Mini 1856 - This Mafia Game is for pieguyn (Game Over)

[Aeronaut]

VOTE: pie

Confscum

[Aeronaut]

UNVOTE:

[Aeronaut]

Im still in the middle of thanksgiving #3, but I'll be around tomorrow to bring holiday cheer! Until then don't expect much from me

[Aeronaut]

I'm on page ten, responses/game solving coming soon

[Aeronaut]

Here i am, bitches.

Alright. So I'm going to go ahead and

claim Miller.

Believe me or not, I feel like I probably should claim now because otherwise I'm inevitably going to get investigated, and then that's my fault so fuck that.

The rest of my role is pretty powerful, which is probably also why I'm a miller. Also, because GIF hates me.

I am claiming backup innocent child.

this is not a joke or a gambit or whatever, this is a serious claim. the specific function of the role is that if an IC dies and has not used their ability, I'll inherit it (meaning, I don't get anything if an IC dies after they reveal). why am I claiming?

1. I expect that this setup is a huge clusterfuck, and probably role madness, and I want at least some setup-related info on the table early. moreover, I don't mind outing my role since it is not, in fact, a confirmed-town role and besides that it doesn't do anything at all. I don't really have anything specific in mind for where it's possible to go from here, before anyone asks, I just see absolutely no reason it's worth it to not claim.

2. I preempt that if I was to claim this later, people would go "lol nup fake role". to avoid stupid shenanigans, I would rather get it out of the way now.

also,

vote: Aeronaut

This is probably a true claim. I don't see any scum motivation for ever mentioning this, especially since it's so easily verifiable in the future.

I am claiming backup innocent child.

this is not a joke or a gambit or whatever, this is a serious claim. the specific function of the role is that if an IC dies and has not used their ability, I'll inherit it (meaning, I don't get anything if an IC dies after they reveal). why am I claiming?

1. I expect that this setup is a huge clusterfuck, and probably role madness, and I want at least some setup-related info on the table early. moreover, I don't mind outing my role since it is not, in fact, a confirmed-town role and besides that it doesn't do anything at all. I don't really have anything specific in mind for where it's possible to go from here, before anyone asks, I just see absolutely no reason it's worth it to not claim.

2. I preempt that if I was to claim this later, people would go "lol nup fake role". to avoid stupid shenanigans, I would rather get it out of the way now.

also,

vote: Aeronaut

Um
I've heard this was fakeclaimed in Wake's RM game

So... do you think it's a fake claim or are you just throwing shade at this post?

Just because it was fake claimed in one game, why does that affect whether the claim is true here? If it doesn't, then why mention that?

"Do I know these people?"
pieguyn: Seen them
Varsoon: Played with them
Luna Fox: Seen them
Gamma Emerald: Me!
Nahdia: Kinda
Wisdom: Played with them, but they don't think I know them still
drealmerz7: Kinda
SirCakez: Played with them
Aeronaut: Played with them
beeboy: Seen them
Dwlee99: Barely seen them
pisskop: Eh
mhsmith0: Kinda

I don't understand what the point of this post was.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
This is beeboy as scum. IIRC it's his only scum game so far on MS. it's old so not 100% but MUCH different tone and feel to his posts. Beeboy sounds here like he usually does. Therefore probably just town.

How does this one game where Beeboy is scum make him look this townie to you? Your townread on Beeboy is weird, and for the wrong reasons.

Oh btw me, Nahdia, Cakez and Dwlee are an official town block

VOTE: Luna fox

My problem right now is like almost everyone who's posted has posted something townie, but they can't all be town
And I highly doubt all of the scum are just in the people doing nothing

so
P-edit: actually
VOTE: pisskop

Both these posts (especially the second one) sounds like someone making excuses for not scum hunting. Why did Luna and then Pisskop look noteworthy to you at this point?

Vote gamma with me.

Aero thoughts? His opening has kinda sucked too IMO.

My opening was fantastic and funny.

[Aeronaut]

Hm
Luna for blind spot scum
VOTE: Luna Fox

Blind spot scum? Clarify what that means.

One that's slipping past everyone else

Well I feel like at least Pie was questioning her and I feel like a few other people, so I don't understand why you feel like she's slipping past everyone else.

cakez is taken in by the jelly monster.

aero is a lurker fuck as scum

Misrep, I'm a lurker fuck all the time

[But in reality, you of all people should know that's not true. Go read Pariah's or 180 and tell me that I'm not just an overposting hyperactive piece of trash]

woah owah owah woawhhahahhh

what happened?!?!

okay, from the top!

I vote pieguyn, someone I don't even know, because it's RVS and game is named for him so I figure, hey, a tribute RVS vote!

In #17 I replied to #13 without having read 14-16, and then was gone until now when I came back and read 14 onward...

and

15, 16, 18, woah woah woah, scummy and scummier!!

Those votes are literally just as RVS as yours was. What are you talking about?

and then right after the most scummy pieguyn vote comes:

Also as a side note on one hand I am incredibly happy with my role pm this game on the other hand I am 99% sure no one will actually believe me when I have to claim.....
So yeah just mentioning this now.

causing me to VOTE THEM RIGHT NOW OMG

VOTE: beeboy

and I continue on...

beeboy suggests townbloc ppls - scummy

I took it as a joke. Can you tell me why that would be scummy to you

I'm reading beeboy and smith as possible buddies as of the top of page 4...

What posts indicate that?

causing me to VOTE THEM RIGHT NOW OMG

What dont you like about beeboy's soft?

everything, on so many levels - it reeks to high heaven, as they say, makes the belly churrrrrrn

to find the words...ummmm....

First of all inherently softclaiming at this point is a bad move. But I don't read it as town at all. Yes, he could be happy that he is VT, and for some reason saying no one is going to believe, but, regardless of any of that, I read it that he means to disclose that he has a role of somesort (but why would you do that as town?) - and THEN goes on to set the precedent of no one believing it when he HAS to claim. The wording itself reeks " when I have to claim" instead of "if I have to claim" - to me little things like that are often (not always, but very often) scum-dications.

I don't know if I'm being clear. It's so blazingly scummy to me. I'll try to put it better if that doesn't suffice.

In #144 you said you're town reading pie. What changed? because when you were town reading her, it was still right after the claim.

[Aeronaut]

@cakez To be perfectly honest, because I read my Role PM drunk and didn't realize I was a miller before like yesterday

[Aeronaut]

WOW
FIREBRINGER CAN PISS OFF FOR MAKING ME THINK I CAUGHT A SLIP

Firebringer?

i iso'd aero

Hahahah Wis can be town

Nahdia dropping an unexplained vote my direction after Dwlee okay's the wagon is something I can look over, like, "Okay, hm. Sure. Maybe there's something going on there."
But Beefboy sheeping after I call out the Aero sheep? Poor form.
Notably, Drealz didn't even answer me yet despite replying in thread twice, and you'd think someone so giddy would care to say something when directly addressed.
VOTE: Drealz

Stop talking about things that aren't thing game.

This feels really forced to me. Varsoon, are you scum?

Ya the fact he won't read anything except for ISOs of cherry-picked people is a no-no
Wis ya fucked up
VOTE: Wisdom

Oh please. Wisdom clearly isn't trying in that post, which is NAI at best. You insisting that he's "Cherry picking ISO's" makes it sound like he read more than one player in-depth and ignored everyone else, when in reality he read my two shitposts and voted me, probably because i've made two shitposts

I just don't see the scum incentive what Wisdom is doing.
It probably is too early to read him right now but /shrug

scum's incentive is to sew doubt, confusion, fear, mistrust, contention, frustration so that town demoralizes and self-destructs in a shitstorm of awfulness

is he doing that? he seems to be trying!

How?

also,

vote: dwlee

I was town reading Dwlee. What looks scum to you?

@Cakez: I had to see an answer before laying a vote down. Sometimes, shitty scum is just shitty scum.
Look at this. Drealmerz has shit up over half the pages so far with discussion that's tertiary to the game at hand.
When asked to get back on point, he doesn't at all, skirting quickly around a question about his alignment, directly, here and now, as if it were an awkward thing to engage with.
Then, when called out on that, he quickly goes into attack mode against a slot he had no previous qualms with.
Curious, no?

Notably, Drealz didn't even answer me yet despite replying in thread twice, and you'd think someone so giddy would care to say something when directly addressed.
VOTE: Drealz

Stop talking about things that aren't thing game.

I actually only saw it when I went back over (missed a few posts actually) and read, and was like "mehh" to answering it

I mean...really? Looks like you're just fishing to make shit up too.

