Newbie 1723 - Game Over!

[Skold]

Just throwing my thoughts on this game at the wall.
Keeping DirtyHarry as town today. Don't like what Vecna did except for the fact that he's cleared as town in my mind. Aside from maybe WIFOM strategy which isn't good for scum because it leaves them 50/50 I don't see a point in scum doing what Vecna did. Leaves me with Franky, Parabola, Nacho and E. Parabola Nacho and E barely posted last day and when they did it was a hurried catch up post or a promise of one. I'd think they just lost control of the game except for the fact that it was fairly paced and easy to keep up with. ISO scans of each to follow.

[Skold]

@Nacho why was your vote on Vecna? Did you not buy him saying it was a reaction test, why do you think scumVecna would do this and in general, ''what gives, explain yourselves''. You said you'd do a catchup specifically on Vecna so I'm interested to see if you still think he's scum.

[Dirty Harry2]

VOTE: e_is_cool

Why?

A question for me?




I have questions for you:
Will this be your only motivation to post/contribute (when you are voted/there is pressure on your slot)?
Why aren't you trying to find scum?
Why aren't you trying to find town?
Where are your thoughts from D1?
What do you feel/think about me orchestrating thenewearth's lynch but never voting?
What do you think of the quickhammer?

I am not convinced.
I don't want you to tell me why you are town.

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho and Parabola, I want to hear from both of you - You both stated you were back at the last day of D1. Both of you stated you were catching up and would respond, yet neither of you participated at all, didnt write a single other msg (except for the one fluff piece from parabola), and neither of you took part in the vote whatsoever.

What gives, explain yourselves.

I think you're missing context here - Franky ended up quick hammering before I had the chance to catch up properly.

[Nachomamma8]

@Nacho why was your vote on Vecna? Did you not buy him saying it was a reaction test, why do you think scumVecna would do this and in general, ''what gives, explain yourselves''. You said you'd do a catchup specifically on Vecna so I'm interested to see if you still think he's scum.

I haven't done much more than skim through his posts but he does look quite a bit townier than he did before.

[Dirty Harry2]

Nacho and Parabola, I want to hear from both of you

Agreed.

VOTE: Thenewearth

I'm parking my vote in case I fall asleep.

Bad hammer - but it was where we were going anyway.
His sword or mine, thenewearth was going to be slain D1.
The Vecna wagon was dead.
Competing with no counter wagon.

Day 1 VC #9 (LYNCH)]Vecna (2) - Nacho, Earth
e_is_cool (0) -
Harry (0) -
Skold (1) - Parabola
Franky (0) -
rb (0) -
Parabola (0) -

Earth (5) (L-0) - Vecna, E_is_cool, Skold, Rb, Franky

Nacho (0) -
Not Voting (1) - Harry

Suspicion:
Do you think both mafia was on thenewearth's wagon?
One or none?
Due to the lack of activity around deadline it is hard to gauge the momentum of the miss-lynch.
All we know is that scum were happy not to create a counter wagon.
Theory:
At least 1 player who lurked out the deadline is scum.

At any rate, I still stand by my statement that todays focus should start with E_is_cool, nacho and ebola.

I want to re-read Skold too:

I can remember him defending thenewearth, RE: scum-slip episode.
Plus, Frank and rb had some strong words on him.

[Skold]

I can remember him defending thenewearth

Just Franky's argument. TNE was pretty condemned.

[Skold]

before I had the chance to catch up properly.

Nacho we had delayed forever. If you hadn't caught up that's on you.

[Dirty Harry2]

Skold - thoughts on the momentum of the newearth wagon/miss-lynch?

Who are the heroes/villains/peripheral players?

[Dirty Harry2]

Oh wow there's another Clint Eastwood avatar guy! Cool!

This Town's not big enough for the both of us!

You were right.
Unfortunately mafia thought so too.

Reading rb's ISO later.

