Queen of Hearts [Game Over]

[Untrod Tripod]

My play is town-aligned, and I am town-aligned.

This sarcasm is so fake and scum-aligned because your argument is actually bad...

jesus fucking christ can we lynch him for being annoying at least?

[Ankamius]

I'm glad we got the iraonavp tunnel war out of the way now before anything truly important happens.

[curiouskarmadog]

I think this is a TvT
Irao's response has been pretty good IMO, he argued with zMuffon for 5 pages and I don't think he'd have that conviction as scum

also (and I hate it when people say this in games, I almost always think they are scum instantly when they say this...but)

I guess we're lynching SC then, huh?

and for what it's worth, Irao would ABSOLUTELY have this kind of conviction as scum

yep right after you lynch me.

[Katsuki]

Irao's response has been pretty good IMO, he argued with zMuffon for 5 pages and I don't think he'd have that conviction as scum

what in the actual fuck

powerlynch this shit after iraon flips

VOTE: IRAON

[Katsuki]

I actually read most of that muffin/iraon exchange and don't know whether to laugh or cry.

I'm almost tempted to let Iraon live because this pretty much sums it up:

you're never going to target a person who gets night-killed. i am calling it now. no matter how long you live in this game, you're never going to target a person who gets night-killed

and you'll continue to have excuses for why it didn't happen

"oh, i didn't want to protect the obvious ones the other bodyguards might do it"

"oh, i thought he was gonna die but it turned out to be this other guy"

"oh, don't lynch me, i'm just having an off game, i swear. i'm a bodyguard, i can't be scum, it's too risky to lynch me"

[Vedith]

Town doing some 10/10 work here.

@Froots - Talk to me about your other reads.

[Untrod Tripod]

I think this is a TvT
Irao's response has been pretty good IMO, he argued with zMuffon for 5 pages and I don't think he'd have that conviction as scum

also (and I hate it when people say this in games, I almost always think they are scum instantly when they say this...but)

I guess we're lynching SC then, huh?

and for what it's worth, Irao would ABSOLUTELY have this kind of conviction as scum

yep right after you lynch me.

nah I don't wanna

vote iroan

[zMuffinMan]

Muffin, fyi, I didnt read the set up either...I only just now read it when you guys were going on and on about it....when you said "bookie" I just assumed it was some role you had run into before. Was going to look it and the Alice thing up later.

yes this is a natural reaction to what I said if you haven't read the setup; ignoring it and assuming im saying something irrelevant, not making a point about asking what the role is (especially when you already know what the role is)

[zMuffinMan]

i have some work to do this morning that's gonna take me through til at least about 4 hours from now but i do want to talk about the rest of iraon's play and why i thought he was scum d1 and why i think the only real reason not to lynch him today is if you just want to give him a chance to kill himself (which i might be ok with only if i can see a strong enough reason to think someone else is scum)

[SirCakez]

I think this is a TvT
Irao's response has been pretty good IMO, he argued with zMuffon for 5 pages and I don't think he'd have that conviction as scum

also (and I hate it when people say this in games, I almost always think they are scum instantly when they say this...but)

I guess we're lynching SC then, huh?

and for what it's worth, Irao would ABSOLUTELY have this kind of conviction as scum

CKD summed up why the first line here is stupid pretty well
I don't think I've seen an Irao scum game before, but from what I know of his town game he doesn't strike me as an extremely aggressive player who would argue this much as scum

Irao's response has been pretty good IMO, he argued with zMuffon for 5 pages and I don't think he'd have that conviction as scum

what in the actual fuck

powerlynch this shit after iraon flips

VOTE: IRAON

After he flips town?

[Untrod Tripod]

CKD summed up why the first line here is stupid pretty well

humor isn't your strong suit, is it

[zMuffinMan]

you raise a good point mr cake

i also think that if iraon were scum, he wouldn't argue back when someone calls him scum, he would just accept it and admit he's scum or something... i also think that if he were scum and thought his role would make him seem town, there's not a chance he'd argue about that either

[SirCakez]

not really UT
p-edit: Harsh sarcasm Muffin
Nah he wouldn't admit he was scum but he wouldn't draw so much attention with a 5-page fight I think

[zMuffinMan]

i think your meta point about him (that you've never seen him roll scum but you can guess how differently he'd act) is also fairly strong

i may have to look elsewhere today

[SirCakez]

Good to know

[zMuffinMan]

i don't think he was the one drawing it out? i was, first by calling him out for the question he asked then persistently badgering him about the poor answers he was giving. the entire conversation didn't happen because he was trying to draw it out but because i was making him answer questions

i suppose he could have disappeared as scum and not given any answers but that's generally not a good look so eh

[Untrod Tripod]

not really UT
p-edit: Harsh sarcasm Muffin
Nah he wouldn't admit he was scum but he wouldn't draw so much attention with a 5-page fight I think

I was mostly raising the point that it was a really weird thing to say given that the post directly above him was doing the thing he was saying he would snapvote.

