Open 645: C9++ - Game Over

[Ümläüt]

Are you implying that loopdan looked scummy?

Yes, voting once in RVS and then coming back to unvote "because RVS is over" without saying anything else is scummy.

Major scum tell in my book, [Transcend's] promising read lists without ever delivering. He's voted mostly on low posters and whatever wagon was conveninent.

I

kind

of agree but promising stuff without delivering can also mean a person is actually RL-busy. I know every long post I make takes me forever to write because I'm interrupted about 26,484,467 times in the process.

287 More self-defense and pretty lame self-defense at that, basically saying it's okay to give vague cover-all-the-bases quasi-scumreads like he did. (No, it's not okay.)

It's my meta. It's not going to change. I don't do strong scumreads until there are flips, period. I have a wiki page, knock yourself out. Or you can just zip it.

Brilliant, I should zip it and LQ should zip it, we should just talk about other people instead! I don't see how this could possibly be a suspicious response.

I like this especially because it's just self-meta-consistent when you do it but it's a scumtell when LQ does it.

I mostly agree with Umlaut's posts that he posted.

This makes me uncomfortable.

What Smith said -- what do you actually agree with

[Transcend]

Prodge

Sorry

Busy

[davesaz]

@Dave, I remember your defense of Transcend felt a tad strong, as if you knew he was town despite him just entering the game. Would you explain why you didn't/don't want players voting for Trans?

I am inherently suspicious of people who yell "xxx is scum vote with me" without even once giving a why.
I had no read on Trans at that point. It would not matter in the slightest who xxx was, I would want a reason. The questions were not to defend Trans, they were to sort Dunn.
I will make an exception when xxx has just done something that I find scummy, but in that case I'll usually explain myself while still asking the other(s) to see if they are using the same reasoning.

Are you saying you found literally nothing scummy about Trans' entrance...?

Have you played with him before?

I didn't notice anything, haven't played with him before. Was trying to ask exactly what was allegedly noticed, preferably with a quote and analysis of why it's scummy.

[davesaz]

To Umlauut: This post was a reply to LQ, but the topic of the post was Dunn. I think you may have missed that aspect of it?
Trimming my reply to the point I think you're trying to make.

Why would Dunn panic so easily?

Let the record show dave never answered this.

Let the record show that I didn't notice it.
Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. Also note the "and others".

Why didn't you notice it? Sometimes who does what? "and others" I was asking you not others.

4. Why are you taking such an interest in an exchange that doesn't affect you? (I think I know the answer and I'm not scumreading you atm, but still interested in what you actually say)

It appears to me that this post was interpreted as "throwing shade" on LQ (and Ranger which I snipped).
If you look more closely I was trying to get confirmation from LQ, in his own words, that the things that I was seeing and interpreting as town were indeed from town motivation. The way that someone answers a why question can be extremely revealing.

The Ranger part of that post was to warn people that Ranger is quite skilled at

looking

town and it can cause big problems if you form a read on her too early.

[davesaz]

I think I quoted the wrong post...

[davesaz]

i feel like if you were scum you'd probably make more of a push on dave than you did here. i think your fos here is justified, i think you should've thrown a vote his way or something, but it is what it is.

I often see scum do a dance around people just like what LQ did. Cast a little suspicion, wait till someone agrees, then sheep the case the other person makes.
The followup dialogue with LQ makes me doubt he's scum, but still got my eye on him.

Transcend is making an accusation against LQ, that he didn't push me hard enough. I reply that scum do that,

but I don't think it was scum motivated in this case

.
It really helps to read and understand the whole context, and not try to pick out individual pieces. Don't feel bad if you read this the wrong way though, at least 2 got it wrong.

[Ümläüt]

So what do you actually think of LQ then?

[davesaz]

TBH I'd need to look at the posts between then and now. Back then it was really weak town.

[Ümläüt]

Ew at Transcend posting "I'm busy" like instantly after I said "He might be busy."

-----

To Umlauut: This post was a reply to LQ, but the topic of the post was Dunn. I think you may have missed that aspect of it?

It was nominally about Dunn but you didn't actually write about Dunn. You parked your vote on him 23 pages ago but you haven't actually made any sort of case against him, and when you're asked about your case on him you just talk about your playstyle.

Trimming my reply to the point I think you're trying to make.

Why would Dunn panic so easily?

Let the record show dave never answered this.

Let the record show that I didn't notice it.
Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. Also note the "and others".

Why didn't you notice it? Sometimes who does what? "and others" I was asking you not others.

4. Why are you taking such an interest in an exchange that doesn't affect you? (I think I know the answer and I'm not scumreading you atm, but still interested in what you actually say)

It appears to me that this post was interpreted as "throwing shade" on LQ (and Ranger which I snipped).
If you look more closely I was trying to get confirmation from LQ, in his own words, that the things that I was seeing and interpreting as town were indeed from town motivation. The way that someone answers a why question can be extremely revealing.

But like

no one thought that was scummy except you

You don't have to defend him from an accusation no one is making

The only reason to even bring that up is so you can say "I don't think it's that scummy" and look like you're trying to sort him.

