Newbie 1713 (Game Over)

[Huntress]

Sorry I haven't had time to follow up on this today. I'll get to it tomorrow.

[Antihero]

Vote Count 1.3

Charloux [2] - Alexcellent, Foxbird
arak-and-skhug [1] - SirCakez
Foxbird [2] - arak-and-skhug, Huntress
SirCakez [1] - Wirt

Not Voting: arak-and-skhug, inspectorscout, adamdf101, Charloux

5 to lynch
Deadline is in (expired on 2016-06-10 13:20:09)

[SirCakez]

Let me try to make myself even clearer.

You obviously disagree with how Foxbird voted me, someone who had only posted to confirm their slot, over someone she actively scumreads. Meanwhile, Arak has made a case on Foxbird, which includes criticizing of the same vote choice. However at no point do you acknowledge this -- be it by agreement, total disagreement, or partial agreement -- and then you question inspector about why they consider the comment about flailing to be worth of a townread, which is basically contesting the townread on Arak.

Basically, it is not clear what your view on those players are, neither what you're trying to figure out at the current moment.

If it wasn't clear, I also have a scumread on Fox originating from the vote on you before you made a content post. I also have a scumread on Arak obviously. Both of my sets of questions revolve around these scumreads. I'm not sure what's not clear.
And then, what are the all questions in 66 going to accomplish?

Cakez, if you think Foxbird and I are both scum, why haven't you said one word about our interactions? If we're both scum then I'm blatantly and obviously bussing her and it's weird that you wouldn't mention that at all. Either you're witholding information or this is fabricated and you didn't think about it hard enough.

I don't think you're necessarily scum together, while I am scumreading both of you. Especially in this super early stage I highly doubt both of my scumreads are accurate and I've nailed the scumteam in you two already.
I like that you brought this up though as it's a valid concern so this does raise my read on you.

The questions do carry weight though, I'm awaiting a response from foxbird and am discussing with inspector.
I do not have any strong stances currently yes, but it is the third page. I'm still waiting to engage with most of the playerlist.

Discussing with me? well, I pretty much said what I wanted to say about that flail thing. I was slightly wrong though. I said it was a town move, but actually, considering he is a new player, he probably doesn't like to leave arguements unfinished because loose end could be dangerous. It's not really a town move; but I don't see the scumminess(is that even a word lol) in it either.

We were talking about the flailing thing but it's dropped off now. If anything, I think leaving the argument unfinished would have been a town move as I think scum would be more likely to try to make sure their image looks good and they resolve everything aimed at them.

[Wirt]

Let me try to make myself even clearer.

You obviously disagree with how Foxbird voted me, someone who had only posted to confirm their slot, over someone she actively scumreads. Meanwhile, Arak has made a case on Foxbird, which includes criticizing of the same vote choice. However at no point do you acknowledge this -- be it by agreement, total disagreement, or partial agreement -- and then you question inspector about why they consider the comment about flailing to be worth of a townread, which is basically contesting the townread on Arak.

Basically, it is not clear what your view on those players are, neither what you're trying to figure out at the current moment.

If it wasn't clear, I also have a scumread on Fox originating from the vote on you before you made a content post. I also have a scumread on Arak obviously. Both of my sets of questions revolve around these scumreads. I'm not sure what's not clear.
And then, what are the all questions in 66 going to accomplish?

No, it definitely wasn't clear - at least, your read on Foxbird wasn't. The two questions from your post follow exactly what I meant to say - they're open-ended enough that could've been molded to fit the flow of the game as it goes by, and not risking to test the waters. For example, both questions below simply show disagreement over what they're replying to (Foxbird and inspector respectively), but don't really go as far as to say "scummy", not even preceded by a "slight". I've paired the two questions side by side, and while they're around the same vein, only the former warranted a scumread. Which is curious-- If your questions carry scumread weight, where's the one on inspector? What are you really achieving by the flailing 1 on 1 there?

[...]
This makes little sense to me. Why vote someone who hasn't made any content yet over someone who's produced content that you find scummy?
[...]
What's townie about saying he didn't flail? It's not like scum would completely refuse to discuss it.

