Open 654 | Surrealism - Game over

[Mimikyu]

@mimikyu How is he low hanging fruit if I'm the only one going after him? And I didn't parrot anyone so your post made no sense

You mentioned initially that his post felt off.

A couple others commented on it/voted him, but ultimately it's written off as being new. He then explicitly states he is new. Your post then comments on things completely ignoring the fact that he

just

stated he was new, which was also clear just from the post. You can ignore the parrot thing since reading through I felt others made stronger comments re: Aubrey, but the low-hanging fruit comment remains. Town tend to take everything into account. You are ignoring things and steamrolling ahead.

[Gamma Emerald]

About scum hunting: one thing we need to consider is team hunting. With two teams, I feel this is very important.

[Mimikyu]

About scum hunting: one thing we need to consider is team hunting. With two teams, I feel this is very important.

Definitely.

[Aubrey]

I'm seeing a lot of slanted eyes looking at Backstar due to his quick assessment of me. Even though he hasn't exactly snuggled up into a warm place in my heart, I don't think his actions are horribly scummy yet. He has opened up dialog between me and other players which leaves him more as null with possible town lean for me right now. Granted in a game like this I'd assume every alignment would benefit by opening up dialog amongst players. Other than that, the only scum motivation I can fathom would be trying to take attention off of Skold, which i don't think is likely as early as it is.

I don't really like these questions by Gamma. They don't seem to do much to progress the game forward, and allows people the ability to post and look busy. The only question that holds much merit to the game for people to answer is the third one. Aristophanes thoughts on the matter seem to align with mine.

Correct me if I'm wrong but do we not all agree that scum hunting

and

town hunting are both valuable assists for town to do in this game other than Skold? The arguments I'm seeing are just reassigning general game mechanics it seems, but aren't really addressing how effective or non-effective it would be to throw one of those "hunting mechanics" out the door all together in a game like this.

I agree Aubrey's entry felt awkward but I'm chalking it up to new-player weirdness.

VOTE: The_Jester
I like Skold's reasoning for this.

What could you have liked about that reasoning?

I'm also interested to know this. I didn't find Jesters interaction with Skold to be bad. If anything it reminded me of something an IC, or one of the more advanced players, would say in the newbie games.

@blackstar are your thoughts regarding Skolds play the same or have they changed now based on the back and forth between Jester and Aristophanes?

@Mimikyu I'm not

exactly

new to mafia. I'm new to mafiascum.net however. I've played up to 5 thread games similar to this, and have done quick chat mafia games. 4 of those games, and all the chat games were played on a different site. My first game here, I played mafia and won.

[BlackStar]

@mimikyu How is he low hanging fruit if I'm the only one going after him? And I didn't parrot anyone so your post made no sense

You mentioned initially that his post felt off.

A couple others commented on it/voted him, but ultimately it's written off as being new. He then explicitly states he is new. Your post then comments on things completely ignoring the fact that he

just

stated he was new, which was also clear just from the post. You can ignore the parrot thing since reading through I felt others made stronger comments re: Aubrey, but the low-hanging fruit comment remains. Town tend to take everything into account. You are ignoring things and steamrolling ahead.

Like he just said again, he's new

to this site

. And just because someone is new doesn't mean you should ignore weird posts. If he was really low hanging fruit, scum would be making all kinds of excuses to jump on his wagon

[Mimikyu]

I'm seeing a lot of slanted eyes looking at Backstar due to his quick assessment of me. Even though he hasn't exactly snuggled up into a warm place in my heart, I don't think his actions are horribly scummy yet. He has opened up dialog between me and other players which leaves him more as null with possible town lean for me right now. Granted in a game like this I'd assume every alignment would benefit by opening up dialog amongst players. Other than that, the only scum motivation I can fathom would be trying to take attention off of Skold, which i don't think is likely as early as it is.

Who is giving slanted eyes at Blackstar? He's had more than one person now mention they felt the same, but didn't really feel it was scummy necessarily.

I don't really like these questions by Gamma. They don't seem to do much to progress the game forward, and allows people the ability to post and look busy. The only question that holds much merit to the game for people to answer is the third one. Aristophanes thoughts on the matter seem to align with mine.

The point is it gets people to talk. You can't figure out who is who if we don't have anything to work with. This adds extra posts by everyone. Perfectly fine by me.

@Mimikyu I'm not

exactly

new to mafia. I'm new to mafiascum.net however. I've played up to 5 thread games similar to this, and have done quick chat mafia games. 4 of those games, and all the chat games were played on a different site. My first game here, I played mafia and won.

Ok but your first two posts do reek of newbie, and I'm not saying that as an insult; they just do. So whether you're just new to MS, or new in general, those posts were newbie-tells.

Blackstar, you can proceed. This last post was even weirder.