[Dirty Harry2]

Parabola.

Suspicion:
D1 ISO is game-theory heavy.
Light on pro-active pushing of players.
Strong scum read of Skold on D1 evident...
...but not online to push/reinforce/argue that scum-read of Skold at deadline.

Theory:
Happy to see thenewearth be lynched.

[Vecna]

@Nacho why was your vote on Vecna? Did you not buy him saying it was a reaction test, why do you think scumVecna would do this and in general, ''what gives, explain yourselves''. You said you'd do a catchup specifically on Vecna so I'm interested to see if you still think he's scum.

I haven't done much more than skim through his posts but he does look quite a bit townier than he did before.

Not fucking good enough, nowhere ever near it.

My strong suspicion is youre just scum trying to ride it out. Your EOD participation is rubbish. You couldve done a "skim" through my posts at EOD as well in the time it took you to write that post where you claimed to come back. However you didnt and your vote stayed on me.

In fact, reading through your posts all you've contributed so far this game is a bunch of IC comments and strategy talk.

NOTHING else

I want to see your thoughts of the game and of the people in it. Youre not giving us anywhere near enough information to ascertain whether youre town or scum, so untill you do im just going to assume the latter.

VOTE: Nachomamma8

The same goes for you E and Ebola, and if you dont start participating ill hammer either of you three without any hesitation whatsoever.

[Dirty Harry2]

Agreed.

We have 3 players who fit the 'playing hard to read'/'disappeared at EoD' profile:
(Aka tactically neutral profiles)

Nacho
Parabola
E

I hope this changes in the next 48 hours.

2 town deaths.
Low D1 interactions.
Mass replacements.
Town leader died.

Let's solve this game D2.

[Ircher]

Day 2 VC #2

Vecna (0) -
e_is_cool (1) - Harry
Harry (0) -
Skold (0) -
Franky (0) -
Parabola (0) -
Nacho (1) - Vecna
Not Voting (5) - e_is_cool, Skold, Franky, Parabola, Nacho

Lynch Threshold

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch!

Deadline

Day 1 ends on August 2, 2016 5:30 PM EST DST+1 or in (expired on 2016-08-02 17:30:00).

Mod Notes

Mod will be V/LA from 7/25 to 7/29.
The initial threshold to lynch was incorrect (as I forgot to change it);

lynches occur at 4, NOT 5 votes today.

[Errantparabola]

Here's some thought vomit sorry it's messy and disorganized

VOTE: Skold

I'll iso skold later to make sure this is where I want to be.

My read on Dirty Harry went from town first half of D1 to less town second half of D1 and it's back up to pretty town

Nacho

you know that question I asked you about why you were ignoring e's Wifom accusation? I'm really sorry, but my notes don't actually make clear the intention behind that question. The only thing that my notes say is basically letting me in the future know that I was actually lying to you about being okay with you ignoring as town. But I don't know why I wasn't okay with it, so let's call it a wash because I can't figure it out going back and that probably means it's not a strong enough feeling to be important.

Skold

The reason I asked you the first three questions, Skold, is because the distinction between bad town and scum is the same distinction I felt about tne and also e and I was wondering why you didn't have the same concern because I saw similar kinds of play from both slots.

e

204 is a pretty interesting post, e. “Nacho is town for contributing” is a good indicator of how you think as town and how you think town should act. So why aren't you acting the same way?

Thoughts on the Vecna "test" is that I think it's town motivated off the gate but that's a weak read.
Let's look at Vecna's ISO!
Light townread on Nacho
Says unsure what TNE scumflip means for Skold alignment
Then says Skold is scum with TNE
Then says Nacho is in the lynchpool

Vecna

There's a lot more in your ISO, of course. But this is everything where it doesn't look like there is any context for
I'm fine with inconsistency, I get it. Town forgets how they stood earlier in the game which leads to inconsistency
But could you at least help me understand them?

