Newbie 1761: Welcome to Mafia (Game Over)

[Equinox]

Vote Count 1.09

Cheetory6 (1) - algebra
karldilkington (1) - Cheetory6
XnadrojX (1) - Zaraki_Jaegerjaquez
Zaraki_Jaegerjaquez (1) - XnadrojX

Not Voting (5) - ArcAngel9, karldilkington, Clemency, MortFeld, Deimos27

With 9 votes in play, it will take 5 to lynch.

The deadline is Tuesday, December 13, 2016, at 9:00 PM EST (UTC-5), which is in (expired on 2016-12-13 21:00:00).

Moderator Comments

ArcAngel9 is on V/LA from December 2 to December 8.

[MortFeld]

VOTE: Deimos

My vote should be here.

Sure, but assuming I'm town, who would be your top picks for scum?

Probably Xnad. Maybe Clem.

Also, who do you think is my scumpartner if I'm scum?

Probably Xnad.

Why do you want me to start giving associations so badly? I think associations are counterproductive on Day 1. I actually think I need a good answer to this, I very visibly dodged your question, had a good reason to do so, and then you pressed me on it.

(If you meta me, you'll see I said ~X in a different game. If you're curious about this you can ask me)

[MortFeld]

Cheetory, why are you voting Karl? You voted him in RVS, then said

To some extent I was leaning karl for a bit

which is in the past tense so it's ambiguous whether you still scumlean him. Clearly you do - since you're voting him. Is this vote an oversight?

[MortFeld]

@Xnad, 219 is Zaraki's case in addition to 210, for whenever you get around to responding.

[MortFeld]

had a good reason to do so

I'll explain this after you explain why you think Mort giving associations is so important.

[Equinox]

ArcAngel9 has been prodded.

[Cheetory6]

Aight I have a little under an hour so partial catch-up time.

I remembered feeling good about Deimos's entrance out the gate. Felt like some of his early posts like #9 and #61 had some genuine-feeling energy. He was my early townlean out of the gate.

Wasn't explicit about it to see what kind of reactions I would get to it. I find it easiest to sort people based on direct interactions/earlygame is a weakpoint for me/lack of meta is going to be an issue for me in general this game. So, was hoping doing something a little unorthodox would get some reactions that would be easier to poke at. Karl was the only one who really bit, and I can kind of see two sides to the same coin on how he went about it.
His tone in general has felt kind of off, but he's also had 1-2 points that have felt kind of town-motivated? I find his reads and the way he comes to reads to feel somewhat genuine, but the angles he's been pushing have felt a little opportunistic/easy. Which could be more newness than scum. Will probably try to ISOdive him to get a better feel for that in the near future.
Especially feel wonky about him walking in and calling MortVbackwardsJordan TvT. Just kind of feels like he came to that a little bit too easily.

Mort came across as a little tryhardy which is one of those things that makes me uncomfortable. Originally I was feeling a little wary of how he was pushing backwardsJordan because it felt like he was maybe going after one of those points that looks good that semi-experienced scum likes to jump on. But, from skimming along, I know a lot of Mort's energy has been consistent to a level that I would be decently surprised if it was coming from scum. I've seen some pretty high energy newscum, but it's generally a bit of an anomaly so I'm a little comfortable with my townlean there right now. If the energy stays there and there isn't some kind of association between him and another scum then I'm probably going to keep him in the townpile.

Zaraki was looking kind of sketch out of the gate with some awkward tone, weird wording and some overdefensiveness. Still not really sure what to make of the unvote in #63. A lot of what's ruffling my feathers could be newness, but I'm kind of wary of letting go of some of those weird feels. Really really new players tend to give me a lot of trouble so I'm hoping I can get a better grasp on him once I'm caught up because it looked like he was dropping a lot more content that will probably be easier to omnomnom on.

I think backwardsJordan is looking a little worse on reflection. Him jumping onto Zaraki in #27 without voting looks kind of like setup and his opening post kind of has a few awkward notes to it. Getting a bit of a vibe of forced tone in general. Have also seen newerScum use RQS as a way to seem protown in the past. [is probably more of a null thing realistically, but still on my mind in general] backwardsJordan voting Mort in #51 feels pretty limp. It really doesn't feel like he's genuinely scumreading him there and is more just frustrated and I think that frustration feels less like "wow this is probably scum doing this" and more like "you're being unfair to me".

Stopping at page 4.
Head is getting fuzzy trying to follow some of backwardsJordanVMort q.q

Cheetory, why are you voting Karl?

I was leaning kind of town on one of Karl's posts at the time and didn't have anyone else I was feeling particularly confident about otherwise. Could have unvoted, but didn't really feel like it would serve any practical purpose.

Pretty sure someone else asked me something at some point, but I can't find it. I'll be on top of this game more by the end of the weekend at the very latest. IRL has been pretty brutal to me the last few days.

Current lamereads:
====
====
Mort
====
algebra
====
arc, deimos, karl, clemency
====
zaraki
====
xnadroj
====

Vote: xnadroj

[Equinox]

algebra has been prodded.

[ArcAngel9]

I didn't read the game yet. I have played with xnandraj before and he is a newbie and interpt incorrectly

[MortFeld]

I remembered feeling good about Deimos's entrance out the gate. Felt like some of his early posts like #9 and #61 had some genuine-feeling energy. He was my early townlean out of the gate.

Do you still feel this way about Deimos?

Especially feel wonky about him walking in and calling MortVbackwardsJordan TvT. Just kind of feels like he came to that a little bit too easily.