Looks like you're just blowing smoke and making the thread a pain in the ass for people to read.
Insisting on discussion that's only tertiary doesn't help in the slightest. You want to go have a mafia discussion thread? Don't do it here.
Focusing on the game is hardly 'making shit up', and the 'too' there comes of as a rhetorical slip--either you're using it in addition to you considering my previous question something to not answer, which is admission that you'd rather discuss these tangential topics than the nature of your own alignment, or you're using 'too' to imply that someone else is making shit up, which, in this case, would be you.

Now, please, I eagerly await your half-cocked rebuttal.

I don't understand how that portion of what Drealz is doing is AI. Like, you're focusing on the fact that he's barf-posting every thought and feeling, but what's the scum motive in that? Like, he's giving stances, so that doesn't make sense.

[Aeronaut]

varsoon can easily have my vote for the record

geebus

A better way to say this is to vote Varsoon

lots of scumpings of smith,

like he's trying to find which agenda to push

- plus buddying to beeboy on a few occasions at least

this is the sort of thing which begs for examples and explanation.

It's also strange that you'd see my "buddying" and presume that beeboy and I were wolf bros. Do you think that teammates interact with each other the way that beeboy and I have? Can you provide any examples of this sort of thing this early in a game?

[/quote]
Wolf bros?

I mean, you saying "would teammates interact like we're interacting" kind of makes that defense null IMO

He wasn't asked IF, he was asked WHY.
And if he ISOed Aero, why not ISO a TR to get some extra opinions on things?

What? How does ISOing a TR get him anywhere?

I don't really understand why selective isoing is a sign of anything other than laziness. If there's something more there I think you need to explain it.

I agree with Gamma that selective ISOing is totally scum driven, but that's not at all what Wis was doing.

oh geez, fucking "show me the evidence" - yeahhhh, cause smart scum just leave evidence lying around on purpose...noooooo, it's subtle and subversive and tangental associations and how it "feels" like you're trying to maneuver viewpoints rather than see them - that is what is scummy about you smith

VOTE: mhsmith

So by this logic, nobody should ever post any evidence ever?

wait no I did

Pie why are you voting me

I too want the answer to this.

VOTE: unvote

what made you unvote?

[Aeronaut]

RLv1.0

Spoiler: Key

Conftown - {CT}

Town - {T}

LeanTown - {LT}

NullTown - {NT}

Null - {N}

NullScum - {NS}

LeanScum - {LS}

Scum - {S}

ConfScum - {CS}

{T} pieguyn [T: 34, 79]

{NT} pisskop [T: 74]
{NT} Dwlee99 [T: 108]
{NT} beeboy [NI: 19][T: 278]
{NT} mhsmith0 [NT: 9][T: 327]

{N} Luna Fox
{N} Nahdia [NT: 217]
{N} Wisdom [NT: 263]

{NS} drealmerz7 [S: 344]
{NS} SirCakez [S: 98, 116][T: 240]

{LS} Gamma Emerald [S: 64, 72* 255]
{LS} Varsoon [S: 216*, 231/232*]

72: What's the point of this post?
216, 231, 232: Mostly just weird vibes from this, and I feel like these are weird fabricated cherrypicked reasonings.

[Aeronaut]

VOTE: Varsoon

I want to do this.

[Aeronaut]

72 was a conversation starter. I feel like it worked, even if it caused pisskop to vote me.

Why did you feel the need to insert a conversation starter, though? Like, at that point, there was plenty of conversation going on.

Because I'm fly as fuck and everyone wants a piece of this.

Hahahaha

I'm glad my obligatory day 1 wagon is getting out of the way early

This feels off, too. Like, "Haha, glad we got wagoning me out of the way, amirite guuuuys?"

To be fair, SC is almost always wagoned D1 in the games I've played/modded with him.

Varsoon, are you scum?

Not this time around. Why did you claim extra role utility/power when you claimed Miller?
I see no reason to do that.

Because, for later.

Do you see a scum motivation for that?

I don't understand how that portion of what Drealz is doing is AI. Like, you're focusing on the fact that he's barf-posting every thought and feeling, but what's the scum motive in that? Like, he's giving stances, so that doesn't make sense.

I suppose I'm coming from a personal bias. I've had a track record of shitting up threads just to kick up dust--Open 512 stands as a testament to that and why it should be immediately stopped.
He's giving stances on things that are arbitrary to the game--I could tell you all about my favorite pizza toppings and how I feel about getting other scummers to buy me Pizza (I'm for it!) but that's hardly related to the game at hand.
Yes, he's still playing the game, yes, he's putting down some content that actually has to do with it, but imagine if we were at 10 pages instead of 18. It'd be beautiful. All that content and none of the chaff.

Yeah but what I meant by stances, I mean he has stances on players. He

is

saying people are null or town or scum. I'm not even town reading him, but I'm weary of your reasons for scum reading him because they're kind of weightless.

[Aeronaut]

Gamma's right, did you miss aero's catchup posts?
Although he blatantly ignored me during his catchup.

I mean by that logic I "ignored" a bunch of other slots too, probably.

I recall asking a bunch of questions that, iirc, never really got answered. :/
Playing is for rubes, I guess.

What questions?

Gamma's right, did you miss aero's catchup posts?
Although he blatantly ignored me during his catchup.

How did he ignore you? I don't recall you posting anything directed at him.

He seems to agree with some of my opinions yet doesnt comment on them.

If I agreed with your opinions, why would I feel the need to comment on them?

Are you really complaining that I'm not auto-townreading you just because we have the same opinions on a small few things? Boo, bullshit. The fact that you're pointing it out just tells me that you're looking to have your opinions townread by design, which is a really good reason not to be town reading you in the first place.

"Look at me, I'm going with the flow, I'm town!" etc.

Basically i think he might be faking some of those reads.

How do you come to that conclusion? Like, the only way I could see that is if I came in, said oh boy that luna fox looks sheepable and then just baaaah'd my way to victory. The issues with that theory is A) I'd most certainly be sheeping Varsoon B) most of your opinions don't even match up with mine and C) undermined third reason.

[Aeronaut]

I'm currently at a gas station eating a pumpkin spice muffin. I'm only halfway to my destination, but I was reflecting on how much I like fall and how I'm so lucky to live in a world with octobers and novembers. Ever feel that way? It's just really nice sometimes to look at nature

I love new england

[Aeronaut]

Also back on the topic of the gas station, I ordered an iced coffee too and the girl was like "Do u want cream?" And of course I was like yea and she was like "Lit"

P-edit: yeah winter is rough but it's also so pretty so idc bring it on

[Aeronaut]

Oop, I did miss it. Blame the awkward formatting, Varsoon. Not the fact you're probably in need of proper sleep and nutrients.

Anyway.

I can only think of GOOD reasons for scum to make that claim, and POOR reasons for town to do it, but it is what it is.

Can you please explain all of the good reasons for scum!me to claim that, and all of the poor reasons for town!me to claim it, because as far as I'm concerned, every player who gets a miller role should claim it on D1, preferably earlier than I did.

And please actually answer this question; I'm not Wisdom.

Something between these things got to me

- Town reading me for no reason despite you never town reading me
- "Aero is blatantly ignoring me" when he wasn't really doing that, which you brought up more then once was pretty shitty
- Pandering for town reads using reasons that don't actually make sense (none of yours and Aeros opinions are the same and the ones that are the same don't even need to be faked as scum because it doesn't take being town to realize something doesn't make sense)
- your really bad gamma read

Yeah. This.

@Beeboy:
I dont think im townreading you for no reason. I explicitly stated that your posts on Page 2 gave me a gut townread.
Yeah I made that mistake, and i mentioned that earlier in 473
I was never pandering for townreads i was questioning why Aero never commented on anything of mine which imo if he agreed with stuff i said he should've had a townread,

I don't know why you'd think I'd auto-town read you just because I agreed with you.

You have to understand that from my perspective, you're complaining that I'm not town reading you for NAI reasons which weren't even what you said in the first place. It's very "look, I'm town!".

I also wouldn't let Aeronaut anywhere near LYLO with that claim, either.

I pretty much agree, tbh. Me being in LYLO would be really town useful for different reasons, but I think the sheer amount of WIFOM I'm going to cause by being there is going to be more harmful than helpful.

Maybe we won't even come across a LYLO situation.

can you elaborate
because i also read her posts and i cant tell shes town

pedit: @nahdia

Honestly, I'm not sure I can.

