Mini Normal 1843 - Endgame

[GreyICE]

Oh god no, Rask was hyper obviously town from post 1.

What sort of scum says "folks, I'm changing my playstyle, so deal y'all" and then doesn't even bother to tell you what she's changing her playstyle to or use it to provide excuses or anything? Good god, it would take scum with enormous titanium nads to just run something like that out there with no explanation. Scum always want to explain big things, because they have thought of an explanation to explain why its townie when they post them, and then they want to show off that explanation. She was just like "fuck off with the meta reads meta is fucking stupid and I'm doing something different."

Fucking town as hell, thank you very much.

[Hoopla]

Hoopla sounds far too reasonable and responsible and this is bothering me for some reason.

Is this because I haven't told you you're a good kid recently?

[GreyICE]

@grey. Once you're done questioning about victor. I actually have a question for you but want to wait until you're done asking about victor

Sure, I'll wait for BV to answer.

[Hoopla]

Grey, I have a question to ask you too. But I want to wait until Twoface asks his question.

[BlackVoid]

@Grey, I think GM's point on Jaack was a good one but that was an exception. It was one of the reasons I was townreading her for earlier. But her reads on BBT and Sotty7 are shifty regardless of your alignment. She started out scumreading BBT, then was okay with a completely boring answer from BBT and then said she prefers the Sotty7 wagon. Detailed version is in 565. By the way, have you caught up? I thought if you were caught up enough to have reads on the entire playerlist, you'd notice my wall on GM.

Victor is explained in 281 and 284. Your case assumes that every town that gets townread uses that to "smash home wagons on scum" which is playstyle-dependent, not alignment. I fully agree with him that IAI shouldn't be vigged. IAI literally mentioned that he had business in NYC, etc during the first week of the game. Interpreting that to mean "lurker" is uncharitable unless you think he's lying about it. Now that he's here and caught up, I assume he'll get engaged and people can get an actual read on him. That's very different from the idea of shooting "useless lurkers."

[Raskolnikov]

Well if that isn't a melodramatic ridiculously over the top read greyice I don't know what is
no comment on the rest but who needs to read any further when you can make out a small (nai?) disclaimer to be the rosetta stone

[GreyICE]

Grey, I have a question to ask you too. But I want to wait until Twoface asks his question.

Question Queue

• TwoFace
  
• Hoopla

[GreyICE]

@Grey, I think GM's point on Jaack was a good one but that was an exception. It was one of the reasons I was townreading her for earlier. But her reads on BBT and Sotty7 are shifty regardless of your alignment. She started out scumreading BBT, then was okay with a completely boring answer from BBT and then said she prefers the Sotty7 wagon. Detailed version is in 565. By the way, have you caught up? I thought if you were caught up enough to have reads on the entire playerlist, you'd notice my wall on GM.

Victor is explained in 281 and 284. Your case assumes that every town that gets townread uses that to "smash home wagons on scum" which is playstyle-dependent, not alignment. I fully agree with him that IAI shouldn't be vigged. IAI literally mentioned that he had business in NYC, etc during the first week of the game. Interpreting that to mean "lurker" is uncharitable unless you think he's lying about it. Now that he's here and caught up, I assume he'll get engaged and people can get an actual read on him. That's very different from the idea of shooting "useless lurkers."

I'll be honest, I tend to focus on people I'm scum reading harder than I focus on town reads when I've got 700 posts to read. As a result I've probably skimmed a few of your posts. But honestly your reasoning in 565 is weak. "You should focus more on X than Y" is silly. It basically boils down to "in my opinion X is scummier" and unless you think someone is transparently manufacturing reasons to make reads, it's a point so weak it's non-existent (protip: everyone is inconsistent if you squint hard enough. Yes, even you). I mean honestly your entire case is "she's scum with you" which I know factually isn't true. Sooooo... yeah. It's just factually not a thing that is true. If that's it, I can rest assured whatever else happens you're not mislynching her, so I think we're good on this one.