Algebra said the same thing as Karl in 131, but you townread Algebra. What is the difference?

Zaraki was looking kind of sketch out of the gate with some awkward tone, weird wording and some overdefensiveness. Still not really sure what to make of the unvote in #63.

I don't understand why people are still framing his unvote like this. I guess because people aren't reading the thread. The first question is: did you read his 171? Second: do you believe his explanation? Third: if not, why not?

Oh, I see. You reacted without reading the whole thread. That rubs me the wrong way but I understand doing it because of prods and whatnot?

Wasn't explicit about it to see what kind of reactions I would get to it. I find it easiest to sort people based on direct interactions/earlygame is a weakpoint for me/lack of meta is going to be an issue for me in general this game. So, was hoping doing something a little unorthodox would get some reactions that would be easier to poke at.

I hate reaction tests. I have literally never seen one work in my games.

You call breadcrumbing (signposting?) a townlean unorthodox; I agree but I'd say it's unorthodox because it's bad townplay. Now I know you didn't even breadcrumb a townlean. You actually lied and then said the lie was a reaction test that didn't even really work. I am extremely hesitant to excuse lying under the guise of a failed reaction test.

[MortFeld]

I have played with xnandraj before and he is a newbie and interpt incorrectly

Then he will be inept as town and inept as scum!

[MortFeld]

I have played with xnandraj before and he is a newbie and interpt incorrectly

Then he will be inept as town and inept as scum!

Ah, that word is interpret. Well, then he will interpret incorrectly as town and also as scum.

But I don't scumread him simply because I think he didn't understand things people said. Though I do think that is true.

[MortFeld]

More on reaction tests:

Every question I ask is a reaction test. How people respond to questions in the early game, before scum have developed a gameplan, is a big part of where my reads come from. There is absolutely no need in my mind to do something contrived as a reaction test, let alone lie.

Oh, and I said the reaction test was failed. I should have mentioned that I think Karl's tone was certainly weird but ultimately NAI.

I am also always wary of this pattern:

Person X does odd/anti-town thing.
Town is suspicious of Person X for that thing.
Person X says it was a reaction test.

Obviously you can't say it's a reaction test up front, and we can't know your motivations unless you offer them. But that's the main reason I don't like reaction tests - the use of them is NAI, but functionally they cover up an odd/anti-town action, and these can often be scumtells otherwise. I wish townies would stop doing stuff like this.

If anyone thinks Cheetory didn't lie:
-Cheetory said in 57 that he had exactly one townlean.
-Now he says in 231 that at that time, he did not have any townleans.
-Either way he was lying in 57. If you think he's also lying in 231, he is nearly certainly scum.

[MortFeld]

Oh, @Cheetory, were you saying that Deimos was the townlean?

If yes, disregard the parts about lying, but not the rest.

[Cheetory6]

I was indeed.

Phoneposting ATM.

The "reaction test" wasn't really meant to be anything special. Like its probably closer to 50/50 me trying to get reactions to interact with people and trying to have some fun in the earlygame. Or at least my variant of fun. L

Mafia is a stressful and occasionally very unfun game. Might as well try to enjoy it beyond just trying to win.

[MortFeld]

The "reaction test" wasn't really meant to be anything special. Like its probably closer to 50/50 me trying to get reactions to interact with people and trying to have some fun in the earlygame. Or at least my variant of fun. L

Mafia is a stressful and occasionally very unfun game. Might as well try to enjoy it beyond just trying to win.

Fair enough. I for one rarely have unfun, must be my newbie luster. Or maybe the fact that puzzles alone are fun for me.

[MortFeld]

Already found scum, thought this game would be harder.
VOTE: Cheetory

Ok, so it isn't just me then!

Was this based on anything other than him breadcrumbing his townlean?

Why aren't you voting anyone? So far I've caught implications in your posts of a current scumlean on Xnad, Deimos, and Cheetory but none accompanied by a vote.

[algebra]

Clemency, who do you think is mafia?
If you had to bet on one person being town, who would it be?

[MortFeld]

Deimos - Good job progressing the day.

I disagree. Explain more please?

With regard to your thought process at that time.

[algebra]

I thought he was trying to get town out of RVS in 23 and 61

[MortFeld]

I thought he was trying to get town out of RVS in 23 and 61

23 is a factual statement about RVS. 61 echoes the same statement contained in 23 and includes a vote for Zaraki, purely because Zaraki doesn't understand what RVS is.

How are 23 or 61 alignment indicative?

[MortFeld]

I suppose I should say - how do 23 or 61 help get us out of RVS? And if they do, how do they contribute to a townread of Deimos?

[algebra]

I wouldn't say it was directly helping to get town out of RVS, but it seemed to come from a person who wants to get town out of RVS.

[MortFeld]

Ok. What do you think about Deimos now?

[MortFeld]

I wouldn't say it was directly helping to get town out of RVS, but it seemed to come from a person who wants to get town out of RVS.

For the record, this is not legitimate. Zaraki said that RVS favors scum.

That

actually got us out of RVS. Deimos was trying to inform Zaraki that RVS is useful, a clear attempt to continue RVS.

Saying "X statements seem to come from a person with Y goal" when X statements are objective, incontrovertible facts is hogwash. Someone who wants us mired in RVS could just as easily say "The random voting isn't meant to lynch people. It's meant to pressure and start discussion. After we exit the stage, random voting becomes pointless." In fact, as I have alluded to, this statement actually implies that Deimos wants RVS to continue.