---
As for the questions I made, the first is basically a prompt for scumreads. The second seeks insight on their understandment of the mentioned tells, and have something to hold her accountable of in the future in case she makes use of them to form a read. The third is a second prompt, just for actively scumhunting, instead. The fourth serves the same purpose as the second.

It seems to have been somewhat of a sucess: They made a readslist, with a scumread on Charloux which more or less fits her previous description of Mafia behavior.

Aaand to Wirt's questions:

Do you think anyone matched that described behavior, so far?

I hope my readlist answers this one.

It does. At least, somewhat. I don't really see the scumread on Charloux as strongly as you do. The main point against him seems to be fluffing, but I argue that both him and Alex have done about as much in terms of effort (disregarding Char's last post). Speaking on quantity alone (and regarding RVS votes as not-content), by the time of your reads, 4 out of 9 of Char's were arguably fluff, while the numbers for Alex were 4 out of 8. In terms of content, I believe they break even more or less. 38's first line and 46 are what I consider Alex's content, with 17 and 48 being Charloux's.

What I conclude here, is that you seem to favor Alex for reasons that aren't very great: The comment regarding votes is more of an opinion over mechanical stuff; his proactive questions aren't necessarily game-solvy (at least I haven't seen the purpose for some of them yet, hence why I asked about it on my second post); and a RVS wagon on him not triggering any sort of reaction on Alex!Mafia could've been for 1) Confidence that five townies wouldn't be dense enough to quicklynch in RVS (a fair assumption) OR 2) Knowledge of his teammate to be on his wagon, which basically means two votes instead of three, and therefore less reason to worry about being lynched early.

These could be for either reasons:
1) You are town who is struggling with your reads/reading appropriately (how much people say > what people say).
2) You are mafia struggling to make consistent reads, who read Alex as town before but had to make a read of scum on Charloux once forced to stick with your axioms due to my questioning.
3) You are mafia who townread Alex for being teammates.

Note that because I listed 2 mafia options against 1 town option, does not mean I think you're more likely to be mafia. I'm simply placing the possibilities on the table.
I'm holding judgement off you for now. I'll wait your next couple of posts before making any further assumptions.

----
71 is basically what I tried to say with 64. The agenda

[Wirt]

Thoughts on that post from everyone would be appreciated.

And yes I'm aware that last sentence is incomplete, but I have to leave now and I forgot to delete it. But I was alluding to my previous comments on SirCakez.

[arak-and-skhug]

Wirt, I agree with what you posted. Also the flailing discussion has been going on for too long without saying anything really of value and I'm frankly getting tired of reading that word. It's slowly losing it's meaning and becoming just sounds in my head......flailing......flailing......flailing.....Anyway I don't like how Cakez never mentioned, referenced, or acknowledged my post 52 on Foxbird.

Also Cakez I don't understand why your vote is on me rather then Foxbird. Correct me if I wrong but I get the impression that you think I'm more likely to be town than she is. Your vote on me is in response to my first two posts, even though the meat of my contributions happen later, and you never mention anything I post again until my post 71, which you respond to positively. So I'll ask you forwardly, why are you voting for me instead of Foxbird? Even if you find us with perfectly even chances to be scum, wouldn't it make more sense to be on a wagon with two other players then all by yourself? One lone vote doesn't accomplish much.

[arak-and-skhug]

Foxbird, Wirt has some good advice for you, and I'll add to it by pointing out that in your reads list, you use the fact that someone is kind and helpful as a sign of towniness, and I'd caution you against that. This game has lots of potential for wolves to dress up in sheep's clothing. Scum can be charming and welcoming. Town players can often be exasperating and abrasive because they don't have anything to hide. Keep in mind that if you are town, the only other players who know that for sure at this point are the two scum. And when they see a new player getting targeted, they have two choices. They can pile on and pound with all they got to try to push you to be mislynched, but once you flip everyone will see that you were town, and your wagon would be the first place they'd start looking for scum. It's a very obvious move and maybe not the best choice. The second choice they have is to support you and defend you and that gets you individually thinking they're town for being helpful, and if you do still get mislynched, they can reap town points for being on your side. So don't give people being helpful to you a free pass.

