DEFCON Mafia 4.0 - СЛАВА РОССИИ МАТЕРИ
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Lady Lambdadelta She/FaerRise of the PhoenixShe/Faer
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There are certain things an SK doesn't do when they're planning to live for the long game.
They don't take a negative utility role or a role that the scum will have to kill eventually.
They don't take 2 nukes and leave themselves open to jsut about every feasable form of random death possible in the game.
That LITERALLY eliminates (Nahdia, Cephrir, LLD, Vi, UT, MoI).
SpyreX's role is the ONLY FEASIBLE alternative and it just feels too weak.Yes my Lord, but questions are dangerous, for they have answers.
13 heads and counting now, plurality is adaptive. If our experience might help you,click here.
If you wish tospeak to one of us, we are Niamh, Rhiannon, Rhea, Aisling, Saoirse, Selene, Aoife, Fírinne, Aurélie, Lyra, Airna, Fiadh and Laoise.
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Lady Lambdadelta She/FaerRise of the PhoenixShe/Faer
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There is EXACTLY one person who can be SK here. You want to tell me I''m good at this game and then turn around and backhanded compliment me with that shit?
Fuckig recognize that I don't play well with logic, I'm not a fucking rational god damned thinker.
And yet I get results.
Because I'm fucking right.Yes my Lord, but questions are dangerous, for they have answers.
13 heads and counting now, plurality is adaptive. If our experience might help you,click here.
If you wish tospeak to one of us, we are Niamh, Rhiannon, Rhea, Aisling, Saoirse, Selene, Aoife, Fírinne, Aurélie, Lyra, Airna, Fiadh and Laoise.
Soar on wings of retribution and set the world ablaze-
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Lady Lambdadelta She/FaerRise of the PhoenixShe/Faer
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I've decided MoI is town. Reading back, a lot of the things he did just feel and have motives from the right perspective.
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Vi/SpyreX
Spyrex/UT
I think I can stop here for now.
I need to do the math but if we need to lynch the Terrorist, we lynch GreyICE. If we need to lynch scum, we lynch SpyreX.Yes my Lord, but questions are dangerous, for they have answers.
13 heads and counting now, plurality is adaptive. If our experience might help you,click here.
If you wish tospeak to one of us, we are Niamh, Rhiannon, Rhea, Aisling, Saoirse, Selene, Aoife, Fírinne, Aurélie, Lyra, Airna, Fiadh and Laoise.
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Lady Lambdadelta She/FaerRise of the PhoenixShe/Faer
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If Cephrir flips scum... then I redo my thinking.
If a non-cephrir entity dies... I'll be entirely shocked.Yes my Lord, but questions are dangerous, for they have answers.
13 heads and counting now, plurality is adaptive. If our experience might help you,click here.
If you wish tospeak to one of us, we are Niamh, Rhiannon, Rhea, Aisling, Saoirse, Selene, Aoife, Fírinne, Aurélie, Lyra, Airna, Fiadh and Laoise.
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Lady Lambdadelta She/FaerRise of the PhoenixShe/Faer
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actually scratch that this is simple
if Cephrir flips scum we lynch GreyICE, remove the terrorist, and put the scum in a terrible position.Yes my Lord, but questions are dangerous, for they have answers.
13 heads and counting now, plurality is adaptive. If our experience might help you,click here.
If you wish tospeak to one of us, we are Niamh, Rhiannon, Rhea, Aisling, Saoirse, Selene, Aoife, Fírinne, Aurélie, Lyra, Airna, Fiadh and Laoise.
Soar on wings of retribution and set the world ablaze-
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Lady Lambdadelta She/FaerRise of the PhoenixShe/Faer
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5:2:1
1 Nuke 1 Lynch 2 Deaths (possible 1 death but unlkely) confirmed.
2 nukes conditional on living next day.
If Cephrir is town and SpyreX is scum, we move into night at 4:1:1.
Both scum and SK will want to shoot a townie and force a prisonner's dilema?
Unless nukes matter.