It's just one of those things where I read it and it feels like genuine sorting effort. I guess you can call it gut but it's more than gut it's just
she's town.

What do you think she's done sorting-wise?

Alternatively:
Can't I dislike the style and the slot be scum? :/

You can, but you're trying to justify the style as being scummy. Like; I don't really see drealz as town, but your reasons are reach as fuck

[Page 26, More reading after Westworld]

[Aeronaut]

@MOD: I'm voting dwlee, not drealm. is that correct?

I still would like to know why you think Dwlee is scum, because you haven't said why

aero seems ok since he started actually playing
UNVOTE:

So; question. Why is it that you were voting for what was essentially an RVS vote for so long during this game? Like, did you just have no other reads strong enough?

So then why the vote?

I didnt like the way you pitted me and pisskop against each other in one of your posts when you said one of us has to be scum.

sketchy reasoning

Not particularly; enforcing a false dichotomy is what scum generally so.

Aero why not claim miller in your opening post if you were going to do it?
I explained the pisskop vote later, keep reading.

pointless question[/quote]
Again... not really.

RLv1.0

Spoiler: Key

Conftown - {CT}

Town - {T}

LeanTown - {LT}

NullTown - {NT}

Null - {N}

NullScum - {NS}

LeanScum - {LS}

Scum - {S}

ConfScum - {CS}

{T} pieguyn [T: 34, 79]

{NT} pisskop [T: 74]
{NT} Dwlee99 [T: 108]
{NT} beeboy [NI: 19][T: 278]
{NT} mhsmith0 [NT: 9][T: 327]

{N} Luna Fox
{N} Nahdia [NT: 217]
{N} Wisdom [NT: 263]

{NS} drealmerz7 [S: 344]
{NS} SirCakez [S: 98, 116][T: 240]

{LS} Gamma Emerald [S: 64, 72* 255]
{LS} Varsoon [S: 216*, 231/232*]

Could you clarify your reads on:
Gamma 64 - seems null to me; why would a wolf be particularly motivated to shade a PR claim in that spot?
Dwlee 108 - that seems basically null, especially since there was no real follow-up on it (had been vote-parking on varsoon, doesn't really push anyone from the observation, just makes it and moves on to a different topic)
SC 240 - seems like a nullish post from SC; what's the clear town in it?
Gamma 255 - MAYBE NS, but honestly seems more bad than anything else[/quote]
Gamma 64 - It's throwing shade on a PR with shit reasoning, which feels kind of shitty to me because it opens the door for gamma to disregaurd/discredit what Pie says later on. More importantly though, I feel like throwing shade like that is almost always scum-driven regardless, because gamma is expecting us to agree with that idea later on, and not hold too much responsibility to gamma in the first place if that makes sense.

Dwlee 108 - he's saying that it's silly to analyze whether I'm town or not based on wagon speed, which is completely accurate. I feel like it would have been pretty easy for scum to let that conversation go for two pages getting nobody anywhere.

[Just a sidenote, I tend to townread people for making sensicle posts, because I feel like while town definitely isn't always using common sense, it seems like scum usually spends more time creating fabricated reasoning instead of common sense reasoning]

SC 240 - At the time I was also reading Drealz as low-hanging fruit and thought that scum would be more likely to just jump right the fuck onto that wagon.

Gamma 255 - Actually, I'm going to fully disagree with you here. this post is awfully sus because it's a clear misrep/exaggeration of what wisdom is doing, and then trying to vote him. I don't see town being that blatantly wrong. I'll give you that a lot of Gamma's posting this game could just be from badtown, but this one is pretty clear scum to me.

[Aeronaut]

i've recently come to the realization that my catchup-style of posting in games is probably annoying as fuck and hard to sift through. I'm only really at my computer during the night though to read shit, so I don't really know what else to do.

[Aeronaut]

Aero why not claim miller in your opening post if you were going to do it?
I explained the pisskop vote later, keep reading.

pointless question

Again... not really.

RLv1.0

Spoiler: Key

Conftown - {CT}

Town - {T}

LeanTown - {LT}

NullTown - {NT}

Null - {N}

NullScum - {NS}

LeanScum - {LS}

Scum - {S}

ConfScum - {CS}

{T} pieguyn [T: 34, 79]

{NT} pisskop [T: 74]
{NT} Dwlee99 [T: 108]
{NT} beeboy [NI: 19][T: 278]
{NT} mhsmith0 [NT: 9][T: 327]

{N} Luna Fox
{N} Nahdia [NT: 217]
{N} Wisdom [NT: 263]

{NS} drealmerz7 [S: 344]
{NS} SirCakez [S: 98, 116][T: 240]

{LS} Gamma Emerald [S: 64, 72* 255]
{LS} Varsoon [S: 216*, 231/232*]

Could you clarify your reads on:
Gamma 64 - seems null to me; why would a wolf be particularly motivated to shade a PR claim in that spot?
Dwlee 108 - that seems basically null, especially since there was no real follow-up on it (had been vote-parking on varsoon, doesn't really push anyone from the observation, just makes it and moves on to a different topic)
SC 240 - seems like a nullish post from SC; what's the clear town in it?
Gamma 255 - MAYBE NS, but honestly seems more bad than anything else

Gamma 64 - It's throwing shade on a PR with shit reasoning, which feels kind of shitty to me because it opens the door for gamma to disregaurd/discredit what Pie says later on. More importantly though, I feel like throwing shade like that is almost always scum-driven regardless, because gamma is expecting us to agree with that idea later on, and not hold too much responsibility to gamma in the first place if that makes sense.

Dwlee 108 - he's saying that it's silly to analyze whether I'm town or not based on wagon speed, which is completely accurate. I feel like it would have been pretty easy for scum to let that conversation go for two pages getting nobody anywhere.

[Just a sidenote, I tend to townread people for making sensicle posts, because I feel like while town definitely isn't always using common sense, it seems like scum usually spends more time creating fabricated reasoning instead of common sense reasoning]

SC 240 - At the time I was also reading Drealz as low-hanging fruit and thought that scum would be more likely to just jump right the fuck onto that wagon.

Gamma 255 - Actually, I'm going to fully disagree with you here. this post is awfully sus because it's a clear misrep/exaggeration of what wisdom is doing, and then trying to vote him. I don't see town being that blatantly wrong. I'll give you that a lot of Gamma's posting this game could just be from badtown, but this one is pretty clear scum to me.

also, fixed that quote ^^

[Aeronaut]

So pushing me for "making a bunch of mistakes and not reading his posts" is not BoP and not Mirepresentation
Damn guess i need to go to the road to rome and relearn mafia wording then.

I am also scum reading you for your Gamma read and town reading me for no reason.

>When your wisdom read is based on something even more fakeable specially if it's Wis
>Townreading you for no reason >When i explained my reason
Yeah it probably was a bad reason since i can see now that my read was wrong.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/search.php?a ... &sr=topics

It almost hurts me how new Gamma is.
How can you possibly think Gamma is a new player?

Gamma is absolutely a new player. But that's NAI, so why do you care?

so here's a point I want to make about Aero's miller claim: I think he definitely true claimed his *role*, and GIF has told me in a private convo a while back when discussing mod practices that it was unlikely he would ever use a mafia miller in a game because he sees no point in it as a role. the thing is, this is a game that was apparently designed entirely to fuck with me.

if I'm being honest, I actually feel a bit more comfortable thinking a level above that and considering the miller claim as town because GIF would expect me to see it and think "o god, GIF put a mafia miller in the game to fuck with me", but that's pretty unreliable.

I mean in fairness, I wouldn't townread me just because of some convo you had with GIF.

what ai thing has varsoon done, cakez?

Varsoon is pushing the same slot for shitty reasons and has been all game.

1. Survivability from the lynch.
2. To draw the scum kill.

I really don't see the town utility for you to mention these two things, especially the second thing.

However, since scum players don't have to worry about drawing a kill,

I mean, that's not really true. We don't know the setup of this game. It's day 1. If I (or anyone) is scum, I shut the fuck up until I know who can kill what and when.

If you're scum, you'll be lynched before LYLO regardless.

And that's why you shouldn't still be harping on it, but somehow still are.

I'm not going to respond to any of the rest of your post for obvious reasons. It doesn't even really make sense for you to post all of that as town in the first place, because it's not like your planning on pushing it. I thought you said my claim made more sense for scum, and that's why I asked. I feel like it would have been really easy for you to realize that hmm maybe that's he meant and maybe I shouldn't go giving all possible reasons why someone would only claim half their role.

