Newbie 1752: Wave - Game Over

[CloudKicker]

UNVOTE: blake dam wtf the l-1 so fast, also i still think drone is top town. His tone is a+

[CloudKicker]

Checking in, and i see no one even bothered to do a vote analysis. Who was the guy who proposed a policy lynch (Cloud right?) That idiot is most likely town... Kyouko's behavior around the hammer feels town as well, why bother with Blake when you can hammer in the name of policy lynches! Drone and i weren't online at that time, so nothing can be said about us. But Drone should be obvtown, so that should leave the lynchpool for everybody down to Tenshii, Blake, Creature and me. It's easier for me to decide who to vote though:

VOTE: Blake L-1

And we didnt just policy, if you read the game. Rask was also completly behind me with that lynch, hellfire was a goddam great d1 lynch whatever his flip

[CloudKicker]

Overall i think charloux/drone are town, rest is scumpool-> kyouko being mostly in it because of healthy paranoia. Drone outed a line that i thought at the very same moment he said it about blake, it was about him saying rask was a strong town etc and his rationale. It just felt that a scum mindset trying to explain a town read with scum infos than just town trying to explain himself with what happened in the game. For that i will say that i dont believe drone and blake are a team. This might seem like its obvious since they are pushing themselves for the whole d1 apparently but they didnt go all out.

So imo

1-2 prs that can clear themselves
2 mafia who will most likely cc if it happens

Cloudkicker

Drone (probably wont budge for the rest of the game) : Tone is legit best beside mine, i like his content, i like his reactions -> he outed a few scumtells but those are possibly and most likely town

Charloux (will have to reread but i doubt it will change) : I townread turkish slot really hard before charloux came by, i think charloux towntold a bit too but not as mush as turkish + Rask's read on turkish i probably wont push on him on a ml for sure, will still reread tho.
-
Kyouko : Good long posts, but most might seems AI at first but with a reread, its mostly mechanical stuff or infos that are implied. Its great to out them since its a newbie game and i appreciate your posts but i havent seen anything like true genuine town behavior from you. Also, if you are scum, i 100% know that playstyle like the bottom of my pocket, thats pretty much how i scumplay on em: You are active town, you post towny stuff but actually not that AI, you get townread for being right (TvsT) and not rushing (not taking position, asking for more time), you cant get called on for your mistakes since you seems to not make any, you get townread by default -> you are never lynched in 3 way. I dont like your lack of position taking, also there's a few inconsistent things from yesterday, i also have mefiance towards anyone who sincerely townread hellfire. That guy was hella fucking scummy when he tried to quick hammer me 3 pages into d1, for that alone should keep him from being townread whatever the content he then posts.

I would like you to explain you townread on me please and i want you to find scum, stop flip floping so much

Creature : Hard to read this guy, he posts okay stuff but i dont like his general playstyle gamewise, its not inherently towny. Still, he get immunity from me for hammering <3

Tenshii: need more content, he did some good and some bad, will have to reread

Blake: That guy outed severals bad and subpar posts, he did scumtell and it seems like hes a good lynch so far (will have to reread for associations) Also his recents posts logic makes no sens


Drone/Blake not a team -> Blake is mafia in those 2 so far if theres 1 mafia in them.

[Drone]

Cloud. Look at Hellfire wagon again, then look at Tenshii's reasoning for voting me.
Then tell me how Tenshii's probability of being town is higher than Blake's.
I'd also want to know how that hammer from Creature looks fine to you. I've played with Creature before, my first game with him was quite a shocker for me.

[Creature]

{Blake, Desmond, Rask, Tenshii}

Rask died and flipped town.

Desmond has been replaced and so far I like the replacee.

[Creature]

*replacer

[Blakebtb23]

I know not to worry about Raskolnikov's alignment on day 1, what I've been looking for is those who go with them the most. In our case, Tenshii and Blake.
After the flip, I became sure that it's almost guranteed that one of them is scum.
Siding with a globally agreed town and then nking that player is a smart way to earn town points.

