In post 195, nydushermain wrote:I think in like the 10 games I dove through that Accountant has been in, there was only 1 where he was scum. Now the scum game was actually very different to ALL the games that I read through so I thought that maybe I was wrong. But before then, call it confirmation bias, but the town games I read of him were different. They had him being a lot more aggressive towards people which I didn't see from him this game. I don't know the exact number that I read through but pretend the number is 9 town games. Then, I FINALLY found a scum game from accountant and was like "wow this is pretty different from his town play and the play in the current thread" so then I started completely doubting my read. For the sake of ego though, I went through another thread that was dated to be before the scum game (as all the town games I had seen him in were played AFTER the scum game). The town game that he played right before the game where he rolled scum was very similar to (in my opinion) that game. So my conclusion is: Accountant changed playstyles after having played scum that game for whatever reason. So I didn't misspeak in that I said the wrong read, I misspoke in terms of the intent.
That's a bad conclusion. The reason for this pattern is simple: I change my playstyle every game. Mood affects my playstyle. The strength of the reads I have affect my playstyle(if someone is being outrageously scummy, I'll be much more aggressive). The players I'm playing with affect my playstyle(if I'm playing with Thor, I become less of a town leader, because Thor is a better town leader than me and having two leaders in one game is excessive and creates horrible messes if they clash). Meta affects my playstyle(I know Nahdia looks out for me bussing when I'm scum, so if I'm scum against Nahdia I bus less). There are probably some unknown or subconscious factors that affect my playstyle that I don't even know about. It's a bad idea to try to draw a read on me from something like looking at my past games' tone.
There's nothing that says that a fake can't beat the real thing.
You must not imagine that for beings like you and us there can be laughter. The low men laugh, and we envy them. But for us, the higher ones, there is no laughter, only an unending vigil, purely serious, stretching on into the night.
In post 199, Ramcius wrote:Yes, you wait flip to trump after and tell how wrong wee wee and line up some ML, i don't see you as a town, you don't try solve DBW situation, you want him lynched, and your push on accountant based just on meta from reading other games is joke, you say we should vote our top scumread? i'm up for it
VOTE: Nydushermain
You don't read my other reasons for calling accountant scum. Have you heard of ISO?
In post 199, Ramcius wrote:Yes, you wait flip to trump after and tell how wrong wee wee and line up some ML, i don't see you as a town, you don't try solve DBW situation, you want him lynched, and your push on accountant based just on meta from reading other games is joke, you say we should vote our top scumread? i'm up for it
VOTE: Nydushermain
And what? I never implicated that I'd "berate people" or whatever for being potentially wrong on DBW. I presented both sides of him being scum or town.
In post 195, nydushermain wrote:I think in like the 10 games I dove through that Accountant has been in, there was only 1 where he was scum. Now the scum game was actually very different to ALL the games that I read through so I thought that maybe I was wrong. But before then, call it confirmation bias, but the town games I read of him were different. They had him being a lot more aggressive towards people which I didn't see from him this game. I don't know the exact number that I read through but pretend the number is 9 town games. Then, I FINALLY found a scum game from accountant and was like "wow this is pretty different from his town play and the play in the current thread" so then I started completely doubting my read. For the sake of ego though, I went through another thread that was dated to be before the scum game (as all the town games I had seen him in were played AFTER the scum game). The town game that he played right before the game where he rolled scum was very similar to (in my opinion) that game. So my conclusion is: Accountant changed playstyles after having played scum that game for whatever reason. So I didn't misspeak in that I said the wrong read, I misspoke in terms of the intent.
That's a bad conclusion. The reason for this pattern is simple: I change my playstyle every game. Mood affects my playstyle. The strength of the reads I have affect my playstyle(if someone is being outrageously scummy, I'll be much more aggressive). The players I'm playing with affect my playstyle(if I'm playing with Thor, I become less of a town leader, because Thor is a better town leader than me and having two leaders in one game is excessive and creates horrible messes if they clash). Meta affects my playstyle(I know Nahdia looks out for me bussing when I'm scum, so if I'm scum against Nahdia I bus less). There are probably some unknown or subconscious factors that affect my playstyle that I don't even know about. It's a bad idea to try to draw a read on me from something like looking at my past games' tone.