Scum has 1 nuke left in this scenario no matter what... but can't nuke the terrorist without losing the game themselves.
We town can win almost all 3:1 scenarios, because the worst that can happen is the nuke kills 1 townie and we're in lylo, which was the situation in a 3:1 defcon anyway. (both terrorist and scum will likely have a nuke)
So the question is, can town ever win a 2:1:1 scenario?
Only if one of the scum is nuked and the other lynched that day. It can't ever go to night again and that's a far cry.
And the facts of the matter are that given GreyICE is SK, he can never be killed at night by scum so it's entirely up to greyICE. He can just pick a person he knows is town and shoot them.
If both parties shoot the same person and it's 3:1:1... if no nukes are fired town can win, otherwise it's the same scenario as 2:1:1, where we need one team to nuke the other team.
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If we lynch GreyICE and kill the SK, we go into night at worst 4:2 and come back out 3:2.
Scum will have likely 1 nuke left and they can launch it, but not at MoI or Me. The town nuke would be unable to fire because SpyreX would sabotage it. so if it's...
MoI
Nahdia
Vi
SpyreX
UT
If scum nuke the other Silo and a scum is lynched it's 2:1, goes into night, kills Nahdia, game over, scum win.
And that's inevitable, there's no work around there.Yes my Lord, but questions are dangerous, for they have answers.
13 heads and counting now, plurality is adaptive. If our experience might help you,click here.
If you wish tospeak to one of us, we are Niamh, Rhiannon, Rhea, Aisling, Saoirse, Selene, Aoife, Fírinne, Aurélie, Lyra, Airna, Fiadh and Laoise.
Soar on wings of retribution and set the world ablaze-
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Lady Lambdadelta She/FaerRise of the PhoenixShe/Faer
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Mod, what happens if a town fail safe and a scum are the only ones left alive? Does the game instantly end in favour of the scum? Is MoI considered still a "threat" to the EU?
or does the scum have to actually issue a kill order on MoI... and then live for 48 hours?Yes my Lord, but questions are dangerous, for they have answers.
13 heads and counting now, plurality is adaptive. If our experience might help you,click here.
If you wish tospeak to one of us, we are Niamh, Rhiannon, Rhea, Aisling, Saoirse, Selene, Aoife, Fírinne, Aurélie, Lyra, Airna, Fiadh and Laoise.
Soar on wings of retribution and set the world ablaze-
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Lady Lambdadelta She/FaerRise of the PhoenixShe/Faer
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Because if scum are forced to kill MoI and it ends in a tie... they would be forced to kill MoI and not me tonight, and force MoI to make a more blind shot.
Which simultaneously gives us a chance to win, right?Yes my Lord, but questions are dangerous, for they have answers.
13 heads and counting now, plurality is adaptive. If our experience might help you,click here.
If you wish tospeak to one of us, we are Niamh, Rhiannon, Rhea, Aisling, Saoirse, Selene, Aoife, Fírinne, Aurélie, Lyra, Airna, Fiadh and Laoise.
Soar on wings of retribution and set the world ablaze-
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Lady Lambdadelta She/FaerRise of the PhoenixShe/Faer
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which might make lynching GreyICE the better scenario because I'll be honest relying on the scum to cross kill and not just stick us in a prisonner's dilemma is wishful fucking thinkingYes my Lord, but questions are dangerous, for they have answers.
13 heads and counting now, plurality is adaptive. If our experience might help you,click here.
If you wish tospeak to one of us, we are Niamh, Rhiannon, Rhea, Aisling, Saoirse, Selene, Aoife, Fírinne, Aurélie, Lyra, Airna, Fiadh and Laoise.
Soar on wings of retribution and set the world ablaze-
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GreyICE Fifty Shades
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Well its nice to see some signs of life from you. Oh wait it's to obsessively SK hunt while acknowledging that we couldn't possibly lynch the SK anyway.
