Open 645: C9++ - Game Over

[LicketyQuickety]

omg does no one read

I saw your claim that you would claim if people don't back off, is that what you are talking about?

[LicketyQuickety]

omg does no one read

I saw your claim that you would claim if people don't back off, is that what you are talking about?

yes??

and so you vote me?

jesus

everyone is too dumb to be scum

This is really premature to be claiming that you will claim. You saying you will claim if people don't get off you back is kinda what you are suppose to do. You are basically claiming PR without saying which one. I find that kinda convenient of you. If you are claiming you are PR then you are basically already dead, so what's the point?

[LicketyQuickety]

Zach I seriously can't take this
can we please lynch LQ


LQ how the heck is this convinient for me
do you think i want to be doing this
i think i have been softing it for a really long time


i'm just frustrated we have so many good possible lynches and postie descides hey lets do bins shes DEFFO SCUMMO
also like RC selfvoting just made me super apathetic that i have to play with that antitown shit
ALSO
i dont think softing is THAT BAD rn because it helps other PRs determine numbers and maybe figure out the scum layout/if GF is possible

What other PR do you think there are this game? We are likely dealing with a TTT setup. That means there is a 1-shot cop, a 1-shot vig, an IC and a Doc or RB. That is where I am putting my money right now.

[LicketyQuickety]

UNVOTE:

[LicketyQuickety]

VOTE: Ranger

[LicketyQuickety]

I have my reasons for wanting a massclaim. it's going to happen.

No, its not. Not until another day has passed at least.

[LicketyQuickety]

VOTE: LQ

It's happening today and no later.

Let me get this strait.. You are voting me because I don't want mass claim today? Shitty reason is shitty.

[LicketyQuickety]

I will make a mass claim happen.

Frankly, IDGAF if you are voting me. That is not a reason to vote someone. What I said ie. not wanting mass claim is not even Scummy, so wtf gives?

[LicketyQuickety]

We are massclaiming today.

If I explain my reasons it will hurt the value of the massclaim.

And fuck if it wouldn't be amazing for town if you got nightkilled.

No, we most certainly are not mass claiming today. The ONLY time Mass claim should happen is when it solves the game. This will just cause way more WIFOM than needed.

Be advised I'm not ruling out a dav/bins team just yet.

[LicketyQuickety]

Everyone on the list is potential scum, but Ranger is the least-potential scum.

But whether we even massclaim or not should be determined by Ranger, as well as the order. While we're waiting on her to get back to the thread, let's go ahead and get Lickety up to L-1.

I'm not claiming until I'm at L-1. Vote me all game like a stubborn mule, see if I care.

[LicketyQuickety]

So remind me who you think is scum?

We need another flip.

I'd be fine lynching RC (prefered), Postie, a plain farmer or Ranger, in that order.

[LicketyQuickety]

Needless to say, we need a town block at this point, which we don't have.

I suggest lynching RC because Mass claim this early is a bad idea so I view it as Scummy and don't buy for a sec that RC has some master plan to catch Scum with a mass claim. I mean really, what can RC come up with that is actually an original idea here? I don't want the UnCCed PR claims lynched, as well as the IC and I am not voting for myself. As I see it, either Dav and bins are the last Scum, knowing there are some free PR claims, or they are Town and I believe the latter at this point.

[LicketyQuickety]

Why am I your second biggest scumread?

Because you're most likely to be RC's scumbuddy.

[LicketyQuickety]

I am explaining why things are the way they are so that people who play like I do can understand where my current play comes from and hopefully understand that I'm town for it.

Look this is RC's first interaction with someone, me. All this post does is explain away excuses for in RC's words, lynching Iva because they hadn't caught up. If that's not scummy IDK what is.

[LicketyQuickety]

VOTE: RC

[LicketyQuickety]

Basically it is Scummy because RC can just go right out and say they weren't caught up, but then why the vote at all on Iva? RC gave no reasons for that vote as far as I can see, so I see that as extremely opportunistic.

[LicketyQuickety]

Why is Smithereens obvtown?

Full case on both please.

Asks for a full case.. I have never EVER seen RC do a full case on anyone.

[LicketyQuickety]

RC claims Dav is lynch bait and that is why we shouldn't lynch him. Me on the other hand, I'm just plain Scummy and anyone who thinks I'm lynch bait is out of their minds.

/sarcasm

[LicketyQuickety]

VOTE: LicketyQuickety

Let's get the claim train going.

You first.

Actually, since RC wants mass claim so bad, maybe they should lead by example?

