Mini 1783: GTA 2 Mafia (GaME OVAH)
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Bearbert D Goon
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Firebringer Trail Blazer
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In post 1320, shos wrote:Overall, the setup is balanced in my opinion. it is a mindfuck for EVERYONE, and it came out brilliantly. The gameplay was awesome.
2 SKs are balanced? Okay I will inform more people about that.Show"You are the Joker of mafia players" - Oversoul
"last time I was scum with Firebringer
his first post in the scum PT was "yes I rolled scum!"
I decided to post "haha just don't post that in the main thread", but to get up to date on the main thread first.
His first post in the main thread was "yes I rolled scum!" -popsofctown-
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Dwlee99 They/themSurvivorThey/them
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what? Eventually one of us would have killed the other.
pedit I kinda just played like town, I pretty much NEVER get night killed as town because I'm seen as an easy mislynch / sucking at the game so I just tried to scumhunt and forget that I was serial killer.
pedit2 Yea the game was 7 town v 4 scum, not very balanced for town. Seemed like a coin toss for which scum team would win tbh.-
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Firebringer Trail Blazer
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In post 1320, shos wrote:9. DK's role was clearly the most swingy role in the setup. The target was a random town. They pushed the lyncher part soooooo vehemently that it hurt town. I was impressed at the start, it could definitely work and make them town's best asset - but Jeanne got replaced and Ranger played beautifully. BEAUTIFULLY. If DK was more pointed to finding scum, and LATER making sure his target gets dead, he would have better chances. BUT, this definitely was the hardest role in the game, and in hindsight, it is probably too hard. I mean, if target is lynched, then it only has to outlive Dom and Titus - not the SKs. if target dies in some other way - then he has to outlive the SKs too, which makes him just a townie, but a townie who has to survive. they did have a BP, though. I dunno.
I think the problem was you gave us a role and alignment which made us have a anti town aspect of requiring that person got lynched and then hiding another aspect (Which In my mind is 100% bastard) for us to be able to win, so we either had to have faith that if our target did die we could still win.
I told DS, almost my main concern was Ranger getting NK and then us unable to win. So of course I pushed that lynch instead of really scumhunted Day 1.Show"You are the Joker of mafia players" - Oversoul
"last time I was scum with Firebringer
his first post in the scum PT was "yes I rolled scum!"
I decided to post "haha just don't post that in the main thread", but to get up to date on the main thread first.
His first post in the main thread was "yes I rolled scum!" -popsofctown-
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Ircher He / Him / HisWhat A Grand IdeaHe / Him / His
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Yeah, we lost partially due to lack of info, partially due to being tired of playing, and partially to quickhammers.
Magna's claim was good but wouldntve kept him alive forever.
Dwlee truly did slip through the net and therefore did deserve to win.-
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Firebringer Trail Blazer
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In post 1329, Ircher wrote:Yeah, we lost partially due to lack of info, partially due to being tired of playing, and partially to quickhammers.
Magna's claim was good but wouldntve kept him alive forever.
Dwlee truly did slip through the net and therefore did deserve to win.
I mean, I guess he deserves a win?
The setup favored scum, and town played pretty bad. Yeah, I guess Dwlee could be seen as "slipping through the cracks" but really I think any scum could have and it was a toin coss like you said.Show"You are the Joker of mafia players" - Oversoul
"last time I was scum with Firebringer
his first post in the scum PT was "yes I rolled scum!"
I decided to post "haha just don't post that in the main thread", but to get up to date on the main thread first.
His first post in the main thread was "yes I rolled scum!" -popsofctown-
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Firebringer Trail Blazer
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Congrats on the win DwleeShow"You are the Joker of mafia players" - Oversoul
"last time I was scum with Firebringer
his first post in the scum PT was "yes I rolled scum!"
I decided to post "haha just don't post that in the main thread", but to get up to date on the main thread first.
His first post in the main thread was "yes I rolled scum!" -popsofctown-
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Dwlee99 They/themSurvivorThey/them
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BlackStar he/himMafia Scumhe/him
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Dwlee99 They/themSurvivorThey/them
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In post 1327, Dwlee99 wrote:
pedit2 Yea the game was 9 town v 4 scum, not very balanced for town. Seemed like a coin toss for which scum team would win tbh.-
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shos Survivor
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They were odd- and even- night killers, they couldn't cross kill on the same night.