Skold

alright Skold's recent ISO

I actually really like "I'm willing to lynch anyone" so #conflicted
And other than the posts that dot the ISO every so often that are contentless but make it seem like skold is doing something
his late D1 posts are actually pretty good?????????!?!?!?!

My inclination is actually to go VOTE: e is cool
I see that e early game makes comments that don't actually have barbs in them
Look at 26 it's a potshot that doesn't actually solve the game
Look at 82 it's a bad attack for one, and he doesn't actually push it
And yeah some other concerns that I think i've already voiced

NOTE THAT EVERYTHING ABOUT E IS ACTUALLY TAKEN FROM MY NOTES
SO I'M TRUSTING MY PAST SELF ON THIS

[Nachomamma8]

before I had the chance to catch up properly.

Nacho we had delayed forever. If you hadn't caught up that's on you.

This is unreasonable and a response that applies to Vecna as well.
If I knew that I only had three hours to catch up when I thought I had 7, then I would have caught up in three. Telling me that I should have somehow known that Franky would quickhammer and caught up in a shorter amount of time as a result is ???.

[Nachomamma8]

The only thing that my notes say is basically letting me in the future know that I was actually lying to you about being okay with you ignoring as town. But I don't know why I wasn't okay with it, so let's call it a wash because I can't figure it out going back and that probably means it's not a strong enough feeling to be important.

How would you have addressed it in my shoes?

[Nachomamma8]

I don't think you're scum, this just doesn't make sense from that kind of motivation to on the spot invent a new kind of silly read in order to push a bad lynch but I don't think this makes a single kind of sense.

Why were you townreading Parabola as of this post?

[Nachomamma8]

Alright I guess it is about time to put an end to my reaction test. although there finally has come some response to my playstyle in the last few pages, i'm still fairly disappointed by the overall response that it has gathered. Not a lot of thought or discussion went into any votes that were coming my way, although I guess with this type of baiting its somewhat understandable.

TLDR explanation as to "Vecna whyyyy": I like unusual strategies and I like to analyze the way people respond to it. In nearly all my games I play where I try this it usually results in some proper scum baiting and I get a lot better reads of the scum team as a result. I like to think I usually do a reasonable job in deducing the insincerity in people their votes, and separate the town motivated pressure from the scum looking for an easy lynch. Besides the reads, its usually a good tactic to avoid the NK since scum are less likely to NK a higher likelyhood lynch candidate. I do not like dying too much in these games, and living on the edge is usually the best way to avoid it.

It seems weird that you didn't actually get any significant conclusions from your reaction test; in your Earth case, you don't really analyze any of his intentions based on how he approached your wagon and I'm not really sure what type of things you would expect to get out of it. How, for example, do you analyze the intent behind a vote like mine? What do you think I do as scum? What do you think I do as town? How are townies more likely to approach your wagon? How are scum?

The explanation for your approach that makes the most sense to me is the idea that you're doing it so that you can delay your death a bit longer, even though this is a very unhealthy approach for a game in general; you seem like a capable enough player to understand why that's a bad approach, so why possess it?

[Nachomamma8]

Appears to be towny to me so far and trying to solve the game. Will be interesting to see how he responds to me suddenly posting after having had somewhat of a hardon for me so far.

Earlier you said you thought I looked like I was trying to solve the game.
Now that you say that my posting is all just IC blather.
What caused the change?

[Nachomamma8]

@RB after last game I have no faith in town players in these games to do the proper actions even if I spew out the correct reads. Last game I was also very close but noone listened regardless. What youre doing is very anti-town now yourself since youre pretty much stating im probably town, but youre spite-lynching me and risking the mislynch just because you dont approve of people doing anything but the standard boring crap.

Stating im an "idiot" just because you dont like certain strategies is shortsighted to say the least. At any rate my reads are probably far superior to any town player thinking theyre oh so awesome this game, and the methods always justify the means.

