Mini 1853: Trial of the Evoker [Game Over]

[Prism]

Some of the setup discussion is useful, a lot of it is redundant. I want to get away from it, so this post will have my only thoughts on it for awhile. My next post will have a more intro feel.

tl;dr: If your power passes, and most do by default, pass it to someone you want to have it next, not to the person you want the result on (ex. a cop spell). Please don't throw away your tracker/watcher ability on a scumread and subsequently lose it for the rest of the game as scum pass it back and forth. Iron probably shouldn't have claimed, as it blocks only the first spell, and therefore is most likely to pass to town unless targeted by a nightkill-in which case, great. (Reflecting an investigation is bad, however the user still keeps their power for the next night and gain a fancy new nightkill shield) I'm assuming "first" is decided by NAR. Dunn's was a good claim. In general I don't think MCing Day 1 is a good idea, partially because it makes the game less fun, but more importantly because such a thing is literally the first thing a setup designer thinks of and balances accordingly.

[Prism]

Rereading it looks like BTD6 already went over some of my last post. Oh well, worth repeating.

Okay, introduction time. Hi all, this'll be my first theme game and second on-site so I'm really excited to play. Of all the starts, I find probably Sondam and

Some RQS if you'd like, I'm not going to hound you if you don't:

1) What's your favorite game of mafia? What happened?

2) Do you feel like you get lynched more as town or scum? What do you think the typical reasoning is?

3) Describe your mindset when playing scum. Eg. Is your main focus to towntell, to set up mislynches, to set up your partners, to bruteforce a win yourself?

I'll answer in a separate post later when I have some more time.

I don't think either Dunn or Iron's claims are particularly town. They're a balance factor that make sense as starting spells for either alignment, and there are real incentives to immediately claim them as mafia. Of all the players who have posted so far, I like, in a purely mafia-related sense, Sondam and BTD6. The person I like the least is Wisdom so
VOTE: Wisdom

Note to the hydras: The more you post, and the less immediately pertinent it is, the less likely I (and I assume others) are to read them. Consequently, any good points you may make will be lost. Be judicious.

I don't want to be snarky but I already find these first 5 pages borderline unreadable and I don't know if I can take 20-100 more pages of it without dayvigging someone.

P-Edit: For real I hate to be a funkiller but tone it down.

[Prism]

Sorry I forgot to sign.

~P

[Prism]

Signing doesnt have to be done if its only one person in that account of yours. And I assume that if you do have second person using that account you wont say anything.

That was the joke.

[Prism]

Batoru please, private chat is a thing and if you forget to sign a post we'll probably live.

anywho y wisdom?

I used the words "like" and "don't like' because it's me staring at the posts and waiting for my neurons to magically give me an answer to start with. I'll have more later, but these are just my first impressions.

[Prism]

@Prism I can't chat with Dunn outside the game about my hydra slips.... That's ongoing game discussion.

I'm referring to between your heads.

[Prism]

Gamma: i disagree, i think the third question is good. scum can lie about their meta if they want to, in a wide variety of situations. the third question provides an opportunity to examine a players play and see if they appear to be matching their supposed scum meta at all. a player aware enough to give a fairly accurate portrayal of their scum mindset could then try to avoid playing in the manner they described, among other things.

I don't think it's a good idea to give responses to people's answers, or speculate as to their implications, until after more people have answered. To respond to Gamma but not delve any further than Chara has, yes, if scum want to lie, this is more than okay-it is

ideal

.

I mean "What they claimed" are arguably NAI. But the fact they claimed it is a part of their playing and definitely isn't.

and there are real incentives to immediately claim them as mafia.

I don't have X-Ray meta vision. My impression is that the way they've played thus far is null. Is this the objective case? No. Is this the subjective case? Certainly.

How is the first 5 pages unreadable?

Page 5 because a picture is worth a thousand words.

This is pretty clearly to do with my own ideas of what good posting looks like (very subjective). What's the aim of this question? Can you give me an example of either a scummy answer or town answer?

[Prism]

But why is pushing them to see what they will do afterward to sort them is an invalid tactic to you?

I never said it was. My statement was actually in response to outed townreads. Specifically, the one from Batoru:

I dunnot think dunn is scum this game

partly just for his claim, partly on tone

-tama

But in this particular case I wanted to know what about hydra posts are bothering you to be more gentle and kind and try to avoid it.

Thanks for being considerate if this is the case. I laid a more blanket "be judicious" statement on purpose, but if you're looking for something specifically I can give it. One is the constant forgetfulness of Batoru which has resulted in a clogged thread (Total they've had 36 posts). Another is the spam of Sondam. They had every post from #98 to #108 except for #101 & #104. From #98-#139 they had 22 posts out of 41. While I recognize the fun in doing so, as well as the fact it is not inherently bad play, it's not as fun for me to work around and read through.

Again, I want to emphasize that I recognize that Batoru's extra posts are simple accidents and that Sondam's aren't malicious/inherently bad play, but the above are more specific examples of why I asked to be more judicious when posting.

[Prism]

I like the Mega vote. #185 is some pretty accusatory language putting something in my mouth, and while their stated reason behind the question is courteous, I'm not really sure I buy it. My impression of it was that it was a question for the sake of it.