I'm going to conclude this conversation for good by saying while your reasons make sense, they are also confirmable later in the game.

[Aeronaut]

@SC yea and no. Nothing he's done has made me think he's town, but Varsoon's push on him is weird, tunnelly, and fallacious. That makes Varsoon a better lynch.

[Aeronaut]

Beeboy what is the Drealz scum case ?

[Aeronaut]

As a simple example, I look at Varsoon's 744 and it displays a pretty profound lack of thread awareness given that he's pushing an argument that makes zero sense given what was actually happening. It's derpy enough to maybe be town (since scum would probably know basic stuff like "what was actually happening around the events that I'm talking about) but idk if Varsoon is any good at faking that sort of thing, or is actually derpy as scum.

I really feel like Varsoon is a good player though. He's not going around making those mistakes by accident.

I just remembered i promised some links but i kinda need to go to work like right now so i'll do that when i get back.
Please remind me and dont let me forget again, thanks.

And beeboy is 0 for 1.

I would love for you to find a game where you fail to read someone's read list and proceed to push them about there reads.

Except that's not what i did here.
First, I never pushed Aero, i was wondering why he was ignoring me.
Second, I was talking about his opinions during the catchup not his reads list. look at 473, Do you see me talking about reads in there?

I'd like to think that somewhere in the next ten pages, this conversation has finally finished, but honestly, what is the scum motivation in me ignoring you? Unless we were buddies, and we're not, because I would have lynched three or four PR's at this point and won the game by now

[Aeronaut]

Wisdom is incredibly towny on page 32

in case anyone care

[Aeronaut]

im experienced and i tunnel all the time
Thats weak

sure i do.. Like 20% of the time

This is really a ridiculous point and the fact you keep pushing it just makes you look worse

I really don't understand how it is that SC looks bad for pushing this point but I somehow don't.

[Aeronaut]

You know, I bet drealmerz is going to flip scum
Because MS fate likes trolling me like that q.q
P-edit: LET ME POST

SC here sounds like he's preparing to be wrong.

You know, I bet drealmerz is going to flip scum
Because MS fate likes trolling me like that q.q
P-edit: LET ME POST

fuck this is such a towny post

no not at all

Luna if you don't stop I am replacing out of this game.

NO YOU ARENT YOU DRAGGED ME INTO THIS GAME AND YOU'RE GOING DOWN WITH ME

I love you Dwlee

Because everything he's done is NAI IMO and scum like varsoon and gamma are pushing him

Remind me why varsoon and gamma are wolves? Ive kinda gotten distracted of late for

reasons

.

Varsoon - his crappy tunnel on dreal
Gamma - read last two pages

Because everything he's done is NAI IMO and scum like varsoon and gamma are pushing him

neither varsoon or gamma have flipped scum so this is bullshit
Youre better than this

I know, I know, pre flip associative are shitty
But it just feels so obvious at this point to me that dreal is being pushed by scum

I'm curious, who would you say is scum if you were wrong and Dreal flipped red?

Also I think dreal is a super lynchbaity player and that scum are taking advantage of that

I mainly agree with this, though. Dreal is a very Aristophanian player in that people look at his posting style and scumread him for it.

[Aeronaut]

Aeronaut my token attractive person i know:

Hey you have to buy me dinner first, i'm not that kind of girl!

bad vibes from the nahdia post

Why? RL was NAI at most.

bad vibes from the nahdia post

also explaining the bad vibes would be helpful.

that's what you'd think but I tend to just both ppl when I try to explain shit

I read it, it sounded like faked cutesy buddying to everyone pretty much

Nahdia called me attractive, therefore she is town. What don't you get about that?

255: IIRC this was my case on Wisdom. I figured the selective ISO was a lie to cover for himself.

but he was joking
or just being dumb.

Either way he wasn't doing what you said he did

Aero why not claim miller in your opening post if you were going to do it?

seems pretty pointless to me. It's generically optimal miller play to do it, but that doesn't mean everyone does it, and it doesn't mean that the guy who made two shit posts and nothing else was sufficiently engaged in the game to expect optimal play.

Also, if you were scum you'd have a reasonable answer (no way does THAT question catch anyone other than a total newb flat-footed), which means that it's hard to see it as a question that's going to lean to any kind of readable moment. It's not quite "are you scum" level, but it's not much better than that either.

I guess that's fair. I think I probably would have asked it in his position though, that's why I'm not really scumreading him for that post.

Dwlee 108 - he's saying that it's silly to analyze whether I'm town or not based on wagon speed, which is completely accurate. I feel like it would have been pretty easy for scum to let that conversation go for two pages getting nobody anywhere.

[Just a sidenote, I tend to townread people for making sensicle posts, because I feel like while town definitely isn't always using common sense, it seems like scum usually spends more time creating fabricated reasoning instead of common sense reasoning]

meh. competent wolves are decent at making sensible posts. what pings me as plausible scum play here is that there's no follow-up. He makes the point that wagon speed analysis is bad and then stops caring about it. Which is weird because if he's arguing against a defense of you based on wagon speed, then it'd make sense to actually evaluate your wagon in some kind of meaningful manner. Instead he just goes back to "vote varsoon", which if he's a wolf is a nice way to look like he's doing something without actually having to do anything of substance.
Now, if he's town then he was just being a bit lazy with the point he was making, which is also possible, which is why it's null in my mind. "He was reasonable in this one minor point" is IMO a poor reason for a substantive read on him.

Well I just dont know what there is to follow up on, though. Like; He said guyz why are we arguing over this stupid thing, and then for the most part people did

I really don't see the town utility for you to mention these two things, especially the second thing.

This part I agree with. What do you think of him pushing the notion that you somehow did it for survivability, despite your wagon having long since collapsed when you made the post?

I think it's silly for him to push that, especially seeing that i feel like if I were gonna gambit even if I was close to L-1, I definitely wouldn't be gambitting miller.

Beeboy what is the Drealz scum case ?

I think he is trying to make me and Luna 1v1 more and he has yet to explain his reads from page 22.

Yeah, but besides that one post where he's fanning the flames, anything else? Granted, that post sucks but is there more

yeah that was all me

I gave my read on the whole thing AFTER IT WAS OVER (so I hoped)

you are one of the scummiest scum evaer

You really aren't helping your case.

[Aeronaut]

AERO'S CAUGHT UP, BITCHES

[Aeronaut]

also; Pie must really hate vote counts because they aren't in this game

[Aeronaut]

also my RL is not nearly as funny as Nahdia's but f u here it is

RLv1.1

Spoiler: Key

Conftown - {CT}

Town - {T}

LeanTown - {LT}

NullTown - {NT}

Null - {N}

NullScum - {NS}

LeanScum - {LS}

Scum - {S}

ConfScum - {CS}

{T} pieguyn [T: 34, 79]

{LT} beeboy [NI: 19][T: 278, 538]
{LT} mhsmith0 [NT: 9][T: 327, 690*]

{NT} pisskop [T: 74]
{NT} Dwlee99 [T: 108]
{NT} Wisdom [T: P32*][NT: 263][NI: 552*]

{N} Nahdia [NT: 217]

{NS} Luna Fox [S: 466*]
{NS} drealmerz7 [S: 344]

{LS} SirCakez [S: 98, 116, 875*][T: 240]
{LS} Gamma Emerald [S: 64, 72* 255]
{LS} Varsoon [S: 216*, 231/232*, 490*]

72: What's the point of this post?
216, 231, 232: Mostly just weird vibes from this, and I feel like these are weird fabricated cherrypicked reasonings.
466: Complaining that agreeing with reads isn't getting her townread... wow.
490: Ignores Wisdom's question entirely

552: Wisdom/Varsoon likely not buddies

690: Looks like genuinely trying to understand things
P32: Wisdom defusing that fight is not scum motivated
875: SC to me kind of is trying to take the least responsibility possible for fighting a drealz scum flip.

[Aeronaut]

Aero, you have dreal, Cakez and Varsoon all as scum

Do you actually think that makes sense?

They're not dependent of each other

[Aeronaut]

Didn't you just say like five minutes ago not to draw pre-flip associatives?

@wis

[Aeronaut]

actually probably changed luna to null on that list

[Aeronaut]

Aero, you have dreal, Cakez and Varsoon all as scum

Do you actually think that makes sense?

They're not dependent of each other

Yeah but doesnt that affect your reads?

No. Why would it?

OK it seems Aero never adjusts her reads on things she's already made up her mind on.
I'll just never do anything she'll possibly see as scummy from now on then.

