Open 654 | Surrealism - Game over

[Gamma Emerald]

Well, you're wrong in this case but I'm not going to keep arguing the point.

Incidentally, RQS is garbage and I'm not going to humor it. The effect of giving everyone a survey to answer is that it saves everyone from having to find their own way to break the ice. Manner of entrance is the best/only way to form reads in the very early game, and having everyone enter in the same manner spoils that.

I gave everyone a chance: I didn't open with RQS.

[Mimikyu]

I would argue that a player almost always gains MORE towncred by criticizing someone's townread of them. You can accept the single townread or you can critique it and receive multiple others.

This is just ugly WIFOM territory. I've taken Aubrey's response as genuine town and his latest posts have erased the bad initial impression in my eyes.

Except that it's a strictly better play to critique a person townreading you. It both casts doubt on the other person to the town as well as makes you look like you aren't interested in getting townread.

[Mimikyu]

This isn't some corner-case play. It's the clear best play at this point in the game, and it isn't rocket science figuring out that it is.

[Ümläüt]

Mimikyu, I want to drop the point because it's not worth arguing about unless Aubrey is a serious suspect and will only distract from actual scumhunting, not because I don't have a case to make.

Trying to paint my willingness to drop the point as surrender looks bad for you, as does trying to force a scumread on Aubrey even while you take Blackstar to task for doing the same.

[Mimikyu]

Mimikyu, I want to drop the point because it's not worth arguing about unless Aubrey is a serious suspect and will only distract from actual scumhunting, not because I don't have a case to make.

Trying to paint my willingness to drop the point as surrender looks bad for you, as does trying to force a scumread on Aubrey even while you take Blackstar to task for doing the same.

I'm not trying to paint it as surrender, but pointing out it would have been futile if you didn't. And I'm not particularly concerned with how you think something looks for me, especially since I don't think you're town.

Regarding your last point, it's almost as if reads can change as we hear more and get more information.

[The_Jester]

This isn't some corner-case play. It's the clear best play at this point in the game, and it isn't rocket science figuring out that it is.

Even so, I don't get that fake, elaborate feeling from his response. It looks natural.

[BlackStar]

??? when did I say "I'm not scum because i'm new?" Anybody who thinks someone isn't scum because they are new are seriously misguided. Am I misunderstanding you?

It looks like you are.

I wrote

I agree Aubrey's entry felt awkward but I'm chalking it up to new-player weirdness.

You responded

New to MafiaScum and some of your abbreviations, but not exactly new to mafia. Thanks though.

That is, I gave a reason that your entry shouldn't be seen as scummy and you shot it down by saying you're not really a new player.

I think this is a towntell (scum is happy to accept a townread for whatever reason it's given) but I want Blackstar's opinion on it since

he's the one who seems to be hard-scumreading you right now.

Ideally I would have gotten Blackstar's opinion before anyone else responded, but it's too late for that now.

I don't know why you guys keep trying to paint this narrative. Yes I scum read him but it's not a "hard scum read". How could you have a strong scum read on anyone on the fourth page?

[BlackStar]

@Blackstar

What do you make of Aubrey refusing the "not scum because newbie" read I gave her?

On a scale of "more likely than random to be evil" to "SCUM SCUM LYNCH LYNCH" how strongly are you actually scumreading Aubrey? Because I could see an early vote based on the former but you're arguing as if it's the latter.

Like 5. That's higher than everyone else though

[Ümläüt]

@Blackstar

What do you make of Aubrey refusing the "not scum because newbie" read I gave her?

Even though I don't want to argue this point with Mimikyu right now I still want your opinion on it.

[BlackStar]

I don't really think anything of it.

[Mimikyu]

This isn't some corner-case play. It's the clear best play at this point in the game, and it isn't rocket science figuring out that it is.

Even so, I don't get that fake, elaborate feeling from his response. It looks natural.

Well and if we want to call it a gutread that's fine, but let's not pretend it's based on some objective truth. That's where we get into trouble.

