Newbie 1723 - Game Over!

[thenewearth]

I'm ignoring it.

[Skold]

Okay I'll be honest I did try reading those games and just found it too difficult for me to be bothered with. Jesus why does anybody play mafia anywhere else, this place is so purpose built. No ISO, no spoiler tags for results to check at the start. But what I did manage to see was Vecna does this as town. This is what seems to be a more extreme version is a less gung-ho mafia forum and I still think it's one hundred percent anti-town. And if I didn't know that Vecna did this as town I would still be voting for him and would lynch this in the future. But if it a isn't a tell given his meta, it isn't a tell.

Unvote:

Don't like how he handled Franky or that he actually doesn't have a case on TNE. But it seems like a genuine project gone wrong situation. I'm going to take a moment to decide if I still find him scum without the sheep noises tell but with Franky and TNE interactions.
pedit:
@rb If this goes to the last 24 hours shit can happen. It's a thing that should be worried about.
@franky - I misread rb not voting Vecna as him accepting his stuff. Also that's to parabola, nacho and e_is_cool who haven't talked about this in case they believe him. And that is a defence of Vecna. Either own it or don't but this random distancing is weird. Thoughts of Franky - Vecna scumbuddy grow stronger in spite of reaction tell that isn't a tell.
pedit TNE: No you're not or I'll join that wagon. Be a good girl and answer the questions. We're playing some mafiascum today.

[rb]

Tbh the problem I have with it is that Vecna supplied examples of Town games and no scum games. Who's to say he doesn't pull this shit as both Town AND scum?

Concerns the fuck out of me that you don't even consider that Skold.

VOTE: Skold

[Skold]

Also the fact youre discrediting my reads just because "I have no clue?" What are you basing that on

That's shorthand for ''you're reads are stupid'' which is shorthand for ''They are based on testing our reaction to a thing that is generally regarded on mafiascum to be scummy and thus will always return a 'you're scummy' result.''.
pedit: Sure why not. But that he does do it in at least some town games means I won't use it as a scumtell. What can I do with that information? Ask him for his 10 most recent games he's used it in and compare? But that doesn't work because if it's something he does every game then that'll be town-lopsided. Or he could lie and I'd have no way of checking. Now if I townread him for it that'd be one thing but it's a nulltell on the reaction test and a scumlean on his interactions with TNE and Franky.

[Skold]

you're reads are stupid. You're reads are stupid. You'REEEEEEEEEEEEEE. YOU ARE READS ARE STUPID. THIS IS WHAT YOU GUYS DO TO ME.

[Franky]

@Skold: are you going to pretend you didn't notice until this very moment that Earth haven't been answering ANY questions since beginning of game? Is it a coincidence that you only started addressing this after I asked you why you didn't notice earth has been acting scummy? Why did you avoid answering that question yourself when you're going to join earth's wagon for not answering question btw?

[Skold]

@Skold: are you going to pretend you didn't notice until this very moment that Earth haven't been answering ANY questions since beginning of game? Is it a coincidence that you only started addressing this after I asked you why you didn't notice earth has been acting scummy? Why did you avoid answering that question yourself when you're going to join earth's wagon for not answering question btw?

Just took a cheeky wee tour of your ISO. None of those were worth answering. Probably slipped into the back of my mind because those weren't questions actually worth bothering with. ''Does RQS have to be scum or town'' - why would anybody waste time with this. Especially after an IC wall on the theory of RQS. I could go through all of these but these questions weren't directed at me. Satisfied?

[Franky]

If your opinion is that she isn't acting scummy, why did you ignore my question about that fact instead of criticizing the reasons I have for voting her, which I've also been displaying since the beginning of D1? Forget the beginning of D1, why aren't you scumhunting me like your life depends on it right now?

And let's suppose for a second that you know for a fact my questions have no value, which you don't btw because only I know why I asked any question, why are you ignoring all the questions earth ignored that aren't in my ISO? Which part of my posts gave you the impression that I'm only scum reading her for avoiding to answer my own questions?

