Open 657: JK9++ (Game over)

[Creature]

Mafia 1-shot Bus Driver can bus drive himself with someone else.
Mafia JOAT could strongman.
SK could have strongman abilities.

[Creature]

KOP
SAJ
ScumDeersAreVeryTasty
Tiger

[Creature]

Who's most likely town?

[Creature]

I think SDAVT is least likely to flip town.

[Tiger moth]

33 46 215 220 looks like a bad attempt at making a case towards MDS
263 pointing out that MDS is setting up a possible future bus on Klingon (town)
270 seems like a back out of the case she was setting up on MDS
341 still pushing MDS and a slight nod at Kling
351 still refusing to acknowledge the possibility of Town!MDS
371 Town read on Alban (scum)
689 724 725 The start of the big push on me (town). I will come back to 724 later.
850 Half of her "could vote" players are town and she has a "won't vote" on scum Alban.
894 Added town!spade to could vote list.
1100 all her top voting list is town (excluding bang)
1138 1158 pushing on Klingon (town)
1162 wants to flash wagon me (town) which is a bad choice, period, on anyone.
1431 only now that we are starting to claim does tiger actually read the PRs as town

Above is my quick thoughts on Tiger and the way i am reading her is Scum but ill wait to vote to see what peoples thoughts are.

The first 3 posts you quote were minor things that happened right at the beginning of the game. Putting a gut feeling into words really. Not sure why you included 220 there.
263: Yes, I did say that. So...?
270: I admitted that I misread part of her post. How is that backing out of a case which I hadn't even made?
341: Yes, I was still explaining myself to MDS and I made a comment on Klingon. Why is that a problem to you?
351: We weren't getting anywhere with that discussion and it was time to stop because it was becoming a distraction. I'd said in my previous post it was a only a weak scumread so you're wrong to say that I was refusing to acknowledge the possibility of MDS being town.
371: Yes, I had a town read on alban. So... ?
689 724 725 Yes, I made a case on you.
As for the next few posts you link, I guess they prove I'm not omniscient.
1162 My comment about the flashwagon was a reply to Creature's 1161 and I said it was a non-starter, which is the opposite of what you are saying here.
1431: Despite the impression you're trying to give here, I think Lane is the only read that I've really changed.

This case seems to boil down to the suggestion that I'm scummy for not knowing players alignments in advance, which doesn't make sense, plus a few things SAJ has made out to be other than they actually were. Much of it is just statements of things I did without saying why he thought they were scummy.

[Secret Agent Jin]

So let me get this right, your whole arguement against my reading you is "I did that stuff, so? Is that a problem?" It isnt about precognition, its about how all together you pushed on town, had reads against town, and for scum. Plus you only commented on the points you wanted, you skipped the whole section about your votelist against town. If you look at the overtone of your posts, you pushed against town and wrote off scum. Also, what did i make out to be other then they were, what posts did i twist?

When it comes down to it, you did start to make a case against MDS and noted that she made it possible for her to bus Klingon like those two were a scum team. You did push on town and your whole counterargument is "yes, i did everything you said and what does it matter?"

[MiniDeathStar]

ScumDeers should be back soon and deliver his awesome catchup. Hopefully.

I wonder where lane vanished though. Kind of want his opinion right now, too.

@Tiger moth:

I don't think Jin is mafia. Sounded too uninformed and those things are difficult to fake. He could be an SK, but somehow I don't see SK!Jin shooting alban. Alban makes most sense as SK!bang and SK!Deer. I think Jin is town. He's just a little bad at this.

@Secret Agent Jin:

Townreading the scum and scumreading the town isn't a strong tell. It's a mistake that happens often when scum is playing well and town poorly (and let's be honest, town was awful on Day 1). Besides, I myself was townreading alban for a while until he went stealth, at which point I was convinced he was either a bullet magnet PR or scum. Charlie, Gamma, Spade were all incredibly scummy. I don't think you can make a case against someone based on the accuracy of their Day 1 reads, especially in a difficult game like this.

Ignoring Jin and Tiger moth as suspects, who do you think is most likely scum?

[MiniDeathStar]

Scum Meter
Charloux
Secret Agent Jin
Creature*
lane0168*
bangthemafia*
Tiger moth**
Kop**
ScumDeersAreVeryTasty**

town

|

~town

|

null

|

~scum

|

scum

Zero or two of {Creature, lane, bang} are scum.
One of {Tiger moth, Kop, ScumDeers} is 100% scum (assuming town!Jin).
If two of {Creature, lane, bang} are town, then Tiger moth, Kop and ScumDeers are all scum.

[MiniDeathStar]

I think if any of Kop, Tiger moth and Deer flip town, we should be looking to lynch in the power role claims tomorrow.

