Newbie 1726 (Game Over)

[RachMarie]

nacho I think inno is scum

not sure who is buddy is poss foxbird

[Nachomamma8]

nacho I think inno is scum

not sure who is buddy is poss foxbird

i think that jaack is your partner.

[RachMarie]

why do you suspect Jaack?

and dude I am town I know I will flip town.

[Nachomamma8]

@Nachomamma8, I'm assuming that all the arguments about RachMarie being town still hold from yesterday, but as I'm too tired to look to see if you've actually answered this already, what do you think she'd be doing differently if she was scum? How would she play off the suspicion? Would she do something other than resign to being lynched? It's bad play regardless of alignment so there should be other options. Why does it have to be appeal to emotion rather than just scum accepting that they're going to be lynched (as opposed to town accepting that they're going to be lynched?)

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

I'd still expect Rach to put up resistance if she was scum, but the resistance that I'd expect would be more traditional (reiterating the case on the counterwagon, addressing some of the cases against her). The part that specifically made it seem like appeal to emotion instead of accepting the lynch was the callouts to me specifically (going "at least you read me as town" before she dies doesn't look anything like an attempt to tie herself to me), and the references to how it feels when she's mislynch in most games doesn't really have a "giving up feel" if they are posts coming from her as scum at all.

Does this make sense or do you want me to make a better attempt at answering this question later?

[Zorblag]

@Jaack, if I had had the ability to cause any lynch I wanted at the end of the day yesterday I'm not actually sure who it would have been. The two options I'd been most interested in for much of the day weren't looking as good (RachMarie and innocentvillager,) you are and were mostly interesting as a potential partner for RachMarie, so if I though she'd flip town there's not a lot of reason to want to lynch you, Foxbird I'd looked at earlier and didn't really like for scum (I still don't,) and Nachomamma8's move put him in the probably town category for me. ecane was all but claimed power role and I'd been reading her as town all day long anyhow. Given how the day was ending there wasn't really a lynch I'd love that much more than foedufafa for being likely to hit scum. The cases on him weren't impressive and I had a mild town read, but there wasn't a lot to work with and he wasn't there at the end which doesn't help him.

I have trouble with your answer about RachMarie though. The calling most of the game town that you're saying that she was doing in day two was something she was doing stretching back into day 1 (Post 135 and Post 207 both talk about using POE as a reason for her current vote, and Post 234 gives at least town leads to 6 players day 1 (with one scum who she's voting for and a meh could be scummy for the player who had never shown up.) That's behavior that wasn't new day two at all and yet RachMarie was consistently in your scummiest players list, so it shouldn't be something that's holding you back from her on day 2. I also have a lot of trouble with Post 391 as the scummiest post of the game to the point where it's going to override an entire game's worth of suspicious behavior. What is it that you've found scummy about RachMarie throughout the game so far that's kept her so high on your scum lists?

@Nachomamma8, I guess I don't see that the call appeals to you as a reason not to get lynched (and they've been there consistently through the game,) need to be appeals to emotion so much as appeals to authority. A "look, here's the IC who's not going to find me scummy because I'm just playing my poor town game, but if you lynch me he's going to go ballistic and lay waste to this game." It strikes me as a way to hide behind you in the game more than to manipulate you. I don't know that she could mount a more traditional resistance in this game given that she's really not done any playing along those lines much so far. It's only a slight exaggeration to say her whole game has been Nachomamma8 is town, he's going to know I'm town and I'm just going to put my play firmly behind him. It's pretty safe and low key. If we had recent scum games to compare to it might be handy, but apparently we don't if what you said earlier is true.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[RachMarie]

ME bus my scum budz

umm yeah hang on I do have one scum game recently

Micro 623

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=67199


I actually blew this because I was trying to lynch town instead of going with my scum read on DP who was other scum team. And my poor scum bud had to go without me, he almost won us the game, but had I bussed him like Nacho does his scum budz I would probably have carried the game and won it for us.

[Zorblag]

@RachMarie, talk to me about innocentvillager and Jaack. Why is innocentvillager scum beyond not liking the people for town that you do? What are you thinking about Jaack? Do you understand why I'm worried about his interactions with you?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@innocentvillager, you said at some point today that RachMarie is seeming more town to you. Did you mean that she's seeming more town today than she did at the end of the day yesterday or is this carryover from the Nachomamma8 defense?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@Mod (and everyone else,) I will be V/LA from Thursday to Saturday for a family vacation.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[innocentvillager]

nacho I think inno is scum

not sure who is buddy is poss foxbird

i think that jaack is your partner.

wat do you think rach is scum now

[innocentvillager]

@innocentvillager, you said at some point today that RachMarie is seeming more town to you. Did you mean that she's seeming more town today than she did at the end of the day yesterday or is this carryover from the Nachomamma8 defense?

latter

I haven't looked too much at her since the Nacho defense

[Zorblag]

@RachMarie, just to make sure you see this so that I can see a response when I get back from vacation:

@RachMarie, talk to me about innocentvillager and Jaack. Why is innocentvillager scum beyond not liking the people for town that you do? What are you thinking about Jaack? Do you understand why I'm worried about his interactions with you?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Nachomamma8]

@Nachomamma8, I guess I don't see that the call appeals to you as a reason not to get lynched (and they've been there consistently through the game,) need to be appeals to emotion so much as appeals to authority. A "look, here's the IC who's not going to find me scummy because I'm just playing my poor town game,

but if you lynch me he's going to go ballistic and lay waste to this game.