Vote: LLD
I have a long response to type up to Vi at some point mentioning how Vi breadcrumbed a role post 1 in Fate's game using an incredibly complex reference to a previous game that was both undeniable, undetectable, and ironclad, and asked "would I do this as scum" then not only had no real answer to our universal "yes" but then also subsequently flipped scum. But this will do.ShowThat which is done out of love always takes place beyond good and evil
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Vi Professor Paragon
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?In post 5731, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:Mod, what happens if a town fail safe and a scum are the only ones left alive? Does the game instantly end in favour of the scum? Is MoI considered still a "threat" to the EU?
or does the scum have to actually issue a kill order on MoI... and then live for 48 hours?
In the words of the youth of yesteryear, "ha ha oh wow". I appreciate how it doesn't work in the event of a Terrorist attack. And, with a literal reading of the Win Condition...Fail Safe:Courtesy of Dr Strangelove or: How I learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb. {If a player targets you with a nuclear launch, you automatically launch a nuclear weapon at that player.If you are killed by the Stealth Bomber, you may make a single post in the thread containing only the words Nuke: [PLAYERNAME] up to 72 hours after your death.Your nukes cannot be recalled or prevented by any means.}
...with an impliedYou are aligned with Russia. You win if, for 48 hours, all threats to the EU have been neutralized and at least one European remains alive.or nothing can prevent the same, which means it's not one of those wussy 50% rules. One Russian + Fail Safe that doesn't get lynched or Terrorized (or nuked I guess) = no Russian victory.
This is... two roles that the Russians cannot have alive at endgame, now (plus Air Base)? Has the informed minority ever won DEFCON?
I think you've disqualified yourself from using the word "force". That said, if we assume 4-2-1 coming out of this nuke,LLD 5732 wrote:Because if scum are forced to kill MoI and it ends in a tie... they would be forced to kill MoI and not me tonight, and force MoI to make a more blind shot.
Which simultaneously gives us a chance to win, right?
*if we lynch Russkie (4-1-1 get some info), and assuming the Terrorist hits Town, if the Russian hits the Terrorist, then they go to 3-1-0 with at least one of {Fail Safe, Air Base} in play. The only way this ends in a Russian victory is if Moai is the last Russian.
*if we lynch Russkie (4-1-1) and assuming the Terrorist hits Town, if the Russian hits the Fail Safe, then it becomes 2-1-1 with at least two nukes in play, one of which is directed by the Terrorist. At that point the game is basically decided by the Fail Safe (including and especially if Moai is the Terrorist ) or whichever nukes are left in play.
*if we lynch Town (3-2-1) then... the Terrorist hits Russian (3-1-1), if the Russians hit the Terrorist, it goes to (3-1-0) and it becomes LyLo. The dynamics of either of them being the Fail Safe are weird and I don't really care enough to do much with this because it doesn't matter let's let someone else roll the dice.
@mod: What happens in an endgame with one Russian and Air Base?It seems like there's no winnerbecause there's not enough nuclear death.
Why are you going off of one game that happened in 2011 for all your Vi meta needs?GreyICE 5734 wrote:I have a long response to type up to Vi at some point mentioning how Vi breadcrumbed a role post 1 in Fate's game using an incredibly complex reference to a previous game that was both undeniable, undetectable, and ironclad, and asked "would I do this as scum" then not only had no real answer to our universal "yes" but then also subsequently flipped scum. But this will do.
Also I'm looking back at the game now because I have no idea what you're talking about and I tried claiming/crumbing Miller as scum? In a game where someone else also claimed Miller with better flavor (but was third-party Lyncher)? Do you see how there might be some difference here? I mean I get that trousers are not usually made from clear material but etc.Everything you say and do matters. People will respond in ways you may never see. May those responses be what you intend.-
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Lady Lambdadelta She/FaerRise of the PhoenixShe/Faer
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MAD and Happy Ever After is Terrorist Win, Vi.Yes my Lord, but questions are dangerous, for they have answers.
13 heads and counting now, plurality is adaptive. If our experience might help you,click here.