[Ümläüt]

VOTE: Mimikyu

I just don't see what could have happened within Aubrey's few posts on page 4 to change Mimikyu's read like that, yet Mimikyu says it's because he "hear[d] more and [got] more information." Aubrey's 91 in particular struck me as towny if anything. He is being quite transparent in his reasoning process and explaining himself clearly. I wish he didn't have quite so many null-reads but it looks as if he is at least trying to sort them.

The interaction of 80, 84, 85 pings me as well.

• Mimikyu seems to misunderstand what Aubrey means by "slanted eyes" and talks as if it means people are sheeping Blackstar
  
• Aubrey explains what he means
  
• Mimikyu responds: "You said he was getting slanted eyes due to his quick assessment of you, and AFAIK I am the only one who did so for that reason," as if that's what he meant all along, when he clearly didn't.

This reads to me as a scum attempt to appear consistent.

I'm a bit suspicious of Blackstar as well but in my past experience (Newbie 1661, Blitz 15) he's looked pretty scummy as town and been an easy mislynch. It's relatively old meta, and it doesn't mean he's town this time, but I'm going to need more than one bad case to read him on.

[Mimikyu]

VOTE: Mimikyu

I just don't see what could have happened within Aubrey's few posts on page 4 to change Mimikyu's read like that, yet Mimikyu says it's because he "hear[d] more and [got] more information." Aubrey's 91 in particular struck me as towny if anything. He is being quite transparent in his reasoning process and explaining himself clearly. I wish he didn't have quite so many null-reads but it looks as if he is at least trying to sort them.

It doesn't take much to change a read early in the game. Aubrey had two large posts on page 4 that both pinged me a bit for different reasons.

The interaction of 80, 84, 85 pings me as well.

• Mimikyu seems to misunderstand what Aubrey means by "slanted eyes" and talks as if it means people are sheeping Blackstar
  This is not what happened at all. He seemed to lump other people in with me as if they were all suspicious of Blackstar for his suspicion of Aubrey, when in actuality I was the only one that expressed this particular sentiment. I'm not sure what you even think I could have meant. In no world did I think people were sheeping BlackStar.
  
• Aubrey explains what he means
  
• Mimikyu responds: "You said he was getting slanted eyes due to his quick assessment of you, and AFAIK I am the only one who did so for that reason," as if that's what he meant all along, when he clearly didn't.

This is not what happened at all. He seemed to lump other people in with me as if they were all suspicious of Blackstar for his suspicion of Aubrey, when in actuality I was the only one that expressed this particular sentiment. I'm not sure what you even think I could have meant. In no world did I think people were sheeping BlackStar nor does my comment state that. I even said that the people didn't feel it was scummy like Blackstar did. Clearly not sheeping.

This reads to me as a scum attempt to appear consistent.

Am I trying to appear consistent? I thought I was explicitly wavering and changing my reads.

[Ümläüt]

It doesn't take much to change a read early in the game. Aubrey had two large posts on page 4 that both pinged me a bit for different reasons

Can you share those reasons?

[Ümläüt]

This is not what happened at all. He seemed to lump other people in with me as if they were all suspicious of Blackstar for his suspicion of Aubrey, when in actuality I was the only one that expressed this particular sentiment. I'm not sure what you even think I could have meant. In no world did I think people were sheeping BlackStar nor does my comment state that. I even said that the people didn't feel it was scummy like Blackstar did. Clearly not sheeping.

I wasn't saying you thought people were sheeping Blackstar, I was saying you argued with Aubrey as if you thought he said people were agreeing with Blackstar (by pointing out that they weren't).

[Mimikyu]

It doesn't take much to change a read early in the game. Aubrey had two large posts on page 4 that both pinged me a bit for different reasons

Can you share those reasons?

I already pointed out some of these things, but the generalizing slanted eyes comment, disliking the Gamma questions, the awkward explanation on his "newness", several "obv" statements for towncred ("Just because someone likes to play scum doesn't mean that they are immediately going to be more likely to become a disengaged townie.").

