[Mini 1835] - Everything Is A Lie Mafia 4 (Abandoned)

[Ircher]

Wgeurts pretty explicitly states the roles can be (and probably are) lying

Also before the game starts
I'm double Hated apparently

So you think that the roles are lies, but you don't doubt the double Hated part of your role?

VOTE: SirCakez

This is just super nitpickey, to the point of unnecessarily so.

or to follow any voting restriction players decide.

Let's see if this is true

The Counsel must vote itself at once

This triggered the zero weight vote on The Counsel.

[Leather and Lace]

This triggered the zero weight vote on The Counsel.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't there a significant delay between that post and the votecount?

Why are you not considering that shos might have voted The Counsel to frame BNL?

[Ircher]

Flames is town

Empty read; where did it come from for such a matter-of-fact tone?

[Leather and Lace]

Flames is town

Empty read; where did it come from for such a matter-of-fact tone?

Yeah? So? I do such things all the time.

Why are you not asking about this prior to forming your conclusion?

[Ircher]

This triggered the zero weight vote on The Counsel.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't there a significant delay between that post and the votecount?

Why are you not considering that shos might have voted The Counsel to frame BNL?

1) I think that has to deal primarily w/ mod's schedule
2) I'm not discounting that possibility, but I think it's a set up.

Tbqh, the Counsel is starting to arouse my suspicion as they seem to be discounting the possibility that the mod lied to them almost completely.

Pedit: I tend to make the conclusion first.

[Ircher]

Over the night I've thought about it, and realised that Shos is the best lynch for today.

If he's scum, good. Otherwise, the Counsel lied to us, so we lynch them tomorrow. So {Shos, The Counsel} should be our lynchpool for today, and I'm leaning towards the former. The only way this can fail is if the Mod lied to the Counsel.

@Everyone not voting shos/The Counsel:

What do you disagree about this?

False Dilemna --> We dont have to lynch in those 2.

[Leather and Lace]

Pedit: I tend to make the conclusion first.

And you wonder why you get mislynched as town?

[Leather and Lace]

Over the night I've thought about it, and realised that Shos is the best lynch for today.

If he's scum, good. Otherwise, the Counsel lied to us, so we lynch them tomorrow. So {Shos, The Counsel} should be our lynchpool for today, and I'm leaning towards the former. The only way this can fail is if the Mod lied to the Counsel.

@Everyone not voting shos/The Counsel:

What do you disagree about this?

False Dilemna --> We dont have to lynch in those 2.

That's no dilemma at all. If anything, it's false dichotomy.

And it's also a valid way of putting a highly contentious matter to rest.

[Ircher]

I dont always do that. Sometimes I do the ISO first but other times, I make the conclusion first.

Pedit: Fair enough.

[Ircher]

My read is null; I believe the mod framed them.

This is just not possible

A player and an bility is involved in this for sure : The vote happened some time after BNLP asking us to vote ourselves and the next VC. According to mod, we saw Shos submitting that vote. Even if the name is wrong there is no way the whole vote utility was a predetermined setup plan (cause it happened after BNLP sentence so someone must have activated it for that specific sentence)

This means in someones role pm, there must be something about this, and the action definitely happened - which means the action is in hands of scum as they are not clarifying it.

Don't let Shos escape with that unfinished claim which totally makes sense as scum him. There is wifom involved in this, we agree; but his reaction to the whole interaction was so fake that the counsel believes he is scum for it.

The reason I asked for clarification here was because you said that it was impossible for the mod to frame them, yet your explanation made zero sense in terms of explaining why thats the case. I didn't say it wasn't role-related; I didn't say it wasn't triggered; what I did say was that the mod could've lied to you and therefore framed shos.

Ummm.... what? That totally just flew over my head.

Say it again w/ different terms and more concrete evidence.

I'm saying The vote happened after BNLP told this :

The Counsel must vote itself at once

so unless your suggesting that the mod had this complicated plan to frame someone after people asking counsel to vote themselves, It is related to someone's role pm and abilities (and that person used an action after BNLP request)

In other words because the self vote happened only after BNLP requested it,

it can't be a mod pregame evil plan.

The name "shos" might be a lie though but we don't have a town read on shos to believe that's the case.

Occam's razor only applies MOST, NOT ALL the time. In a game like this, it may not apply often. Your point is 100% contradictory; if you seeing shos was triggered by someone using the fake vote on you, then it was therefore role-related and therefore 100% possible to have been pre-planned from the start. BNLP wasn't accused; shos was. Whether the accusation is true or false matters not; what's more important is the fact that you are being contradictory in order to try to get someone lynched. I understand and can see why you don't townread shos, but your argument based on setup, etc. is totally absurd and incorrect and isn't worth mentioning.

[farside22]

I'm so behind this game and confused.
I'm off tomorrow from work, this game gets my full attention then.

[xyzzy]

right now I think it's way more likely that shos is town and the thing with the vote is somehow not in his control. the assumption that shos is scum and was lying doesn't make any sense, because scum would have absolutely no incentive to not be honest about that, especially once it became clear that the source of the vote would be revealed. therefore, I think it's far more likely that either wgeurts or the counsel introduced misinformation.