VOTE: Mega Frozen

[Prism]

@Prism what? I was talking about your attaking hydra thingi - how is my reasoning courteous but you won't buy it ... and thats how I play to question everything I see

First, this says nothing about the first part of my statement which is the bigger reason behind my vote:

#185 is some pretty accusatory language putting something in my mouth

To elaborate on why this is scummy to me, you're priding yourself on asking questions to "see into our minds" but my interpretation of your #185 is very different. If I had discouraged people from pushing Dunn/iron, that would be very scummy indeed and you were quick to jump on this-but that simply never happened. It appears you weren't really keeping track of my statements and were jumping ahead to a "Gotcha!" moment. Honest mistake? Possibly. But I see no reason for me to

assume

that is the case.

Second, about the hydra questioning, you say "how is my reasoning courteous but you won't buy it." Why should the fact that it's nice mean I believe you? Your explanation being courteous and being legitimate are two separate things. Questioning everything is a valid playstyle-but if I don't see the investigative intent behind it, why should I assume it's town? I do not consider this a convincing reason to vote you, the first part is the big reason. I'm only responding to it due to your question.

I can ask questions all day. That fact alone will never tell you what my role PM says. The fact that you do the same isn't going to tell me anything about yours. The

content

of those questions, on the other hand, are very valuable.

unless you explain why is that scummy your argument is pure shit.

I think its quality is independent of whether or not I explain it. If you want to replace "pure shit" with "unclear" or "unvoiced" that would probably be more appropriate.

[Prism]

I didn't understand it and I didn't put anything in your mouth?

and yes I felt your discourageing people from that by saying their both nai and it shouldn't be followed. thats why I asked about it from you in first place

Did you or did you not claim both what has been done about Dunn and Iron were NAI to explain why your not going to follow the formed wagons/arguements against them or not?

How was my question putting something in your mouth?

This is exactly what I am talking about. This is not an accurate portrayal at all of my post. What you said was a big misinterpretation of my post at best. Here it is quoted again:

I don't think either Dunn or Iron's claims are particularly town. They're a balance factor that make sense as starting spells for either alignment, and there are real incentives to immediately claim them as mafia.

This is in response to a townread given on the basis of their claim. I wasn't discouraging people from questioning them further like you were suggesting-I was discouraging people from townreading them based off their claim alone. If anything I was encouraging skepticism. It suggests you weren't (and still aren't)

actually

keeping track of my thoughts or trying to see into my mind like you claim. Presumably, if you were trying to understand my thought process, you would have actually taken note of what I said. How you described it in #185 and now is completely inaccurate.

and I think I don't understand english here. what is courteous exactly? I interpreted it as somthing that you judge true not nice

Polite is the closest synonym.

I know how to scumhuant thank you ; you don't need to start teaching me. what about me asking questions is scummy?

I'm trying to explain my thought process to you. You know I'm trying to explain it to you. Asking like I'm avoiding the answer is really redundant.

I never insulted you in any manner stop taking offended mantle. I insulted your scumread on my play style. Idea's are insultable. and no its not just unclear. its pure shit.

You can insult my argument all you want, but as I said, you can't judge it accurately before you have it explained to you. If no one explained the Theory of Relativity to you, would it be pure shit as well?

Trying to understand someone else's argument while calling it pure shit-without ever hearing it-is not trying to understand someone's argument. It's assuming they're wrong from the start.

P-Edit: I have responded to all of your #267 in full within the post itself. You are acting like I am taking issue with scumhunting in general, or with asking questions. I have made it clear that this is not my argument. I, again, do not think

that question

had

real

intent to investigate my alignment.

[Prism]

You're taking this as an attack on your playstyle, which it

is not.

It is questioning why you, as someone who is trying to "get into the minds of others" and asking questions to "draw it out" did not take note of what my post said. Your account of my post was that I was discouraging questioning Dunn/iron, and would be very scummy indeed if it were true. Yet, it never happened. In truth I did the opposite. This seems contradictory to me. Are you really trying to get into my mind if you didn't even try to understand my statement to begin with, or are you just looking for a reason to push a lynch?

[Prism]

Frozen's play is probably worth a metadive and I'll try to get around to it another day. To answer Gamma, I did RQS because I thought it would be useful. I didn't spend too much time thinking them up, they were just the first ones I thought of in 2-3 minutes, but they all have a purpose. What answer did you expect from a scum vs. town me here?

I'm not, but I want to see frozen lynched and if me flipping town proves my fos isn't scum motivated then maybe you guys will listen.

This is a pretty big overreaction. Does your FOS have even a 50% chance of being mafia? If you're town, there's 9 other town and 3 mafia. I wouldn't be so eager to jump into giving us something that's likely a double mislynch. Saying this just makes me want to lynch you hoping you're mafia and then subsequently discard your FoS if you flip town, and that's not the thought you want to inspire in anyone.[quote="In

VOTE: Ironstove
I think this is frozen's town game

This guy is scum

Agreed

Can you expound on this? The reasoning isn't immediately clear to me.

[Prism]

I'm not, but I want to see frozen lynched and if me flipping town proves my fos isn't scum motivated then maybe you guys will listen.

I was also curious about the Frozen townread. Was that a part you agree with

[Prism]

@Batoru
@ironstove

I'm not, but I want to see frozen lynched and if me flipping town proves my fos isn't scum motivated then maybe you guys will listen.

I was also curious about the Frozen townread. Was that a part you agree with

This post was a mistake-I didn't mean to quote iron here. This is directed to Batoru.

[Prism]

This is a pretty scummy post. How exactly can I determine if my fos has a '50% chance they are mafia'?

What is this bs that you are pulling out of your a$$?