And why would you interpret "Does RQS have to be scum or town" as anything other than a rhetorical way of showing the flaw in earth's reasoning about e_is_cool?

Why did you have no issues with earth trying to frame e_is_cool in the beginning by deliberately ignoring the subtleties of everyone's criticism of her read on him? Like seriously, you're the only one mate.

[rb]

If your opinion is that she isn't acting scummy, why did you ignore my question about that fact instead of criticizing the reasons I have for voting her, which I've also been displaying since the beginning of D1? Forget the beginning of D1, why aren't you scumhunting me like your life depends on it right now?

And let's suppose for a second that you know for a fact my questions have no value, which you don't btw because only I know why I asked any question, why are you ignoring all the questions earth ignored that aren't in my ISO? Which part of my posts gave you the impression that I'm only scum reading her for avoiding to answer my own questions?

And why would you interpret "Does RQS have to be scum or town" as anything other than a rhetorical way of showing the flaw in earth's reasoning about e_is_cool?

Why did you have no issues with earth trying to frame e_is_cool in the beginning by deliberately ignoring the subtleties of everyone's criticism of her read on him? Like seriously, you're the only one mate.

Wait, why are you suddenly defending e_is_cool?

[Franky]

I'm not. I'm referencing the fact that I defended him in the beginning against earth.

[rb]

I guess I wasn't here in the beginning but looking at e_is_cool's ISO...how would you townread them so hard that you'd defend them anyway?

[Franky]

I see Offense/Defense as a tool to be used to scumhunt, not just a position to take because of reads. My read on him was null, and my read on his attacker (earth) was that I needed to put some pressure to verify the validity of her read on him. It's hard to attack someone for having a bs read without defending the player they had the read on.

[rb]

On re-read: in 288 Earth actually said we

don't

need to lynch Vecna today because he's playing as lynchbait. It was Skold + myself who were pushing for a Vecna lynch and at the time there was only like 4 people posting in total in the thread and no-lynch looked like a serious possibility.

So I don't dig Earth as being the opportunist she's being painted as here.

[Skold]

1. Never said she wasn't scummy, said your case sucked 2. I am scumreading you because you've shown weird interactions with Vecna (I'll quote below in a second) and because this case is really bad. 3. Because I only read your ISO because I'm not here to dismantle your case on TNE I'm here to decide if it's scummy 4. Never said that 5. IDK why it's a bad question, it's a bad question. And most of your questions read like they're impossible to be answered because they read like they don't fit in this thread. 6. I do have problems with TNE's argument against e_is_cool. I made my own case, read my ISO or don't even talk about what my stances are.
Overall: WHERE ARE YOU GETTING THIS? WHAT THE ACTUAL CRAP FRANKY? Like seriously, why do you think TNE didn't answer these questions? Because of my post here. I'm not responding to you anymore this is stupid.
pedit: That seems reasonable.

[rb]

Franky, who are your top3 scumreads and who do you want to lynch?

[Franky]

My scumreads are:

1) Earth
2) Skold/Vecna/Parabola

I want to lynch Earth, if that wasn't already clear.

[rb]

Not really sure what to think of the fact that your scumreads are exactly the same as mine tbh.

[Franky]

Why are you scumreading parabola?

[rb]

I posted back earlier but he was townreading me for some reason I couldn't properly fathom, can't remember where it was.

I said in 279 as well that I don't like how he asks me what I'll think of what he asks me. Why doesn't he just ask/tell me what he means? Also I don't really like his vote on Skold after I started suspicion on him, then Harry agreed with me earlier in 179. But maybe Harry's the one I should suspect over Parabola here.

Going to have to re-read both Harry and Errant at this point I think.

[rb]

I get the feeling my scumreads are going to change with the extra game activity and a re-read tbh because then I'll be less blindsided by this stupid Vecna event. It's 5am and I've been up all night, so I'm going to get off and re-read tomorrow.

[e_is_cool]

I'm reading from Vecna's first non-sheep post.

Okay, I don't see why any scum would do what Vecna did (ug stupid WIFOM), so I'm townreading Vecna.

