Newbie 1741 - Game Over

[nn30]

@Dun where's my shiny reply?

[Titus]

@dunn, I hear you but I am waiting on Shadow. My logic should be clear from my prior posts though.

[nn30]

C'mon fam - make with the talking.

FYI - I'm leaving for a wedding tomorrow morning. It's unlikely that I'll be able to put much effort into any post between then and Sunday morning.

[Titus]

Then at least say intent to hammer so we can proceed with scumhunting?

Also, the procedure for that is bolding VLA in thread.

[Empoof]

@Dunhallym

I have a question for Shaddow voters: does your suspicion of Shaddow come mostly from Shaddow’s posts or to a potential connection with algebra? I think I already know Zito and Titus’s answer but please also answer.

I don't attempt to find partners until I have a flip. My vote is purely on Shadow's actions in the game.

I'm in a similar boat, on shadow for shadow's posts. I'm looking at partners for D2 if we're right but that isn't here yet. I like this lynch more than the algebra lynch.

@nn

I can see the reason behind the votes which are currently on him but I don't feel strongly enough about it to be the hammer.

What do you see when you read through shadow's posts. I'm having trouble identifying your PoV.

@algebra

you caught up yet?

[nn30]

@Empoof - Are you asking why I don't think he's scummy enough for a lynch?

[nn30]

Or, better yet, why I think Algebra is a better lynch than him?

[nn30]

I'm not understanding the question.

[nn30]

@Titus - if we haven't shifted to Algebra as today's lynch by 12pm (~5hrs from now) I will claim intent to hammer on Shaddowez.

[Empoof]

@Titus - if we haven't shifted to Algebra as today's lynch by 12pm (~5hrs from now) I will claim intent to hammer on Shaddowez.

I was having trouble identifying if you thought shadow was scum or not. This helped me understand a bit better.

I'm work for the next 7 hours so I'm on shadow personally until then. I'd need something to happen for me to change at this point

{enter shadow stage left}

[Morning Tweet]

@Titus - if we haven't shifted to Algebra as today's lynch by 12pm (~5hrs from now) I will claim intent to hammer on Shaddowez.

Algebra still hasn't caught up + I'll be busy most of tomorrow so if something happens while I'm gone here's my vote
VOTE: algebra

[nn30]

Intent to hammer Shaddowez

Off to bed now. VLA

[Titus]

Now this is the part where Shaddowez claims his role.

[Dunhallym]

Since I don't have any more reasons not to vote VOTE: algebra
And I'll state it: my worry with the Shaddow vote is that, as I have stated, I don't see why scumShaddow would do what he did if he's not partnered with algebra or nn30 (much less probable). I think algebra's alignment will teach us more on this matter. In addition, I dislike leaving algebra for tomorrow because one of two events will happen: we decide from the start that algebra is tomorrow's lynch no matter what, which is bad play or we finally lynch someone else and algebra will keep being a distraction (at least to me).
I'll elaborate more on that when I have time (probably tomorrow if the day has not ended).

[Xalxe]

Vote Count 1.9

I believe the children are our future. They are also our past and our present. This is how children work in linear time.

shaddowez (4)

: Papa Zito, Empoof, aronagrundy, Titus

algebra (3)

: nn30, Morning Tweet, Dunhallym

nn30 (1)

: algebra

Not Voting

: shaddowez

With 9 alive, it's 5 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2016-10-02 15:42:07)

[Titus]

Hmm... Interesting wagon makeup

[Papa Zito]

FTR I don't have a problem with an algebra lynch.

But when your IC isn't even voting it's like ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[aronagrundy]

@dun
I'm voting shadow mostly for his actions, namely his weak case against titus that he immediately abandoned for unclear reasons

[shaddowez]

Since I'm at L-1 with intent, I'll claim as asked - I'm the big, bad wolf. AKA, a VT.

This wagon composition is pathetic, and I feel bad for town if this is how the game is starting. This is the first game I've ever considered self-voting just to be done with.

IC Note

Self-Voting is generally never a good tactic to use, especially as town. It devoids the town of useful information, especially if it is a hammer and ends up with a thread lock. Technically it is against wincon also, though I've never seen any action taken against somebody that does since it already hurts that team's faction.

There is only one instance I can think of where it may be in the slightest useful, and as that will never occur in a Newbie setup on this site I can go into it after game if anybody is interested.

287 is an absolute shitshow of shadethrowing. Let's take this apart:

1) You used it to white knight me when a wagon developed on me

I never WK you. If anyone had any inclination to read into my questioning of you, it should actually be fairly obvious I wasn't town reading you for a while. At no point do I defend you or say I think you're town. The most I do is say that the discussion between you and Zito is NAI.

2) It's not a fair representation of what happened. It's more accurate to say Zito and I were talking past each other.

30 and 33, 36 through 42, and 44 and 51 are all direct responses to each other, none of which actually do anything to further the game state. Talking past each other would be accurate if you were talking about a third party, with each of you on an opposite side and not listening to each other's POV. Not at all what was happening here.

3) You suddenly acted as if those pages were scummy later, when needing to stop voting algebra.

I unvoted algebra way back in 139, then voted nn30, and didn't come back to these posts until 216 when I was answering empoof. Additionally, I'm

still

not claiming that that interaction was scummy, it's other actions that you've taken that I were pointing out.

This type of sheepish attitude doesn't work for an IC.

This is just BS. There is no right play for an IC. If you think I'm scum because of what I did, the fact I'm IC is irrelevant. If you think the attitude doesn't work for an IC, that's no AI.