So do you not have strong scum reads this game then? Is that an explanation for your passiveness?
In post 177, nydushermain wrote:This is not the calm, meandering mindset that a townie has when the rest of the town is voting some lurker for no reason over their strongest scumread who their gut and overwhelming textual evidence!!! says is scum. I'd expect town!nydushermain in this position to be going "why the heck are you all voting DBW when obvscum is right here??" and getting more and more frustrated when nobody follows. The fact that you're openly denouncing the DBW wagon while not doing anything to stop it tells me that you're scum who wants to coast through D1 on a lurker wagon that nobody will blame him for. And
then
you have lynches lined up after DBW flips, all while looking like a brave and outspoken townie who's sitting on the IC.
If you want my read on you, here it is. I think you're scum.
VOTE: nydushermain
Also, you say that I'm trying to just coast through a D1 on a lurker wagon nobody will blame me for? If you're town accountant, read post 160. What you accuse me of is pretty much not voting on whoever is getting lynched today, them flipping town, and then me taking credit for it (similar to what ramcius is saying I think). Does the above post seem like someone who's trying to stand aside and just let whatever lynch go through and take credit for it? Does that really seem like my playstyle right now? Because if you're town accountant, I'm openly letting anyone bandwagon on you with me, including someone who read you scummy, and pretty much taking all credit for the mislynch. Yeah.. no.
In post 199, Ramcius wrote:Yes, you wait flip to trump after and tell how wrong wee wee and line up some ML, i don't see you as a town, you don't try solve DBW situation, you want him lynched, and your push on accountant based just on meta from reading other games is joke, you say we should vote our top scumread? i'm up for it
VOTE: Nydushermain
And what? I never implicated that I'd "berate people" or whatever for being potentially wrong on DBW. I presented both sides of him being scum or town.
exactly, you didn't do anything to make him talk, you simply say he can be town or scum, considering he said nothing useful yet, everyone can say same, and in different from you, we tried get him talking, but you don't want it, you just want him dead and see flip town
In post 196, nydushermain wrote:Now I could link these threads but it would involve me going through his thread history AGAIN which sounds like a complete waste of time. Also @accountant, you say that you expect me to be more angry about DBW being lynched over you? The thing is, like I said prior in 146, I'm waiting for a flip. That means that I'm open to being wrong on people and that although I have a scum read on you, there are 3 scum in this game, meaning that a lynch on another person could still produce a mafia.
There are 2 scum in this game, not 3. And that line of reasoning is bad. If I saw a lynch on a lurker that I think is bad while my top scum read is ignored, I'm not going to go "hmm, let's wait for a flip, maybe I'm wrong about the lurker", and that's not what any reasonable townie would think. This is an excuse generated by scum.
There's nothing that says that a fake can't beat the real thing.
You must not imagine that for beings like you and us there can be laughter. The low men laugh, and we envy them. But for us, the higher ones, there is no laughter, only an unending vigil, purely serious, stretching on into the night.
In post 204, nydushermain wrote:Also, you say that I'm trying to just coast through a D1 on a lurker wagon nobody will blame me for? If you're town accountant, read post 160. What you accuse me of is pretty much not voting on whoever is getting lynched today, them flipping town, and then me taking credit for it (similar to what ramcius is saying I think). Does the above post seem like someone who's trying to stand aside and just let whatever lynch go through and take credit for it? Does that really seem like my playstyle right now? Because if you're town accountant, I'm openly letting anyone bandwagon on you with me, including someone who read you scummy, and pretty much taking all credit for the mislynch. Yeah.. no.
No, what I am accusing you of is being
inconsistent
with your words and actions. You have explicitly said you think the DBW lynch isn't good:
I think DBW could potentially be scum but I think that going after obvious scum is better. There are people who have done things scummy, and then there are people who haven't done things towny. I'd rather lynch the former.