That's the point, given that any player drawn at random has a 25% chance of being scum, are you even confident in your read doubling that chance? Chances are your current FOS is not 2x more accurate than a name drawn at random, regardless of how good of a player you are. This goes even more when you yourself said you weren't that sure. That chance was arbitrary to demonstrate my point-why rush into something that's more likely than not a back to back mislynch as town?

[Prism]

(with the mindset that they're town and a lot of "am I crazy?" and "find another ML to push"-type stuff + some other posts I'd have to go back and quote to explain)

Do mafia go out of their way to look like they have a mafia mindset?

JaeReed thought your vote on the wagon was odd and I don't think it was SvS odd.

What's odd about it? I explained it pretty clearly (and more than once, out of necessity). Jumping to considering SvS here is really puzzling to me as well, unless you scumread both of us which is not what you've expressed.

[Prism]

The general feel of the thread seemed to just start edging towards more people scumreading Mega Frozen. Fire Assassin outed a scumread on them, and then you voted following that, whilst citing a post that you had previously responded to with seeming polite gratitude as a reason. It didn't sit right with me. It felt like you were trying to find a reason to go with the flow and blend in.

Let's review the timeline here. In #184 I take issue with a question that to me seemed pretty pointless, in the sense that it didn't help discern my alignment. Frozen immediately responds explaining that it's to see what bothers me.

In post #190, I first pointed out the discrepancy between what I said and Frozen's description. Additionally, I made it very clear that I only considered Frozen's response to 184 courteous

if true

.

Fire's FoS is given in #217 and I follow it up with my vote in #220

#185 is some pretty accusatory language putting something in my mouth, and while their stated reason behind the question is courteous, I'm not really sure I buy it. My impression of it was that it was a question for the sake of it.

The last part is what you're referring to as strange. Yet, I expressed skepticism of the purpose of the question

twice

before Fire's FoS or my vote, once by asking directly and once by implying I didn't necessarily believe it. The fact I'd cite not believing it, then, should not be a surprise. Additionally, I make it clear in the posts thereafter that the main reason I am voting for them is not the original question but about their description of my statements on Dunn/iron-and expound on that indepth in the subsequent posts, which I considered much worse.

Timeline shows I definitely wasn't just following Fire.

It felt like you were trying to find a reason to go with the flow and blend in.

Following up on this section, what was your judgement of my point on Frozen's misinterpretation of my post (later plausibly explained by Frozen)? Did you not find it scummy prior to resolution? Why not?

[Prism]

I thought I had submitted a post containing my answers to my own questions-it appears that was not the case.

1) What's your favorite game of mafia? What happened?

I was scum, and leveraged a player's ego and obsession with proving themselves my better for my own use. I got them to purposely scumread me knowing they'd blow the subsequent 3 way out of arrogance. I was right. The player considered the game a moral victory. Next favorite would be the time I confidently declared I would hammer all three mafia back to back, and proceeded to go 0/4. There's a lesson in both of these-egos lose games.

2) Do you feel like you get lynched more as town or scum? What do you think the typical reasoning is?

I get lynched more as town. My mafia game is considerably stronger above my town game. I fake a lot of common towntells as mafia, but make no effort to fake them as town. The result is the ironic perception that I'm being "less town than normal" the games I am actually town.

3) Describe your mindset when playing scum. Eg. Is your main focus to towntell, to set up mislynches, to set up your partners, to bruteforce a win yourself?

I prefer to trade myself for two mislynches by bruteforcing one mislynch then framing someone else to go down with me afterwards. I let my partners do the rest. I do not like to be the scum making a deep run.

[Prism]

Second part of this is what I want a response to.

I expected town you to answer something like "I wanted to do it" or whatever.

Anything I do in a mafia game is because I think it's useful-I don't do anything, or say a single word, that I think is useless. I mean this in the most literal sense. Call it wanting to if it makes it easier.

I'll be honest here: the use of RQS from you pings my scumdar.

Why?

[Prism]

I'm liking my vote on Gamma more now. I questioned the Frozen read as townreads from others came in affirming that this is just how Frozen plays, but it still came off as too forceful with the "I'm town" reminders. Since Gamma's gone solo it's made me feel better about it.

I can't tell you.

That's probably because your read was bullshit.

I'm not buying the Iron townread either.

[Prism]

That looks vastly different from Frozen's posts this game to me, so thank you for linking it.

[Prism]

Reviewing it more carefully "vastly" is a misnomer but I still see them as very different, particularly 1. The intent/usefulness of the questions is more visible in that game 2. She seemed a lot less high strung about being scumread than she was this game.

[Prism]

@Nahdia: V/LA until Monday

Noted.

Will respond to everything when I have time, only thing that's a short response is

@Ruko:

I meant to type "Why or why not?" but I was exhausted and just typed the last part. I noticed it last night but didn't bother correcting it as it was a tone issue not a semantic one.. Looking forward to your reread of the question later, and will respond to the rest of yours when time is created.

[Prism]

My point on Frozen was not that they were intentionally misrepresenting my statement, but rather that it was almost certainly

unintentional

. My point is that if they were trying to "get in my head" or understand me as they claimed, it would be a much harder mistake to make.

[Prism]

Don't like Dunn's jump to my defense. Coming right after Sondam voiced suspicion, Batoru eat your heart out.

VOTE: Dunnstral

[Prism]

VOTE: Prism

I like this better.

Pretty humorous that pointing out that giving us a 75% chance of a double mislynch is not a good town play earns me a vote.

[Prism]

Alright, finally have time.