Or of course they could just be your partner trying to keep you out of trouble!

[arak-and-skhug]

The questions do carry weight though, I'm awaiting a response from foxbird and am discussing with inspector.
I do not have any strong stances currently yes, but it is the third page. I'm still waiting to engage with most of the playerlist.

Discussing with me? well, I pretty much said what I wanted to say about that flail thing. I was slightly wrong though. I said it was a town move, but actually, considering he is a new player, he probably doesn't like to leave arguements unfinished because loose end could be dangerous. It's not really a town move; but I don't see the scumminess(is that even a word lol) in it either.

If on the off chance that Inspector & Foxbird are the scumteam, that was a MAJESTIC bailout by the Inspector himself.

Wait is this like a compliment or... i dont get this lol

Yeah i dont have stuff to contribute on so i wont, but if you have any questions about my reads on ppl or smth make me do it xd

All I'm saying is that your post 55 really threw Foxbird a bone. You explained to her why she was being scumread, and guided her in a new direction. And now by following your advice she looks to me (and I believe to others) a lot more towny. For me it's too early to try to pick out an intact scumteam but this could have easily been scum coaching a partner. And if it was, you did a very good job because I seem to be the only one who picked up on it.

[inspectorscout]

The questions do carry weight though, I'm awaiting a response from foxbird and am discussing with inspector.
I do not have any strong stances currently yes, but it is the third page. I'm still waiting to engage with most of the playerlist.

Discussing with me? well, I pretty much said what I wanted to say about that flail thing. I was slightly wrong though. I said it was a town move, but actually, considering he is a new player, he probably doesn't like to leave arguements unfinished because loose end could be dangerous. It's not really a town move; but I don't see the scumminess(is that even a word lol) in it either.

If on the off chance that Inspector & Foxbird are the scumteam, that was a MAJESTIC bailout by the Inspector himself.

Wait is this like a compliment or... i dont get this lol

Yeah i dont have stuff to contribute on so i wont, but if you have any questions about my reads on ppl or smth make me do it xd

All I'm saying is that your post 55 really threw Foxbird a bone. You explained to her why she was being scumread, and guided her in a new direction. And now by following your advice she looks to me (and I believe to others) a lot more towny. For me it's too early to try to pick out an intact scumteam but this could have easily been scum coaching a partner. And if it was, you did a very good job because I seem to be the only one who picked up on it.

LOL if she was my scum partner i wouldve told her what to do in the scum chat, not here

[inspectorscout]

fuk nvm i forgot scum chat is only at night here, where i learned the game scum could chat whenever they wanted

[arak-and-skhug]

Inspector why aren't you voting for anyone?

[inspectorscout]

because i did my rvs vote away for some reason and im having troubles reading this game
but yah i should use my vote so
VOTE: Sircakez
cuz i still think he hopped on way too easily + his statement on that (ok last time i swear) flailing + gut + everyone else so far seems null or nulltown too (yes, cakez is null too, just a really small scum lean), i havent seen anything yet, no matter how often i read this forum
i know these are bad reasons but yah

[Foxbird]

The current votecount up there has a couple mistakes (Arak's on there twice and the Charloux votes are separated), so I'll take a moment and make it accurate.

Unofficial Vote Count 1.3.1

Charloux [2] - Alexcellent, Foxbird
arak-and-skhug [1] - SirCakez
Foxbird [2] - arak-and-skhug, Huntress
SirCakez [1] - Wirt, inspectorscout

Not Voting: adamdf101, Charloux

_ _ _

I don't think scum is necessarily coaching here - I mentioned town points for that on three players (Alex, Inspector and Wirt), so even mathematically they can't all be. Inspector and Wirt I both townread for other reasons as well. Those two (and Arak) seem to be the most diligent scumhunters so far. But yeah, if I'd take away town cred I assumed for helping, Alex looks a lot more suspicious due to lack of content.

Do i treat this like all your other votes and brush it off with some little defending, or do you have some questions to go a bit indepth?

You can treat this however you want. I scumread you for fluffing, not something scummy you said. I liked 72's insights, but the questions you're asking do not provide much depth either. You haven't voted yet, so surely you are scumreading someone as well and have some questions for them?

Checking the votecount, I also noted that Alex hasn't moved his RVS vote yet. You, too, must have at least a slight scumread somewhere to vote for? But in 73 you said you'd post something today, so maybe that's when we'll get that.

[Foxbird]

Aw, crap, Inspector posted while I was writing, so I added him to the count, but forgot to change the number at the front.

SirCakez is at 2 votes, not 1.

[Charloux]

It does. At least, somewhat. I don't really see the scumread on Charloux as strongly as you do. The main point against him seems to be fluffing, but I argue that both him and Alex have done about as much in terms of effort (disregarding Char's last post). Speaking on quantity alone (and regarding RVS votes as not-content), by the time of your reads, 4 out of 9 of Char's were arguably fluff, while the numbers for Alex were 4 out of 8. In terms of content, I believe they break even more or less. 38's first line and 46 are what I consider Alex's content, with 17 and 48 being Charloux's.

This is new to me. Are you finding clues in fluff to useful posts ratio? It's more indicative personality-wise. I play this for fun and when i see somebody playing 100% Mechanically it just kills my motivation.

LOL if she was my scum partner i wouldve told her what to do in the scum chat, not here

fuk nvm i forgot scum chat is only at night here, where i learned the game scum could chat whenever they wanted

Since you negated your own defense , care to make a new answer?

You can treat this however you want. I scumread you for fluffing, not something scummy you said. I liked 72's insights, but the questions you're asking do not provide much depth either. You haven't voted yet, so surely you are scumreading someone as well and have some questions for them?

This is interesting. I have finished a couple of games and i don't remember anybody using fluff as a scumtell; But now i see both you and Wirt use it.
@Huntress: Is it common for newbies to use fluff as a scum tell, or do you think i'm on to something?

[arak-and-skhug]

Wait, Foxbird, you say Inspector posted while you were writing? It took you an hour and half to write that post?

And I'm sorry but how is Inspector one of the most diligent scum hunters?
Inspector who says he's having trouble reading this game, who admits he doesn't have much to contribute, who adds the disclaimer after his vote "i know these are bad reasons but yah"
All he's done was start that back and forth about flailing. And what's his opinion at the end of it? That's it's not really a town move but he doesn't see the scumminess in it either.

So Foxbird that's who you think is one of the most diligent scum hunters in the game? You, Charloux, and even Cakez have all contributed more then him, in my opinion.
This is now the second funny interaction between the two of you.

[arak-and-skhug]

oh wait I can't read clocks, it was just a half hour between foxbird and inspector posting which is less crazy

[inspectorscout]

It does. At least, somewhat. I don't really see the scumread on Charloux as strongly as you do. The main point against him seems to be fluffing, but I argue that both him and Alex have done about as much in terms of effort (disregarding Char's last post). Speaking on quantity alone (and regarding RVS votes as not-content), by the time of your reads, 4 out of 9 of Char's were arguably fluff, while the numbers for Alex were 4 out of 8. In terms of content, I believe they break even more or less. 38's first line and 46 are what I consider Alex's content, with 17 and 48 being Charloux's.

This is new to me. Are you finding clues in fluff to useful posts ratio? It's more indicative personality-wise. I play this for fun and when i see somebody playing 100% Mechanically it just kills my motivation.

LOL if she was my scum partner i wouldve told her what to do in the scum chat, not here

fuk nvm i forgot scum chat is only at night here, where i learned the game scum could chat whenever they wanted

Since you negated your own defense , care to make a new answer?

You can treat this however you want. I scumread you for fluffing, not something scummy you said. I liked 72's insights, but the questions you're asking do not provide much depth either. You haven't voted yet, so surely you are scumreading someone as well and have some questions for them?

This is interesting. I have finished a couple of games and i don't remember anybody using fluff as a scumtell; But now i see both you and Wirt use it.
@Huntress: Is it common for newbies to use fluff as a scum tell, or do you think i'm on to something?

lol no then i dont have a defense. I was just trying to help her out, but if thats so suspicous, ill ask the IC to do it next time.