If you wish tospeak to one of us, we are Niamh, Rhiannon, Rhea, Aisling, Saoirse, Selene, Aoife, Fírinne, Aurélie, Lyra, Airna, Fiadh and Laoise.
Soar on wings of retribution and set the world ablaze-
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Lady Lambdadelta She/FaerRise of the PhoenixShe/Faer
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Which is why scum can't do that play if it works like I think it does.Yes my Lord, but questions are dangerous, for they have answers.
13 heads and counting now, plurality is adaptive. If our experience might help you,click here.
If you wish tospeak to one of us, we are Niamh, Rhiannon, Rhea, Aisling, Saoirse, Selene, Aoife, Fírinne, Aurélie, Lyra, Airna, Fiadh and Laoise.
Soar on wings of retribution and set the world ablaze-
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Lady Lambdadelta She/FaerRise of the PhoenixShe/Faer
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Also, Grey, I've narrowed scum down to Spyrex + Vi/UT. I'm not just SK hunting so you can eat a dick for that misrepresentation.Yes my Lord, but questions are dangerous, for they have answers.
13 heads and counting now, plurality is adaptive. If our experience might help you,click here.
If you wish tospeak to one of us, we are Niamh, Rhiannon, Rhea, Aisling, Saoirse, Selene, Aoife, Fírinne, Aurélie, Lyra, Airna, Fiadh and Laoise.
Soar on wings of retribution and set the world ablaze-
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Vi Professor Paragon
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also and tbf it is completely consistent for me to listen to GreyICE about who the Russians are and LLD about who the Terrorist is, neither of your words are in vain
I really just want to say that because while it is kind of in character for GreyICE to use :badmeta: against me it's still impressive to watch it happen in real time
MAD and Happy Ever After is Terrorist Win, Vi.
well "neutralized" is a weird termYou are aligned with only yourself. You win if everyone else has been neutralized, even if you are no longer alive.Everything you say and do matters. People will respond in ways you may never see. May those responses be what you intend.-
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Vi Professor Paragon
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Vi Professor Paragon
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this is the amazing part because people who have no experience with me would probably be like uhhhhh wtf is this and how is it not scummyIn post 5740, Vi wrote:HEY WAIT A MINUTE
I thought you were supposed to be able to see right through me LLD
whytf am I on your scumlist
but NO I'm surrounded by people who have copious experience with Vi-Town
even with like three years of rust and meta drift this one should be a slow pitchEverything you say and do matters. People will respond in ways you may never see. May those responses be what you intend.-
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Lady Lambdadelta She/FaerRise of the PhoenixShe/Faer
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1) PoE: Nahdia and MoI are likely townIn post 5740, Vi wrote:HEY WAIT A MINUTE
I thought you were supposed to be able to see right through me LLD
whytf am I on your scumlist
2) Logic: Scum have 1 more nuke, probably
3) Cheetory's behaviour: He nuked Hippo and made it seem like it was his emotional state that caused it.Yes my Lord, but questions are dangerous, for they have answers.
13 heads and counting now, plurality is adaptive. If our experience might help you,click here.
If you wish tospeak to one of us, we are Niamh, Rhiannon, Rhea, Aisling, Saoirse, Selene, Aoife, Fírinne, Aurélie, Lyra, Airna, Fiadh and Laoise.
Soar on wings of retribution and set the world ablaze-
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Lady Lambdadelta She/FaerRise of the PhoenixShe/Faer
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In post 5686, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:and the scum team knows this
The scum team knows GreyICE is SK... and need to lynch him today to win.
But then why did Cheet refuse to nuke Grey?In post 5687, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:maybe Vi can't be scum then...
This thought process is why I lean UT over you though, so.In post 5689, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:It's SpyreX and UT, isn't it.Yes my Lord, but questions are dangerous, for they have answers.
13 heads and counting now, plurality is adaptive. If our experience might help you,click here.
If you wish tospeak to one of us, we are Niamh, Rhiannon, Rhea, Aisling, Saoirse, Selene, Aoife, Fírinne, Aurélie, Lyra, Airna, Fiadh and Laoise.