And you have explicitly said you think my lynch
is
good:
I think that an accountant wagon would be good
So it makes
no sense
to me for town!nydush to happily lay back and let the bad wagon go through over the good one while smiling and nodding and saying "well, maybe I'm wrong. Let's see how he flips!" and saying "of course, if he flips town, so-and-so need to be lynched, winky face".
There's nothing that says that a fake can't beat the real thing.
You must not imagine that for beings like you and us there can be laughter. The low men laugh, and we envy them. But for us, the higher ones, there is no laughter, only an unending vigil, purely serious, stretching on into the night.
In post 199, Ramcius wrote:Yes, you wait flip to trump after and tell how wrong wee wee and line up some ML, i don't see you as a town, you don't try solve DBW situation, you want him lynched, and your push on accountant based just on meta from reading other games is joke, you say we should vote our top scumread? i'm up for it
VOTE: Nydushermain
And what? I never implicated that I'd "berate people" or whatever for being potentially wrong on DBW. I presented both sides of him being scum or town.
exactly, you didn't do anything to make him talk, you simply say he can be town or scum, considering he said nothing useful yet, everyone can say same, and in different from you, we tried get him talking, but you don't want it, you just want him dead and see flip town
How do I want him dead? You're talking as if I'm coming from the mindset of scum but I want you to try to see if I can come up with the same shit I posted if I'm town. I don't know anyone's alignment this game. I LOVE digging through history and seeing who can be with who, whether I believe this person genuinely pushed on town or scum, etc. If DBW gets lynched, which I'm okay with because I don't know if I'm right on accountant, then fine, we lynch him. Any sort of alignment reveal helps me because I can dig into ISOs after. However, the person I read the scummiest is accountant and would I prefer a lynch on him? ABSOLUTELY and I've stated my reasons why. This doesn't mean that I'm trying to get some sort of "town cred" if DBW flips town. It means that I don't have a town read on DBW so there's a chance that he can be scum in my mind.
In post 202, nydushermain wrote:And what? I never implicated that I'd "berate people" or whatever for being potentially wrong on DBW. I presented both sides of him being scum or town.
You're right. You aren't going to "berate" them, you're going to lynch them.
In post 177, nydushermain wrote:If DBW gets lynched and flips town, I'd look at the people jumping on him for inactivity. That is just the easiest fluff read you can give as scum to lynch a town.
There's nothing that says that a fake can't beat the real thing.
You must not imagine that for beings like you and us there can be laughter. The low men laugh, and we envy them. But for us, the higher ones, there is no laughter, only an unending vigil, purely serious, stretching on into the night.
In post 204, nydushermain wrote:Also, you say that I'm trying to just coast through a D1 on a lurker wagon nobody will blame me for? If you're town accountant, read post 160. What you accuse me of is pretty much not voting on whoever is getting lynched today, them flipping town, and then me taking credit for it (similar to what ramcius is saying I think). Does the above post seem like someone who's trying to stand aside and just let whatever lynch go through and take credit for it? Does that really seem like my playstyle right now? Because if you're town accountant, I'm openly letting anyone bandwagon on you with me, including someone who read you scummy, and pretty much taking all credit for the mislynch. Yeah.. no.
No, what I am accusing you of is being
inconsistent
with your words and actions. You have explicitly said you think the DBW lynch isn't good:
I think DBW could potentially be scum but I think that going after obvious scum is better. There are people who have done things scummy, and then there are people who haven't done things towny. I'd rather lynch the former.
And you have explicitly said you think my lynch
is
good:
I think that an accountant wagon would be good
So it makes
no sense
to me for town!nydush to happily lay back and let the bad wagon go through over the good one while smiling and nodding and saying "well, maybe I'm wrong. Let's see how he flips!" and saying "of course, if he flips town, so-and-so need to be lynched, winky face".
The reason why I said a DBW lynch is bad is because YOU are my top lynch. If it goes through, honestly, w/e because he can still be scum but I personally want a lynch on who I think is scummier.
In post 196, nydushermain wrote:Now I could link these threads but it would involve me going through his thread history AGAIN which sounds like a complete waste of time. Also @accountant, you say that you expect me to be more angry about DBW being lynched over you? The thing is, like I said prior in 146, I'm waiting for a flip. That means that I'm open to being wrong on people and that although I have a scum read on you, there are 3 scum in this game, meaning that a lynch on another person could still produce a mafia.