@Creature
Why did you vote Tenshii so quickly? If you explain as much detailed as you can, it will help me tons.

@Kyouku
Don't know about Char, but I'm getting a hint about Creature.

@Blake
Who's Tenshii's scumbuddy in your opinion? Assuming that Tenshii flips scum.

If Tenshii flips scum then I think kyouko is town because of his writeup on me/tenshii. Cloud and Drone are also town for me right now. That leaves Charloux and creature, so I would say it'd be Charloux, who is the only person I could possibly see paired with tenshii besides me. Charloux voted for me over tenshii and also asked me to claim my role. That is why I don't think tenshii is scum, it only makes sense for him to be paired with me, and since I know I'm town then it's hard to see him being scum.

So if you all still can't get off the tenshii/blake wagon, please lynch tenshii first. I think it's 40/60 he flips scum. If he does, then i'd probably be lynched next day, which id be ok with as town because we traded 1 town for 1 mafia. If he flips town then I hope it'd be clear that I am also town and then we don't mislynch 2 towns. If you lynch me first then you might get 2 town mislynches which would lose us the game.

[Creature]

Tenshii vote wasn't because of the nightkill. I think he's more likely scum.

[CloudKicker]

Cloud. Look at Hellfire wagon again, then look at Tenshii's reasoning for voting me.
Then tell me how Tenshii's probability of being town is higher than Blake's.
I'd also want to know how that hammer from Creature looks fine to you. I've played with Creature before, my first game with him was quite a shocker for me.

i will have to eventually

[CloudKicker]

Tenshii

Spoiler:

PPL he voted
19 Rask TOWN
22 Cloud TOWN
29 TKD [Leaning town]
199 Hellfire TOWN
291 Drone [A townread ]
565 Hellfire TOWN

I thoughts on him with reading his iso: It feels like he actually tried to get hellfire to contribute and towntell, he also kept talking about a player who had no content but didnt fos them for being inactive, he just wanted content and not get an easy lynch. This is prob town imo and the more i read the more i think we are on the wrong track and mafia are in the town block

[Creature]

Is there a townblock?

[CloudKicker]

Townblock was rask me and possibly tkd, i will have to reread the guy

[Tenshii]

Creature why did you hammer without giving me an opportunity to push Tenshii further? There was still plenty of time to deadline at that point, at least I thought so.

@Creature, Why did you dodge this Creature? Also, explain your progression from townreading Rask to scumreading her?

What posts specifically are you referring to when each of these events are occurring? Quote them. Where are you at in regards to Drone/Charloux now? Without regard to any other reads, i.e. because you scumread me and Blake, Drone is town.

Almost forgot about this with the night cycle. Hopefully the above post with all the post links gives you an idea of what I was reading when I saw these events. I can only be sure of Cloud, and he is town. Charloux still hasn't posted enough to give me an idea of where he's at, but I was satisfied enough to postpone him for D2 after his 575. Drone feels town but he could be deceiving me. This is why I continue to question Drone as he votes for Blake. If Drone is the scum and he just sheeps me he can blame MLs on me.

Why are you townreading Cloud? That 575 basically gave you no info, why were okay with that? Is there something more to Drone being town than "feels?"

UNVOTE: Blake I think he should claim regardless

Why should he claim?

VOTE: Tenshii
I don't like Tenshii's low activity.

Not everyone is going to be able to be logged on everyday.

I'd also want to know how that hammer from Creature looks fine to you. I've played with Creature before, my first game with him was quite a shocker for me.

Then what are your scumreads?

[Tenshii]

@Mod, V/LA until Saturday, Nov 11th.

[Creature]

I thought Day 1 was pretty much finished already.