" It strikes me as a way to hide behind you in the game more than to manipulate you. I don't know that she could mount a more traditional resistance in this game given that she's really not done any playing along those lines much so far. It's only a slight exaggeration to say her whole game has been Nachomamma8 is town, he's going to know I'm town and I'm just going to put my play firmly behind him. It's pretty safe and low key. If we had recent scum games to compare to it might be handy, but apparently we don't if what you said earlier is true.

For me, the bolded + the fact that her entire game has centered around me is what tips it from an appeal to authority to an appeal to emotion; it's one thing to mention that I can read her and that people should listen to me and it's another thing to center every single thing that she's done in the game around me (which is not outside of my expectations for her town game).

[Nachomamma8]

nacho I think inno is scum

not sure who is buddy is poss foxbird

i think that jaack is your partner.

wat do you think rach is scum now

Not really. Just wanted to see her reaction.

[Zorblag]

@Nachomamma8, I'm less sold on it now then I was the end of the day yesterday. Play (lack thereof) and apparently ignoring this game now that I've asked a question that would be harder for her if she and Jaack are scum after being almost summonable when mentioned by name aren't helping her case in my eyes. If this sort of play is something that she'd do as town (center her game around you to the point of saying that your case on someone was strong despite you not having made it yet, for example,) I'm not sure why I should think she wouldn't do it as scum. I think there's less emotional manipulation there than you're seeing and more trying to play how she'd play as town in a very low risk manner.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Nachomamma8]

I think there's less emotional manipulation there than you're seeing and more trying to play how she'd play as town in a very low risk manner.

Do you see the point that I'm making with it though or do you think the point is dumb?
From my perspective, it boils down to whether I'm overvaluing her interactions too much or whether you're making a weaker call simply because you have less information.

[Zorblag]

*shrugs* I can see something of it, but I think that we're falling on different sides of the spectrum you're talking about. I'm not seeing nearly enough reason to think that she shouldn't be doing this as scum given the entire game which is either me not knowing her well enough or you thinking that you've got too strong a read on how she would shape her game as scum.

What do you think of Jaack at this point? As I've said, if RachMarie is scum then Jaack is almost certainly her partner. If he's town my case here gets somewhat weaker. Their interactions are what boost RachMarie to more likely scum for me at this point. Without a strong possible partner I'm more likely to go with your take (even if I hate her play as much as I do this game.)

And this is my last post till Saturday evening or Sunday.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[innocentvillager]

Lol this activity doe

[innocentvillager]

I will get some content up after the VLA I promise lol

[Jaack]

Sorry yall, been having Internet issues.

Not that anyone has been here to participate

[Zaicon]

Vote Count 3.3

Foxbird (1):

innocentvillager

No Vote (5):

Foxbird, Jaack, Nachomamma8, RachMarie, Zorblag

With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch!

Deadline is Tuesday, August 30, 2016 at 4:00 PM CST, which is in (expired on 2016-08-30 16:00:00).

V/LA - innocentvillager
V/LA - Zorblag

Prodding Foxbird and RachMarie.

[RachMarie]

Im here Im here sorry one of my large games JUST ended


Homestuck Mafia

Where I be the TOWN friggin JK and yet town kept wanting to lynch me EVEN AFTER I was confirmed many times by players who got my speeches, and I helped foil the scumz several times

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=66695

Read it and weep

seriously foiks this game drove me around the bend.

So back to this game

[RachMarie]

@

Troll

TBH I think Jaack is town but then I flip flop on Foxbird being town or scum by PoE, I probably need to look at the interactions between both of them and with inno my top scum read,

I feel that inno is scum

and that either one of the others has to be the partner by PoE since I have you and Nacho as strong town reads.

[Zorblag]

@RachMarie, why do you think that innocentvillager is scum? You've said it's about his reads, but why is having different reads than you scummy? And why would wanting a No Lynch be scummy here if he's not sure of any reads? You clearly thought he was scummy enough to vote for before he brought that up, but you've mentioned it since.

Also, why do you think Jaack is town more than Foxbird?

@Jaack, you seem fairly sure that Nachomamma8 is town at this point, can you say why that is? It shouldn't be his claim as he's got nothing to lose as scum making that claim based on the knowledge scum have of the setup. It's actually a better claim for scum to make than VT because it gives more wiggle room for no kills if they want to make them. innocentvillager pointed this out earlier, but I don't recall whether that was before or after you made your post about Nachomamma8's likelihood of being scum. Is there something else or is that it?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@Everyone, we're down to two and half days. We need people here if we're going to have any choice of figuring this out. If you care about the game, please show up. Don't just let scum win due to indifference.

@Mod, can we please prod Nachomamma8 as well?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh