Micro 647: True Love - Game Over

[Something_Smart]

Otherwise it lets scum know which pairs they can kill.

?

[Something_Smart]

I meant that scum could choose which two people to kill instead of killing one and hoping to get another good kill.

But that's clearly not relevant for multiple different reasons.

What's with the minimalist entrance?

It got my point across as succinctly as possible.

I think you're missing the point of the setup, though.

[Something_Smart]

Yeah but scum need to lynch both T/T pairs to win (so it isn't really protown to hide how they're paired). Town just needs to... stop that.

[Something_Smart]

why not?

I do have some opinions on the correct perception of the setup, but I think I will keep them to myself for the time being. (I might tell them to Leonshade, haven't decided yet.)

[Something_Smart]

Gotta do that classlurk and homelurk

[Something_Smart]

We should be the Cowardly Lion.

[Something_Smart]

why not?

I do have some opinions on the correct perception of the setup, but I think I will keep them to myself for the time being. (I might tell them to Leonshade, haven't decided yet.)

Well I pretty much use genuine opinions about setup spec as scum (see: mislead)

Anyway. Why no RVS?

Because there's enough to talk about without it, and the whole voting system is weird because we're voting for pairs, and we don't want to give the scum a chance to quickhammer. (Also that the person most likely to be scum fmpov is by far the worst lynch fmpov.)

Pedit: Hey Gamma those are good

[Something_Smart]

why not?

I do have some opinions on the correct perception of the setup, but I think I will keep them to myself for the time being. (I might tell them to Leonshade, haven't decided yet.)

Well I pretty much use genuine opinions about setup spec as scum (see: mislead)

Anyway. Why no RVS?

Because there's enough to talk about without it, and the whole voting system is weird because we're voting for pairs, and we don't want to give the scum a chance to quickhammer. (Also that the person most likely to be scum fmpov is by far the worst lynch fmpov.)

Pedit: Hey Gamma those are good

[Something_Smart]

dammit how did that happen

[Something_Smart]

nah bro I worked out the numbers and all

The only given in this setup is that any player with a scum lover must be town. From my POV, the only player who cannot possibly have a scum lover is Leonshade. However the differences are slight and have very little relevance to the game, I just like doing math

[Something_Smart]

6 townies
2 of them have scum lovers = 1/3 chance of your lover being scum

For random other player: (1/3 chance of your lover being scum) * (1/6 chance of other player being scum) + (2/3 chance of your lover being town * 1/3 chance of other player being scum) = 5/18 chance of random other player being scum

@Infinity what didn't you like about my bae's entrance?

[Something_Smart]

Infinity are you scum again

[Something_Smart]

No, I wasn't going to...

I just want to know, was Leon's the first comment that seemed unnecessary and unproductive?

[Something_Smart]

No, I wasn't going to...

I just want to know, was Leon's the first comment that seemed unnecessary and unproductive?

The first one that seemed to be under the guise of doing stuff I think. Everyone else that posted had made at least one productive comment right?

You think I made up that side comment I wasn't going to push why? I could've just ignored leon's post.

Ooooh... maybe it was under the guise of doing stuff

I don't have any real reads, by the way. I'm just poking and prodding to find stuff to talk about.

[Something_Smart]

You didn't notice that he was trying to name the teams instead of scumhunt them?

[Something_Smart]

It was more along the lines of, inb4 I get attacked for my nonexistent push on you.

[Something_Smart]

It wasn't a push.

That's the whole point.

[Something_Smart]

I don't know, "It's too early", "you're latching onto something that's not a scumtell", "you're looking for things to push on", "you're reaching to call him scum for weak reasons"

[Something_Smart]

I wanted to see how you'd react to me just asking that question without stating a read.

[Something_Smart]

@Leon: I'm making my intentions clear now so that it doesn't seem as though I'm changing my story. I get reads and apply pressure through rapid back-and-forths and I often adopt an aggressive mindset of probing for weaknesses; however, that doesn't mean that I necessarily scumread the person in question.

[Something_Smart]

SS is unnecessarily defensive.

Wow lol this is like telling someone "You don't take criticism well"... if they protest, they're proving your point.

Nevertheless, I will ask you what your definition of defensive is, and where you thought I was doing it.

[Something_Smart]

yay for overnight thread explosions!

I dont really like leon that much either

I feel like Leon is fairly awkward as either alignment (based on my extremely limited experience with him) but I liked that he came in and immediately started pressuring me.

Nevertheless, I will ask you what your definition of defensive is, and where you thought I was doing it.

Your 68 and posts after is the definition of defensive.

Way to sidestep the question.