I'm a guy.

and I do change things depending on what happens, but I've seen no reason to change the reads that haven't changed... sooo...

Like, when i have three scumreads and they dont make sense together, i think i went wrong somewhere in the rest of my reads

Why? I'm not sitting here trying to guess the scumteam on day 1. I see three people that are independently scummy. Just because they don't make sense as scum together doesn't mean shit. There could be a 3p, for one. If not though, a varsoon scum flip would make me feel a lot better about drealz tomorrow, and vice versa. It doesn't matter that they don't make sense together this early on.

also did i mention gamma is town?
yeah

Eh I don't see how

[Aeronaut]

So why aren't we lynching Varsoon

How is Drealz worse than Varsoon

[Aeronaut]

So why aren't we lynching Varsoon

How is Drealz worse than Varsoon

I dont get this either
Didnt you say youre scumreading both?
This question makes it feel like youre asking why we arent lynching your scumread and lynching a null read instead

well, if you look back to my reads/my posts, I'm saying that I think Varsoon is worse than drealz.

[Aeronaut]

Because Drealz has been eh but Varsoon is has been pretty clearly scum in my eyes.

pedit @wis

[Aeronaut]

Aero's Really Pretty VC

drealmerz7 (5):

Varsoon, pisskop, beeboy, Gamma Emerald, Nahdia

Varsoon (3):

Aeronaut, drealmerz7, SirCakez

SirCakez (3):

Wisdom

beeboy (1):

Luna Fox

Dwlee99 (1):

pieguyn

Not Voting:

mhsmith0, Dwlee99

With

13

alive,

7

to lynch.

The deadline is in (expired on 2016-12-09 11:09:14).

[Aeronaut]

granted the people on vasoon's wagon aren't the best :/

[Aeronaut]

Varsoon why would he ever answer yes to that

[Aeronaut]

I was voting you before that.

[Aeronaut]

(And by before that, I mean I was voting you before you commented on my claim.)

[Aeronaut]

Varsoon why would he ever answer yes to that

you mean like "drealmer, are you scum?"

more examples of Varsoon asking aimless questions yay

[Aeronaut]

Varsoon i <3 you but you definitely rolled scum this game

[Aeronaut]

And I say that bc I hate alienating people when I'm just trying to lynch them

p-edit cool

[Aeronaut]

but I feel like you could have asked so many other questions to get him to talk about the game, such as (but not limited to): What are your town reads? What are your scum reads? How do you feel about so-and-so?

Instead of blarg are u scum look at me I'm edgy

[Aeronaut]

What other points do you have besides that he's posting useless shit?

[Aeronaut]

but I feel like you could have asked so many other questions to get him to talk about the game, such as (but not limited to): What are your town reads? What are your scum reads? How do you feel about so-and-so?

Instead of blarg are u scum look at me I'm edgy

I've already explained this.
Please actually read my posts.

Where? I'm sorry if I've missed it, please link it.

[Aeronaut]

Town, I'd imagine, wouldn't be so dodgy when initially prompted about their alignment--at that point, drealz was heading the conversation. I sought to drive the rhetorical power away from that.

Ok...

So you're saying town wouldn't be dodgy about their alignment... I don't really see scum doing it either. I see either alignment saying "I am town" because that's what you do. It's like how there should be one and only one answer to the question "do you denounce the KKK?".

Furthermore, I don't see town being so late in their vote on me. When the initial votes swapped over to me as it was clear the Aeronaut wagon was losing traction, those made sense. Drealz' vote came after the fact, in a place that feels scum to me.

Ok, so he was opportunistic. You could say the same about Gamma but you haven't mentioned him. Why is that?

Finally, Drealz posts against me, while they may be mostly NAI, don't ever seek to vindicate the points I make against Drealz. It's this all-out attack, and, most of it, a redirect of very early points I made against Drealz. This tells me that, for some reason, those early criticisms are what stood out and what drealz takes offense to. Which, likely, means that they're on-point.

I don't really see how this matters if the other points don't.

[Aeronaut]

Varsoon I'm really not trying to frustrate you. And you're acting like I'm the only one who doesn't understand your reasoning and it's like a lot of people

[Aeronaut]

Beeboy why are you for lynching Drealz but against lynching version

[Aeronaut]

Beeboy why are you for lynching Drealz but against lynching version

[Aeronaut]

better question is why is Drealz worse to you outside of "he feels worse"

[Aeronaut]

i'm currently drunk kind of drunk but drealz why

[Aeronaut]

and pie u said you were townreadding me and now you have "no form" of townread on me and I don't understand

why don't you love me

[Aeronaut]

are you claiming doc

[Aeronaut]

actually I don't care, lynch varsoon with a might stronger than a thousand horses

[Aeronaut]

i dont know what mash is

MASH is a show

[Aeronaut]

what if this whole game is just all backups and me

[Aeronaut]

piss is town

[Aeronaut]

Wisdom why aren't you voting Wisdom

[Aeronaut]

Wisdom why aren't you voting Varsoon

FTFM

[Aeronaut]

bc wis you're convo w him like a few pages ago was really good and he was being shallow af

but ur still like "where's the varson case" as if it's not right the fuck in front of you

[Aeronaut]

Pie is pretty obviously town, Cakez is pretty obviously a shit wagon, Wisdom is pretty obviously avoiding my questions


p-edit boo ur making me go back and look

[Aeronaut]

i guess he's not avoiding my questions so strike that last one bc he answered

[Aeronaut]

Like, if youre acknowledging the possibility he could be town, you would be trying to sort others

You havent really been doing that

So how is he the better "informed decision"?

Generating content that allows for transparency in their reads and play, actively engaging with other players, and being critical of anti-town play--these all contribute to early townreads, for me. Obviously, scum can do all those things, which is why I don't catch scum with 100% clarity every game.

ok thats incredibly shallow and not answering my question

[Aeronaut]

Pie is pretty obviously town, Cakez is pretty obviously a shit wagon

fucking bullshit

both you and pie keep calling cakez town out of nowhere when its completely unwarranted

where's your cakes case

[Aeronaut]

@pieguyn: What's giving you a more definitive townread on mhsmith and gammaemerald over Aero and Pisskop, then?

@Aeronaut: Oh. Be more specific with your questioning, then? I don't exactly know what to say.

wat

lol cases

Ok so ur useless then

[Aeronaut]

'm gonna stop drunk posting bc it's probably very infuriating and not very fun for anyone

but wisdom if you're not going to prov a case then you can't expect anyone to care about ur wagon

[Aeronaut]

Because everything he's done is NAI IMO and scum like varsoon and gamma are pushing him

neither varsoon or gamma have flipped scum so this is bullshit
Youre better than this

wow calling sc out for using associaitves and then using associatives

how much more can i point out how garbage this wagon is

[Aeronaut]

Ok so ur useless then

nope ive caught your buddy and im getting him lynched no matter how much you resist it

I'm back. Are we claiming things?

[Aeronaut]

nobody answered me.

[Aeronaut]

prod received.

Will read what I missed tonight

[Aeronaut]

Wow who woulda thought

[Aeronaut]

So pie is conftown at this point right

can we stop calling her scum yet?

[Aeronaut]

I shot Varsoon you dumbfucks

[Aeronaut]

I mean, unless Varsoon was nervous he was gonna be tracked I don't see any reason why he would visit anyone who wasn't his partner.

I forgot who is in what hood. Cakez have you softed your role anywhere that scum might have seen?

Don't you think Varsoon was obviously going to be tracked after that flip?

Would have been an easy push for me today.

[Aeronaut]

Ok, but it's highly feasible that there's some sort of tracking/watching etc. role in most games, especially role madness. There is absolutely zero chance that Varsoon heals his buddy with a 50% shot after that flip.

[Aeronaut]

Hmm, curious.

I wonder if we caught all scum. Varsoon/Aero/beeboy ???

Unrelated: Just wanted to say thanks for not vigging me, whoever <3

You're welcome

[Aeronaut]

Also, please tell me why I would hardbus Varsoon on D1 if i were his buddy.

[Aeronaut]

Aero is not the lynch because he's not done vigging

[Aeronaut]

Ok, but it's highly feasible that there's some sort of tracking/watching etc. role in most games, especially role madness. There is absolutely zero chance that Varsoon heals his buddy with a 50% shot after that flip.

So you're claiming town vig, no BP correct? Just a messing with people sort of healer visit then?

VOTE: Wisdom

[Aeronaut]

Oh sorry. @that quote, I'm not going to comment.