This looks pretty town though.

[Nachomamma8]

It amazes me though that your solution to this is, instead of being a strong player and using your perceptions and ability to read - you do a reaction test. Snore. The ends don't really justify the means because the game isn't about just finding the scum-team it's about being able to get people lynched.

And, yes, this is actually IC blather, but I very strongly agree with this.

If you are truly a strong town player, then you will find ways to work with any group; when people aren't seeing what you're seeing, then it means that there's an opportunity to improve the way that you approach the game and convince people of things, that maybe you can listen to people's points and actually refute them as a whole or maybe the reasons you're reading people aren't all that convincing and really it's just your gut's that's on and etc. Calling the town dumb is avoiding taking responsibility for weakness in your own play, and if you try to lean on reaction tests and gimmicks to make up for those weaknesses then there will always be that gaping hole in your play.

[Nachomamma8]

That is just THE SINGLE MOST IDIOTIC REACTION TEST I HAVE SEEN TO DATE

You know. The thing is. The reasons behind it are stupid

First of all, you waste half the fucking day shitposting NOT CONTRIBUTING ANYTHING BUT HUUURRRSS AND DUUURRRS and you "expect" that to be a reaction test? In what universe... And I heavily state, A KNOWN UNIVERSE is this actually a thing? Oh you know what? ITS THIS UNIVERSE COMPILED OF STUPID PEOPLE like you

Secondly, You literally just stopped doing it DURING L-1. AGAIN, WASTING HALF THE FUCKING DAY, LET 4 PLAYERS PLAY THE GAME WHEN YOU COULD HAVE BEEN THE ODD 5th TO END IT ALL.

Third, #322 is actually complete bullshit. He's misreping everything to a fault "After saying the stupidity was a reaction test". Guess what, IF YOU ACTUALLY DIDN'T BECOME THE EASIEST LYNCHBAIT IN MS HISTORY NONE OF THIS WOULD HAVE HAPPENED

And, for the record, this is what happens when you don't take responsibility for your own mistakes; can't say that this was a bad mislynch and certainly was not a wagon I would have avoided had I been fully caught up.

[Nachomamma8]

Vecna, do you prefer to be referred to as "it" or do are you okay with other pronouns?

[Nachomamma8]

Right so Vecna likes the unexplained vote on TNE from Franky, claims it was ''just a prank'' and scumreads TNE for being the most cautious to not act with his wagon and for being ''under the radar'' when in one of the most inactive games I have ever played she has been one of the few who give it some activity. If this is town play it may just be the most anti-town town play ever. If you're town Vecna here is what you have done 1. Guarantee your lynch. You are dying today. This is happening. 2. Waste a day for town 3. Discredit all reads you have because regardless of whether they come from a town perspective they would come from a town perspective with no bloody clue. I almost want to believe him. But I don't. These last minute reads, making the worst case possible against TNE and claiming it was a reaction test....no. I just don't buy it.

Vote: Vecna

L-1 N shit. Someone int to hammer this. I'm off for a couple hours don't lynch till I'm back.

First of all, Vecna liked the TNE vote from Franky. It also qualified that like with saying that the fact Franky's vote was unexplained weakened that like and scum leaving their vote on a partner like that was something that Vecna had seen in the past. It's case on TNE was also a hell of a lot more than her just being under the radar; Vecna picked up on the weird pushing of e and doing absolutely nothing else (which was also something that I disliked), and it also picked up on a lack of townreads. It also criticized the content of TNE's pushes, but you boiled all of that down to "cautious not to act with his wagon" (which, again, wasn't its point) and for being "under the radar". Why?

I'm also pretty skeptical of your reaction to Vecna in general; whereas RB seemed pretty genuinely pissed off at Vecna's behavior and obviously wasn't reading him as town at all, this post reads like you're really really close to believing him, but you're going to lynch him anyways for reasons that I don't really grasp. Could you clear this up for me?