I'd still like an answer btw.

gamma wagon is bullshit

this read progression does look a little weird, I have to admit. Right now I do like Wisdom for town but I'm uber paranoid, and I do understand why scum have to defend their lovers.

If you wanna generalize it like that sure, I agree that scum do things too. But it's scummy to not do things. Therefore doing things is townier than not doing things.

This is a rare specimen of something known as non-logic. (just kidding it's not rare at all ) "Scummy" is not defined by anti-town, nor by things you don't like. It's defined by what scum do and town don't. So it town and scum both do it... it's not scummy.

You would be willing to lynch in every other pair. I'm sorry but this seems incredibly scummy.
VOTE: Wisdom

Uhhh Gamma I think you're missing a step here. If you two are both town, lynching every other pair will win the game for town. So your logic only holds if you don't like/understand his reasons for townreading you. Do you?

infinity, gamma and smart are town

Actually, I thought of something that might be a tell. "If I am town, the first person to townread me early on in day 1 is scum." I can actually think of several times where this is true I should go check it out.

Wisdom's play here isn't similar to his last few scum games, he seems to care more about appearing town in his recent scum games than in this game. (I read Micro 581, Mini 1637 and one other Pokemon game).

This may be true but I'm sure Wisdom is capable of manipulating his meta.

You called a wagon on your nullread bullshit, making an excuse for him by saying he was 16, then conventiently gave a reason to townread him after.

I would've expected town!you to talk about how scum!tenshii makes gamma town

I like this post a lot.

honestly? i didnt think about that till now that you mentioned it

Ok enough of this shit, you're too scummy to be scum

I mean scum would never be this sloppy, if you're trying to find reasons to townread gamma you don't missy hat one.

It's not impossible for that to come from scum but unlikely.

UNVOTE:

But this one is weird :/

I am at:
Something_Smart and Leonshade

Gamma Emerald

and

Wisdom

A Simple Plan and

Tenshii

Creature

and

Infinity 324

I got ninja'd by Wisdom wrt this one.

scum actually make use of the PT to buddy their town lover
sounds like he's succeeding if hes scum

I don't know Creature that well, but this doesn't strike me as a scum!Creature move.

tenshii apparently doesnt even have completed scumgames so meta officially goes off the wisdom

lol

[Something_Smart]

s_s, do you have any reads now other than wisdom?

Creature town, Gamma town, Tenshii scum, and you as town or scum (but definitely not null).

[Something_Smart]

Lol it's a joke because I have such trouble reading Infinity (the last time I was town against him I kept going back and forth between townreading and scumreading him and I'm doing it again here )

Creature's kind of a weak read, he just seems to be trying things and making an effort to solve the game, plus I trust Infinity's read regarding the PT.

[Something_Smart]

relax it's only been two days

I want some content from ASP first.

[Something_Smart]

3 votes arent a lynch
why hesitate

why rush?

Why is tenshii scum, s_s

really weak pushes on me, gamma and wisdom, terrible logic, and lack of anything towny.

[Something_Smart]

it's more than half the number of votes required to lynch

in 1/7 the allotted time

[Something_Smart]

and?

and and?
It's my vote. I'll place it when I want to.

Why are weak pushes and bad logic scummy -_-

because scum need to fabricate cases on townies without real reasons, so they have to use bad reasons.

[Something_Smart]

I'd still like an answer btw.
In post 142, Wisdom wrote:

At your 65* and posts after. You were worrying about a push that didn't exist. Defensive: very anxious to challenge or avoid criticism.

What makes you think I was anxious?

[Something_Smart]

oh hey look who decided to stop by

Why are weak pushes and bad logic scummy -_-

because scum need to fabricate cases on townies without real reasons, so they have to use bad reasons.

You could make the same argument to say wisdom is scum, but that's not really a thing

Town uses bad logic a lot, and it's really not that hard for scum to fabricate reasons that look reasonable

*shrug* in my experience, bad logic and pushes with weak reasoning more often come from scum than on average, at the very least. It also depends on how they react when called out on said bad logic.

[Something_Smart]

What makes you think I was anxious?

Anxious: experiencing worry, unease, or nervousness, typically about an imminent event or something with an uncertain outcome.
You were worrying about a push that didn't even happen.

You clearly know so much about my emotions, you should be a therapist

I didn't want that push to occur (because it was baseless) but based on my experience I thought it likely that somebody would have tried it if I hadn't preempted it. I didn't want to waste thread space and brainpower.

[Something_Smart]

s_s, who is scum

One of Tenshii and ASP most likely. (I didn't like ASP's last post at all.)

However, I think my other reads will be pretty dependent on the flip and thus I don't want to get too much into them before that happens.