In post 1326, Firebringer wrote:
2 SKs are balanced? Okay I will inform more people about that.In post 1320, shos wrote:Overall, the setup is balanced in my opinion. it is a mindfuck for EVERYONE, and it came out brilliantly. The gameplay was awesome.
Guys, low chances for town to win =/= imbalanced. if there are 4 factions and ech has 25% to win, then of course it is likely for town to lose, but it is also likely for scum to lose, and likely for SKs to lose.In post 1327, Dwlee99 wrote:what? Eventually one of us would have killed the other.
pedit I kinda just played like town, I pretty much NEVER get night killed as town because I'm seen as an easy mislynch / sucking at the game so I just tried to scumhunt and forget that I was serial killer.
pedit2 Yea the game was 7 town v 4 scum, not very balanced for town. Seemed like a coin toss for which scum team would win tbh.
counting people doesn't cut it for balancing. There are also roles to account for.
This game should have been a fight between dwlee and the rest of town. Assuming a MoI autolynch after the survivor claim (after dom), it would have remained 6 town vs dwlee, with only even night kills...In post 836, Lucky2u said:
Rule # 5h05: players should not attempt to use or manipulate the mod for any purpose.-
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shos Survivor
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1. You could ask, lol. I explicitly said that we'll see if your target dies.In post 1328, Firebringer wrote:
I think the problem was you gave us a role and alignment which made us have a anti town aspect of requiring that person got lynched and then hiding another aspect (Which In my mind is 100% bastard) for us to be able to win, so we either had to have faith that if our target did die we could still win.In post 1320, shos wrote:9. DK's role was clearly the most swingy role in the setup. The target was a random town. They pushed the lyncher part soooooo vehemently that it hurt town. I was impressed at the start, it could definitely work and make them town's best asset - but Jeanne got replaced and Ranger played beautifully. BEAUTIFULLY. If DK was more pointed to finding scum, and LATER making sure his target gets dead, he would have better chances. BUT, this definitely was the hardest role in the game, and in hindsight, it is probably too hard. I mean, if target is lynched, then it only has to outlive Dom and Titus - not the SKs. if target dies in some other way - then he has to outlive the SKs too, which makes him just a townie, but a townie who has to survive. they did have a BP, though. I dunno.
I told DS, almost my main concern was Ranger getting NK and then us unable to win. So of course I pushed that lynch instead of really scumhunted Day 1.
2. if you could lynch Ranger, all you had to do was claim that you were a lyncher on him and are now town. There would be no reason for anyone to make such a lie unless it's true.In post 836, Lucky2u said:
Rule # 5h05: players should not attempt to use or manipulate the mod for any purpose.-
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Dwlee99 They/themSurvivorThey/them
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shos Survivor
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MagnaofIllusion has been killed Night 1
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Thanks for the game Shos. As I’ve already commented a very swingy but to my mind not unbalanced game. Role madness is tough to handle and looking over everything I can’t really quibble. In fact the axiom “If everyone is complaining how unbalanced it was towards the other side you are doing things right” applies.
Town who complained – frankly I don’t want to hear it. Town was loaded for bear this game. The fact that you ended up using your abilities poorly isn’t the game designer’s fault. For instance – why FA didn’t immediately RoleCop me Night 2 to settle once and for all whether I was actually a survivor or lying was a bad decision.
I’ve seen Titus’s dead thread comments but I’m curious how she feels about the balance given her team’s abilities.
I got a chuckle each time I read through the dead thread and saw grousing about me not being lynched. Every single one of you had a chance to lynch me if I was so obvious. Yet none of you did. The after the fact posturing really doesn’t look good on you.
Dwlee played well enough to win and congratulations to him for that.
Town lost because they shut off their brains after Day 2. I led them to the Mafia and going into Night 2 they relaxed. Complacency in that situation was poison. To loosely quote the Dresden Files “My breed loves kindness. I will show Town kindness. And I will strangle them with it. And they will thank me.”
Shos – I disagree 100% with the Survivor claim being a mistake. Claiming Town Informed means that I should have immediately claimed Day 1. Town MoI would never let that information potentially rot to a Nightkill. So claiming Day 2 I had to have a built in reason not to be forthcoming about my role. Plus the Surivor element means I’m not a threat per-se to scum. Yeah, it put a timer on my lifespan but dayplay got me to LYLO and unfortunately I couldn’t post my message before Ircher so he understood what was going on before dropping a vote.