First, again, Sondam, can you please stop posting 9 times in a row and try to keep it 3 or less? It's obnoxious to read and so far I haven't bothered since early on.

You can buzz off.

You wish. There's 0 chance you think me using RQS is a scumtell and I'm probably going to move my vote back in a day or two.

Prism: i see your points on Frozen, and ones like 482 in particular seem very nit-picky.

#482 isn't "nitpicky". It's an entirely different argument from what was being portrayed, it wasn't just arguing phrasing. People were missing my point entirely.

if one is misreading/misunderstanding the wording of something, it's NAI. she wouldn't be more likely to pick up on that as town, and trying to quantify how much a player is trying to read you based on something so flimsy, is just going to lead to a lot of unnecessary semantic arguments.

Disagree. Any town player, sure. Frozen's described mindset, it is a lot less likely to make that mistake. Conclusion: Probably wasn't in the mindset described.

What don't you like about Dunn's jump to your defense?

No reason to do it.

How do you feel about Sondam stating Dunn is scum then voting BTD6?

I haven't read Sondam and have no plans to do so.

Thoughts on iron?

Don't know their alignment but whatever they're doing now isn't what they should be doing, and I've already been over why.

[Prism]

It's an entirely different argument from what was being portrayed, it wasn't just arguing phrasing. People were missing my point entirely.

To clarify, "Frozen intentionally misrepresented me and is therefore scum" and "Frozen accidentally misrepresented me in her question, which based off of her expressed intention to really dig deep and get into my head with her questions, seems less likely as town" are two very different things.

[Prism]

Not able to devote as much time as I want to this right now, apologies.

For now my vote is still fine, as is any on Gamma. Don't like Sondam wagon. I want more from Chara and pisskop.

[Prism]

Prism: scum

Again for supposedly being more likely to use RQS as scum. God only knows how I'd ever manage to play as mafia if I can't even figure out how I prefer to start the game as town.

[Prism]

I'm interested to hear why people townread Dunnstral.

P-Edit: Agree on Batoru.

[Prism]

Can you maybe combine these into single posts?

[Prism]

As in, not now, but in the future?

[Prism]

BTW could you explain what you mean by this?

Your only cited reason is the fact I used RQS. If I'm scum, and I can't even figure out that I don't RQS as town, I'm a horrible scum.

[Prism]

I don't really townread Sondam that much but I'm not liking this lynch. The past few pages have sold me a lot more on my Dunnstral vote.

I got 0 answers for my "Why do people townread Dunnstral?" question.

[Prism]

sondam might be just terribad town and the scum team might just be {not chara, ironstove, prism}. Not entirely sure. Fine lynching any of those 4 though.

So to be explicit, you townread all of Batoru, Dunn, BTD6, Gamma, Dreamers, Fire, Wisdom, and pisskop?

Suggestion of anything ironstove/me is borderline hilarious.

VOTE: Nosferatu

[Prism]

Preliminarily after skimming both, I would be decently surprised if either of Nos or Dunn flipped town.

[Prism]

Preemptive proddodge until Sunday.

[Prism]

Hi all, I know I've fallen completely by the wayside for the past week or so, I'll try to catchup today or tomorrow.

[Prism]

I don't like either of these votes. I still prefer Dunnstral and Nosferatu, more the former than the latter.

VOTE: Dunnstral

I haven't like Dunnstral all game. Things like #263 feel like hogwash to me. The townread on me made no sense. In #350 they said they thought this game matched Frozen's town meta, but the game he links in #459 has Frozen playing entirely differently. The explanation behind his votes is nonexistent and he's been almost entirely on the defensive, either directly or indirectly through posts that have no point other than to say something for the sake of it. Posts like #1131 and #1180 don't feel legitimate whatsoever. His posts for the past 600 or so have been practically useless outside of discussing his own claim.

Gamma has gotten a lot more town ever since our interaction like 20 pages back where he went through and read the game giving his stream of consciousness. Batoru is still very town in my book.

I don't like the Sondam wagon much at all, G's attitude all game has been awful but I'm not here to lynch people for having a bad attitude. The only read that I really questioned, G's TR on Iron, I found myself agreeing with after I went back and ISO'd them. I'm not pisskop's #1 fan either but I think there's better votes eg. Dunnstral, but if I'm forced to vote between these two that's who I'm choosing later.

[Prism]

I really really dislike Prism. Her reads are BS and the whole "can you consolidate your posts please" said several times is yucky.

My reads are the same as yours besides Dunnstral. Why is the last part alignment indicative?

VOTE: Prism

Is this a viable wagon? I would rather this over Pisskop.

Pisskop is scum for obvious reasons. Dodgy, isn't offering any help really.

Uh?

[Prism]

People keep voting things I don't really like and it's kind of my own fault for not paying much attention.

Aside from the votes on pisskop this is basically a game of "Bandwagon Prism's townreads" even though it took me awhile to come around on Gamma and eventually get what he was saying.

[Prism]

No emotion at all just spouting out reads reasons and asking people to consolidate their posts.

Sorry, what? I had a lengthy dukeout with Frozen, a followup with Batoru, another dukeout with Gamma, and finally points against Dunnstral. My requests about post consolidation have

never

been posted on their own without significant content accompaniment except for #677, which is in the middle of a dialogue with Gamma.

As for "no emotion" how you get no emotion out of: #458 especially, #462, #494, #544, #663, #1411.

If anything this is the most emotional or personal I've ever gotten in an online mafia game.

P-Edit: Not a fan of no lynch. Odd numbers etc.

