Mini 1804: Poker Mafia (Game Over)

[Alchemist21]

♠ ♡ VOTECOUNT 1.3 ♢ ♣

lane (3):

Persivul, The MM, magnaofillusion

Something Smart (2):

Something Smart, BBT

BBT (1):

qubixes

Infinity (1):

Infinity

RC (1):

lane

Not Voting (3):

Kappy, FA_Q2, RedCoyote

With 11 Votes, it takes 6 to Lynch.
Deadline

: (expired on 2016-07-05 12:30:00)

The current pot is $1170
The amount to call is $495

[Persivul]

Eww. Earning money is not necessarily part of your wincon. Although I think that 42 is an awfully big leap to take.

I'm sure scum had pre-game talk, I've never seen a game where they didn't.

Money buys PRs. The top tier in particular is sweet for scum. But note that after a PR is bought once, it's off the market. So, scum have incentive to go after 2 and 3 as well. The lowest one is pretty meh.

[Something_Smart]

I was "eww"-ing at Lane because money is not necessarily part of the town wincon. It's much closer for scum, although the fact that it's always public how much money a person has earned makes it that much harder for them.

[lane0168]

@magna. I'm not sure I understand the question. I didn't want to consolidate money into anyone's hands but my own. I didn't expect anyone to call. I want money to get the benefits of getting money. So why am I scummy again?

[lane0168]

{quibixes, MoI}
{s_s, lane}
{mm, persivul}
{infinity}

I like s_s's plan, you could threaten to hammer the person if people refuse to switch.

I wouldn't get off a lynch that I was pushing for the chance of a scum person taking my spot. That's ridiculous. If you think a person in the wagon is scum, then they should be the wagon. Terrible plan

[Alchemist21]

All the votecounts now have the deadline timers in 'em.

[lane0168]

I won't win lol

So why did you bet all your money?

Could be scum dumping money to each other so they can buy out one of the bigger PRs early.

mod, did scum have pre-game talk? Do they have day talk?

A mislynch to verify this being completely false isn't the worst way to start out the game. However you'll change your mind on due time

[lane0168]

And even if that was my plan to give my money away, magna, chances are it goes to town.

[Persivul]

And even if that was my plan to give my money away, magna, chances are it goes to town.

Unless your scum buddy told you he had a strong hand.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@magna. I'm not sure I understand the question. I didn't want to consolidate money into anyone's hands but my own. I didn't expect anyone to call. I want money to get the benefits of getting money. So why am I scummy again?

I find it suspect that you just assumed an immediate All-In would not possibly get called. Especially given you told Pers "I'm not going to win". If anyone calls then odds are overwhelming that one person ends up with $1,000 plus in their bankroll immediately. Which if they are scum is not good for Town.

I could certainly see a pre-game scenario where it was decided to try to consolidate money on one scum via an All-in and scum counterclaim.

[Persivul]

mod, when we get to a showdown, I assume all hands involved are shown. Is this correct?

[The MM]

And even if that was my plan to give my money away, magna, chances are it goes to town.

Unless your scum buddy told you he had a strong hand.

This is the only option that has a hint of credibility to me. Honestly, town wouldn't give away their monies at random like that.

@magna. I'm not sure I understand the question. I didn't want to consolidate money into anyone's hands but my own. I didn't expect anyone to call. I want money to get the benefits of getting money. So why am I scummy again?

I find it suspect that you just assumed an immediate All-In would not possibly get called. Especially given you told Pers "I'm not going to win". If anyone calls then odds are overwhelming that one person ends up with $1,000 plus in their bankroll immediately. Which if they are scum is not good for Town.
I could certainly see a pre-game scenario where it was decided to try to consolidate money on one scum via an All-in and scum counterclaim.

Given the abilities in play, Scum would LOVE to get these 1250$ abilities. Especially a Vengeful since they get to one-shot a Townie for free, meaning scum don't really lose momentum from it.

TL;DR Version: Lane, you just made the scummiest move so far, and not just because it's the only big one.

[RedCoyote]

Do you guys think it's worth it to, once we decide on who to lynch, force the scummy players on the wagon to get off and replace them with towny players in order to keep the most possible money in the hands of the town?

This sounds reasonable, but I think it will lead to too much argumentation. "I think X is the scummiest, he should leave." "No, Y is definitely scummier. Get her off first." etc

What MoI said in 19.