[LicketyQuickety]

I'll try and get some catch-up stuff in before threadlock.
In case I inexplicably die - LQ is town. RC is probably also town but I have no idea why.

I'll try and get some catch-up stuff in before threadlock.
In case I inexplicably die - LQ is town. RC is probably also town but I have no idea why.

scumclaim.

scumclaim.

Why?

Tentative VOTE: Postie but I think she would have killed me overnight.

VOTE: Postie

I'm going to reread everything before I vote.

here's an easy one: there's a below 0% chance that I would have made that nightkill if I were scum.

Why?

RC, if town's awful enough to lynch you today then your reads will likely be ignored after you're dead.

Also we're not lynching RC.

Alright this is what I'm looking at right now

1st Tier Lynchpool:

a plain farmer

/

Bins

2nd Tier Lynchpool:

Ranger

/

LicketyQuickety

Townpool:

Zachstralkita

/

RadiantCowbells

/

davesaz

Obviously Ranger moves up if we're confirmed to not have a godfather.

This is every interaction between RC and Potsie. Nowhere is any pressure they put on each other real in any sense of the word. RC has literally 0 follow through in there engagement with Potsie, and Potsies Town read of RC seems to come out of thin air.

[LicketyQuickety]

Potsie

Is this like a thing now

Sorry about the name thing, but I am pretty sure you are Scum with RC at this point. With RC's fake pressure and blatantly fabricated votes on you and you Town read on RC for no reason makes me believe this.

[LicketyQuickety]

I will not be doing anything besides prod dodging while LQ is alive regardless of the massclaim status.

Cheers gentlemen.

Well, I guess if you're not scum at least we can call you a poor sport, how does that sound?

[LicketyQuickety]

Bins stopped pushing on me and LQ didn't.

What is your point here? I am suppose to magically read you as Town because someone else did?

[LicketyQuickety]

I am perfectly happy being called a poor sport as long as if you're town you admit that you're a poor player. There is no reason whatsoever to scum me right now and tons of reasons to townread me.

OK, I admit I'm a poor player.. WTF is your point? I rather be a poor player than a poor sport any day.

[LicketyQuickety]

So are we lynching LQ or massclaiming? If there's a chance we lynch anyone other than LQ I'd like to massclaim. But Bins and Ranger are scumreading LQ and they're yet to vote him so I think this LQ lynch should be good to go?

This looks a lot like pushing an agenda.

[LicketyQuickety]

VOTE: RC for obvious reasons.

[LicketyQuickety]

VOTE: LicketyQuickety

Back to L-1. You can go before Dave. Claim in next post or lynched.

My, my. I don't think I've ever played with anyone more bossy.

[LicketyQuickety]

I'm not claiming until RC tells us her plan.

[LicketyQuickety]

Zac, you have my permission to hammer LQ since he hasn't claimed.

Permission? WTF?

[LicketyQuickety]

Zac, you have my permission to hammer LQ since he hasn't claimed.

Permission? WTF?

Claim then.

I don't like you.

[LicketyQuickety]

Regardless of my reads (which are pretty fucking amazing let's be real), regardless of my alignment, I'm the most mechanically skilled player in this game. No one in this game is about to contest that.

Did you ever think that maybe, if you understood the game like I do, you would understand that no matter what was going on the correct move would be to massclaim today?

I don't like you.

Great, because I don't particularly like you either. If you'd rather get lynched than play this game than that's your prerogative, but I am finishing the massclaim or getting lynched trying.

Lynching me because I don't want mass claim is not Scummy for me, but terribly Scummy for you.

[LicketyQuickety]

Like this isn't a choice. This is the fact that it is objectively the correct move to massclaim today and I'm shocked that Bins of all people who has as much setup info as she claims to hasn't seen it.

Why is it the best move for mass claim today? I don't believe you've offered a singly shred of evidence for this.

[LicketyQuickety]

I don't give a shit what's scummy. I am making the mass claim happen because it's the objectively correct move. I have no qualms lynching you if you're going to stand in the way of a town win.

Why is it the best move for mass claim today? I don't believe you've offered a singly shred of evidence for this.

Explaining it would reduce some of the value of it.

I will tell you what. Claim. If I can't argue an extremely strong objective case for why it was the correct decision after the fact, you can lynch me and I won't trash talk you in postgame.

You're leaving out an important detail, even if given your crazy unrealistic hypothetical of a bargain which never ever works in my experience. You left out if I get lynched.

[LicketyQuickety]

If you get lynched and are town I vent some of my frustration with how difficult this has been and I am likely to end up in MyLo where the massclaim will end up happening anyway.