[Prism]

That post from Sondam is pretty bad and I haven't updated my read on them in eons but still not a big fan.

May I again suggest a Dunnstral reread?

[Prism]

I really hate these top two wagons but we're all out of time. Vote is on the weaker townread not because of Gamma's claim.

VOTE: Sondam

Gamma needs to ping Iron tonight, and no other town should target Iron

This is in my opinion but pinging is negative utility anyway, Gamma can decide for himself how viable my proposal is, and what on earth town wants to target iron with anything else? Don't do it.

[Prism]

If you're town you need to get in here and vote someone viable ASAP, I want Pisskop or Dunnstral but for 3 hours we don't have the numbers

[Prism]

Town bucket: Batoru, Sondam, Gamma
Scum bucket: Dunnstral, Fire, Nosferatu, I guess Pisskop
Null bucket: Everybody else

Seriously, stop what you're doing and put a vote on one of Gamma/Sondam, even if you say nothing accompanying it. Right now.

[Prism]

ironstove (2): Fire Assassin, Prism

@Mod:

I'm voting Sondam.

---

Fixed.

[Prism]

@Mod:

I'm pretty sure pisskop is also voting Sondam

---

Something something woke up 6 minutes before doing that votecount something...
Fixed.

[Prism]

It's unfortunate that we're going to no lynch. If there was a wagon available for me to jump onto right now I would.

Sondam is at L-2 what the fuck are you talking about

[Prism]

The joys of a TvT lynch.

[Prism]

@Sickofit just wondering why you're still on me and not on pisskop or Gamma given your opposition to the Sondam lynch and the knowledge that I'm not getting 6 more votes in an hour.

[Prism]

Iron has also been on for like the past hour. Lol.

[Prism]

not on pisskop

[Prism]

I've just been skimming but that's L-1 for Nosferatu. I haven't read that much so I'm not eager to hammer it this early even though I scumread Nos pretty hard.

Before we get a hammer, I want to know who got Gamma's pinging spell.

I suggest Gamma use it on Ironstove to test his reflective shield claim. Gamma doesn't have a reflective shield, and he doesn't have his spell either.

[Prism]

I forgot beeboy took over, so there's a chance they missed that/why they should have done it, but regardless I want to know who has it, because if no one does it means it was used on Iron and Iron lied about their reflective shield claim. Testing this claim (and messing with ones like scry) are basically its only use so I don't think claiming it has much harm.

[Prism]

I received an ability called "alert" last night.

Is this the pinging ability Gamma described or something else?

[Prism]

Will have more thoughts over the weekend but for now I still FoS Aj. Ironstove was still playing to his wincon all game despite going off the deepend at the end, and that wincon apparently included lying about his spells.

[Prism]

Will have more thoughts over the weekend but for now I still FoS Aj. Ironstove was still playing to his wincon all game despite going off the deepend at the end, and that wincon apparently included lying about his spells.

That would be positing that Aj roleblocked Dunnstral using a spell, though, and caused a no kill as his partner. If you were going to do that wouldn't you go for roleblocking him and having another partner do the kill?

I mean, if he didn't roleblock him and instead no kill gambited, we'll see it with the flip, that's why I specifically asked if it was a spell or an ability. It's too easy a lie to be caught out on.

~Ruko

Good point, unlikely partner in any case.

My heart really hasn't been in this game and I think it shows, I'll try and do something about it after Wednesday or so when I have more free time, otherwise I might replace out if I still can't get my head in the game.

[Prism]

Also I want my towncred for calling Dunnstral Day 1 while everyone called him town and lynched my two townreads, I sucked and scumread Nos too and picked wrong in the 50/50 but I'm taking my chance to say I told you so.

[Prism]

I'm going to be pretty sparse the next few days so just a heads up.

My first impression of the past few pages is I wouldn't mind lynching Dreamerz after Dunnstral.

[Prism]

Hi all, guess who finally has time for this game now that their other one is finished? More to come in the next 2 days.

In the meantime I still want dreamerz because their last day was fake as fuck and that FA kill was awful.

Quick note now that I can talk about this: Gamma was replaced for implying I was scum in my other game that was ongoing twice. I thought he was bullshitting his RVS read on me because I said in that game that I loved RVS, before realizing that he knew I was scum in that game. When I realized he wasn't bullshitting I figured he was probably town and that was the reason for my readchange.

[Prism]

so Prism is town.

How did you come to that conclusion? It's obvious we didn't know we were on the same team, but that doesn't say anything unless Gamma flipped scum, and he's since flipped town.

[Prism]

I just realized I'm not voting and I have two homies also voting dreamerz.

VOTE: dreamerz

[Prism]

Can someone explain #2116 coming from a townsperson to me?

[Prism]

Prism looked bad with my VCA but I suspect that might be wrong because Fire came to different conclusions from it.

I want to know what vote count analysis you're using where me being the only person on scum all fucking day is looking bad.

[Prism]

Like, if you want to pull out the "How did Prism get Dunnstral? Must be inside info" bullshit you can but there is 0 chance you look at that VC progression and think to yourself "Oh yeah, Prism's voting record is terrible."

[Prism]

i don't think you're lying about your thoughts on Gamma, and scum don't usually have those kinds of revelations against town players. like the example you gave, 'so and so was bullshitting'. if you're scum and know someone is town, you don't come to the conclusion that they might be lying/making things up in your analysis, usually.

This is really bad and I'm down to vote Chara as an alternative to drealm.