If you're town Vecna here is what you have done 1. Guarantee your lynch.

You are dying today. This is happening.

2. Waste a day for town 3. Discredit all reads you have because regardless of whether they come from a town perspective they would come from a town perspective with no bloody clue.

Seems almost similar to what TNE said with her vote on me and saying she'll not change it.

Also the problem is you've played 90% of this game scummy, then when you're pretty much set as the lynch for the day you suddenly start town-telling with quality posting.

It's not hard for scum to do this.

You haven't given a consistent track-record of townie-posts, keep it up for another day or two and I'll see about my vote because you're making sense and this is the Vecna i WANTED to paly with from the start.

It might not be hard for scum to do this, but I still don't know why exactly scum would do this.

You do realize you were a lynch target for:

1) Having all those crappy bzaispdnioawndoiawbn posts
2) You were a great lynchbait
3) It was almost a policy lynch for inactivity

2/3 don't sit well with me as "Reasons to lynch somebody"

You vote Vecna and your only reason is his crappy posts? He started making good posts and you ignore them and say lynch this person.

Skold and TNE are pretty suspicious, so I'll just VOTE: thenewearth.

[Franky]

Actually, after rereading Skold's ISO as he recommended, I think I'll be reevaluating my read of him. I got carried away with the line of questioning about earth's scum potential before rereading the entire thread.

[Vecna]

Tbh the problem I have with it is that Vecna supplied examples of Town games and no scum games. Who's to say he doesn't pull this shit as both Town AND scum?

Concerns the fuck out of me that you don't even consider that Skold.

VOTE: Skold

RB - you are right I supplied examples of town games, but youre somewhat wrong about my intention.

As I stated in that post, I did so to once and for all shut down the argument that what I did can have NO MERIT to town, -ever-.

-WHICH IS BULLSHIT-

Its a very decent scumhunting mechanism, and it can provide very adequate results. That is all I wanted to show with the links. Dont construe it as anything else, since that is indeed just weak wifom.

I also played three games on that site as scum, and I did not use any similair tactics in those. Does that prove anything? Absolutely not, since it was role madness, reverse mafia, and my very first game of forum mafia ever. I can link them if youre really desperate to compare them, but its useless anyways. Dont use those games to draw the conclusion " he did it as town then, he must be town now ". Use them and think "ok, so it can have very usefull results as town, clearly it does not automatically have to be seen as anti-town".

[Vecna]

As for those people stating I did not provide a case against TNE, I did! apparently I didnt phrase it quite simply enough for people to get the point I was making.

Check his ISO to see why im stating this, I cba finding post numbers again.

-START OF GAME: only tunneling on E_cool.
-Mid day1 (AFTER MY SHEEP SHIT): "Vecna is only lynch bait, no priority, bad lynch -> Lynch one of these other 3 scum candidates"
-Late day1: Without me even typing in the thread WHATSOEVER after his mid day1 statement -> Vecna is top scum, must lynch.
-After I start contributing: Refusal to answer any questions or attempting to counter my statements, capslock typing, selfvoting, complete tunnel on me with the only reason suddenly being the sheepshit. (which he called a bad lynch himself earlier).


Notice also, I DO NOT SCUMREAD PEOPLE JUST FOR VOTING ME.

I look at the reasons provided, the logic supplied, the -proces- of coming to their decision to vote for me. This is where you can recognize scum (when done propely), notice for example that I have a strong townread on RD, who also wanted to lynch me badly.

[Vecna]

In my earlier post, I explained why exactly I think the change of behaviour is very properly explained by a scum allignment.

You know all too well how powerfull it can be to distance yourself from a lynch as scum RD, which is what I think she tried to do. When the lynch was not going through quite so easily yet she joined in, for the exact same reasons stated earlier that made me a bad lynch. When called out on it, she goes into a frenzy and well.....

Anyways im going to stop with the investigation into TNE for now and focus on other crap. Ive made my case, ill keep pushing it, ill answer questions about it - now its time to find the other scum.