There are 2 scum in this game, not 3. And that line of reasoning is bad. If I saw a lynch on a lurker that I think is bad while my top scum read is ignored, I'm not going to go "hmm, let's wait for a flip, maybe I'm wrong about the lurker", and that's not what any reasonable townie would think. This is an excuse generated by scum.
So when we have many days left and I could be wrong on a lurker, you don't think it's reasonable for me to be waiting for a flip so that I can go do ISO dives and see what the interactions are with people and whoever flipped? Get out of here.
In post 202, nydushermain wrote:And what? I never implicated that I'd "berate people" or whatever for being potentially wrong on DBW. I presented both sides of him being scum or town.
You're right. You aren't going to "berate" them, you're going to lynch them.
In post 177, nydushermain wrote:If DBW gets lynched and flips town, I'd look at the people jumping on him for inactivity. That is just the easiest fluff read you can give as scum to lynch a town.
So let's set up a hypothetical. Someone gets lynched and flips town. Do you think they have a greater than 50% chance of having scum in the wagon?
In post 210, nydushermain wrote:The reason why I said a DBW lynch is bad is because YOU are my top lynch. If it goes through, honestly, w/e because he can still be scum but I personally want a lynch on who I think is scummier.
I don't buy that at all. In a situation such as yours, a townie would be trying to show everyone how scummy I am so they'll agree with you that I am scummier and lynch me. You would be questioning me and attacking me harshly rather than going "yeah, I said something on page 3, remember that?" Here's why - it's clear that nobody buys your analysis of why I'm scum, so if you were town who were convinced I'm scum, you want to generate new content, you want to pressure me and make me slip up and make me do stuff that
would
make town buy that I'm scum. You have absolutely no reason to rehash old stuff that people have shown they aren't convinced by(or the wagon on me would be much bigger).
You tell me you want an Accountant wagon, but you aren't showing it. You're sitting back and coasting along.
There's nothing that says that a fake can't beat the real thing.
You must not imagine that for beings like you and us there can be laughter. The low men laugh, and we envy them. But for us, the higher ones, there is no laughter, only an unending vigil, purely serious, stretching on into the night.
In post 210, nydushermain wrote:The reason why I said a DBW lynch is bad is because YOU are my top lynch. If it goes through, honestly, w/e because he can still be scum but I personally want a lynch on who I think is scummier.
I don't buy that at all. In a situation such as yours, a townie would be trying to show everyone how scummy I am so they'll agree with you that I am scummier and lynch me. You would be questioning me and attacking me harshly rather than going "yeah, I said something on page 3, remember that?" Here's why - it's clear that nobody buys your analysis of why I'm scum, so if you were town who were convinced I'm scum, you want to generate new content, you want to pressure me and make me slip up and make me do stuff that
would
make town buy that I'm scum. You have absolutely no reason to rehash old stuff that people have shown they aren't convinced by(or the wagon on me would be much bigger).
You tell me you want an Accountant wagon, but you aren't showing it. You're sitting back and coasting along.
Actually, pepchoninga gave a very similar reason to me for thinking you were scum. I pinged him to jump on the wagon with me. It doesn't seem clear at all. What seems clear is that no one is actually reading WHY I think you're scum and is just making dumb assessments based on the last couple of things I've said.
In post 211, nydushermain wrote:So when we have many days left and I could be wrong on a lurker, you don't think it's reasonable for me to be waiting for a flip so that I can go do ISO dives and see what the interactions are with people and whoever flipped? Get out of here.
It's not reasonable at all. Town would
never
be in a mindset of "hoping they are wrong and trying to make the best of it" when SCUMLORD ACCOUNTANT!!! still exists and lives and breathes. Town would definitely be pushing for the lynch of someone they think is scum because as good as ISO diving a flipped player might be, lynching someone you
actually think is scum
is
by far
superior to any other lynch, and that is the kind of mindset that a townie attempting to catch scum would have. What you have described is the mindset of a mafia member pretending to be town and wanting mislynches to go through while trying to sell us on the idea that it's perfectly reasonable for a townie to not care if town lynches the wrong person.