[Prism]

You're talking about where you were on Dunnstral after his wagon fell apart and other wagons were looking likely to head through to a lynch? That's kind of the basis of my FoS along with the distance from him on the final Sondam wagon. You haven't read up?

Oh right, the RVS wagon, the one

practically guaranteed

to never go through. That's where I should have gone for the town credit. My mistake.

I literally spent all of Day 1 begging to go on Dunnstral after I smelled blood when he defended me like that. I literally spent all of Day 1 begging town not to lynch my top 2 townreads until I was forced to vote one of them by way of the deadline.

Edit: Fixed quote tag.

[Prism]

@Nahdia

: Mind fixing the quote there?

Also my #2133 isn't really fair after thinking more about it, so I'll wind it back for now, my second choice would probably be Aj and third choice Chara rather than second choice Chara.

[Prism]

I'm pulling a 180 because I'm a casual anarchist, and because Aj just got me to reread Dunntsral. Not sold on drealm town but it's more likely than BTD6 I agree.

VOTE: BTD6

[Prism]

I'm going to try and do an actual writeup of my thoughts on the game after I get back in a few hours, because I know my thought process hasn't exactly been clear (largely because it's been all over the place/my reads have been very whimsical)

Drealm still sounds scummy but I'm really doubting the vote at this point and would prefer to either go on BTD6 or at least hold off on voting drealm until I can organize my thoughts.

[Prism]

Pk does a decent job with his tone meaning I'd have to ISO him to get anything meaningful out of it. From what I've seen of interactions with Dunnstral, and you know the knowledge that Dunnstral cursed him, I vote no for now.

My second vote right now would be Not Chara. Reading the interactions with Dunnstral they're largely unconvincing, ex. Dunnstral hopping on NC for voting them for Dunn's #263 but not me. Other interactions are either nonexistent or look slightly worse.

"Arcane Theft", the ultimate neutral or light-sided magic spell. I buy the Arcane Theft, I don't buy that they're town. This might actually move to a first vote. Assuming I'm interpreting it right the spell pairs

perfectly

with Invade.

Yeah sure, first vote.

VOTE: Not Chara

I didn't get around to posting last night and I'm between flights now but the last ~10 pages are a complete mess that takes some serious translation effort without a Rosetta Stone.

[Prism]

@Prism that spell isn't indicative of anything, I wouldn't use it in trying to read NC, and if you think NC is scum then the only logical conclusion is it's scum with drealmerz anyway.

[citation needed]

[Prism]

Like I don't suddenly have a big townread on Drealm but he's in the 3rd/4th slot in my mind right now together with you.

[Prism]

I'm not claiming my number of spells out because my scumread tells me to.

Wasn't that pisskop gave it to Dunn, but that Dunn gave it to pisskop. Scum wants it on a town not pingponging between scum. Pisskop being hard to toneread is

obvious as fuck

and I don't know what to tell you if you disagree with that other than that buying tone unconditionally loses games.

Half of me wants you to just do it to see if it passes to me so I can use it instead, but if you're town it's a complete waste.

[Prism]

Also it shouldn't be surprising that I think 10 pages of you/pisskop/drealm going back and forth about things that I didn't care about 90% of was a difficult read. I don't know why you would expect it to be fun and easy reading.

[Prism]

I'm going to go ahead an clarify that that snippet about pisskop a few posts back was being written as I read Dunnstral, pisskop was my top townread, almost 0 tone involved.

[Prism]

Pisskop both of those things are literally what I've just said in my last four posts.

I'm pretty disinterested so let's make this interesting. I'm modconfirmed town to BTD6, I got to pick a target with a spell called Call N1 that was a friendly neighbor spell. It disappeared permanently after two uses (so after he used it)

[Prism]

VOTE: BTD6 by the way

[Prism]

It tells the person their true alignment, so it works for scum too.

[Prism]

i'm not sure i understand. you use it on someone and it tells you their alignment, and you received it from BTD on.. which night?

You use it on someone and it tells them your alignment. I used it on BTD6 N1.

Didn't want to mention the hood because it reveals I currently have it, hood last through the day. I got nothing, and I got no ability N2 that would interfere, and BTD6 claims the same. I am inclined to believe he is lying rather than that scum used a dark magic redirect on one of us.

Wasn't a roleblock because it disappears with uses so BTD6 would still have had it N3.

@havingfitz:

Wondering why your catchup didn't include the numerous other interactions between myself & Dunnstral & others, and why the first one listed already assumes I am mafia. In particular I didn't bother explaining my read to him because I was sure he was scum, and made repeated calls to people to reconsider him and give me reasoning to refute. Also, Gamma scumread me entirely because I said I liked RQS in a game that was ongoing. I flipped my read when I connected the dots that he knew I was scum in that game. This was the reason behind his force replace.

[Prism]

That second paragraph I need to clarify the topic, sorry I've been phone posting so I haven't done much revision.

BTD claims to have used Call on me N2, but I got nothing. It is also suboptimal to use it on me to begin with, as you want to form a 3 person chain. Scum is forced to claim either what he is now, to have sent it to the dead (Nobody died N2), or to their scum partner. I find it more likely he is lying than that black magic interfered with its delivery.

[Prism]

Guys, Call is not rocket science or a Rube Goldberg mechanism.

Call was a spell where you selected someone, and the moderator told them your alignment. This is all it did.

It transferred normally but disappeared permanently after two uses, so my use+BTD6's means it left the game.

I selected BTD6 N1, he claims to have gotten it. BTD6 selected me N2, I did not get it. The hood spell is entirely different and was given to me by BTD6 last night.