[Aeronaut]

I assume that I wasn't who Varsoon/buddies tried to kill, because A) that doesn't make sense, I'm a miller. B) he healed me

[Aeronaut]

Wait
Miller + Vig
You're fucking kidding me

yeah welcome to a role madness game.

[Aeronaut]

ugh everyone hang on and let me think.

I'm considering massclaiming here - I think it's probably correct because most people have claimed anyway, and without it I don't see us figuring out what the clusterfuck that was last night was, but I'm not sure. and ya Luna definitely blocked beeboy, but that isn't unambiguous quite yet because something else might have been what stopped the kill.

I agree w/ this.

[Aeronaut]

Wait
Miller + Vig
You're fucking kidding me

yeah welcome to a role madness game.

You claim both miller and vig
Confirmed SK?

Be better.

I honestly have very little faith you aren't just gambitting to get beeboy lynched because of your massive fight yesterday :/

I wouldnt lie about my night actions to get someone lynched. That's something i consider very bad play, like fake guilties.

<.<

Aero is not the lynch because he's not done vigging

I can try to confirm this tomorrow night?

I mean, you can. But wouldn't it just come off as a kill anyway? Scum me could kill just as much as town me can.

Wait
Miller + Vig
You're fucking kidding me

Bulletproof Miller Vig is a gimmick role. I can see GiF using it here.

ugh everyone hang on and let me think.

I'm considering massclaiming here - I think it's probably correct because most people have claimed anyway, and without it I don't see us figuring out what the clusterfuck that was last night was, but I'm not sure. and ya Luna definitely blocked beeboy, but that isn't unambiguous quite yet because something else might have been what stopped the kill.

I'm against mass claiming but I'll go with what you decide.

Why is that?

[Aeronaut]

Why am I against mass claiming?

Uh, explaining why I'm against it kind of defeats the purpose....

Fair point

It would confirm you as not-group scum, assuming there is another kill @Aero

I'm pretty much already confirmed not-groupscum since I shot groupscum.

Just to be clear, if I was lying about killing Varsoon, then whoever did could easily come out and say "hey, I killed Varsoon" and get me lynched as scum. Nobody has/will try to CC me because that would out them as scum.

[Aeronaut]

guys vote varsoon

Because _____?
Like, it seems even more random than usual to just be voting a 0 poster.

my role pm makes me believe varsoon is probably scum

What did you mean in this post?

[Aeronaut]

Mhsmith is actually scum, too.

[Aeronaut]

Smith spent all of D1 soft defending Varsoon / saying he'd "read into him".

And then berated Dwlee for "parking his vote" on Varsoon as if he was town, but then kept saying he was null or didn't know how to read Varsoon like the whole game.

[Aeronaut]

Near the end he said Varsoon and Drealz are both scum without any reasoning for why Varsoon was scum. He had been calling his play "dumb townie moves" all game but then suddenly at the end of the day, Varsoon is in his POE scum pile. No explanation.

[Aeronaut]

Why am I against mass claiming?

Uh, explaining why I'm against it kind of defeats the purpose....

Fair point

It would confirm you as not-group scum, assuming there is another kill @Aero

I'm pretty much already confirmed not-groupscum since I shot groupscum.

Just to be clear, if I was lying about killing Varsoon, then whoever did could easily come out and say "hey, I killed Varsoon" and get me lynched as scum. Nobody has/will try to CC me because that would out them as scum.

Except you could just be scum trying to draw out the real vig

Ok but you understand that it's definitely not worth it for scum!me to get myself lynched just to draw out the vig, right?

[Aeronaut]

The posts I'm referencing:

Dwlee 108 - that seems basically null, especially since there was no real follow-up on it (had been vote-parking on varsoon, doesn't really push anyone from the observation, just makes it and moves on to a different topic)

"Dwlee is vote parking on Varsoon"

pieguyn - town lean
Varsoon - ???
Luna Fox - null
Gamma Emerald - town lean
Nahdia - ???
Wisdom - town lean
drealmerz7 - ???
SirCakez - ???
Aeronaut - town lean
beeboy - town
Dwlee99 - ???
pisskop - ???

I feel like I should have a decent scum read by now but I don't particularly.

Varsoon is null

As a simple example, I look at Varsoon's 744 and it displays a pretty profound lack of thread awareness given that he's pushing an argument that makes zero sense given what was actually happening. It's derpy enough to maybe be town (since scum would probably know basic stuff like "what was actually happening around the events that I'm talking about) but idk if Varsoon is any good at faking that sort of thing, or is actually derpy as scum.

It's more that I've spent more time thinking on Luna's slot than the ???'s, so I'm actually null on her, compared to some of the other slots where I don't really have a developed opinion. Some, like Varsoon, Nahdia, and dwlee, I'm not really sure that there's enough there that I could have a meaningful opinion yet (I'm mulling over whether it's fair to at least slight town read varsoon for the derp in 744, haven't decided yet). I don't really feel good about my ability to read Cakez and probably should spend more time there but haven't. I've also been demotivated from really digging through dreal's shit-posting and deciding what I should be thinking about him.

Varsoon is dumb town

Probably should re-read varsoon and actually get an opinion there.

No opinion.

meh. competent wolves are decent at making sensible posts. what pings me as plausible scum play here is that there's no follow-up. He makes the point that wagon speed analysis is bad and then stops caring about it. Which is weird because if he's arguing against a defense of you based on wagon speed, then it'd make sense to actually evaluate your wagon in some kind of meaningful manner. Instead he just goes back to "vote varsoon", which if he's a wolf is a nice way to look like he's doing something without actually having to do anything of substance.

Dwlee is vote parking on Varsoon

Fair point. She did do it to push varsoon. Def. want drealz before v.

Not conf town but I'd rather lynch drealz than v.

Drealz before V

Frankly, I just want someone in my POE to die so we can move the hell on. Drealz, cakey, varsoon, dwlee. Let's just pick one and move on. It's probably just 10v3, it's not like this is LYLO.

Anddd Varsoon is in his scum pile.

[Aeronaut]

Varsoon/Wisdom/Mhsmith

[Aeronaut]

I'm some kind of BP, yeah.

[Aeronaut]

skimming Aero's ISO, I think a kill on him actually *would* make some amount of sense.

I don't see how killing me makes any sense. He protected me, supposedly.

1. vig if it isn't Aero should claim. it's true that they can just shoot him overnight, but a vig CC means Aero is just scum and we have 2 scum dead, so not much of a reason to bother remaining hidden. I feel mostly sure no one will claim this, because the people who are unclaimed are either beeboy (who was RB'ed) or people who I don't see shooting Varsoon, but should be done for completeness.

I agree.

[Aeronaut]

I don't see how killing me makes any sense. He protected me, supposedly.

i don't think Varsoon's action on you was a protect, i think it was a kill and he didn't protect anyone due to being the kill executor. it doesn't make any sense that he'd protect you if you're town. i don't think being a miller is a particularly good reason for not killing you, either

Yeah, that's true.

why do you disagree with the rest of what i wrote in that paragraph?

I don't.

[Aeronaut]

Aero's Really EARTHY-COLORED VC Volume II

Wisdom (4):

pieguyn, pisskop, Aeronaut, beeboy

Aeronaut (1):

SirCakez

Beeboy (1): Luna Fox

Not Voting:

mhsmith0, Dwlee99, Gamma Emerald, Nahdia, Wisdom

With

11

alive,

6

to lynch.

The deadline is in (expired on 2020-11-09 11:09:14).

[Aeronaut]

At the very least, Wis should claim.

[Aeronaut]

Pie what's you're opinion on mhsmith

[Aeronaut]

Yeah, Pie and Nahdia said that.

Got anything new?

[Aeronaut]

Wisdom is still a better lynch than Mhsmith in my opinion, but I wanted to get all that info out there at least bc I was town reading him before I really looked

[Aeronaut]

Yeah, Pie and Nahdia said that.

Got anything new?

I feel it's very likely Wis is scum, as he felt like he was masonsofting with Varsoon

Where did you see that?

[Aeronaut]

VOTE: wisdom

shame, and i was so obvtown d1

nice

[Aeronaut]

Wrong Aero was wrong

[Aeronaut]

I'll claim that kill first and foremost; I looked at smith's interactions with Wisdom/Varsoon and they seemed minimal to fence-sitty, so I figured that was a good vig. I was wrong. Sorry smith

[Aeronaut]

Yeah i don't get that.

p-edit re: scumkill

[Aeronaut]

umm we assuming an skviggie?

nhs was pretty town so sk?