[Mimikyu]

This is not what happened at all. He seemed to lump other people in with me as if they were all suspicious of Blackstar for his suspicion of Aubrey, when in actuality I was the only one that expressed this particular sentiment. I'm not sure what you even think I could have meant. In no world did I think people were sheeping BlackStar nor does my comment state that. I even said that the people didn't feel it was scummy like Blackstar did. Clearly not sheeping.

I wasn't saying you thought people were sheeping Blackstar, I was saying you argued with Aubrey as if you thought he said people were agreeing with Blackstar (by pointing out that they weren't).

Oh I mean I definitely didn't think that. He seemed to imply people were suspicious of Blackstar, I commented that people actually agreed with his feeling that Aubrey was awkward, but disagreed with the suspicion. This stance feels far from suspicion to me.

[Zachstralkita]

VOTE: BlackStar

I guess I forgot to do this.

[Aubrey]

@Ümläüt:

You'll probably get better reads out of me as the day progresses. We still have players who haven't said much at all, and I'd like to hear what they have to say first.

In regards to Mimikyu, this is starting to look like a bull and red cape problem. I've answered all of your points of suspicion, and most of your points against me are not that strong.

As I've already said you were not the first to not like Blackstar's stance against me (initially). I've already given you the list of the others who demonstrated a similar viewpoint. I don't understand where the confusion is here. this is starting to read like we are all beating a dead horse, and I'm getting tired of repeating myself. The both of you (Mimikyu and Blackstar) continue to think I'm one weird little kid, and no amount of arguing is probably going to change that right now. Moving on,

Yes, I don't care for the Gamma Poll. I find it pointless, minus question 3. You don't and thats cool, so answer the poll and move on. Me not caring for the poll doesn't dictate alignment here. All it does is provide players the ability to blabber about nothing really, and allows them an easy out to make an appearance. Lastly I repeat, talking about your favorite role or alignment is a waste of time. Just because someone prefers a scum role doesn't mean they are going to play town in a disinterested fashion, or vice versa. That mentality isn't good, and if that is the case maybe they should stop playing the game all together. The game is not as black and white as you seem to think it is.

Lastly, I don't think I explained my newness oddly. I stated it clearly, and you originally misunderstood it. Furthermore as I've said again and again, I'm not new mafia so I don't want to be patted on the head and treated as some newbie who decided to swim with the big fish. Hence why I lashed out when Ümläüt thought I was new. AND if you think my first few comments reeked of a newbie, then fine. Even if they did, I'd love to know how they are so scummy. Any alignment can

fluff

, as you all put it especially when it is the first page of day one. My two posts are not much different than the people who just came in, RVP'd, and came back later to talk.

I'm pretty much over this debate, and see little to no end to it since you seem rather sturdy in your beliefs.

[Aubrey]

I forgot to add, you mentioned that you didn't think Ümläüt was town. Care to elaborate?

[Mimikyu]

Keep in mind ping =/= inherently scummy action. It has a lot to do with gut and encouraging others to review and see if they feel the same. I have a feeling it's going to be trouble getting the town to lynch someone like you, since people are often intimidated by those who put a lot of time into their posts. Thankfully the town isn't required for you to die in this setup.

As for why I think Umlaut isn't town, I think you can read my posts and figure out exactly how I feel. Holding your hand won't be necessary.

[Gamma Emerald]

@Aubrey: if you like the question answer it or quote your answer.

[Aubrey]

@Aubrey: if you like the question answer it or quote your answer.

I said yesterday that I agreed with Aristophanes answer for it.

[Gamma Emerald]

Thank you.

[Dunnstral]

Okay, I believe it's time to start RQS. I'll be taking three suggested questions this time, so think of something that could help advance the game.
1: What is your preferred faction: Town or Mafia?
2: What role interests you the most? Does not have to be in this setup.
3: What do you think the differing factions will do to town's chances?
4: REQUEST SLOT
5: REQUEST SLOT

1. I prefer to be mafia as it feels a lot easier to me than being town and I think I'm better at it
2. Not sure
3. Think it doesn't really matter