[Something_Smart]

s_s, who is scum

One of Tenshii and ASP most likely. (I didn't like ASP's last post at all.)

However, I think my other reads will be pretty dependent on the flip and thus I don't want to get too much into them before that happens.

You think we're ready for a flip?

Almost. I do want ASP and Tenshii to contribute as much as they would like before it to, and that's why I don't want a hammer yet. But by the way this wagon developed, I feel knowing the alignments of its targets is integral to reading people's behavior around it. (Not to mention that I now scumread BOTH players in question.)

[Something_Smart]

ASP and Tenshii.

[Something_Smart]

holy thread explosion jesus christ

for Wisdom to be scum here means that he'd have to have gotten inside my head and make me get pings from both Tenshii and Infinity before he even pointed them out... and if I trust that he's town I can probably trust his townread on Gamma.

so yeah obviously I agree that this is Infinity's scumgame; I'll hammer if neither of them have anything more to say.

Ugh but I'm having paranoia on Wisdom like he very well could have been bussing Tenshii :/ and I know my pair is probably going after a scumflip and I don't really mind so I can say whatever of that crap I want but I don't feel 100% confident betting the game on Wisdom's alignment yet. I'm still ready and willing to hammer though. (Or maybe we should wait for ASP?)

[Something_Smart]

s_s, what specifically about my play is similar to my scum game?

the fact that it pings my gut EVERYWHERE

and you seem to be more interested in pushing agendas than actually figuring things out.

@s_s what's your read on leon

if someone in your pair is scum, then likely scum. if neither person in your pair is scum, then I'll need to look more in depth before coming to a conclusion.

[Something_Smart]

Which agendas have I been trying to push? How have I not been trying to figure stuff out? Imo I've made more effort to figure things out than anyone else in the game.

Why does leon's vote look more to you like a bus than an opportunistic vote on a town pair?

You tried to push Wisdom as scum until you realized nobody was ever going to go along with it. Then you tried to push Gamma instead. All the while you're calling me scum and Tenshii town.

And you're doing these things somewhat independent of your actual purported scumhunting.

The thing with Leon is the Wisdom/Tenshii theory makes a scary amount of sense and seeing a scumflip outside of them would relieve me immensely. If one of you is scum, Wisdom is almost certainly town because as scum he would have had no reason to redirect the lynch off of Tenshii and onto you.

So if you or Creature flips scum, it's sort of PoE but I think lynching Leon and Tenshii should win in any event.

[Something_Smart]

If Infinity is scum and one of SS or Leon is I'd say it is SS.

Fine by me

Leon is creeping me out more and more.

[Something_Smart]

that post didnt contain a hammer

fix

[Something_Smart]

sorry too busy laughing at my own stupid joke lol

why are you rushing me again?

[Something_Smart]

if I want to be useless that's my prerogative.

and if Infinity flips scum, I'm totally okay with being lynched, as I've already stated.

[Something_Smart]

I mean, my main concern is that we haven't heard barely at all from ASP, nor much from Tenshii about Infinity's wagon. So that pair will be hard to sort in light of the flip we get from this lynch.

So if somebody can make me feel better about this concern, then I'll hammer.

[Something_Smart]

But if Infinity isn't scum, then we're up a creek without a paddle.

[Something_Smart]

meh

I guess there's not much here that would help me sort Tenshii/ASP anyway, and I think Wisdom's plan is sound except in the case where Infinity/Creature is town/town and ASP/Tenshii is town/scum (I don't want to autolynch our pair there).

And I know I have a tendency to unnecessarily delay hammering, so...

Fingers crossed.

VOTE: Infinity

[Something_Smart]

Yeah I mean in the final two pairs, yours and mine. I wouldn't feel

that

good about your alignment versus Leon's.

[Something_Smart]

LOL

[Something_Smart]

I can't see scum!Wisdom deflecting a lynch off of town and onto his partner so I think I'm with Leon here.
VOTE: Tenshii

[Something_Smart]

Lol 0/2 and 2/2 at the same time

Thanks for modding mhsmith!

[Something_Smart]

you can release my lover topic; the only objectionable thing in there is that freaking gif

and actually, that's the main reason I had reservations on Wisdom; the fact that he just lock-townread Gamma from pretty early on.

[Something_Smart]

lol I don't even know what Creature was doing.

on Gamma, I was just sheeping Wisdom because I knew they couldn't be scum together anyway.

and sorry about scumreading you Infinity

[Something_Smart]

I guess this game shows the issues with the setup despite 50% EV. I don't think town (possibly including myself) player very well

I mean, if town can correctly identify a town-town pair, the EV is 100%. And we did, so I don't think town played badly where it counted.