Queen of Hearts [Game Over]

[iraonavp]

Why are you lying?

yep, you're definitely scum

[zMuffinMan]

Because they think the person claiming is telling the truth and therefore town-aligned

that is not why anyone does it

unless they're just really bad players and believe their claim makes them town

believing a claim has no fucking relevance to a person's alignment

but a lack of evidence to support a claim can lead to people disbelieving it, especially in the event of counter-claims <- THIS right here is why you crumb, not to "look town" as a general concept

it's a theory point you're blatantly fucking wrong about and i don't really care to argue it

the only questions are whether or not you're town who thought "my role makes me town and therefore i'm going to soft it" or whether you're scum who was trying to get away with it. i think the latter, nothing you've said about it has convinced me i'm wrong and i doubt anything you say about it is going to change this

so

while i know you're going to continue bringing up this awful point and claiming you're right and that people crumb roles to look town and that you did nothing that was out of the ordinary for town, i don't believe you and i don't care so i'd prefer you stop bringing it up (but hey, you're not going to, because filling the thread with junk is technically playing to your wincon)

[iraonavp]

Obviously believing a claim has relevance to alignment.

If someone has crumbed their role, it's more likely they are telling the truth to go to the effort and of locking themselves into a claim early on. Therefore, they look more town-aligned...

You have more posts than me, so in fact you are filling the thread up with junk.

[iraonavp]

If I looked at your mafia discussion posts, would I find evidence to support that you hold this belief?

[zMuffinMan]

Obviously believing a claim has relevance to alignment.

no

it's more likely they are telling the truth to go to the effort and of locking themselves into a claim early on

no

[iraonavp]

Obviously believing a claim has relevance to alignment.

no

it's more likely they are telling the truth to go to the effort and of locking themselves into a claim early on

no

Yes, yes.

[iraonavp]

The thread is enveloped in silence as both players scour zMuffinMan's posting history.

[zMuffinMan]

i don't need to look through my own posts, i don't lie about theory points in the first place regardless of my alignment (that's just a dumb thing to do)

though i can easily provide counter-examples to show why you're blatantly wrong in your assertions that scum don't do what you did in this game by citing my own scum games, because i basically crumb my role in every scum game i play for the express purpose of manipulating idiots who think telling truths about your role makes you more likely town

i did it in unimum, i did it in the past two fakegod games i rolled scum in (though in nightingale i botched it a bit, though, since i was of a split mind as to whether i should truthfully claim or fake-claim, in terms of what was the best +EV and ended up going with a fake claim - that said, if the PT from that game were ever made public, you'd see that i was debating claiming my actual role), i can't remember a recent scum game i haven't done it in (and you're free to verify this, too, but i'm not dumb enough to lie about things that can be fact-checked)

[iraonavp]

Okay, but there are some places where you do seem to think crumbing is alignment indicative, so you are lying... I just can't quote at the moment because I'm on mobile.

You know that you are in the minority, very sneaky and most people don't do that I am sure. Especially me, I'm not very sneaky when I'm scum-aligned.

[zMuffinMan]

i am pretty certain i have never once in the history of playing mafia called someone town for crumbs. i have called someone town for their role and whether i believed they were telling the truth about their role, but that's a part of setup speculation which is an entirely different ballgame and not related to what we're talking about

i *have* called someone scum for

not crumbing

(roles like hider, weak, etc), if that's what you mean by "crumbing is alignment indicative" but that's not what you're arguing here (and that pretty obviously falls under the category of "believable claims", as well as just "sensible use of a role" in general)

[zMuffinMan]

PS:

spamming this in every post so people are constantly reminded of it

Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2016-08-29 15:00:00)

if you're not voting someone, vote

if you're voting someone and nobody is voting with you, do something about it

[zMuffinMan]

current, i think

iraonavp (4):

zMuffinMan,

C

u

p

c

a

k

e

, Untrod Tripod, Froot Loop

Froot Loop (1):

Ankamius

Wingback (1):

SirCakez

DrippingGoofball (1):

Seraphim

zMuffinMan (1):

iraonavp

Not Voting (7):

DrippingGoofball, Spiffeh, Wingback, Vedith, PeregrineV, thenewearth, curiouskarmadog

15 alive, 8 to lynch,

(expired on 2016-08-29 15:00:00)

[thenewearth]

I just wanna sheep someone :<

[SirCakez]

zmuffin vs irao is literally painful to read
also lol bye Wingback

[zMuffinMan]

well, there's one surefire way to make it stop

[SirCakez]

I don't want to mislynch tho

VOTE: froot loop
No point voting an empty slot

[zMuffinMan]

so, er...

froot loop has never rolled scum apparently

[SirCakez]

Ok?
Doesn't mean they didn't roll scum here

[zMuffinMan]

nah, but with players like froot loop, who just naturally sound off, i like having some basis for comparison

why is froot loop scum

[curiouskarmadog]

ugh...

I dont want to do this but

VOTE: dgb

I am sorry my dear, but I have a feeling you drew scum this time. hopefully we can be BFFs still after this.

[curiouskarmadog]

also the Iran Muffin continued back and forth is just noise right now..I skimmed it yes...but didnt deep dive it.

if I get a second today, I want to go check out that other game with Iran had contact with or knew about a bookie.

[Vedith]

if you're not voting someone, vote

if you're voting someone and nobody is voting with you, do something about it

So my choices are, Ira, Froot, DGB and you?

Yeeahh, no.

VOTE: Katsuki

[Untrod Tripod]

deadline is in two days and you want to start a new wagon on a player who has barely posted?

[FakeGod]

Wingback is an alt of a banned user, and is being replaced.

[Vedith]

deadline is in two days and you want to start a new wagon on a player who has barely posted?

I'm voting where I think is scum, sadly town aren't doing a good job with their votes, and I'm not voting the 4 up for offer.
I can understand why you are satisfied with voting anywhere though.