---

{quibixes, MoI}
{s_s, lane}
{mm, persivul}
{infinity}

I like s_s's plan, you could threaten to hammer the person if people refuse to switch.

You can threat all you want, but you need to carry weight behind said threat. Otherwise, it's meaningless. I'm not committing to voting anyone over something like this.

---

Wow, so on a scale of 1-10, how good are y'all at poker?

5? I know how to play and have played some. I don't gamble much on it though aside from the occasional video poker game.

The concept of this game sounds really interesting though.

Secondly, it may be in towns interests to play as many hands as possible to build up money.

Could you elaborate on this? Odds are this will occur naturally if I'm understanding you correctly.

---

Could be scum dumping money to each other so they can buy out one of the bigger PRs early.

I really like this question and thought process. I hadn't considered any money shenanigans, but it makes sense that the scum may want to pool their money together under one person if they can, especially given how everything costs more than $500.

Does this necessarily point to lane as scum though? I'm thinking no. lane strikes me as the impulsive type. I don't get the feeling that his bet was part of a gambit, but it's something to still consider going forward.

---

So Lane … why did you think concentrating money in someone’s hands (which this bet was more likely than not to accomplish) is a Pro Town move?

Not to speak for lane, but, regardless of alignment, a player is going to have to accumulate considerable funds to afford any of the powers.

---

A mislynch to verify this being completely false isn't the worst way to start out the game. However you'll change your mind on due time

This is anti-town.

---

I'm electing not to vote at this time.

Fold

... are we going in any specific order? I didn't see anything about this in the rules. If not, should the town organize a makeshift order of players so that the scum cannot act in unison to their advantage? We could use dice tags to keep it random.

Mod

, could you put the numerical amount of votes each player has in your VCs? I know I can count them myself, but I'm lazy. Additionally, I think it would be helpful for everyone if you kept track of who's in/out, who called/bet and what, etc. Perhaps in a separate area tag under the VC? Just a suggestion. It would definitely help the game run smoother if we had all the updated info at a glance.

[Infinity 324]

Pedit: infinity are you copying ranger? if so why are you at the bottom?

Yes, I wanted to see how people would react.

{quibixes, MoI}
{s_s, lane}
{mm, persivul}
{infinity}

I like s_s's plan, you could threaten to hammer the person if people refuse to switch.

I wouldn't get off a lynch that I was pushing for the chance of a scum person taking my spot. That's ridiculous. If you think a person in the wagon is scum, then they should be the wagon. Terrible plan

We still want players that are more likely to be town to get more money...

I won't win lol

So why did you bet all your money?

Could be scum dumping money to each other so they can buy out one of the bigger PRs early.

mod, did scum have pre-game talk? Do they have day talk?

A mislynch to verify this being completely false isn't the worst way to start out the game. However you'll change your mind on due time

Forced line (though it's worth mentioning that town afraid of getting lynched can often come off as forced)

And even if that was my plan to give my money away, magna, chances are it goes to town.

Unless your scum buddy told you he had a strong hand.

This is the only option that has a hint of credibility to me. Honestly, town wouldn't give away their monies at random like that.

@magna. I'm not sure I understand the question. I didn't want to consolidate money into anyone's hands but my own. I didn't expect anyone to call. I want money to get the benefits of getting money. So why am I scummy again?

I find it suspect that you just assumed an immediate All-In would not possibly get called. Especially given you told Pers "I'm not going to win". If anyone calls then odds are overwhelming that one person ends up with $1,000 plus in their bankroll immediately. Which if they are scum is not good for Town.
I could certainly see a pre-game scenario where it was decided to try to consolidate money on one scum via an All-in and scum counterclaim.

Given the abilities in play, Scum would LOVE to get these 1250$ abilities. Especially a Vengeful since they get to one-shot a Townie for free, meaning scum don't really lose momentum from it.

TL;DR Version: Lane, you just made the scummiest move so far, and not just because it's the only big one.

This is even more forced, and doesn't add anything new to the discussion. I like this vote better.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: the mm

{quibixes, MoI}
{s_s, lane}
{mm, persivul}
{infinity}

I like s_s's plan, you could threaten to hammer the person if people refuse to switch.

You can threat all you want, but you need to carry weight behind said threat. Otherwise, it's meaningless. I'm not committing to voting anyone over something like this.

Then you would just hammer if people refused to switch, you wouldn't really lose anything.

I really like this question and thought process. I hadn't considered any money shenanigans, but it makes sense that the scum may want to pool their money together under one person if they can, especially given how everything costs more than $500.

Does this necessarily point to lane as scum though? I'm thinking no. lane strikes me as the impulsive type. I don't get the feeling that his bet was part of a gambit, but it's something to still consider going forward.

I agree with this, lane looks impulsive and a little selfish but almost too obviously so to be scum.

I'm electing not to vote at this time.

Any reason for this?

So an actual reads list:

RedCoyote - null: I liked how he picked up on the lane thing, but some of what he said is kinda filler.
s_s - town: He seems to be genuinely trying to figure stuff out.
persivul - null lean town: gut
MoI - null lean town: gut
lane - town: gut, plus he's being bold and open with his thoughts
mm - scum: Posts feel forced and I didn't like 61

[lane0168]

Yes, rc. Hugely in favor of randomizing the order like it should be.

Thankfully if you guys think it's a huge gambit and I'm partners with the mm then you guys can lynch whoever wins this hand.

I'm going to move on and go find scum

[Infinity 324]

Meanwhile your RVS vote is still on rc.

Do you have any reads yet?

[Infinity 324]

Fold

[lane0168]

A couple things have stood out to me that I need to look at and think about and then put them into words if they are relevant. For one, I was thinking mm seemed town, until you thought they seemed forced so that's one thing I'll revisit

[Infinity 324]

I thought his posts seemed forced, and I thought 61 in particular didn't add anything to the discussion. He agreed with something someone else said, stated the obvious, and pointed out that your raise was scummy when other people had already done the same thing. Seems like kinda trying to look busy.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Secondly, it may be in towns interests to play as many hands as possible to build up money. If you're town and you're bad at poker you should probably say so.

RC's post made me take second look at this -

BBT

- given this is a zero scum game (no individual money flows in aside from the starting pool of $5,500 as far as we know per the rules) what was your thinking behind this suggestion?

[Infinity 324]

zero scum game

lol

What did you think about RC's post in terms of his alignment?

[Alchemist21]

mod, when we get to a showdown, I assume all hands involved are shown. Is this correct?

That's right, partner.

[Alchemist21]

62: Yes, starting with the next VC I'll include who's in/out and numbers of votes. Also there is no specific order for betting since I thought it would make the whole process smoother (as in everyone else wouldn't have to wait on 1 person who might have a different posting schedule before they could decide what they wanted to do).

[Alchemist21]

♠ ♡ VOTECOUNT 1.4 ♢ ♣

lane (3):

Persivul, The MM, magnaofillusion

Something Smart (2):

Something Smart, BBT

BBT (1):

qubixes

MM (1):

Infinity

RC (1):

lane

Not Voting (3):

Kappy, FA_Q2, RedCoyote

With 11 Votes, it takes 6 to Lynch.
Deadline

: (expired on 2016-07-05 12:30:00)

The current pot is $1170
The amount to call is $495

Still in the Hand: Kappy, lane, FA_Q2, MM

Spoiler: Betting History

Bet orders:
Ante
Magna bets $25
MM raises to $50
qubixes folds
something smart folds
Infinity raises to $100
persivul folds
lane raises to $495
BBT folds
MM calls
Magna folds
RC folds
Infinity folds

Kappy and FA must submit an action.

[FA_Q2]

@magna. I'm not sure I understand the question. I didn't want to consolidate money into anyone's hands but my own. I didn't expect anyone to call. I want money to get the benefits of getting money. So why am I scummy again?

I find it suspect that you just assumed an immediate All-In would not possibly get called. Especially given you told Pers "I'm not going to win". If anyone calls then odds are overwhelming that one person ends up with $1,000 plus in their bankroll immediately. Which if they are scum is not good for Town.

I could certainly see a pre-game scenario where it was decided to try to consolidate money on one scum via an All-in and scum counterclaim.

Agree.

This move by lane is pretty scummy. I think that we need to see the hands though to make that call. The statement:

Because I didn't think anybody would call. I was wrong

may very well be a lie to get some more players to put their money in. I certainly think it is asinine to all in on a 13 player card game and expect no one to call you. There are to many players at the table to go hard without the hand to back it up. If he has a shit hand then he very well could be trying to shift his money over to another scum.

Fold