I don't see why him arguing is necessarily a town-tell given that it's mostly nonsense and drivel

also meta is trash

[Untrod Tripod]

like he literally said "I'm town because I'm town" as an actual serious point

[zMuffinMan]

i don't think him calling himself town means much

i do think it's telling that when i asked him about the things i missed that supposedly made him obvious town, the only thing he pointed to was bodyguard crumbs, as though he was confident that this alone would make him seem town and there's no reason scum would ever do that

[SirCakez]

i don't think he was the one drawing it out? i was, first by calling him out for the question he asked then persistently badgering him about the poor answers he was giving. the entire conversation didn't happen because he was trying to draw it out but because i was making him answer questions

i suppose he could have disappeared as scum and not given any answers but that's generally not a good look so eh

You both drew it out, you were both arguing

Wouldn't have been a good look if he had cut it off but it wouldn't have literally 1/5 of the game pagecount-wise being all about him. Now when others start catching up there's going to be a shitload of attention on him.

not really UT
p-edit: Harsh sarcasm Muffin
Nah he wouldn't admit he was scum but he wouldn't draw so much attention with a 5-page fight I think

I was mostly raising the point that it was a really weird thing to say given that the post directly above him was doing the thing he was saying he would snapvote.

I don't see why him arguing is necessarily a town-tell given that it's mostly nonsense and drivel

also meta is trash

I mean, if he did it himself, why would he vote someone else for doing the same thing?
See above

like he literally said "I'm town because I'm town" as an actual serious point

I will give you that sucks though

[zMuffinMan]

this is the list of players outside of iraon that i most want to sort today:
spiffeh, ankamius, frootloop and maybe wingback dunno

[Seraphim]

I am torn on Iraon. I can't tell if his circular reasoning is driving me nuts or if he's actually scum. Right now, I'm leaning on "nuts" so I'm not super excited to lynch him over someone else. Muffiin is also town, fairly sure.

[Froot Loop]

I think ZMuffin is town but I'm not sure about IRA. Some posts which I think are weird:

Because I saw what he was doing, and

wanted to make my claim more believable

, and signal to him not to protect me.

I don't think this is something a town player would/should think about.

@ira - why did you want to signal to CKD not to protect you?

They almost never would, you are just posturing. It is very risky and opens them up to many bad things.

Especially bodyguard, that is one of the most awful fakeclaims because you're supposed to die!

This is why I know that curiouskarmadog is town-aligned, too.

(my bold)

I'm surprised that ira has such a firm town-read on CKD based on the evidence he's said. I agree with Muffin's point that the game would be a bit broken if the bodyguards could identify each other and they'd be confirmed town which makes me think there is a scum bodyguard in the game, or, at least, that scum had knowledge about the bodyguard situation. If that's the case, it's easy to manipulate. I would imagine that a town player would entertain that idea more seriously than blindly town-reading another player who has claimed bodyguard, which I also don't think CKD has actually done.

You know you've gone too far when you start criticizing about what I

didn't

do...

A scum-aligned bodyguard would not interact with curiouskarmacycle in that way, and you know it... If I were a scum-aligned bodyguard I would avoid revealing anything to allow more room later.

WIFOM

I also think the original point Muffin pointed out is quite compelling. ira asked what a bookie was AND said that he thought it was a term similar to VI but there's evidence that he's previously known what a bookie is. Like, I can agree that it's possible that he forgot what the role does exactly but I don't think it's very plausible that he forgot it's an actual role, rather than a term. Either way, I don't think it'd make sense if he'd read the setup, I think it's more likely that he didn't read the setup and asked that question for town-cred.

UNVOTE: Vedith

VOTE: iraonavp

@Vedith - I don't have time to go through my other reads just now but I'll do it later today.

[Froot Loop]

Also, why is bodyguard a bad role to claim as scum? I didn't get that point.

[zMuffinMan]

he's saying it's a bad role to claim as scum because you're meant to die with it

the logic being something like "scum wouldn't claim a role where they have to justify being alive later on"

it makes some sense if you don't stop to think that scum who actually was given the role would probably have to claim it (or risk claiming something else with their flavour - e.g. if we suppose all cards are bodyguards, then a scum bodyguard card doesn't really have another safe claim...)