Nah.

You can also prove I'm not an SK right? it will come up as group scum.

[Aeronaut]

Guess luna musta roleblocked the kill again??

Wait if luna blocked the NK wouldn't she know who tried to make it then?

[Aeronaut]

oh.

Jeeze why didn't I listen to that?

[Aeronaut]

I think dwlee could feasibly be scum, he was so flip floppy on both Varsoon and Wisdom.

[Aeronaut]

I want to hear from luna first though.

[Aeronaut]

you it is possible we have a non-killing 3p in this setup right?

I could be sitting around looking for interactions and maybe that's all there is

[Aeronaut]

Roles list
pieguyn: backup IC

Varsoon: Faith healer neighbor

Luna Fox: roleblocker
Gamma Emerald: VT
Nahdia: ??? (doesn't want to claim IIRC)

Wisdom: Faith healer neighbor

drealmerz7: nurse

SirCakez: tracker
Aeronaut: Vig/BP/MILLer or SK
beeboy: neighbor
Dwlee99: neighbor
pisskop: neighbor

mhsmith0: bomb vendor

Fixed my role to include all of it.

[Aeronaut]

ok well

VOTE: Beeboy

[Aeronaut]

Hmm i'm really paranoid of LunaLyncher setup though :/

[Aeronaut]

Hmm i'm really paranoid of LunaLyncher setup though :/

There's no other explanation for the failed kills, though :\

And I mean, a two person mafia team of faith healer neighbors doesn't seem likely.

Yeah, that's fair.

[Aeronaut]

So Beeboy was also pretty shifting re: wis and Varsoon, looking back

[Aeronaut]

Does town solve this game by page 100? Tune in next week to find out!

[Aeronaut]

???

if SK
then 2maf

Ok, pisskop. But I'm not a SK, nor would i have claimed miller if I was because that would be easily verifiable.

[Aeronaut]

Also please tell me in what world a balanced multiball game has a team of two mafia who are faith healers


p-edit that's a pretty good point, though.

[Aeronaut]

if 3maf and sk i expect powerful town.

plusx ocams razor favors me

Have you balanced a game before

[Aeronaut]

3 maf is like the minimum for a game with an SK, unless those two maf are super powerful and they aren't

[Aeronaut]

umm you won one as an sk, aero

Yeah I know.

That doesn't make me an SK in every single game. I wish I was, but sometimes you get miller

[Aeronaut]

Also weren't there four mafia in Pariah's?

[Aeronaut]

And one was boonskies so

[Aeronaut]

I was thinking, what if whoever's the missing maf if existant and not bee didnt kill coz they figured i'd roleblock bee.
Shouldn't we go no lynch and then i roleblock bee again to be sure?

Well then whoever is left could just no kill and then we'd lynch Beeboy

Unless they have to kill which seems unlikely

[Aeronaut]

Considering the town power, three maf and a sk makes sense

Ok, so if we lynch Beeboy and he's scum and the game still keeps going, lynch me next. Done, now vote Beeboy

[Aeronaut]

dwlee next, I think.

vote: dwlee

I think probably we should either wait another night on beeboy or just let Aero shoot him.

Pie in what world is Beeboy being blocked and there being no kill not clear to you

[Aeronaut]

OK so then it makes sense that if Dwleee is town, I shoot Beeboy tonight.

But that's also assume we're right about it being one of those two; if not we're at a disadvantage tomorrow, yes?

[Aeronaut]

I mean, it's also possible scum's kill went through and they also hit mhsmith.

Seems smarter to kill pie imo

[Aeronaut]

But I guess me saying that is proof that it could be either :/

[Aeronaut]

So if Im getting this right Aero is claiming vig and will shoot me to prove it?

No

Aero why do I prove you not an sk?

You don't

[Aeronaut]

Well I guess this game is probably a troll game and I didn't think of this, but I figured since I'm a miller it made sense there was a cop to confirm it but that's probably untrue

[Aeronaut]

Stolen from Aero's Really EARTHY-COLORED VC Volume II

Wisdom (6):

pisskop, Aeronaut, beeboy, Luna Fox, Gamma Emerald, Wisdom

Aeronaut (1):

SirCakez

Not Voting:

mhsmith0, Dwlee99, Nahdia, pieguyn

With

11

alive,

6

to lynch.

The deadline is in whatever.

[Aeronaut]

Something to keep in mind is that Wisdom may have self-hammered to avoid having his other buddy have to waste time pondering the bus.

[Aeronaut]

Idk that claim from bee is really fucking sketchy though

[Aeronaut]

No he fact that he was going to go for a mason fake claim

[Aeronaut]

Weren't there three of you?

[Aeronaut]

@beeboy show me where else you have done that in other games

[Aeronaut]

VOTE: Dwlee

[Aeronaut]

I mean I don't understand why you do that but the point is that I believe you do it

[Aeronaut]

p-edit: at the moment, if it isn't dwlee I would look in {you, beeboy, maybe Nahdia if everyone else fails but I would have to be very sure before lynching them}. if you want anything more than that, I'm out the door in a few mins so ask and I'll get around to it later.

I just saw this.

Pie is literally arguing that the whole of the scum team is in hoods.

And?

[Aeronaut]

This is a troll game
Trying to setup spec is dumb

[Aeronaut]

Is there an actual ic?

Nobody has claimed it. And I am in favor of us massclaiming today.

Fucks sake.

It's

me

, dammit. As if I wasn't softing it hard enough.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

[Aeronaut]

Would it make sense to confirm yourself now Nahdia?

[Aeronaut]

Pisskop, your insistance that two scum members can't be in the same hood is silly. In my games, I do that for fun, and this is true of multiple mods.

[Aeronaut]

Nobody is saying that at all

[Aeronaut]

Oh that's smart

U people are smart

[Aeronaut]

I don't think piss is scum, I just think he's not really thinking about what he's saying

[Aeronaut]

I don't think piss is scum, I just think he's not really thinking about what he's saying

[Aeronaut]

Hmm

[Aeronaut]

I think it's time nahdia confirm herself

[Aeronaut]

You know I love ya man but your vig is looking like its from outta town. Work with me.


p:


yea. we shouldnt be directing aero.

I'm phoneposting right now but tonight I'll be able to sit down.

[Aeronaut]

Hi, reading the last few pages now

[Aeronaut]

Gamma didn't visit anyone
With two mafia dead that's basically a clear unless ninja

Yeah but this is useless information if it's 2v2v9

Do you think there is another red scum or an sk or purple scum or?

I think there's likely another mafia team.

You know I love ya man but your vig is looking like its from outta town. Work with me.

?

It's not bothering me that Aero was directed.
It's bothering me that there's still only 1 kill and looks like it was aero's again.
Whoever is the last maf if any is just chilling and letting aero do his job for him, which doesnt look very good for Aero either.

Yeah, from this point I don't plan to kill anyone for the rest of the game because it's going to become too detrimental.

[Aeronaut]

im still wondering about the missing NK N1.
if it hit Aero and Aero's part of the 2nd scumteam then that means it has BP + ??? vs 2x Faith Haler vs All the crap we have.
Which seems a bit unfair for the red team...

Ok, this might seem a bit silly, but what if none of the mafia team(s) got a kill? And instead got a heal? Reversing the roles of town e.g. giving us a kill in me, and giving them an effective full heal?

[Aeronaut]

I think it's time nahdia confirm herself

this is a horrible idea, btw; the way it is now, if scum kill Nahdia then I confirm myself, if they kill me then Nahdia confirms themselves. scum literally cannot kill either of us without cutting me off as a mislynch option for good.

Ok, I don't know how I'm supposed to trust what you say until I know you're town though. Honestly, they only person who really thinks you're lying is pisskop, but every day that you two refuse to confirm this I get more paranoid.

Also... why would they not kill one of you last night? That would have made a lot more sense then going this much farther with two confirmable town roles in the game.


However, I think we all need to make sure we all understand this; If tomorrow comes and I'm lynched and we're in a possible LYLO situation, Nahdia and Pieguyen

will not confirm themselves

, they should be autolynched.

[Aeronaut]

Im rather mad at aero for agreeing to follow pie's directions and throw more wifom in the form of 'did scum NoKill' into the game.

Same, I should have followed my own heart.

post 2736, pisskop"]who caught most the scum of the game?[/quote]
I mean, technically me.

Aero's miller claim loses some legitimacy due to no cop btw. Not super crazy for there to be a miller when there's no cop (esp in a trollish game) but worth noting.