If you get lynched and are scum I am fine with it.

Wrong again. I don't want you in MyLo I want you dead long before then.

[LicketyQuickety]

Like when you're either obnoxious sucm or town who is trying to push a policy lynch on the me in my last game it doesn't incline me at all to respect you, take your reads seriously, or want to see you kept alive.

Who is doing a PL?!?! I have no idea how you dreamed that one up. the only PL that can be thought of is you wanting to lynch me because I don't want mass claim, and even that is a stretch.

[LicketyQuickety]

If you're claiming that your push on me is not in fact a policy lynch, then why is it a thing? Why am I scum, LQ?

Because you are Scummy.

[LicketyQuickety]

We have 7 days to decide a lynch, I am not claiming yet.

[LicketyQuickety]

That's not your decision to make when you're at L-1 unless you're willing to be lynched for refusing to cooperate.

I'm sorry what? Its not my decision to make? WTF? Like it is me actually playing my slot, if its not my decision who's is it?

[LicketyQuickety]

Ours, because we have the power to lynch you if you refuse to claim.

I do not fear death. Death is just another part of the journey.

I will claim however, but only because I am going on vacation and will be V/LA from the 28th to the 4th.

I am VT.

[LicketyQuickety]

I was thinking bins and dav were masons, which is why bins had such a strong town read on dav. So bins revealing that they are Doc changes things. Dav claims that he knows the setup if bins claim is true. So what I suggest is that dav give the setup info he has knowing bins is Doc and if that can be disproven then we lynch dav. Basically if Dav is right it takes away safe claims from Scum since the other PR can verify that Dav is correct through self identification of their own PR's. But basically how I see it is we have one of Two setups. If bins claim is accurate and dav's is not we have a 1-shot vig, a 1-shot Cop, a Doc and an IC is one possible setup. That would give us TTT, which would make Ranger Town. This would also make dav Scum. The other possibility if bins and Dav's claims are accurate then we would have a T Setup.

This table shows what we are dealing with.

1. T OR TTT
   • IF TTT
     • C, D, M, V
   • If T
     • C, D, M, D AND
       • V OR VV
         • IF V
           • D, B
             
           • BB
         • IF VV
           • D
             
           • B

[LicketyQuickety]

VOTE: Davesaz

I already claimed VT. this is scum.

Now you don't want Mass claim? Is that what I'm getting from this?

RC I think its time YOU claim.

[LicketyQuickety]

We wait for the last Doc to claim.

[LicketyQuickety]

And the vig

[LicketyQuickety]

I'm a little slow today.

If there are no CCs we lynch all the VTs.

[LicketyQuickety]

1-shot vig here. Bins, if you roleblock someone, don't subsequently fakeclaim a target that could only be plausible if you were roleblocked.

I tried to shoot dave N1 (sorry ) but was blocked. And of course I got my man N2.

VOTE: Bins

I was under the impression that if vig is RB then you still use your shot. Am I wrong here?

[LicketyQuickety]

Oh, sorry. Forgot LQ is also a VT claim.

Yes, I am, and I said earlier that I don't fear dying. I wasn't just saying that. I am prepared to die for a win. Survival is not the bottom line, winning and having fun is.

[LicketyQuickety]

DDD is two full docs. Having comprehension problems?

@RC: Did you claim VT? If you did, I missed it. In any case, I'm a full doc.

@MOD: are blocked shots by 1-shot roles refunded?

Deduction has never been my strong suit.

[LicketyQuickety]

I'm pretty sure Ranger claims VT anyway so let's just break this down. If this is T:

RC town
Davesaz town
Bins town
Zac town
APF town
Ranger unknown
LQ unknown
Postie unknown

If this is TTT:
RC town
Zac town
APF town
Ranger town
1 scum between {Davesaz, Bins}
1 scum between {LQ, Postie}

So Postie who I've been wanting to lynch since the beginning is pretty much scum either way.

Lets wait for Ranger.

[LicketyQuickety]

This is literally nothing like my scumgame.

Even if that is true, it doesn't make you Town.

[LicketyQuickety]

DDD is pretty broken, not going to lie.

[LicketyQuickety]

DDD is pretty broken, not going to lie.

GF is broken as well. As well as a 1-shot Vig that doesn't lose its shot.

GF has its uses. Vig that doesn't lose its shot is rediculous, that much is true.

[LicketyQuickety]

If you think that I'm town, Postie, LQ is confscum fypov. But I'm not losing this game and I'm certainly not losing it to you.