[MiniDeathStar]

I think Charlie is a super juicy kill for the mafia atm so I think lane should jail him. At the very least it'll cause the mafia to expend their stong kill if lane is town, because no way mafia is killing lane or any unconfirmed power role tonight if we lynch a villager.

Tiger moth, Deer, mind if I VOTE: Kop?

[Secret Agent Jin]

I think if two PR is scum then it would be Creaure and Lane and the scum in the VTs is Kop. If all PRs are correct claims though then we have our scum and sk in the VTs. I have a long day tomorrow so ill try hard to ISO Kop and get back with my ideas.

[MiniDeathStar]

Do you think it's more likely scum be in the VTs or the PRs? Honestly Kop and Tiger moth come across as more competent people than to both claim villagers as a team, knowing there's only one surviving villager.

ScumDeers is very unlikely to be mafia given Ted's play on Day 1. I've said it before but I'll repeat that the push on alban didn't look like bussing or distancing. It's not like alban was in any serious danger, not to mention Ted didn't even want Spade mislynched along with alban. But it does make sense if Ted was bulletproof SK; not worried he'd be NK'd by the mafia, and killing his scumread to thin out the mafia team (and prevent being endgamed early along with the village).

So like, if SD is not the serial killer, he's almost certainly a villager.

I've said why I think Jin is town.

It's possible one of {Kop, moth} is mafia and their partner + the SK are amongst the power role claims.

Lynch one of those two today imo.

[Tiger moth]

Plus you only commented on the points you wanted, you skipped the whole section about your votelist against town.

I addressed them here:

As for the next few posts you link, I guess they prove I'm not omniscient.

Why is it scummy for me to add Spade to my votelist but not for you to scum read him?

Also, what did i make out to be other then they were, what posts did i twist?

351, 1162 and 1451. I already said why.

[lane0168]

Scum Meter
Charloux
Secret Agent Jin
Creature*
lane0168*
bangthemafia*
Tiger moth**
Kop**
ScumDeersAreVeryTasty**

town

|

~town

|

null

|

~scum

|

scum

Zero or two of {Creature, lane, bang} are scum.
One of {Tiger moth, Kop, ScumDeers} is 100% scum (assuming town!Jin).
If two of {Creature, lane, bang} are town, then Tiger moth, Kop and ScumDeers are all scum.

How are you getting zero or two? What if it's just 1?

[Tiger moth]

@Tiger moth: I don't think Jin is mafia. Sounded too uninformed and those things are difficult to fake. He could be an SK, but somehow I don't see SK!Jin shooting alban. Alban makes most sense as SK!bang and SK!Deer. I think Jin is town. He's just a little bad at this.

I think it was 406 that made me think he might be linked with bang, but that only applies if bang is mafia too. Apart from that I don't see much to link him with others apart from his mindset that people should know who is town or scum, which feels more groupscum. Not quite sure how to explain that better. Other than that he just feels individually scummy.

Tiger moth, Deer, mind if I VOTE: Kop?

I'm fine with Kop if we're voting for a VT. I don't see Deer as scum.

I'm going to do a vote count before voting.

[lane0168]

Scum Meter
Charloux
Secret Agent Jin
Creature*
lane0168*
bangthemafia*
Tiger moth**
Kop**
ScumDeersAreVeryTasty**

town

|

~town

|

null

|

~scum

|

scum

Zero or two of {Creature, lane, bang} are scum.
One of {Tiger moth, Kop, ScumDeers} is 100% scum (assuming town!Jin).
If two of {Creature, lane, bang} are town, then Tiger moth, Kop and ScumDeers are all scum.

How are you getting zero or two? What if it's just 1?

Nvmd

[lane0168]

VOTE: kop

[Creature]

If you still think I am scum, I can only be scum with you or MDS.

[lane0168]

I don't think you're scum with me. I think it's possible with MDS, or you're serial killer who did shoot, and MDS is lying scum.

Either way I'm thinking we kill kop and let these night actions play out

[Creature]

I need the VC.

[Creature]

VOTE: Kop

L-1

[Creature]

It'd be pretty sad if we got the true VT there.

[MiniDeathStar]

Um that was fast. UNVOTE: Kop.

I want to see what bang and SD think about this.

I want to hear Kop's last thoughts before someone hammers.

[MiniDeathStar]

If you still think I am scum, I can only be scum with you or MDS.

You can be scum with bang or one of the villagers.

Or you can be SK with another scum hiding amongst the PR claims.

[Creature]

Town

Mini

Bang

Gamma

Twisz

Null

Secret
Tiger

Kling

Charl

Scum

Spade

Creature