Open 633: Near Vanilla-GAME OVER

[kelbris]

go right ahead

[Imperium]

My opinion of town competency this game is not that high. I include myself in that, I'll admit freely. This is not one of my prouder games. But I held zero confidence in you not lynching me yesterday. I held zero confidence in another lynch forming. I've been on the losing end of "Ranger or player" multiple times. In this case, Ranger or Masquerade, town or town. But I saw nothing indicating this wasn't going to happen again: Ranger versus some other player, Ranger gets lynched.

For instance. Did you read the game overnight? If so, did you come to any conclusion other than the default "Ranger is scum" you have now? Would your reread, at all, whatsoever, have reduced your scumread on me? Your scumread, that was apparently strong enough that you placed your vote on me while you wanted to reread? Because if the answer is "no"...my point holds.

The point is that instead of fighting your lynch, you bet the game on a Masquerade!scum flip when Masquerade hadn't actually done anything that was overtly scummy. Not getting lynched the day before MyLo is useless if it means that you'll be lynched during MyLo. I'm not particularly interested in arguing with you on this point since you're somehow still arguing that you were right and somehow don't see how the move you made would be absolutely horrendous if you were town; from what I've skim-read since I've began catching up, it also doesn't seem like you're overly concerned with finding scum of any flavor either.

[Imperium]

Oh ... and Killthestory is still obviously scum. Anyone who wants to debate that needs to explain, for starters, how he did ZERO scum-hunting Day 3 (except, of course, when he and Titus had their little fun buddying and he pointed out Masq as scum which was of course 100% wrong) after his scum-hammer on a player he was calling Town to "move on to better scum-hunting". Not a single person has EVER addressed this with any degree of anything other than "I think he's Town" and I want answers from ANYONE holding a Killthestory Town read.

My problem with the KTS case is less that I think that his actions make sense from a normal town perspective and more that I'm not currently willing to put my weight behind the scum case on him. I don't think that hammer on CoM to move onto better scumhunting was scummy; I didn't think that KTS as scum needed to hammer that wagon in order to get CoM lynched, and I'm not sure that he would hammer someone that he publicly thought he was town in order to get a lynch that was guaranteed anyways instead of just shutting his mouth and accepting the free town cred.

[RachMarie]

YAY glad you two are still in the game ♥

[Nosferatu]

Wow you're bad. Do whatever the fuck you want, the only thing that's gonna teach you is failure.

VOTE: Ranger
I'll sheep you since you're god or whatever.

When your only response is to throw rhetoric ... I don't know what to tell you ...

That's not rhetoric. I'm not trying to persuade you to do anything. It's like you've got a buzzword generator that spits out random words for you to use.

[Ollie]

Glad to see Imperium still in the game, a replacement woulda taken ages.

[Nosferatu]

inb4 imperium/ollie/rach scumteam sweep

[RachMarie]

LMAO if Imp and I were on the same scum team I can guarantee you Nacho would have bussed me ASAP. He has done it before.

[Ranger]

The point is that instead of fighting your lynch, you bet the game on a Masquerade!scum flip when Masquerade hadn't actually done anything that was overtly scummy.

There's six players an absolute minimum of three which disagree with that assessment.

Masquerade had done plenty, and so had Lowell. These cases were laid out by multiple people over the course of yesterday, and even when not explicitly stated, were at least outlined.

from what I've skim-read since I've began catching up, it also doesn't seem like you're overly concerned with finding scum of any flavor either.

It's not needed. More effective is townhunting. MagnaofIllusion is town. You are town. Nosferatu is town. That leaves one town slot for four names. Reasons and exact reads are more formalities than anything else.

[Titus]

VLA today, not feeling well

[Ollie]

Imperium are you two gonna catch up then? 2 posts in 5 days isn't enough, pretty pathetic considering there's 2 of you.

[Ollie]

& come on

Titus

, respond to this eh...

My point is. You have zero experience with me as scum. Yet when Ranger states this is my scumgame with very little backing it up, you're posturing based off differences between my alleged town and scum meta. You shouldn't have any foundation to suggest a meta read. Even now, your read is very simplified. It reads as if Someone (my bet is on Ranger) told you to find examples of Titus being nice and argue it's sucking up.

Even now, you ignored the context you asked me to provide you. There's a difference between being a civil human being and avoiding confrontation Ollie. You're attempting to paint them in the same brush.

I use whatever info I have at my disposal, the goal is your reaction to the things I'm saying. The sucking up stuff is not a strong scum case on its own, it was a way into putting some pressure on you (like I was doing with everyone). It's clear I'm still sorting people by looking at Rach & Kill possibly bussing Ranger etc but you're behaving as if I'm advocating we lynch you today when I've never even said you're scum. I mean you have a problem with not being in the bus scenario I said was a possibility, er what? I asked you about the sucking up posts & you then come up with two scenarios, funnily enough I'm scum in both. Where is your reason there, anyone who questions you is scum? Were you trying to discredit me? Or what? Then you say the same Ranger I want to lynch today has coached me overnight about you as if the game revolves around you, & continued on with that nonsense. What info do I have that I shouldn't?

[Imperium]

Imperium are you two gonna catch up then? 2 posts in 5 days isn't enough, pretty pathetic considering there's 2 of you.