Why would I know that there was no cop?

[Aeronaut]

So, here's what I think.

We've got seven players left. I understand why this might be baised, but why not just block me and we NL today? I feel like I don't trust you people to make Pie and Nahdia actually confirm themselves once you've lynched me. I mainly trust pisskop to do it, but I don't think that he will.

I'm not going to make any more kills regardless if you block me or not.

[Aeronaut]

I see no downside in that. If someone can tell me the downside, go for it.

[Aeronaut]

Ok, then how about you block someone else, and then I won't kill anyone. If there's a kill tonight, then autolynch me tomorrow. That at least would involve killing less townies than lynching me today, and letting them kill someone tonight.

[Aeronaut]

Actually, I still don't understand the issue with you two confirming yourselves.

Because lets say we NL today. One of you dies tonight. Luna blocks someone else. That gives us two confirmed townies tomorrow in a six person game.

[Aeronaut]

There are only two scenarios if we NL today, you two confirm, and Luna blocks someone;

1. The scum kill one of you. This leaves us in a 6P game, with Pie/Nahdia confirmed, and then whoever Luna blocks. Two players conftown.
2. The scum no kills again. In this case, we have 2 confirmed players, in Nahdia and Pie. We can lynch someone (probably whoever was blocked).

[Aeronaut]

We can't both confirm ourselves. Only I can. pieguyn can only confirm herself if I die without confirming myself.

But you confirming yourself basically confirms pie too.

[Aeronaut]

You'd think so, but I guarantee pisskop will find some way to bitch and moan about it.

Ok, but Pisskop is not this entire game nor is he me. There's zero chance I'm letting us lynch either of you if one is confirmed

[Aeronaut]

1. The scum kill one of you. This leaves us in a 6P game, with Pie/Nahdia confirmed, and then whoever Luna blocks. Two players conftown.

Except, if it's 9-2-2, blocking one person doesn't confirm anyone unless we lynch a werewolf today.

Ugh that's true.

honestly fuck this setup if it's 2:2:9

[Aeronaut]

Well, if you confirm, I can be 90% sure that the rest of the scum(team?) is within

{Luna Fox, Gamma Emerald, SirCakez}

[Aeronaut]

I'd say most likely Gamma and SC. I don't see anyone doing that insane tunnel bullshit as scum that luna did.

[Aeronaut]

Or at the very least, I see her partner(s) saying you need to fucking stop this in their chat, and we know that Varsoon and Wis had a hood

[Aeronaut]

I'll leave it up to pieguyn. If she wants me to confirm, I will.

She won't.

[Aeronaut]

... what the fuck am I even reading?

1. if we're in 9-2-2, then Aero is scum. there is no two-person scum team in this game that does not include him; Nahdia and I cannot be a scum team and arguments along the lines of "you two need to confirm yourselves" do not hold water. Nahdia is confirmed town by virtue of my role; if anything what needs to happen is that they don't use the IC so that if scum decides to kill them I can use it.

How do you possibly deduce that it's impossible for there to be a team without me?

2. we are not no lynching. I'll probably lay out why this is bad in a separate post at some point, after I've had some more time to think.

I look forward to it, but you're also not the only vote in the game.

I'm clarifying all of this because it is ridiculous how many people in this game have no idea how theory works, both from today and at twilight yesterday as well.

Theory is called theory and not fact for a reason Pie.

I want to just scream bullshit at Aero trying to say "durr if you don't confirm how can I trust you?". I should probably come back and look at it again when I'm less emotional.

I don't know what to tell you, sorry. You could very easily clear this all up pretty fast.

So, here's what I think.

We've got seven players left. I understand why this might be baised, but why not just block me and we NL today? I feel like I don't trust you people to make Pie and Nahdia actually confirm themselves once you've lynched me. I mainly trust pisskop to do it, but I don't think that he will.

I'm not going to make any more kills regardless if you block me or not.

so let me get this straight: you are worried that this was 9-2-2 and that me and Nahdia are scum, correct?

what the hell do you think has happened to all the kills if this is the case? if this is what's going on, then both teams missed their kills N1 and we missed our kills N2 and N3. and no, "scum teams don't get kills" is a silly reason.

Why? This game is clearly meant to fuck with us.

The same logic could be applied to your argument; why are you so sure it's 2:2:9 if there weren't any kills?

[Aeronaut]

How do you possibly deduce that it's impossible for there to be a team without me?

9-2-2 would mean you're a WW who's claiming your scum kills as a "vig". anything else doesn't work for the exact reason you said later in the post: there haven't been any kills.

personally if this is what was happening and I was in your position I woulda just went rogue last night and ate a lynch today, but continuing to slow play the vig claim also works.

even more evidence i'm pretty clearly town

[Aeronaut]

Yeah.

[Aeronaut]

Alright, then we should get one thing out of the way before anything else happens.

@Pie/Nadia

Do you understand that tomorrow, after I'm flipped green, no matter what, you

must

confirm yourselves? There should be no more reasons why you can't at that point because if it's another 2p team, we're then in LYLO. If you do not confirm, this should be considered a scum claim. Do you get this?

[Aeronaut]

I feel like even Pisskop isn't going to deny a mod confirmed result, pie

[Aeronaut]

if you throw out any sort of weird ideas like "scum teams don't have kills", what does the gamestate look like from your POV?

I don't know Pie, I see it as possible considering the weird bullshit in this setup that we've already seen.

[Aeronaut]

Wait so Pie, how is lynching me make any sense in your eyes when you're denying that it could be 2:2:9?


Because you've said I'm definitely not an SK. I'm also pretty much confirmed to not be Mafia w/ Varsoon.... so?

[Aeronaut]

If the setup is 9-2-2 where are the kills?

[Aeronaut]

If the setup is 9-2-2 where are the kills?

[Aeronaut]

Sorry, you seem to be calling my vig kills werewolf kills

[Aeronaut]

Oh i see though, I'm looking at it from my perspective when that's impossible for everyone else

[Aeronaut]

Sorry, you seem to be calling my vig kills werewolf kills

Yeah. Do you understand why you have to be scum if this is 9-2-2 now?

So the answer is that it's not 9-2-2

[Aeronaut]

Like, if it's 10-3, there's STILL at least 2 missing kills.

Which are probably scum no-killing to push this lynch

[Aeronaut]

So I'm going to assume that it's 10-3. I know there's no serial killer, and you all soon will too. That means we're still looking for Vars/Wis's partner.

[Aeronaut]

why not?

[Aeronaut]

I mean either way you're going to have to come to that conclusion.

[Aeronaut]

I mean, you saying it's silly means it's not.

I'm not an easy lynch target if I'm trying not to be. Scum know that if I got far enough being BP/Vig, that's going to fuck them up pretty hard. I'm pretty sure that makes lynching me their first priority, since that's the only way they could ever get rid of me

[Aeronaut]

Either way, i'm getting lynched today. Fine with it, over it.



But I want you to talk through this with me assuming that I'm town. Because I am, you'll see that soon enough and then you're not going to have me around to help and everyone else is lurking the fuck out of this game

[Aeronaut]

It's likely 10:3 .

Who do you think is scum between the last six of you?

[Aeronaut]

Assuming you're town too, Who is scum to you between Piss/SC/Gamma/Luna?

[Aeronaut]

@ both of you.

[Aeronaut]

Off the bat i'd say if it's 10:3 and you two are town, it's probably almost definitely not Pisskop or SC, just based on interactions with Wis and Varsoon.

[Aeronaut]

Assuming you're town too, Who is scum to you between Piss/SC/Gamma/Luna?

I don't really see any possibility besides it being Cakez.

I've had my fair share of paranoia that I should be pulling the same "you're not this dense" card on pisskop that I pulled on Wisdom, but ergh.

No, cakes v Varsoon was pretty prevalent

[Aeronaut]

imo

[Aeronaut]

I guess I need to look back but that's what i had written there.

[Aeronaut]

aero, if you are a town killsource why would you try to placate us by not killing scumny players?

because i've clearly been wrong the last two nights

[Aeronaut]

youve been chainedvthe lssy 2 nights.

by somebody who is suss

I have no idea what this says

[Aeronaut]

you not killing is survivalism.

if sk well only rope you later and if 2scum your p kills.

do you have a prefered lynch today. why is an nl the best option

I mean my preferred lynch today is a NL, but if not a NL than the lynch should be me. There's zero chance you people don't vote me in LYLO.


And it's going to be LYLO tomorrow.