[xyzzy]

also it's been like 30 hours since Yume's second prod? so I guess she's probably getting replaced?

[Flames682]

My scumread on shos isn't based on The Counsel's assertion that shos is the extra voter.

[The Counsel]

The reason I asked for clarification here was because you said that it was impossible for the mod to frame them, yet your explanation made zero sense in terms of explaining why thats the case. I didn't say it wasn't role-related; I didn't say it wasn't triggered; what I did say was that the mod could've lied to you and therefore framed shos.

Mod can't lie unless its something decided for the game since pregame. and I agreed "yes mod might have been lieing to me about the name "shos"" but someone - very likly scum had access to an ability to vote like that

I'm fairly sure it wasn't BNLP cause that was stupid of him to request something like that from himself and to put down and invisible vote.

Occam's razor only applies MOST, NOT ALL the time. In a game like this, it may not apply often. Your point is 100% contradictory; if you seeing shos was triggered by someone using the fake vote on you, then it was therefore role-related and therefore 100% possible to have been pre-planned from the start. BNLP wasn't accused; shos was. Whether the accusation is true or false matters not; what's more important is the fact that you are being contradictory in order to try to get someone lynched. I understand and can see why you don't townread shos, but your argument based on setup, etc. is totally absurd and incorrect and isn't worth mentioning.

Noone is using Occam's razor. I see someone used an ability after BNLP telling that and I saw shos doing that. Why should anyone do such an absurd vote you might ask?

They were trying to support our claim that the counsel is tamable by town by voting in a way town (BNLP) requested them. This is the only way the whole situation makes sense. My idea is not based on the setup nor its absurd. I'm saying I saw someone doing an invisible vote after BNLP requested it and their denying doing it - and no one claimed to take responsibility for that vote if it was a mod restriction for them to follow others order.

The fact we saw shos don't make him scum. The way he played , claimed and general play and his reaction to us outing them is scummy.

I call what you did here white knighting and I will come back to this if shos flip scum.

More votes on scum shos please.

[The Counsel]

They were trying to support our claim that the counsel is tamable by town by voting in a way town (BNLP) requested them.

Their agenda was to help us to reduce the heat on this slot - so they can save their extra vote for later game stage.

[The Counsel]

right now I think it's way more likely that shos is town and the thing with the vote is somehow not in his control. the assumption that shos is scum and was lying doesn't make any sense, because scum would have absolutely no incentive to not be honest about that, especially once it became clear that the source of the vote would be revealed. therefore, I think it's far more likely that either wgeurts or the counsel introduced misinformation.

This is setup spec - not scum hunting.

I'm not assuming anything. I saw shos doing that and I claimed it. They made a post like "whaaaaaat? how did you reach that conclusion?" which is obviously their try to stay in the middle ground and its highly suggesting they were involved with that.

This is not based on any information. This is us using an information (which might contain lies) to test him and the information itself). This is pure scum hunting. We reached this conclusion that shos is really scum and the information is absolute truth in this point.

Re-look at his ISO and the timings of their posts and see how they tried to not go rough in any stage. Now be a dear and pressure him for a claim.

[Rylai and Lina]

DEADLINE: 1 day, 21 hours, 58 minutes

FUCK

guys!

everyone give a list of three people they want to lynch in their next post

shos you seem like to have the largest wagon if you want to add anything to your claim do it.

Shos is being scummy as can be

, but BNL is playing scummy and lining up lynches w/o considering the poss. that shos was framed by the mod.

IS shos scummy in your opinion or not?

Why is he scummy ?

If he is scummy why you beleive he is framed by the mod?

~Lina

[shos]

I aleays get mislynched d1
Its like my trust tell
If you lynch me, I am toen xD

Anyway
Counsel - do you have a specific ability that tells you information about the second vote, or is it possible that it is simply a scum messenger being super successful?

[shos]

Flames, you keep saying that but you never actually say why you scumread me

[shos]

Actually ISOing flames makes it really obvious.
You first ever mention of me in your ISO is when you vote me. You never explained why, except for saying it is not for the extra supposed vote. Yet your vote came immediately after that.
The only, single post where you supposedly do is when you say that you think my claim is bullshit, and even there, you sheep the though from someone else.

Point is, you are on the easy wagon. You previously tried to lynch the IC
Why would you do that? It's not like you are guaranteed the mod always lies.

You seek town's fall.

[shos]

Oh and of course VOTE: flames

[shos]

Btw re: your guys discussion on occams razor
I bet the counsel answers no to my question. Occams razor applied here would simply be a scum messenger. That is so easy.

[Rylai and Lina]

simply a scum messenger being super successful

hmm? you mean someone else messaging counsel giving him a fake result?

[SirCakez]

My scumread on shos isn't based on The Counsel's assertion that shos is the extra voter.

^

Top three scum reads are shos, BNL and xyzzy