[BlackStar]

@aubrey

I reread everything and I still don't think Skold is scummy. The tow hunting thing doesn't seem bad to me so I don't see why it caused a big debate. The only post he made that I can understand people not liking is post 21. Jesters did give off that IC vibe like you said which is something that I usually see from scum. I guess he's a scum lean for now. I don't like aristo' posts because they give off this kind of "rally around me, please consider me a town leader!" vibe and I don't trust people who do that. Also he has me as a scum lean, so he clearly has bad reads so far.

[Ümläüt]

@Blackstar

What do you make of Aubrey refusing the "not scum because newbie" read I gave her?

On a scale of "more likely than random to be evil" to "SCUM SCUM LYNCH LYNCH" how strongly are you actually scumreading Aubrey? Because I could see an early vote based on the former but you're arguing as if it's the latter.

[Ümläüt]

What do you make of Aubrey refusing the "not scum because newbie" read I gave

him

?

Oops

[Aubrey]

@Mimikyu

1- a number of players have said that they don't like him so far. Even you. Those are the slanted eyes.

2- I don't see how stating if you like playing mafia or town or stating your favorite role being worth anything in this game. It's pointless info. As I said, the only question worth answering is number 3. This was not me saying that I suspect him of bad intentions.

3- None taken.

[Mimikyu]

@Mimikyu

1- a number of players have said that they don't like him so far. Even you. Those are the slanted eyes.

2- I don't see how stating if you like playing mafia or town or stating your favorite role being worth anything in this game. It's pointless info. As I said, the only question worth answering is number 3. This was not me saying that I suspect him of bad intentions.

3- None taken.

1. You said he was getting slanted eyes due to his quick assessment of you, and AFAIK I am the only one who did so for that reason.

2. The point is it gets people talking. Talking about anything is better than talking about nothing. Someone says their favorite is mafia, they are more likely to become disengaged as town.

[Ümläüt]

I'm also interested to know this. I didn't find Jesters interaction with Skold to be bad. If anything it reminded me of something an IC, or one of the more advanced players, would say in the newbie games.

If this were a newbie game and Jester were an IC I'd have no problem with it.

What I didn't like about Jester's post was that I don't see a town reason to make it. Skold is already going to do what he's going to do, he doesn't need Jester's permission, so the only purpose I can see for that post is buddying.

It could just be a pointless post by town but it was enough to make voting him better than a random vote.

[Gamma Emerald]

@Blackstar

What do you make of Aubrey refusing the "not scum because newbie" read I gave her?

On a scale of "more likely than random to be evil" to "SCUM SCUM LYNCH LYNCH" how strongly are you actually scumreading Aubrey? Because I could see an early vote based on the former but you're arguing as if it's the latter.

That first point: anyone who says "don't trust me even though I'm town telling" is either ballsy scum or town.

[Ümläüt]

@Gamma

Is your name Blackstar?

[Mimikyu]

@Blackstar

What do you make of Aubrey refusing the "not scum because newbie" read I gave her?

On a scale of "more likely than random to be evil" to "SCUM SCUM LYNCH LYNCH" how strongly are you actually scumreading Aubrey? Because I could see an early vote based on the former but you're arguing as if it's the latter.

That first point: anyone who says "don't trust me even though I'm town telling" is either ballsy scum or town.

Except it's not actually ballsy because everyone reads that kind of thing as super town. You kind of have to.

[Gamma Emerald]

@Gamma

Is your name Blackstar?

I felt I needed to answer anyway. Sorry for having my own opinion.

[Aubrey]

@aubrey

I reread everything and I still don't think Skold is scummy. The tow hunting thing doesn't seem bad to me so I don't see why it caused a big debate. The only post he made that I can understand people not liking is post 21. Jesters did give off that IC vibe like you said which is something that I usually see from scum. I guess he's a scum lean for now. I don't like aristo' posts because they give off this kind of "rally around me, please consider me a town leader!" vibe and I don't trust people who do that. Also he has me as a scum lean, so he clearly has bad reads so far.

I think the big town hunt debate was just talk about game mechanics in general, instead of focusing around the complete elimination of one of the hunting tools (scumhunt/townhunt) and how it would better or harm us in eliminating one of them as Skold plans to do. As I said, I don't see the purpose of eliminating one. utilizing both is optimal in my opinion.

As for Aristophanes I can see where you're coming from, however that mentality could be harmful and would place a target on anybody who tries to rally the town around them with good intention or bad as the game progresses. His posts so far seem fine to me, and I have agreed with them in general. The only post I was indifferent with was when he voted for you, and called for people to rally as if he was hoping to form a bandwagon early on. Like you, I don't like it when people do the rally thing early, but I don't consider horrid either.

I'm also interested to know this. I didn't find Jesters interaction with Skold to be bad. If anything it reminded me of something an IC, or one of the more advanced players, would say in the newbie games.