Wait, Foxbird, you say Inspector posted while you were writing? It took you an hour and half to write that post?

And I'm sorry but how is Inspector one of the most diligent scum hunters?
Inspector who says he's having trouble reading this game, who admits he doesn't have much to contribute, who adds the disclaimer after his vote "i know these are bad reasons but yah"
All he's done was start that back and forth about flailing. And what's his opinion at the end of it? That's it's not really a town move but he doesn't see the scumminess in it either.

So Foxbird that's who you think is one of the most diligent scum hunters in the game? You, Charloux, and even Cakez have all contributed more then him, in my opinion.
This is now the second funny interaction between the two of you.

yeah you are right, i am not a diligent scum hunter rn lol, i asked some questions at the start and so far thats kinda it. But, dont say this is a funny interaction between us two. she posted it, i didnt say anything about that.

[Charloux]

lol no then i dont have a defense. I was just trying to help her out, but if thats so suspicous, ill ask the IC to do it next time.

Not scum reading you for it, i just think it's funny

[inspectorscout]

uh yah i have some time so ill do some quick reads (i love to do those randomly because they are like dry wood in the oven of discussion)

arak: yeah since the start i have a slight town lean on him (that pointless flail discussion came after but well i guess we could say its neither scum nor town). His scumhunting on foxbird seems pretty honest (you have to be like genious to get that much out of 4 pages if you have to make that up) the last part of post 52 seems filler but oh well. However, i dont like his try to scumpair already, trust me, if she was my scumpartner i would make sure we wouldnt be seen as a scumpair, that would be just plain stupid. And if i use that logic, wirt would be a scumpartner too, because he mentioned that we 'mindmelded'. gonna say nulltown

foxbird: she doesnt seem to have an opinion herself and arak made some good points about that. However, ill give her a little newbie leniency for now, i remember that i was scared to have an opinion too. null

wirt: althought he came late to the party, he did some pretty nice stuff so far. Nulltown

sircakez: i still think his jump on is way too opportunistic, but seeing hes a SE he wouldnt be that stupid. But, his both scum reads are still arak and fox, which is pretty weird. so far he didnt give any opinion yet, he just quoted stuff and asked questions that seem more about other people's opinions + his stuff is full of 'maybe' 'i have a weak read' 'i highly doubt'. Nullscum

Alex: not enough posts on the more serious subjects so far. null

Charloux: you are SE yet you constantly ask huntress for her opinion. weird. Your earlier stuff is just fillers, too. Later on you kinda quote the whole thread which is totally not needed, seems like filling up. In both walls u wrote down, you still didnt say that much about what you think. nullscum

huntress: yah i dont have shit about her yet

[Alexcellent]

So I'm getting caught up, I'll just post things as I see them.

I find this:

5. Foxbird, your vote is on me to see my defense. What specifically do you want me to defend against? Your vote? Or just in general? If I jump around in a town t-shirt, would that qualify?

What you posted is what I wanted to see - just the whole 'how does he react under pressure?' thing. I like your reaction, though I find the 'Town T-Shirt' comment a bit strange.
And yes, many of the 'issues' probably boil down to playstyle etc, so I'm moving my vote to someone who I want to see do something for now.

Hmm...
UNVOTE: Arak
VOTE: Wirt

Let's see what he says after catching up!

To be more likely coming from town more so than scum. That's provided Arak's town. While the Wirt vote is fairly weak, I don't see why scum!Foxbird moves off of a wagon that has momentum to apply pressure on someone who hadn't even posted at that point. Unless Arak's her scum partner and she was legitimately afraid that he was at risk of being lynched, but that seems unlikely to me.

[Alexcellent]

Hello folks

shalom yall

this is my second game and I lost my first one so I really want us to win this one to make up for it.

yo maybe I'm crazy but I don't think anyone should be at L-2 before they've even made their first post. there's two mafia and if they aren't already on this wagon, they could lynch Alex before he even gets to say hello. Not ideal.

Anyway.