You keep trying to emphasize to us how you're so filled with self-doubt and are so woeful about how you might be wrong about DBW that maybe the other townies know best after all and it's okay to see him flip - but that is completely incongruous with the certainty you have displayed about how I am scum because I use "mafia" instead of "they".
There's nothing that says that a fake can't beat the real thing.
You must not imagine that for beings like you and us there can be laughter. The low men laugh, and we envy them. But for us, the higher ones, there is no laughter, only an unending vigil, purely serious, stretching on into the night.
In post 214, nydushermain wrote:Actually, pepchoninga gave a very similar reason to me for thinking you were scum. I pinged him to jump on the wagon with me. It doesn't seem clear at all. What seems clear is that no one is actually reading WHY I think you're scum and is just making dumb assessments based on the last couple of things I've said.
If you acknowledge that nobody else is convinced by your extremely shoddy line of logic about why I'm scum, then if you were really convinced I'm scum you'd be trying to come up with new, more convincing lines of logic. That's what you would be focused on. The idea of letting a suboptimal lynch run through would never cross your mind at all, unless you were a player who was particularly doubtful of themselves or unconfident in their scumhunting - which doesn't fit with what you've shown us at all.
There's nothing that says that a fake can't beat the real thing.
You must not imagine that for beings like you and us there can be laughter. The low men laugh, and we envy them. But for us, the higher ones, there is no laughter, only an unending vigil, purely serious, stretching on into the night.
In post 199, Ramcius wrote:Yes, you wait flip to trump after and tell how wrong wee wee and line up some ML, i don't see you as a town, you don't try solve DBW situation, you want him lynched, and your push on accountant based just on meta from reading other games is joke, you say we should vote our top scumread? i'm up for it
VOTE: Nydushermain
And what? I never implicated that I'd "berate people" or whatever for being potentially wrong on DBW. I presented both sides of him being scum or town.
exactly, you didn't do anything to make him talk, you simply say he can be town or scum, considering he said nothing useful yet, everyone can say same, and in different from you, we tried get him talking, but you don't want it, you just want him dead and see flip town
How do I want him dead? You're talking as if I'm coming from the mindset of scum but I want you to try to see if I can come up with the same shit I posted if I'm town. I don't know anyone's alignment this game. I LOVE digging through history and seeing who can be with who, whether I believe this person genuinely pushed on town or scum, etc. If DBW gets lynched, which I'm okay with because I don't know if I'm right on accountant, then fine, we lynch him. Any sort of alignment reveal helps me because I can dig into ISOs after. However, the person I read the scummiest is accountant and would I prefer a lynch on him? ABSOLUTELY and I've stated my reasons why. This doesn't mean that I'm trying to get some sort of "town cred" if DBW flips town. It means that I don't have a town read on DBW so there's a chance that he can be scum in my mind.
i can't see your actions as a town, cause i never would do this as a town, and i would always do so as a scum, and just 1 more time - WE WASN"T GOING LYNCH DBW - but you want it, aren't you? Cause you know he's gonna flip town, and you saying you don't know anyone alignment in this game, it's so forced townslip, i don't see town saying something like that, and for end, you never lynch active person on hunch early - you don't want end game with lurkers, been there, i know what i'm saying, unless you scum, then you want that, easier pull ML with lurkers in end
Show me where Pepchoninga agreed with your posts about me being scum because I said "mafia" instead of "they".
There's nothing that says that a fake can't beat the real thing.
You must not imagine that for beings like you and us there can be laughter. The low men laugh, and we envy them. But for us, the higher ones, there is no laughter, only an unending vigil, purely serious, stretching on into the night.
In post 217, Ramcius wrote:and you saying you don't know anyone alignment in this game, it's so forced townslip
If we're talking about forced townslips, then I think his "there are 3 scum in the game" thing qualifies just as well.
There's nothing that says that a fake can't beat the real thing.
You must not imagine that for beings like you and us there can be laughter. The low men laugh, and we envy them. But for us, the higher ones, there is no laughter, only an unending vigil, purely serious, stretching on into the night.