If this were a newbie game and Jester were an IC I'd have no problem with it.

What I didn't like about Jester's post was that I don't see a town reason to make it. Skold is already going to do what he's going to do, he doesn't need Jester's permission, so the only purpose I can see for that post is buddying.

It could just be a pointless post by town but it was enough to make voting him better than a random vote.

It's something to consider I guess, but I still don't know how damning it is. Seems he is caught in the same web I'm in. He remains null to me.

@Blackstar

What do you make of Aubrey refusing the "not scum because newbie" read I gave her?

??? when did I say "I'm not scum because i'm new?" Anybody who thinks someone isn't scum because they are new are seriously misguided. Am I misunderstanding you?

@Mimikyu

1- a number of players have said that they don't like him so far. Even you. Those are the slanted eyes.

2- I don't see how stating if you like playing mafia or town or stating your favorite role being worth anything in this game. It's pointless info. As I said, the only question worth answering is number 3. This was not me saying that I suspect him of bad intentions.

3- None taken.

1. You said he was getting slanted eyes due to his quick assessment of you, and AFAIK I am the only one who did so for that reason.

2. The point is it gets people talking. Talking about anything is better than talking about nothing. Someone says their favorite is mafia, they are more likely to become disengaged as town.

You didn't like Blackstar's attack on me. Aristophanes did not like it and has him in nullscum. Zach did not like it. You are not the first to not like his case on me (initially). I could have sworn Gamma also had him in a null scum, but I think I got that confused with Aristophanes. Irregardless, I stand by what I said about him earlier this morning.

Just because someone likes to play scum doesn't mean that they are immediately going to be more likely to become a disengaged townie. It's not that black and white, and furthermore I don't see why you care so much. If people want to spout out their favorite role and team, then be my guest. I'm just more interested in question 3 as I've said.

[Ümläüt]

??? when did I say "I'm not scum because i'm new?" Anybody who thinks someone isn't scum because they are new are seriously misguided. Am I misunderstanding you?

It looks like you are.

I wrote

I agree Aubrey's entry felt awkward but I'm chalking it up to new-player weirdness.

You responded

New to MafiaScum and some of your abbreviations, but not exactly new to mafia. Thanks though.

That is, I gave a reason that your entry shouldn't be seen as scummy and you shot it down by saying you're not really a new player.

I think this is a towntell (scum is happy to accept a townread for whatever reason it's given) but I want Blackstar's opinion on it since he's the one who seems to be hard-scumreading you right now. Ideally I would have gotten Blackstar's opinion before anyone else responded, but it's too late for that now.

[Mimikyu]

I think this is a towntell (scum is happy to accept a townread for whatever reason it's given)

Eh, I would argue that a player almost always gains MORE towncred by criticizing someone's townread of them. You can accept the single townread or you can critique it and receive multiple others.

I am now less convinced of Aubrey being town. Feels more like tryhard scum at this point.

[Gamma Emerald]

@Aubrey: have you actually answered 3 yet? Also, if you like, you can pose a question for the final request slot.

[Ümläüt]

A towntell doesn't become a scumtell just because it can be faked, it becomes a weaker towntell or at worst null.

Granted that scum can criticize townreads on them as well (I just saw this in Micro 635 in fact). It's still

more likely

to come from town.

[Mimikyu]

A towntell doesn't become a scumtell just because it can be faked, it becomes a weaker towntell or at worst null.

Granted that scum can criticize townreads on them as well (I just saw this in Micro 635 in fact). It's still

more likely

to come from town.

Well it's not that it's a towntell becoming a scumtell. It's just a faux-towntell in the first place. I disagree that it's more likely to come from town. Town like being townread too.

[Ümläüt]

Well, you're wrong in this case but I'm not going to keep arguing the point.

Incidentally, RQS is garbage and I'm not going to humor it. The effect of giving everyone a survey to answer is that it saves everyone from having to find their own way to break the ice. Manner of entrance is the best/only way to form reads in the very early game, and having everyone enter in the same manner spoils that.

[The_Jester]

I would argue that a player almost always gains MORE towncred by criticizing someone's townread of them. You can accept the single townread or you can critique it and receive multiple others.

This is just ugly WIFOM territory. I've taken Aubrey's response as genuine town and his latest posts have erased the bad initial impression in my eyes.

[Mimikyu]

Well, you're wrong in this case but I'm not going to keep arguing the point.

Incidentally, RQS is garbage and I'm not going to humor it. The effect of giving everyone a survey to answer is that it saves everyone from having to find their own way to break the ice. Manner of entrance is the best/only way to form reads in the very early game, and having everyone enter in the same manner spoils that.

Well you can't argue it because you don't have evidence. Simple enough. No one should be giving any credit either way for interactions like that. That's a terrible way to find town or scum.