Lets wait for Ranger.

[LicketyQuickety]

Even if that is true, it doesn't make you Town.

Why? It kinda does.

No, it doesn't. For one, meta can change. Second of all Night chat can have a huge impact on how a slot is perceived and that means Scum can talk about how they present themselves in the game. With a little knowledge from someone else, meta can make a complete 180.

[LicketyQuickety]

@RC, can you just shut up for like a few pages? That would be great. You're wearing on my nerves right now.

[LicketyQuickety]

Yes your reads sucked deal with it.

Could you be any more obnoxious?

[LicketyQuickety]

Actually it isn't a 100% 1v1, as scum and sk could have double killed.

@MOD please verify, doc protects only one kill?

I know, silly question but I really believe in being extra safe.

It says it does in the OP.

[LicketyQuickety]

Don't forget i'm spicing things up day 2

oh and I totally forgot this was another main reason I thought dunn would be the NK target

This post is horrible.

VOTE: bins

[LicketyQuickety]

but why is it horrible?

Because you are saying because Dunn said that they were going to spice things up Day 2 means anything at all. It just means that Dunn is prolly just saying that thinking they are actually going to spice things up and play different when they really prolly don't have the capacity to. Like it it common sense. Do you really think Dunn has the ability to make a big change like that, cuz I sure don't. The only other explanation I can think of is that Dunn said that to try and draw a NK, but I don't really put much faith in that considering the type of person Dunn is.

[LicketyQuickety]

either way how does my interpretation of that post make me scum?? looks like pulling opportunistic reasons out of your butt

Not at all. I gave my reason which has to do with reading the person behind the action, something you utterly fail to do if you are Town. Also, I don't buy that Dunn way someone who should have been the obvious NK. I think Scum should be looking to kill a lurker ie someone who doesn't give a lot of info from their Kill or someone who is a strong candidate to be a PR or someone who had really good reads and I believe Dunn was none of these things.

[LicketyQuickety]

UNVOTE:

[LicketyQuickety]

I think an RC Ranger team is not out of the question.

[LicketyQuickety]

I'm V/LA until the 4th. I'm going on vacation for a week. I'm leaving in about 4 hours and not getting back until the 4th.

[LicketyQuickety]

I knew it was bins I fucking knew it! Why the fuck did I leave the read? I need to get my head examined.

[LicketyQuickety]

Nothing else teaches better than experience.

Fucking amen!

[LicketyQuickety]

yeah, so like, dav had the hammer on vedith and Town hammers him??? WTF!

[LicketyQuickety]

OK, so, like..

The next time I make a shitty wall post with someone's ISO can people please listen?

[LicketyQuickety]

Yeah, sorry to say this, but Zack.. you need more experience and I suggest reading some articles on the wiki and remember the cardinal #1 rule of Mafia: Scum hunt.

[LicketyQuickety]

I still don't think we should have mass claimed while I was alive.

[LicketyQuickety]

Like here's the thing. I called for the massclaim and I was like dead on nearly 100% this game and you're STILL questioning my decision to massclaim.

it was the right decision, period.

Retrospect is not a reason for it being optimal. That's so bad. SO BAD!

[LicketyQuickety]

Massclaim is optimal in this setup if

1) VTs die in D1 and D2
2) Massclaim follows PR or VT popcorn method.

I was under the assumption you needed a PR or two to flip so you could solve the setup. I haven't checked any kind of EV play so I don't know anything about that stuff.

[LicketyQuickety]

@LQ Not so much.

If you force the PR or VT mass claim, scum don't know which letters to claim. Then, there's the claiming of specific PRs which only happens after the PR/VT part. Eventually, the bodies hit the floor and scum narrative has to match that. No matter what kill scum make, they are wore off.

K, that makes sense. basically trapping the scum to make bad claims for the future. Honestly, I get so lost on that stuff. I just try to find Scum.

[LicketyQuickety]

Yeah but if that's the case LQ, can you give someone who DOES do that stuff the benefit of the doubt, especially when you claim to townread them?

Depends if they know what they are talking about
Depends if I have seen them do that previously and been right about it.

[LicketyQuickety]

I can see daves pov here. there is defenitely a line that can be crossed where you are so manipulative as Town that it hurts towns chances of winning. RC throwing the game is unacceptable and will prolly not be playing in any of my games.

[LicketyQuickety]

RC made a mistake. Mistakes happen. It's an unfortunate way for the game to end, that's all.

Yeah, I can't say for certain that RC was throwing the game, I can't. But I don't get why its even coming up in discussion is all.