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Vi Professor Paragon
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1) I feel like I asked for people to tell me why Moai is Town and words happened and my brain did not process them. There's still a fuzzy spot where MoI should be. For my sake, could you etc.?In post 5742, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:
1) PoE: Nahdia and MoI are likely townIn post 5740, Vi wrote:HEY WAIT A MINUTE
I thought you were supposed to be able to see right through me LLD
whytf am I on your scumlist
2) Logic: Scum have 1 more nuke, probably
3) Cheetory's behaviour: He nuked Hippo and made it seem like it was his emotional state that caused it.
2) What the hell kind of "Logic" is that? It's not a probabilistic argument. (This is disregarding how I think UT is scum for other reasons.)
3)screw hiplopI cannot make a counterargument to this at this time, nor will I be able to before the game is over.
cut: by that same token why didn't UT nuke GreyICE
I mean bearing in mind there's a simple explanation that no one thought things throughEverything you say and do matters. People will respond in ways you may never see. May those responses be what you intend.-
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Lady Lambdadelta She/FaerRise of the PhoenixShe/Faer
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UT nuking GreyICE is hard to do wihtout explination. Especially when UT has been on the choo choo mastin train, for a while now. Mental consistency is important for scum.In post 5744, Vi wrote:
1) I feel like I asked for people to tell me why Moai is Town and words happened and my brain did not process them. There's still a fuzzy spot where MoI should be. For my sake, could you etc.?In post 5742, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:
1) PoE: Nahdia and MoI are likely townIn post 5740, Vi wrote:HEY WAIT A MINUTE
I thought you were supposed to be able to see right through me LLD
whytf am I on your scumlist
2) Logic: Scum have 1 more nuke, probably
3) Cheetory's behaviour: He nuked Hippo and made it seem like it was his emotional state that caused it.
2) What the hell kind of "Logic" is that? It's not a probabilistic argument. (This is disregarding how I think UT is scum for other reasons.)
3)screw hiplopI cannot make a counterargument to this at this time, nor will I be able to before the game is over.
cut: by that same token why didn't UT nuke GreyICE
I mean bearing in mind there's a simple explanation that no one thought things through
Cheetory was being pressured by me and as scum had every right to just be like "fuck it" and send the nuke at Grey and then blame me later for brain washing hm or something IDK.
It's way more meaningfulYes my Lord, but questions are dangerous, for they have answers.
13 heads and counting now, plurality is adaptive. If our experience might help you,click here.
If you wish tospeak to one of us, we are Niamh, Rhiannon, Rhea, Aisling, Saoirse, Selene, Aoife, Fírinne, Aurélie, Lyra, Airna, Fiadh and Laoise.
Soar on wings of retribution and set the world ablaze-
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Lady Lambdadelta She/FaerRise of the PhoenixShe/Faer
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AND I TOLD YOU MY BRAIN DOESN'T WORK RATIONALLY, VI.
YOU KNOW THAT.Yes my Lord, but questions are dangerous, for they have answers.
13 heads and counting now, plurality is adaptive. If our experience might help you,click here.
If you wish tospeak to one of us, we are Niamh, Rhiannon, Rhea, Aisling, Saoirse, Selene, Aoife, Fírinne, Aurélie, Lyra, Airna, Fiadh and Laoise.
Soar on wings of retribution and set the world ablaze-
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Andrius The Baker
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Vi Professor Paragon
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*grips Andrius*
That sure is an interesting group of people not voting.Everything you say and do matters. People will respond in ways you may never see. May those responses be what you intend.-
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In post 5731, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:Mod, what happens if a town fail safe and a scum are the only ones left alive? Does the game instantly end in favour of the scum? Is MoI considered still a "threat" to the EU?
or does the scum have to actually issue a kill order on MoI... and then live for 48 hours?No, the game does not end immediately in favor of the scum. Every living player is considered a threat to every member of opposing factions."This is the true face of a man who plays paladin."
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