Also, I wasn't scumreading Rask, but I wasn't reading him as strong as my other townreads.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Kyouko : Good long posts, but most might seems AI at first but with a reread, its mostly mechanical stuff or infos that are implied. Its great to out them since its a newbie game and i appreciate your posts but i havent seen anything like true genuine town behavior from you. Also, if you are scum, i 100% know that playstyle like the bottom of my pocket, thats pretty much how i scumplay on em: You are active town, you post towny stuff but actually not that AI, you get townread for being right (TvsT) and not rushing (not taking position, asking for more time), you cant get called on for your mistakes since you seems to not make any, you get townread by default -> you are never lynched in 3 way. I dont like your lack of position taking, also there's a few inconsistent things from yesterday, i also have mefiance towards anyone who sincerely townread hellfire. That guy was hella fucking scummy when he tried to quick hammer me 3 pages into d1, for that alone should keep him from being townread whatever the content he then posts.

I would like you to explain you townread on me please and i want you to find scum, stop flip floping so much

Hellfire was obviously immature. Anyone should have been able to see that, but there were some people who thought he was faking it. I could tell he was being genuine and that is why I was sure he was town before he made his claim.

The specific position that I've been taking since I noticed their interactions was that Tenshii and Blake are the scum. This is also the scum hunting that you say you want me to do. I'm not flip-flopping, I'm just paranoid that Blake's lynch was too easy. He was at L-1 before we'd even heard from Tenshii on d2.

My town read on you initially was as simple as "Cloud vs Hell" is definitely TvT. Neither player, as scum, benefits from such a wild argument. Drone pointed out a while back something like "Ive never seen something of this scale. Hard to get a read on anyone but those 2" (paraphrased since I'm on phone). This post is what made me think that mafia is outside of Cloud/Hell and is trying to sneak through day 1 on an easy wagon.

As for how I play, mechanical is how I am. I struggle with emotions. There's nothing more to it than that

[Blakebtb23]

UNVOTE: Kyouku
I like Kyouku's posts more and more, specifically when he said he's paranoid about how fast the votes on me were piling up

Checking in, and i see no one even bothered to do a vote analysis. Who was the guy who proposed a policy lynch (Cloud right?) That idiot is most likely town... Kyouko's behavior around the hammer feels town as well, why bother with Blake when you can hammer in the name of policy lynches! Drone and i weren't online at that time, so nothing can be said about us. But Drone should be obvtown, so that should leave the lynchpool for everybody down to Tenshii, Blake, Creature and me. It's easier for me to decide who to vote though:

VOTE: Blake L-1

Charloux's lynchpool is the same as mine atm, and I know I am town so that leaves tenshii creature and charloux.
Charloux has twice asked for claims, from hellfire and me, well before it was time to claim. He did not even have a vote on either of us when he asked for the claim, and I was L-2.

Tenshii's latest post has upped his scum possibility in my eyes a ton, he ignored all the accusations against him and asked 4 seperate questions, then went v/la for 3 days.

No one can pressure Tenshii right now so i'm going to pressure Charloux
VOTE: Charloux
Why are you so anxious for people to claim? Day 2 just started
Why vote and push for me instead of Tenshii?

[Charloux]

If nothing changes, i think Hell should claim around 1day before the end

You were L-1, because my unvote didn't happen because i stopped scumreading you. And what's the difference between claiming now, or claiming 1day before the deadline? Oh yeah, town won't have enough time if you decide to claim PR!

[ssbm_Kyouko]

,

[ssbm_Kyouko]

My phone wasn't letting me type words just now but the comma showed up. Reset my phone.
Tenshii, the reason I was satisfied by 575 was that Charloux was Willing to go after someone besides Hell. His vote on Blake is probably what prompted me to look back on a few players in iso and got me on the trail of Blake+Tenshii. See my 690 for why I tr cloud. Drone was one of the first if not the first and perhaps the only player to try to diffuse the situation between cloud and hellfire when it was getting out of hand.

[Blakebtb23]

My phone wasn't letting me type words just now but the comma showed up. Reset my phone.
Tenshii, the reason I was satisfied by 575 was that Charloux was Willing to go after someone besides Hell. His vote on Blake is probably what prompted me to look back on a few players in iso and got me on the trail of Blake+Tenshii. See my 690 for why I tr cloud. Drone was one of the first if not the first and perhaps the only player to try to diffuse the situation between cloud and hellfire when it was getting out of hand.