Hey, wanna see something interesting though? This forum has a feature that lets you see all of a user's posts. Here, let me link you: http://forum.mafiascum.net/search.php?a ... 0&sr=posts

Tell me more about how IAI didn't have enough time to post on say, October 21st. Or 20th. Or 19th. Yep, he definitely didn't seem to have any time.

[GreyICE]

Well if that isn't a melodramatic ridiculously over the top read greyice I don't know what is
no comment on the rest but who needs to read any further when you can make out a small (nai?) disclaimer to be the rosetta stone

Pffft, those are the best rosetta stones. When someone puts a ton of thought into things they produce something that's really structured and sensible and can be totally non-alignment indicative. Little throwaway comments? Those can be awesome.

I mean it also helps you're like obvtown without that, but yeah, you were town from post 1.

[MariaR]

nghhh to many wall posts I cna say I understand and will remember everything that happened over the last 2 pages but that's a lie

[mhsmith0]

Votecount 1.10

GreyICE (5)

Sotty7 , MichelSableheart , BlackVoid , VictorDeAngelo , I Am Innocent L-2

,

Jaack (2)

MariaR , Hoopla ,

MichelSableheart (1)

CloudKicker ,

VictorDeAngelo (1)

goodmorning ,

Sotty7 (3)

Jaack , Raskolnikov , TwoFace ,

MariaR (1)

GreyICE ,

Day one deadline is Wednesday November 2, 8 AM PST. (expired on 2016-11-02 08:00:00)

With 13 alive, it's 7 to lynch!

[/size]

[GreyICE]

Wait what.

No.

Unvote

[MariaR]

Wait what.

No.

Unvote

I must sr you now for voting me smh I hope you understand

VOTE: Ice x2

[MariaR]

UNVOTE:

Didn't think anyone else was gonna be up
What's up ^_^

[GreyICE]

I dunno. I'd like to hear from Michael Sableheart. I kind of feel like you're really town and like I kind of want to lynch Jack too, so I think we're on similar pages.

[GreyICE]

I mean I guess we could karaoke or something.

But we'd probably get lynched for spamming the thread.

[GreyICE]

I mean I guess we could karaoke or something.

But we'd probably get lynched for spamming the thread.

[MariaR]

F is for friends who do stuff together-Aw fine
Do you want to talk to Michael cause you think he's town or just wanna hear what he's gotta say

[MariaR]

I mean I'm always obv town (that's a lie pls mercy)

[BlackVoid]

So, the more I think about this, GM is probably town. I do like her points on Jaack and I think the emotional push on Victor looked townish which means my scumteam theory is probably wrong. There was also something about the way Jaack was grilling MariaR that gave me townvibes.

Making a note to myself to look at Grey/Rask/Hoopla interactions. All of them are weird and there might be something there. The Rask/Hoopla early game cases on each other + Rask voting Sotty7 after he called her scum with BBT and then defending GreyICE + Hoopla's unvote of an L-1 wagon with intent to hammer. There's something there and I need to figure out if that's the team. That's my new working theory.

[VictorDeAngelo]

Hoopla, Sotty: Why Victor? Here we go.

As a veteran irascible asshole, let me assure you of two things. First, you don't necessarily change because you're scum. Second, being townread is simply a tool to lynch scum. If people town read you they're more willing to listen to you, if they're more willing to listen to you, they're more willing to vote with you. Certainly we none of us think Victor is ambivalent about who gets lynched, yes?

So early on Victor was getting significant pressure.

1

A feud with GoodMorning, several votes, people pushing him, etc. He had to defend himself.

2

Then it tapered off. What did Victor do? He tapered off. It's not like any of his comments were particularly insightful or probing earlier, but after the town read? He didn't try and sell a single person on voting GoodMorning. He just was happy to leave his vote there until the "oh gee, I guess I better join the wagon under duress".

3

1

It's a stretch to label a few early votes as significant pressure.

2

If you actually read the interactions with GM you'd see she never had anything more than a rvs post against me, hence why I never had to defend against her.