Also just leaving this here as I thought it was funny.
Twigged to this Day 1.
"I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
Pretty much Geriatric game restricted at this point ... unless there are players I REALLY want to play with.-
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Dwlee99 They/themSurvivorThey/them
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I thought people were gonna call me 3rd party to that! And now that I think about it if everyone has an equal chance to win it is balanced. I suppose I just feel differently about game setups. Swingy setups are generally that way because of night actions. Having other people's night actions decide the game just bothers me kinda. I put focus on dayplay.I prefer they, thanks :)-
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shos Survivor
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ןand you did great.
MoI, you are right. Id have claimed. Tpown informed, and when asked, id probably say it is best to not fully claim, lol.
Cery well llayed.In post 836, Lucky2u said:
Rule # 5h05: players should not attempt to use or manipulate the mod for any purpose.-
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DiamondSentinel Jack of All Trades
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I said it in the dead chat, I'll say it here.
Under no conditions, ever, should town be able to be in anunwinnablecondition after1 day. That was very very possible. 5 non-towns out of 13 is almost 40% non town.
1 town lynch D1, a possible dayvig, and 3 possible night kills N1 makes for a quite high chance of an unwinnable situation for town D2. This game never should have made it past review.“Why was I chosen?'
'Such questions cannot be answered,' said Gandalf. 'You may be sure that it was not for any merit that others do not possess. But you have been chosen, and you must therefore use such strength and heart and wits as you have.”-
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DiamondSentinel Jack of All Trades
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And that's without me looking at town PRs. That's only the nontown ones.“Why was I chosen?'
'Such questions cannot be answered,' said Gandalf. 'You may be sure that it was not for any merit that others do not possess. But you have been chosen, and you must therefore use such strength and heart and wits as you have.”-
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Klingoncelt Jack of All Trades
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BlackStar he/himMafia Scumhe/him
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I voted for you, left and when I came back a little while later you'd already been lynchedIn post 1344, Klingoncelt wrote:GG. Thanks for letting me play, Shos.
So why did you guys lynch me, Respect? Shame, shame...-
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Ircher He / Him / HisWhat A Grand Idea
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shos Survivor
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how can town possibly get to an unwinnable situation after one day? For town to lose they need at least 5-6 people dead.In post 1342, DiamondSentinel wrote:I said it in the dead chat, I'll say it here.
Under no conditions, ever, should town be able to be in anunwinnablecondition after1 day. That was very very possible. 5 non-towns out of 13 is almost 40% non town.
1 town lynch D1, a possible dayvig, and 3 possible night kills N1 makes for a quite high chance of an unwinnable situation for town D2. This game never should have made it past review.
Also, you taking the worst possible outcome, whose chances are like 0.01%, is really not how you balance game.
I should remind you that, if you take it that way, D1 lynch, D1 dayvig, and a crosskill at night can get a perfect town victory after just one night.
And this is not counting scum getting poisoned, shot by the delayed town nightvig, etc.
you thinking that this is how you balance games is absurd. Town was PACKED with power; you *chose* to be firstly antitown - this is a bad choice imo - and as such, even counting you as antitown is wrong.In post 836, Lucky2u said:
Rule # 5h05: players should not attempt to use or manipulate the mod for any purpose.-
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Ircher He / Him / HisWhat A Grand IdeaHe / Him / His
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DiamondSentinel Jack of All Trades
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1. We were not anti town. The way we understood it was that we had to win with town. Also, there was a possibility that all deaths were on town, or even enough that it would be pretty much unsalvagable for town. Regardless of the size of this chance, it's a mathematical possibility.
2. Our wincons were thus:
A. Lynch ranger, and then live to see Mafia lose. Don't know if that could happen mid game D2 (or possibly 1) or if we had to survive the entire game. If that failed, procede to b.
B. Town wincon.
So basically, we spend X amount of time trying to get a town lynched, and if we fail, we have to pick up the pieces.“Why was I chosen?'
'Such questions cannot be answered,' said Gandalf. 'You may be sure that it was not for any merit that others do not possess. But you have been chosen, and you must therefore use such strength and heart and wits as you have.”
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