No, we're not going to catchup. We're just going to comment on those two posts and make our decision based on that.

[Imperium]

I’ll be voting Ranger in my first post back regardless.

I'd be happier if you didn't do this; I'm currently townreading both Nosferatu and RachMarie (who are in your top 2), and Ranger's responses to me haven't been at all what I expected if she was scum (granted, I'm not exactly confident that she is town but with the way this game is going I think we'd be dumb not to pretty heavily consider the possibility), and I'd like a little bit more time in order to talk this out with you.

[Imperium]

I know I made a promise and broke it already, but I should be in full(er) form by tomorrow after work; I'll keep connected to this game until then.

[kelbris]

VC 4.05

Titus (0): none
Ranger (3) [L-2]: Killthestory, Titus, Nosferatu
MagnaofIllusion (0): none
Imperium (0): none
Killthestory (0): none
Nosferatu (0): none
RachMarie (0): none
Ollie (0): none
No Lynch (0): none
not voting: Ranger, MagnaofIllusion, Imperium, Ollie, RachMarie
With 8 players alive, it takes 5 votes to lynch.
day 4 has begun, it will end in (expired on 2016-06-04 18:00:00)

[RachMarie]

Game just ended that can explain the bizarreness of my pred... I could not say anything before because it was ongoing. He basically replaced into this game with me and blew it for town even though he was a townie. Though also TBF Nahdia did a good job as scum. He literally took a strong town slot and convinced everyone to vote for him in MYLO.

So yeah I can see why MoI would be reading my slot as scum instead of town.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=65645

@Imp why the sudden reversal on Ranger, I still think she is scum.

[Ranger]

I'd be happier if you didn't do this; I'm currently townreading both Nosferatu and RachMarie (who are in your top 2), and Ranger's responses to me haven't been at all what I expected if she was scum

Nosferatu as town is a given, but if you think I could be town and think Rach is town, what's your guess for a scumteam? {Titus, Ollie, Killthestory}?

At this point it's pretty much a given Titus and Killthestory have to be scum since I haven't been hammered. The only question I would have is on the third. How sure are you that RachMarie is town? Enough to risk the game on?

[Titus]

@Ranger, Why did you suddenly clear Nos?

[Ranger]

@Ranger, Why did you suddenly clear Nos?

Nothing sudden about it. Nosferatu has been one of my strongest townreads since half-way through D2.

[Imperium]

How sure are you that RachMarie is town? Enough to risk the game on?

Yes.

Titus, Ollie, KTS would be what I think the scum team would look like with you as town.

[Killthestory]

How sure are you that RachMarie is town? Enough to risk the game on?

Yes.

Titus, Ollie, KTS would be what I think the scum team would look like with you as town.

There's one minor flaw here

[Imperium]

I mean, if you look at daystart, I think it's pretty dang obvious scum were hoping to get a quicklynch on me and that I'm town, because they would have no way of knowing I hadn't, say, read the whole game and 100% absolutely caught the scum. I got to L-2, with Titus on the side. One more vote on me from someone other than her, and I'd be dead right now and we'd be in night. Given that as reason for me to be town, sure.

I don't think the people who placed votes on you after you quickhammered were placing unreasonable votes, whether scum or town. I don't think scum would be voting you because they were afraid that you caught the scum; I expect scum would be voting you because they thought that you were a pretty solid mislynch after you quickhammered.

[Imperium]

Only off thing he did that sticks in my mind is replacing out at the time he came under pressure.

This seems like a pretty strange scumtell for OW. Do you think that a scum player who was capable of making the posts that OW did would replace out simply because he was being pressured? Not threaten to replace out, mind you, but actually replace out.

Mod: Can you delete that post? Here's the fixed link version.

What was your intention in making this post?
Not saying it was useless or anything like that, I'm just trying to understand what argument you were trying to make (if any).

the actual correct scenario is to no lynch without posting at all so scum doesn't have more information on who to kill but you guys fucked that over already. Lynching will result in your lynch. I don't have any suggestions on who to lynch today. I'm completely stumped. All my scum reads have been off so far. I don't have faith in us lynching scum or correctly stopping a kill so I'm playing it safe and hoping the kill will narrow something down for me.

I don't think that there is a correct play when there's no hard information to be gained. If we'd like, we could force a no lynch with doc publicly on Magna and Magna publicly on a townread, but I can see a scenario where a stronger townread of mine dies (you) and I have nothing gained. The only kills that would be useful for me would be a kill in {Ollie, KTS, Ranger, Titus}, but I don't really see one of those kills happening at this point; I'd expect scum would no kill before taking the townie in that four out.

[Imperium]

So you're we should no lynch without talking... Yet you aren't voting no lynch.

Why would this be a significant tell?

I asked you two things that I'd love an answer to: What's your relationship with Tammy like now, & what was it like before you replaced into this game? & some more if you don't mind... Why would you offer to replace out? If it's because you've had issues with each other in the past, why do you think you've had no issues in this one? I'd appreciate direct answers to every question.

This entire line of questioning seems useless to me. This is being spurned due to Titus's offer to replace out, correct?
Titus and Tammy have history. Why do you need more context than that for you to believe it was something that was so ridiculous that it could only be coming from scum sucking up?