In post 214, nydushermain wrote:Actually, pepchoninga gave a very similar reason to me for thinking you were scum. I pinged him to jump on the wagon with me. It doesn't seem clear at all. What seems clear is that no one is actually reading WHY I think you're scum and is just making dumb assessments based on the last couple of things I've said.
If you acknowledge that nobody else is convinced by your extremely shoddy line of logic about why I'm scum, then if you were really convinced I'm scum you'd be trying to come up with new, more convincing lines of logic. That's what you would be focused on. The idea of letting a suboptimal lynch run through would never cross your mind at all, unless you were a player who was particularly doubtful of themselves or unconfident in their scumhunting - which doesn't fit with what you've shown us at all.
The problem here is that the notes I've made are in my head. If I could go back in time and make specific bookmarks of everything I've seen in your past games, I would but at the time, I was mostly looking for where you ended up being scum. Yes, I can assure you that I've been trying in my head to solve your alignment and maybe I'm doing it poorly in the environment of forum mafia because I'm not giving concrete evidence but trust me when I say I've tried to consider you as town. Confirmation bias is hard to overcome and to me, you're scummier than not.
In post 217, Ramcius wrote:and you saying you don't know anyone alignment in this game, it's so forced townslip
If we're talking about forced townslips, then I think his "there are 3 scum in the game" thing qualifies just as well.
FOR THE RECORD, I didn't want to mention that at all because I realized what I said after I said it and that's not my playstyle to try to be townread off a slip but I come from a video mafia community where the smallest game size has 3 mafia.
In post 199, Ramcius wrote:Yes, you wait flip to trump after and tell how wrong wee wee and line up some ML, i don't see you as a town, you don't try solve DBW situation, you want him lynched, and your push on accountant based just on meta from reading other games is joke, you say we should vote our top scumread? i'm up for it
VOTE: Nydushermain
And what? I never implicated that I'd "berate people" or whatever for being potentially wrong on DBW. I presented both sides of him being scum or town.
exactly, you didn't do anything to make him talk, you simply say he can be town or scum, considering he said nothing useful yet, everyone can say same, and in different from you, we tried get him talking, but you don't want it, you just want him dead and see flip town
How do I want him dead? You're talking as if I'm coming from the mindset of scum but I want you to try to see if I can come up with the same shit I posted if I'm town. I don't know anyone's alignment this game. I LOVE digging through history and seeing who can be with who, whether I believe this person genuinely pushed on town or scum, etc. If DBW gets lynched, which I'm okay with because I don't know if I'm right on accountant, then fine, we lynch him. Any sort of alignment reveal helps me because I can dig into ISOs after. However, the person I read the scummiest is accountant and would I prefer a lynch on him? ABSOLUTELY and I've stated my reasons why. This doesn't mean that I'm trying to get some sort of "town cred" if DBW flips town. It means that I don't have a town read on DBW so there's a chance that he can be scum in my mind.
i can't see your actions as a town, cause i never would do this as a town, and i would always do so as a scum, and just 1 more time - WE WASN"T GOING LYNCH DBW - but you want it, aren't you? Cause you know he's gonna flip town, and you saying you don't know anyone alignment in this game, it's so forced townslip, i don't see town saying something like that, and for end, you never lynch active person on hunch early - you don't want end game with lurkers, been there, i know what i'm saying, unless you scum, then you want that, easier pull ML with lurkers in end
Honestly, there's a good chance he's going to flip town. 3 lurkers out of 9 players, 2 being mafia? That's just a good statistic for him. That's all I have on him. If you say you can't see me as town because you PERSONALLY can't see yourself playing the way I have, that's fine. If you're so thick headed that you can't see people having different playstyles compared to you, by all means, lynch me. I still think you're town but you're heading in a horrible direction.
is it bussing Pepchonga? Cause me and Carloux too accused Accountant early in game, yet you ignored that fact and say on Pepchonga scumread Accountant, hence i never said i changed my mind on Accountant, i still don't trust, but i rather go in end game with Accountant than DBW, Pepchonga or other lurker