TBH I'd need to look at the posts between then and now. Back then it was really weak town.

Way to keep your eye on him!

[Ümläüt]

Wait, I quoted the wrong post too

i feel like if you were scum you'd probably make more of a push on dave than you did here. i think your fos here is justified, i think you should've thrown a vote his way or something, but it is what it is.

I often see scum do a dance around people just like what LQ did. Cast a little suspicion, wait till someone agrees, then sheep the case the other person makes.
The followup dialogue with LQ makes me doubt he's scum, but still got my eye on him.

Transcend is making an accusation against LQ, that he didn't push me hard enough. I reply that scum do that,

but I don't think it was scum motivated in this case

.

This is what no one thought was scummy or needed defending except you. Transcend didn't accuse him, he literally said "I don't see scum doing what you're doing."

Btw:

It really helps to read and understand the whole context, and not try to pick out individual pieces. Don't feel bad if you read this the wrong way though, at least 2 got it wrong.

I'm not usually bothered by what people call patronizing in Mafia games. Making fun of people isn't patronizing.

This

is patronizing. It implies Davesaz thinks he's in a position to give me advice on scumreading, or he wants me to think that.

[davesaz]

Which alignment needs to hide what they do? Which alignment can afford to be totally open? I'm being open...

Are you town for tunneling on it, or scum for ignoring the clear signs in the followup conversation?

[Zachstralkita]

Which alignment needs to hide what they do? Which alignment can afford to be totally open? I'm being open...

Are you town for tunneling on it, or scum for ignoring the clear signs in the followup conversation?

Except you shouldn't be able to tell because someone can read "open" while still hiding a

lot

.

[Ümläüt]

Which alignment needs to hide what they do? Which alignment can afford to be totally open? I'm being open...

Are you town for tunneling on it, or scum for ignoring the clear signs in the followup conversation?

What are you even talking about

Why am I supposed to think you're being open and what does that have to do with anything?

[LicketyQuickety]

Moar votes on dav plz.

[Ümläüt]

Still scumreading Ira as well. His 'reads' come out of thin air and make no sense, yet correlate highly with lynchability. He scumreads Dunn, the easiest target in the game. His case on Farmer is incredibly fake and I can't imagine he believes it himself but it comes right when others are scumreading Farmer; it's like he picked the target and then tried to come up with reasoning for it. All of his posts just seem like "LOOK I'M CONTRIBUTING" without any actual analysis or sign that he cares if anyone believes him or not. He looks exactly like scum that has no idea how to fake scumhunting.

[Zachstralkita]

Still scumreading Ira as well. His 'reads' come out of thin air and make no sense, yet correlate highly with lynchability. He scumreads Dunn, the easiest target in the game.

This comes apart when you realize he scumreads Bins as well. It seems you're being the opportunistic one here.

[LicketyQuickety]

Still scumreading Ira as well. His 'reads' come out of thin air and make no sense, yet correlate highly with lynchability. He scumreads Dunn, the easiest target in the game.

This comes apart when you realize he scumreads Bins as well. It seems you're being the opportunistic one here.

this is pre-flip.. which is bad.

[Zachstralkita]

Still scumreading Ira as well. His 'reads' come out of thin air and make no sense, yet correlate highly with lynchability. He scumreads Dunn, the easiest target in the game.

This comes apart when you realize he scumreads Bins as well. It seems you're being the opportunistic one here.

this is pre-flip.. which is bad.

My point is Bins does not correlate with lynchability. By any means.

Also Riddleton still very probably scum

[Dunnstral]

He scumreads Dunn, the easiest target in the game.

Oh I'm far from being an easy target

[Ümläüt]

This comes apart when you realize he scumreads Bins as well. It seems you're being the opportunistic one here.

This is really nitpicky. I said "highly correlated," not "every single scumread he makes is about lynchability."

Besides, he's not even scumreading Bins. He did for like a minute and then dropped it immediately.

[Ümläüt]

Wait, wasn't Bins actually being questioned pretty hard at the time Ira came into the game?

*read*

Yes, yes she was.

Now Ranger is a scumread of Ira's that

actually

doesn't fit the pattern (though it still fits the pattern of not making any sense).

[Dunnstral]

Still scumreading Ira as well. His 'reads' come out of thin air and make no sense, yet correlate highly with lynchability. He scumreads Dunn, the easiest target in the game.

This comes apart when you realize he scumreads Bins as well. It seems you're being the opportunistic one here.

this is pre-flip.. which is bad.

My point is Bins does not correlate with lynchability. By any means.

Also Riddleton still very probably scum

I disagree Bins seems to have drawn the lynch attention

[LicketyQuickety]

I really like how Ümläüt is pushing the game forward.

[Bins]

Gonna post tomorrow. Been swamped.

[a plain farmer]

@Umlaut: I get a sense you're tunneling on dave. For instance, 92 looks just fine to me considering the stage of the game we were in, and I feel like you're over-emphasizing minutiae in 658, 659, and 662.

To the degree that I'm worried about dave (which is not a whole lot- I'd put him at a town-lean), it's because his posts contain a high degree of IIOA.