3

Again, reread that section of the game. Pressure was mounting on GM but I never stopped scumreading your slot. I shifted to your wagon but I've said I'd still back a GM lynch. It's not like I can lynch everyone I want day 1.

If you want to talk since then, he's been the most passionate about how we shouldn't shoot IAI. That's funny. He's been on site since 2013, he's very well aware that many extremely strong players have the philosophy that vigs should default to shooting useless lurkers precisely because they have no content and its hard to read them. This is not a controversial opinion or one that is rarely voiced, it's very mainstream, and IAI is the prime candidate of this town under that. The "at least people would have to take a stance" thing is super weird. Does he think that scum wouldn't bus IAI? It's not like he's playing well at all. It just seems an attempt to preserve IAI's life without actually doing much that would commit him one way or the other. It's a very weird stance to take.

Passionate? Off like one or two posts. Again, you're reaching here. IAI is a bad vig because his death tells us nothing. If you think he's scum (and you seem to be suggesting it quite heavily here) then push his wagon.
Also, if you had reread thoroughly you'd see he was vla for a largish chunk of the game, so the lack of content arguments are null.

More interestingly he didn't even argue the scum should shoot Goodmorning. He just wanted it to be not-IAI, he didn't even think of Goodmorning getting shot. That's very, very odd for someone who is so strongly reading her as scum. He's strongly reading her, but he isn't really willing to push her and doesn't even think of having a vig shoot her? That's downright off.

Well obviously I don't think scum will shoot my scumread :p

Anyway, you were advocating an IAI shot which I think is a bad idea. I'm not having a lengthy discussion on the pros and cons of different vig targets. It should be obvious from my posting that I would like to see GM vigged/lynched.

Interestingly two thirds of this came after GreyIce replaced in so really the extent of the scumread in 602 is he doesn't think I've pushed GM enough.

[MariaR]

I feel the want and urge to sr black but I don't really know why...

[goodmorning]

@grey: i mean, i'm not pushing them very hard. (aka i have been totally ignoring victor for a shitload of pages)

@hoopla: ah, the jokes are back again hmk

She started out scumreading BBT,

bv i was NOT SOLD on either of my main srs at the time as i said


idk why you are just suddenly deciding to unread my posts from your head but i wish you wouldn't

So, the more I think about this, GM is probably town. I do like her points on Jaack and I think the emotional push on Victor looked townish which means my scumteam theory is probably wrong. There was also something about the way Jaack was grilling MariaR that gave me townvibes.

Making a note to myself to look at Grey/Rask/Hoopla interactions. All of them are weird and there might be something there. The Rask/Hoopla early game cases on each other + Rask voting Sotty7 after he called her scum with BBT and then defending GreyICE + Hoopla's unvote of an L-1 wagon with intent to hammer. There's something there and I need to figure out if that's the team. That's my new working theory.

a. what
b. associatives before flips are still silly
c. no, seriously, what
d. 'i just thought about it a little' what
e. small application of pressure = you about-face????????
f. what
g. idgi
h. scum can have good points too
i. and my push on victor wasn't really based in emotions at all
j. just having emotions and getting ragey doesn't mean that's why you're pushing
k. seriously, idgi
l.

what

p-edit @ victor:

Victor's entrance was scummier than anyone else's (including IAI's, while we're going there); it came near the bottom of p2, when there was plenty to comment on, yet he dropped an RV and left. Currently, he's playing the semantic game he accuses others of playing, misrepping Hoopla, refusing to provide much useful content, and attempting to infuriate me.

(in response to sotty asking for a very condensed version)

mmmmk.

[goodmorning]

ftr genuinely trying to infuriate someone is a huge scumtell imo

because it's a really anti-town action but you can pretend it's not your fault

[MariaR]

ftr genuinely trying to infuriate someone is a huge scumtell imo

because it's a really anti-town action but you can pretend it's not your fault

Dam I must be the most scummy person ever in your eyes then cause I find that fun