Titus is a much stronger player than I am, and knows she can mislynch me (she's managed to get me lynched when I had a confirmed guilty on her), so I would not at all be surprised if this is scum!Titus pushing an easy lynch.

[shaddowez]

So I’ve reread Shaddow and I have several questions/comments.

Titus, this isn't like you....what's your current read on empoof and Morning Tweet?

@shaddowez
You initially scumread algebra, and now (I assume since you're voting for him) nn30. Have your reads on these two changed at all?

I never stopped scum reading algebra, I had unvoted since he was at L-1 and I didn't want a quickhammer that early in the day (same reason I'm not actually revoting him right now). nn30 still reads somewhat scummy to me, but since I don't see him and algebra as a scum team, I feel less strongly about him being scum.

UNVOTE:

I don’t get this: your vote on nn30 came from after he put the l-1 vote on algebra, yet you now feel less strongly about nn being scum because you don’t see him as partner with algebra? Does it mean that you originally suspected nn as algebra’s partner? Or what do you mean here?

I try not to do preflip associatives (linking two scum players together) because if one of them ends up flipping town, that's a lot of wasted time and effort for no good reason. On the other hand, I do tend to look for things that make it unlikely for partnerships. What that means is that initially I may see two people as scummy independently, and then change a read on one based on me thinking it's unlikely the two are partners. Does that make sense?

...snip

@algebra

- did you ever reread Titus, and if so what do you think?

Why do you ask this question specifically to algebra?

Because of this:

going to reread titus and reach into my gut and see what i get when i take my hand out

...snip....

Back to game: Zito already mentioned that he didn’t have to wait on Titus to suspect you, but he had also expressed several times his concern over you in previous posts, so your answer seems overly defensive.
I also hate the unvote from Titus. You mention townTitus but what about scumTitus. If you use meta then why use only part of it?

If I remember correctly, I've only been in one game with scum!Titus, so I don't really have scum meta to go off of. If she's acting differently than most of the games I've seen with her where she's been one alignment, don't you think that's a good enough reason to think she may be a different alignment even without meta of the second alignment?

[Titus]

Wow, so much deflection.

Shaddow should eat rope now.

I'm going to summarize his post.
Titus is wierd but I have no evidence.
I am the easy target as the IC.
I'm not going to vote the counterwagon.
I am a VT.

[shaddowez]

That is L minus 1. The next voter should claim intent to hammer, rather than voting. This tells Shaddowez to claim. It's standard across the site.

Titus, you know you're not IC and this isn't the first time you're doing IC-like things. Considering your statement in 287, it feels like you're doing it for town cred.

algebra got off the hook rather easily.

Granted, it did feel like shadow tried to derail the algebra wagon, so I suppose he got his wish.

I presently do not have intent. Will reread and wait a bit longer so nn and algebra can weigh in.

Can you explain how I attempted to derail a wagon by voting for somebody that nobody else had even stated a scum read on?

I wrote about half a paragraph which was defending Shaddowez. Then I realized I didn't agree with my own logic.

Yep, look at me flailing. Mind showing me where I'm backtracking? Or, define how backtracking can be proven against reads progressing based on new information presented.

...

I'm still hesitant based on this not being the town!Titus I'm used to, but not enough to have a vote there.

UNVOTE:

So he flails and backtracks in response to being told he's flailing and backtracking. facepalm.jpg

I think that the case against shadow is based on two things 1) contradicting himself (Titus meta) and being caught doing so and 2) he flailed in response to being told he was flailing.

So, a few things here. First, I'd be interested in hearing the argument you were going to make defending me, along with what you realized you disagreed with. Secondly, I still haven't had anybody explain how I'm "flailing" - I've been addressing things brought up to me, and if I didn't I'd be accused of avoiding points. Thirdly, I specifically admitted to missing something that was part of my case at the time, so I adjusted my read accordingly - do you disagree that reads should progress with new information, or is it "backtracking" every time somebody unvotes? Finally, there was no contradiction in meta, and I'm not sure how many times I'm going to need to explain that until people understand. I did not use her argument with Zito in my case against her, since I read that specific aspect as NAI. If this still isn't clear, please explain what you think I did so I can address it better.

Catching up, but tbh I'm not a fan of the shadow wagon

P-Edit:

Or, you know, I could still be catching up. Also, yay more misrepping:

I am the easy target as the IC.

[shaddowez]

Dammit, hit submit early because of the P-Edit.

I never changed my read on algebra, as I stated in 243. Since I highly doubt I'm going to get traction with a Titus wagon, I'm definitely comfortable going back there. Additionally, he states he's going to do things (re-read Titus in 234, catch up in 318), and has avoided posting much since the heat died off his wagon.

VOTE: algebra.

This is L-1

[shaddowez]

Wow, so much deflection.

Shaddow should eat rope now.

I'm going to summarize his post.
Titus is wierd but I have no evidence.
I am the easy target as the IC.
I'm not going to vote the counterwagon.
I am a VT.

No witty comeback when you're outright caught in a misrep?

[Papa Zito]

That is L minus 1. The next voter should claim intent to hammer, rather than voting. This tells Shaddowez to claim. It's standard across the site.

Titus, you know you're not IC and this isn't the first time you're doing IC-like things. Considering your statement in 287, it feels like you're doing it for town cred.

I'd take this more seriously if you were around more.


With a VT claim I'm perfectly happy sitting where I am. ALSO I'm loving the competing wagons you guys have no idea.