[Prism]

It was a 90+ page catchup. I couldn't talk about everything and your interactions with Dunnstral did not sway me to think you were town. And Gamma getting replaced out has nothing to do with your alignment afaict.

My response about Gamma was just an explanation of his read-and speaking of which, nothing about what he described matches a "similar vibe" whatsoever.

Also, just as a sidenote, I can't get people to realize their Dunnstral townreads are wrong when literally 0 people answered my question for why they thought Dunnstral was town. I also defended Sondam a lot more than just a casual one liner.

[Prism]

Anyway can someone, anyone, please make this game more interesting? I'm trying but I can't really do it alone here. No town is obvious to me right now besides maybe Pisskop and half of what people are posting could be replaced by just quotes of past ones. We used Arcane Theft on the person that Dunnstral cursed over someone who might have actually had the doctor ability like Batoru or Aj. I was obviously wrong about NC's spell being dark magic but I don't really think they're town for it either.

BTD6's claim to have been redirected is backed up by HF's claim of having been redirected N1. I still need to reread drealm and Batoru as they're two of my top 4 at the moment.

[Prism]

Rereading Dunnstral for like a 4th time my impressions today were, in order of confidence: NC town, AJ town, pisskop kind of town, Wisdom (HF) kind of town. NC drops out of top 4.

I'm down to really just lynch any of drealmz/BTD6/Batoru at this point, Batoru has axemurdered the early townread I had on them.

[Prism]

And yes, before you point it out, I realize I called NC's interactions with Dunnstral unconvincing before, but I changed my mind.

[Prism]

OMGUS against the guy who has me modconfirmed town, you've got me.

[Prism]

No answer Dunn gave was going to be satisfactory, because that defense of me made literally 0 sense as town.

[Prism]

I'm going to throw my vote back onto Drealm for now.

This is L-1.

VOTE: Drealm

[Prism]

Actually given the past 20-30 pages I don't think it's a good idea to risk that vote until I'm sure that's scum.

UNVOTE:

What will Prism do next? Not even they know at this point.

[Prism]

Aight I'm doing my every other day reread now then probably putting my last vote of the day. Chances are it's not going to be on drealm considering the loved spell+my opinion that there's at least one scum on them.

[Prism]

Sorry I got distracted yesterday, in the interest of not having a repeat of Day 1 I'll try to finish by the end of the day.

@Not Chara:

Do you realize if you successfully get drealm lynched without me on it then it's a guaranteed mislynch? What the fuck are you trying to do?

I can't wait for someone to suggest that I'm scum with drealm despite that being literally impossible to anyone paying attention.

[Prism]

what?

Ok I need to ask whether you guys know what loved means. It means you take one extra vote to be lynched. NC legit can't hammer without you being on there.

You didn't read my statement if you're asking this question. Here it is again:

Do you realize if you successfully get drealm lynched without me on it then it's a guaranteed mislynch?

[Prism]

that said, can you explain it to me? i don't see why it's impossible for a buddy of dreal's to be bussing him, and working through this sort of logic in my head isn't a strong suite.

Keep in mind it takes 6 votes (with 6 town alive) to lynch Drealm. There's not really any reason to bus Drealm if I'm not willing to lynch them. No townsperson will be left off on it except me, and I already can't be scum with Drealm. (As I can only be scum with BTD6)

Bussing Drealm here as scum without me being willing to lynch him is legitimately stupid.

[Prism]

From the latest vote count. There are 2 scum remaining. What this means is we need 6/8 (ie all remaining townies) to vote drealmerz for his lynch to go through, or scum to know it's not going through because he's loved so they sit there to soft bus, in which case we still need 5/6 remaining townies to hop on and see who hops off or force the partner to hard bus.

Oh jeez you even explained my statement immediately afterward.

[Prism]

Alright I've read and read and read until my head hurts, all to no avail. I think this lynch is a coinflip. I kind of just want to get nightkilled and move along with my life.

VOTE: Drealmerz

[Prism]

Whoever left me alive is going to have hell to pay.

[Prism]

99% sure Batoru is scum, leaning pisskop/BTD6 for last but unsure right now, will get back to you later since I didn't expect to live because I've been disinterested in this game since the end of Day 1. No longer.

Whoever made that call, I will make sure you will never, ever make that mistake again. I will bring the fury. You will never play another game with me where you dare not nightkill me N1.

Be patient, you're in the calm before the storm. I'll get back to you in two days, and then I will make you regret ever signing up for this game. Enjoy it while you can.

[Prism]

Your scum PT is about to become Sodom and Gomorrah, I will rain such hellfire down upon it that it will forever become uninhabitable and this game will become your greatest shame. Mark your calendars, replace out if you can, post as much as you can while you can, because you have no idea what unspeakable strength of force you have just brought down to bear upon yourself. This is my personal promise to you that by the end of this game, no matter how far you go, no matter how many more games you scrounge up the courage to play after this one if you manage, no matter how many years pass, you will never again feel safe even

thinking

of playing mafia.

By the time I am finished with you you will check in your closet, underneath your bed, behind the shower curtain, every corner of your house before you go to sleep out of fear that I will be there. You will wake up every day in a bed covered in your own shit, having had yet another nightmare of the horrors that are about to descend upon you here in this game. I hope you have extra sheets.

[Prism]

I want to know who blocked Aj N1.