One time when I was in middle school a girl named Ashley stole my gummi worms and I never really got over it.
So
VOTE: ashley

As several other have noted, the third paragraph here is very bizarrely paranoid. And the follow-up to being questioned by Huntress also looked very defensive to me. A good vote to get me into the game.


VOTE: arak

Wait what. Am i the only one that thinks this is an extremely convenient hop on?

And arak saying that he didnt really flail is a rather town move; if he was scum he wouldve most likely tried to avoid discussion about that

I find it kind of sheepy, but not necessarily scummy.

[SirCakez]

No, it definitely wasn't clear - at least, your read on Foxbird wasn't. The two questions from your post follow exactly what I meant to say - they're open-ended enough that could've been molded to fit the flow of the game as it goes by, and not risking to test the waters. For example, both questions below simply show disagreement over what they're replying to (Foxbird and inspector respectively), but don't really go as far as to say "scummy", not even preceded by a "slight". I've paired the two questions side by side, and while they're around the same vein, only the former warranted a scumread. Which is curious-- If your questions carry scumread weight, where's the one on inspector? What are you really achieving by the flailing 1 on 1 there?

[...]
This makes little sense to me. Why vote someone who hasn't made any content yet over someone who's produced content that you find scummy?
[...]
What's townie about saying he didn't flail? It's not like scum would completely refuse to discuss it.

---
As for the questions I made, the first is basically a prompt for scumreads. The second seeks insight on their understandment of the mentioned tells, and have something to hold her accountable of in the future in case she makes use of them to form a read. The third is a second prompt, just for actively scumhunting, instead. The fourth serves the same purpose as the second.

It seems to have been somewhat of a sucess: They made a readslist, with a scumread on Charloux which more or less fits her previous description of Mafia behavior.

The second question was over arak's flailing thing. He commented that my vote on arak was bad because mentioning flailing was a townie thing, which I obviously disagreed with so that lead to the discussion.
What's your read on foxbird now?

Wirt, I agree with what you posted. Also the flailing discussion has been going on for too long without saying anything really of value and I'm frankly getting tired of reading that word. It's slowly losing it's meaning and becoming just sounds in my head......flailing......flailing......flailing.....Anyway I don't like how Cakez never mentioned, referenced, or acknowledged my post 52 on Foxbird.

Also Cakez I don't understand why your vote is on me rather then Foxbird. Correct me if I wrong but I get the impression that you think I'm more likely to be town than she is. Your vote on me is in response to my first two posts, even though the meat of my contributions happen later, and you never mention anything I post again until my post 71, which you respond to positively. So I'll ask you forwardly, why are you voting for me instead of Foxbird? Even if you find us with perfectly even chances to be scum, wouldn't it make more sense to be on a wagon with two other players then all by yourself? One lone vote doesn't accomplish much.

I've already stated why I didn't specifically mention 52. I looked at it since you requested though and you raise good points on the votehopping. We both agree the hop to Wirt was bad.
I think I'll UNVOTE: you for now, your posting has improved a lot.

I looked at inspectorscout's ISO and I found some concerning stuff.
The progression from 39 to 50 makes little sense. He specifically says he has arak as nullscum in 39, yet in 50 he defends arak and gives a reason to townread him. The only post in between was an unvote of Foxbird. I don't see how he just got from nullscum to defending in 10 posts.
And then I don't like his readslist in 94
There's a lot of vague reasoning.
For example, his nulltownread on Wirt is summarized as "althought he came late to the party, he did some pretty nice stuff so far. Nulltown" which looks like a throwaway townread scum would make.

VOTE: inspectorscout

[Alexcellent]

I looked back at Foxbird's Iso

Her first two posts are a random vote on Alex and a rundown of mafia experience, nothing important


then check this out

I agree with Huntress and Alex in that 18 was very over-the-top defensive as a reaction to an offhanded joke. I, too, would like to know why that moved Arak to remove his (single, non-wagoned) vote off of ashley, who hasn't even said anything.

Not sure what to make of the Charloux/Alex interactions, but kinda regarding that as banter for now.

VOTE: Arak to see what his defense is.

