Firstly, I took a few minutes to look through the Mini Normal Archives. Now I know this game is not Normal and contains non-Normal roles, but I know that Radja tries to balance his games as if they were Normal. (And his Pokemon games follow all the Normal guidelines except the source material rule so I know he's well acquainted with them.) I searched for "rolecop" and "role cop" and marked down the instances of each for town and scum, making a distinction between full (Rolecop) and limited (2-shot Rolecop, Odd-Night Rolecop, etc.), and this what I found:
5 Town Full Rolecops
17 Scum Full Rolecops
4 Town Limited Rolecops
4 Scum Limited Rolecops
Make of that what you will.
The second thing is a game that I think will be somewhat enlightening with regards to half of the WhiteLight hydra. In this game, Suzune got into trouble early on. She got confused about the setup and made several posts that looked like scumslips. With two people (in a six-player game) pushing hard down her throat (although one did get replaced early on), she managed to avoid being lynched and become universally townread. And look at the way she did it. Pretty much the exact opposite of what she's been doing here.
Now I know both heads of WhiteLight complained about us using meta. But the fact is that meta works, and that's why people use it. This hydra is playing at a much lower level than each head is capable of on its own, and that has to count for something.
Radja also likes to mess with meta expectations. He put three town in a hood together in Episode 3 for example.
In TWD there was a watcher and in episode 2 of pokemon there was an even night cop and a scum role-cop. Also keep in mind the power differences between an alignment and a role cop.
In post 307, SirCakez wrote:This is just stupid though. Java's claim sounds legit to me actually.
You said the same thing about my role cop claim in The Legend of Zelda. I am not saying he isn't a role cop I am saying he is a scum role cop.
In post 307, SirCakez wrote:Why haven't you mentioned this read at all before?
We would rather capitalize on our GL and Java scum reads first as they are stronger and by the time we potentially lynched them oour read on you would have probably developed.
~Bee
True, I could see a scum 1-shot Rolecop. I don't see why he would claim Rolecop over a 1-shot Cop or something less scummy if he was scum though.
ftr I think WhiteLight is town who just needs to get their act together.
also VOTE: GuiltyLion
In post 321, Maverick1102 wrote:@S_S: If your meta argument supports what WL is arguing, why aren't you voting Java instead? Because at the moment it looks like you're arguing the same point with WL against Java yet wanting to lynch WL anyway.
I'd just like to know what your reasoning is behind voting for WL, essentially.
I think you're totally misunderstanding my argument. My argument is that, as mollie said, their posts and analysis are shallow, plus they're being super defensive and complain-y, at the expense of scumhunting.
My meta argument is that I've seen WL play this exact same way as scum and I have seen both beeboy and Suzune be obviously town, and that's not at all what I'm seeing here. What made you think that my meta argument was in support of WL?
Well (correct me if I'm wrong) but the statistics you found seemed to back-up WL's argument that Java's claim was a rolecop, but scum-aligned. It seemed strange that you would reference sources that backed up their argument, then have a go at them anyway.
I heartily dislike the use of meta anyway but that's a different matter.
Caught up since my last posts, not much has changed for me. Maverick went from null to scumlean for 321. Waffley and he's pushing on S_S for the meta argument, yet somehow not seeming to care about sorting S_S's alignment. I'm not even particularly sure what the goal of that post was as he complains that java claimed but then also is suggesting that S_S should be voting java instead of WL.
Still think WL is the best lynch for today, their push on java on the basis of his claim is terrible. And
In post 310, WhiteLight wrote:We are being scum read for not playing to your guys expectations that is not meta that is just stupid.
~Bee
is 100% a "scum feeling caught for dumb reasons" post.
Also, having just played a game as scum where I spent weeks bullshitting a push on town!Cakez in LYLO, this looks very similar to his town game again.
"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"
I'd like BBT to get in here and move his vote and for the nonvoters to vote. It helps me a lot more to have wagons build and fall to see where people go.
"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"
In post 328, Maverick1102 wrote:Well (correct me if I'm wrong) but the statistics you found seemed to back-up WL's argument that Java's claim was a rolecop, but scum-aligned. It seemed strange that you would reference sources that backed up their argument, then have a go at them anyway.
No... the point of those data was that rolecop in general is usually a scum role, but limited rolecop does not have the same strongly scum connotation that full rolecop does.
In any event, it is by no means a "blatantly scum role" and that's one thing I dislike about WhiteLight.
I tried to hint it here, post 259What the town needs is a regular cop., however it seemed to go over everyone's head. There would be no reason for the town to need both a role cop and an actual cop. Since the cop brings up the guilty the town needs and the role cop just confirms there are indeed power roles. The town need not know what the enemy has packing as long as they know they are the enemy.
I'm sceptical, but I'm happy to sleep on it. UNVOTE: WhiteLight
Part of me wants WL to be telling the truth but the actions they've taken could easily be done by scum too, and so I'll still consider putting them back at L-1 tomorrow!!
In post 337, WhiteLight wrote:I tried to hint it here, post 259What the town needs is a regular cop., however it seemed to go over everyone's head. There would be no reason for the town to need both a role cop and an actual cop. Since the cop brings up the guilty the town needs and the role cop just confirms there are indeed power roles. The town need not know what the enemy has packing as long as they know they are the enemy.
@ mod - will be doing survivor meet stuff from the 9th to the 13th and during I the interim I will be getting stuff ready so v/la
So after I flip town 1 shot role cop on a day 1 lynch, are you then going NGOs to lynch WL for the same reason as me day 2 if they are still alive and possibly kill 2 town cops? Meanwhile we could both investigate each other to prove our stories tonight?
Hmph. I kind of buy that claim, and I think it forces a 1v1 since I will be mad if Radja put two town investigative roles in the same game.
WL's claim also seems to imply that there's a 3p, which would be consistent with the previous games (some did, some didn't).
Pretty sure the best play here is to lynch Java. Unless we lynch neither and see their results? Though Java certainly is a rolecop considering you don't fakeclaim rolecop as scum when you aren't one, and letting him out his result doesn't confirm anything and just outs more roles. So I don't think we gain anything leaving Java alive at this point.
![:]](./images/smilies/icon_smiling.png "Cheerful Smile"){kind=icon}