[Prism]

has a game losing read as town

VOTE: sondam

VOTE: Mega Frozen

VOTE: Gamma

VOTE: Nos

Almost missed this one so my apologies, coming in at Nos being L-1:

VOTE: Dunnstral

VOTE: drealmerz

VOTE: No Lynch :/

My apologies for not being able to match your stellar voting record.

[Prism]

I see no reason to NL. It leads to an Aj death (which should have happened last night if not me), followed by me if the game isn't over. I'd rather play it out. Expect a lot of posting tomorrow as my schedule frees up significantly and I've got a promise to fulfill.

@-Grey-:

Basically all of Day 1 is useless minus ISOing Dunnstral. I agree about the Dunnstral interactions with Iron, and in particular it looked like Dunnstral knew intuitively that such a spell wasn't in play and was out to grill him for it. As scum with iron I imagine him being more open to the possibility. Aj roleblocking Dunnstral, especially if he started with it, makes him by far the most likely town in my view.

In response to my bad post, I explain it later but didn't make it more explicit. In a game that was ongoing at the time with Gamma dead, I expressed my appreciation of RVS, and Gamma even took note of it in that game. I didn't know of the existence of a dead thread and didn't realize that Gamma knew I was scum in that game, this led me to think he was just bullshitting. However, as the original game was ongoing, I couldn't directly explain why I thought he was lying. When I realized he knew, it made a lot more sense and combined with his stream of consciousness posts later Day 1 made me townread him. These mentions did however lead to him getting forcereplaced by Nahdia.

[Prism]

Actually I take that back Day 1 might feel useless minus the interactions with Dunnstral but it's probably the only day filled with actual content in the whole damn game, so scratch that and really focus on it.

[Prism]

Oh wait this is Batoru's slot not the hf/Sickofit slot who cares.

[Prism]

All right, starting my reread now. Somebody else start posting/going over past stuff with me so it's not me posting 10 times in a row here.

[Prism]

Proddodging because it's New Years, I'm about halfway through my reread. My top scumread so far through it is pisskop over Batoru/Grey. Whatever I think by the end I'll try and put together a summary of why.

[Prism]

I do NOT want LYLO here if I can help it. At this point, I'm thinking Wisdom/Fitz slot + BTD6. Wisdom's posts D1 were.... off base and wrong. While Wisdom can be argumentative, I don't think he ends up that wrong as town.

Needless to say, all three scum are in BTD6 (conf) and Batoru/Grey or Fitz/Sick/Wisdom slot.

Also, note that Dunn passes off a negative utility role to Pisskop before going down, without realizing he's about to get caught. This indicates a push from Dunn next day was supposed to go to Pisskop. I don't think scum let scum!Pisskop hold a piece that makes him even easier to die with.

I disagree really strongly with this. Pisskop town was my first instinct from looking at Dunn giving him the Wayward Curse but after rereading I no longer think that's true. I really disliked pisskop's Day 1 and will go into detail later, for now I'm just stopping in (Sorry for the perpetual delays but yes, New Years, yes, 100+ pages to read, yes, I still have work). My impression is also that the Sickofit/Wisdom slot is town.

My thinking is that it's 2/3 of Pisskop/Batoru/BTD6, with the last two being mainly what I'm trying to figure out now.

[Prism]

I'm going to take partial blame for this because I wasn't as active as I needed to be, but this was still so fucking stupid.

[Prism]

Well I broke my promise despite basically being 2/2, I was 80/20 for BTD6 town. This is what I get when I make an activity promise around New Years.

[Prism]

I'll take it back I take almost full credit for that because for one I wasn't active nearly enough, I wasn't forthcoming with my reads nor did I make a big attempt to assert their validity to hf/Aj who I knew were both town, and finally I was just a lazy fuck all game-I was almost 100% Batoru was scum Day 3 (though I walked it back slightly during the reread) but I voted drealm anyway. I fucked us over pretty hard, so my apologies.

[Prism]

The vote was completely safe. There was 0 downside.

BTD6 really didn't have to die, and I was going to argue strongly against it. I recognize I did a poor job communicating but I'm more upset that we voted him with 8 days to the deadline with him yet to post all day.

[Prism]

Reading the thread was like trudging through ankle deep sand (not your fault, Nahdia)

Oh yeah it was horrible, I literally claimed Day 4 just so I could get nightkilled.

[Prism]

Like you poked the bear but the bear was lazy and saw 8 days left on a deadline and went back to sleep.

[Prism]

My biggest mistakes in order were:

1. Not lynching Dunnstral for not claiming his guilty in the first post and just fishing Nos out
2. Letting you get lynched despite scumreading Batoru, I just decided to be lazy and hope I was wrong instead of actually put in the effort. I let the whole team down.
3. Basically thinking I had more time than I did the last day and letting scum have their way

[Prism]

I honestly thought the way you were fishing for who caught you before you claimed it would be noticed, but I guess it's one of those things that's way more obvious from an overhead perspective. Well played.

Whenever I reread I actually let out a huge groan at my monitor because I thought he had outed it instantly. I figured pointing it out on Day 5 would be counterproductive.

[Prism]

My rage was hilarious.

"READY OR NOT, HERE I COME, I'M COMING FOR YOU, BETTER BE READY PISSKOP AND BATORU, BECAUSE I'VE GOT YOUR ASSES, I KNOW WHERE YOU LIVE AND IT'S SCUM CITY

...but it's New Years! Haha okay you kids run along now I'll come out and play in a bit"

I roll over and Pisskop/Grey shrug their shoulders and steal all the cookies from the cookie jar and make off like bandits.

[Prism]

Nahdia, can you link the dead thread?