Here she's the third person to criticize my defensiveness and the second to criticize my ashley unvote. Anything meaningful in her post is parroted from other players. Her only original thought is some loose association between Charloux and Alex with plenty of room to backtrack and write it off as meaningless if she needs to down the future.

I find this to possibly carry some weight. She was sheeping a bit and it's possible that she's giving herself room to backtrack if needs be. But also, maybe not.

And after she calls out me being "over-the-top defensive", her reasoning for her vote is to see my defense? Still don't understand that. I'm too defensive but you want me to defend myself more.

Ok hi guys im the new ashley, it seems
So, rqs: did you guys play a lot of games as scum already?
Oh and ofc a nice vote Uhhh
Aint no foxbirds exist
VOTE: foxbird

What i think is that arak is def on my nullscum list for that reaction, but not more than that. Flailing isnt necessarily a scum thing; dont forget this is a newbie game, we (yes im a newb too) tend to stress a lot when they are suspected, regardless of alignment.
Im keeping my rvs vote tho, ill let huntress continue their discussion, id love to see what foxbird has to say

Not sure what you want me to say! If this is an RVS vote, there's not really anything to defend against
I do agree that Arak

might

be town flailing, but I'm interested in his defense anyway.
Also I usually end up Town in Mafia games I play, not much serious scum experience.

Also, yes, Foxbirds don't exist - but they should!

Once again we have Foxbird agreeing with someone elses point, and that italicized might is again giving her plenty of room to back track. If Foxbird is scum then she know's I'm town. And she knows she might have a harder time riding my wagon then she might have originally thought. because it needs to be noted that my three vote wagon wasn't a RVS wagon like the one on Alex, it was a serious wagon with intentions to find scum, and everyone on that wagon should have had solid reasoning for being on it.

I'd be more inclined to go along with this if Foxbird wasn't the first person to leave the wagon. Surely scum waits to see how the rest of town reacts to your defense before bailing on the wagon right?

which I mentioned in my post 45

and the minute I subtly pointed a finger at the people who followed Huntress onto the wagon (Foxbird & Cakez), Foxbird switched her vote to Wirt.

5. Foxbird, your vote is on me to see my defense. What specifically do you want me to defend against? Your vote? Or just in general? If I jump around in a town t-shirt, would that qualify?

What you posted is what I wanted to see - just the whole 'how does he react under pressure?' thing. I like your reaction, though I find the 'Town T-Shirt' comment a bit strange.
And yes, many of the 'issues' probably boil down to playstyle etc, so I'm moving my vote to someone who I want to see do something for now.

Hmm...
UNVOTE: Arak
VOTE: Wirt

Let's see what he says after catching up!

Foxbird voted for me after Huntress with an empty reason, and all I had to do was make one post before she backed off with equally empty reasoning. And then in the ultimate lazy scum move she votes for someone who hasn't had a chance to participate yet because it requires the least amount of work. Instead of Alex, Huntress, or Inspector, all who would require some degree of fabrication (which would require sticking her neck out a bit which could potentially expose her), or just unvoting (which wouldn't fit with all this faux scum-hunting, trying to look town she's been doing) she votes for Wirt which is all the under-the-radarness of not voting at all with the perks of still pretending to look for scum.

Those are my thoughts for now.
VOTE: Foxbird

What do you think of SirCakez's reasoning for joining your wagon?
What does scum!Foxbird have to gain from voting for Wirt? That's not a lynch she would have been able to make happen, whereas there was a lot of suspicion and pressure on you already.

[Alexcellent]

So how much experience do all new players have with mafia? Played much before offsite or is MafiaScum basically it so far?

I've been playing Mafia for over a year now, but I still do not consider myself very experienced. Still make plenty of mistakes at times (more specifically at role madness closed games, which always catch me with my guard down).

By the way, I've noticed you have been making some questions, but not doing much with them afterwards. Do you have a purpose here, or is it mostly banter?
And yes, that question above HAS a purpose.

Early questions are partially banter and to get some discussion happening, but also selfish information for me
I don't always follow up on questions, unless there's more I want to learn or I'm just not satisfied with the answer or I need clarification.