So does it not make sense that scum would want to keep Hellfire around? I stated this in this post before:

I dont think anyone understand that hellfire is getting lynched this game, he is never going to be night killed this scummy no reads and a vanilla claim on L-1

Hmm now that I think about it, if hellfire is a vanilla townie, scum would want to keep him in the game and not lynch him tonight because
1. he is a vanilla townie, mafia can pressure a potential pr player to be lynched/claim role today instead
2. They know he is a vanilla town so they can never nightkill him and get a better shot at killing a pr player
3. Due to the possibility that hellfire is a experienced player pretending to be newbie, scum knows that hellfire will most likely be lynched eventually and they can let the other townies do that work some day in the future.

So if this is correct we can look at who is protecting hellfire because i think it would be in scum's interest to protect hellfire whether he is town or scum.
Rask and drone both protected him. I think in rask's case rask was a town that got the read off hellfire's plea that he is also town, and then accused drone because she had a genuine read on him being mafia.

Alternatively, Hellfire is a very experienced scum and is playing a character, I agree with cloud that we should not rule out this possibility yet.
As of now I would be fine with lynching hellfire if we don't have a strong mafia read, because I believe there is a legit (~35%) chance that he is scum, but I would rather try to lynch a different mafia that we are more sure about

So let's look at it from the POV that Charloux is scum and I am town. Before posting 575, Charloux knows Hellfire is probably getting lynched, but he knows the only other chance of someone getting lynched is me. Charloux knows me and hellfire are town, and he would obviously want me lynched over hellfire because hellfire was a near guaranteed lynch/unproductive town player in future days. So by voting me he either A: Gets a better town player lynched and saves a town that will surely be lynched in the future, or B: gains towny points in day 2 because the other town notices that he did not vote for someone that flipped town.

From my POV on the hellfire, I think hellfire is likely to be town but there is a chance he is scum, so since we didn't have a better read at the time, it was a much better and safer vote to vote hellfire rather than gamble on accidently lynching a productive town/outing a power role

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I see what your POV was, but I took raskol's advice to be true for granted. I think no lynch would have been better than hellfire (because I had no doubt he and Cloud were town). With him alive we'd be at 8 alive and 5 to lynch which makes it much harder for scum to influence mislynches. I think the 3 points you made in 325 aren't valid. For 1, it is harder for scum to push on town when there are more town alive. 2, the chance of mafia NKing a pr player is the same whether or not Hellfire is: alive and known vanilla, or: dead. Either way, mafia has 6 targets. I don't acknowledge 3 as a possibility, but I understand that some people disagree with me on this, and thinking he was faking is NAI to me.

[Blakebtb23]

I see what your POV was, but I took raskol's advice to be true for granted. I think no lynch would have been better than hellfire (because I had no doubt he and Cloud were town). With him alive we'd be at 8 alive and 5 to lynch which makes it much harder for scum to influence mislynches. I think the 3 points you made in 325 aren't valid. For 1, it is harder for scum to push on town when there are more town alive. 2, the chance of mafia NKing a pr player is the same whether or not Hellfire is: alive and known vanilla, or: dead. Either way, mafia has 6 targets. I don't acknowledge 3 as a possibility, but I understand that some people disagree with me on this, and thinking he was faking is NAI to me.

Okay I understand now why point 2 was wrong, but I still think point 1 was valid. Mafia knows he is vanilla townie and he will probably get lynched a future night, so they can gamble on trying to lynch/out a PR or a good town instead of gaining a mediocre mislynch.

I now agree no lynch would have been a better option but for some reason no one brought it up as a serious option after I posted that post.

What do you think about Charloux, do you think there's a chance you're wrong about me and think that he is mafia?

[Drone]

NL day one? Nope. Not gonna give scum that advantage.

[Drone]

Can't believe you're thinking that