Newbie 1769: Happy New Year! (Post-Game)

[cassielle]

also re: 578 it ignores the possibility of scumhunting which is a valid reason to vote someone who isnt your top scumread (see e.g. my current vote)

[cassielle]

actually on further consideration #578 is fake as hell because dude THERE IS A FULL WEEK LEFT do you really want people to just hammer a lynch home at the middle of the day phase no matter how convinced they are that youre the central scum? WHY NOT yknow use the rest of the day to rule out your other scumreads, have a solid townblock and gamesolve so you can end with a town win d2? S C U M

[cassielle]

ftr im waiting on people. schadd_ and creature are online that i can see and id really like to hear from them asap because rn im just sitting on my hands so the focus is where i think it should be (i.e. grey)

[-Grey-]

534: FIRST post worth commenting on??? commenting on MBG's list at 239, not saying a word about those weird ass claims and such prior? arguably this is NAI leaning town but im suspicious af about there being nothing to comment on from 135 to 160-ish just for example. #535 still leaning on MBG but it is valid and in order here.

Your primary objection in block of text seems to be that I didn't comment on content within the first nine pages, which I had already stated that I read before actually getting my role pm. Add to that the fact I believe the beginning of d1 is bullshit in general for all games.

538: contentless expression of confusion at one of rask's lists. #

HE LISTED HIMSELF AS LYNCHABLE YOU FUCKING CLOWN
--

I'm going to have to break my responses up because my phone is choking on the wall which is one reason I hate them.

[cassielle]

first bit: like i said, NAI leaning town for the reasons you stated.

second bit: i talked about that, but you didnt expand on it at all and so i mean contentless? yeah. also thats a serious overreaction to something im not making much of a judgement call on. i really want to see how you react as we near the really questionable stuff

and yeah take your time. apologies for the wall i just expected it to be used from a pc -- my masterpost in one tab, player ISO in the other, make it easy to get a general overview of what im seeing p much exactly how i saw it ha

[-Grey-]

539 is vaguely towny. leans on mbg for more info. can someone tell me what they think about the info hes pressing for here? is there even a point to asking that in that post?

Reads that match the popular consensus are scummy. It's not rocket surgery why I'd pressure that.

You notice that "kumbaya" atmosphere is gone? That's called progress because it means people have to justify their reads instead of "ommm this person is town because sheep ommm"

[-Grey-]

#544 is contentless expression of dislike toward SOMETHING to do with creature. what? who knows!

I totally disliked what Creature posted because it was stupid of him to post.

Unless you think I'm pushing him as scum for what I disliked (hint: I'm not, which you could tell if you were paying as much attention to my posts as you are claiming), I don't see why you would want me to expand on that.

[cassielle]

ofc and thats why myself and gbT are happy and why i started to panic after rask's claim -- scumhunting was def looking difficult there again for a second because i was seeing the townblock solidifying again against the lurkiest players. thats not good play.

that doesnt mean that you immediately dismiss mbg's "things have changed" and ask for a new answer esp when you arent caught up yet -- because i mean 526. youd be able to see hed started justifying his reads anyhow. and when everyone scum or town is parroting gbT at the point you were criticizing mbg for, its hard to say that he in particular deserves that focus there.

i will say the presentation feels a bit questionable, sure, creature noticed it and i did too, but from start to finish his playstyle has been exactly that.

have you checked anyones ISO yet? honest question, based on a feelingthat half of this would jump out and scream at you in ISOs and youre missing the trees for the forest so to speak here. thats one town-reason to have this approach atm.

p-edit: im not. youre just casting shade there and i dont have any clue what you were talking about because you didnt link a damn thing and i havent seen anything questionable from his direction to begin with (or id doublecheck that conftown status the hard way -- its not like i have pure trust in possible scum here come on)

[-Grey-]

#547 is vaguely scummy imo -- expresses disgust with mbg pulling vote off player to be replaced who had prior contributed literally almost nothing. its giving the newcomer a fair chance to make their name lol, that is the correct motorcycle when lurkers replace out (obv diff players are a diff story)

Resetting a read on someone simply because they replace out is bad.

Clean slates are the worst possible thing to do.

There's a reason that if a player is being run up and then needs to be replaced, most of the time,

the town lynches the slot

.
They're not gonna bother with the shit a replacement will give, since the replacement won't do anything to change people's minds.

I absolutely agree with this.

Are you starting to feel stupid with your bullshit push yet?

[cassielle]

resetting a read on someone who CONTRIBUTED NOTHING is fair, because if your read is based on activity alone (and it had to be, i mean rakkar gave absolutely nothing to work with) then replacement changes literally everything about the read by default! you have to start from null there because from the get go your entire original reason has to fail to be the case for the new player lol

its like, lets say you have a reason to believe some alt was made SPECIFICALLY to be a scum slot in some game based on the avatar or username or something, and then they replace out. if that is literally your only reason for believing that, it absolutely fails to hold when replacement time comes and you /need/ to start fresh or youre making spurious scumreads

[-Grey-]

#548 is defensive of GAYreen.

I defended nothing, I pointed out hypocrisy

and Matt admitted to it

.

That's just blatant misrep.

[cassielle]

ok, thats fair.

[-Grey-]

#552 seems to be a scumslip? town can easily see the paranoia that would lead to #431, no one else questioned it, even mbg seemed to take it in stride, treat it as fair.

This is garbage, because building reads around timestamps is stupid. You don't know wtf is going on in meatworld that affects posting times, and it's not like everybody has nothing to do but sit around and post.

[cassielle]

town gets paranoid, scum doesnt. town doesnt know anything, not even how much they dont know. scum knows everything, including exactly how much they dont know. 431 is indicative of a town mindset and, silly as it is, will end up shot down p quickly by town anyway.

that said, a reread says ok, sure, fair. im still going to say the concern was valid, EVEN IF silly, ridiculous, pointless.

[-Grey-]

#554 seems to also imply scumminess -- scum skim, town deep-reads. on a skim my list there is bad. the shallowest of deep-reads reveals i imply that is to be expected. context in thread also does.

I was rushing to catch up with the thread and throwing out comments as I had them.

Feel free to metadive me to confirm, that's how I always catch up.

Hell, post a single game where I'm "deep reading" as either alignment and I'll vote myself.

[-Grey-]

#568 reads as completely unaware of the thread. rakkar DID NOT POST. even just clicking the activity overview will tell you exactly what changed there lol. this is a clear scumslip from where im standing.

Holy shit, a guy that is trying to take in a couple dozen pages of information all at once missed something?

UNLEASH THE HOUNDS OF WAR!

[cassielle]

i dont really buy meta arguments USUALLY (outside of very hard, near infallible town/scumread meta like creature), so im going to say no, that doesnt matter here, it still feels like a scum mindset to me. at best its NAI which the stuff after it will make irrelevant -- it was one tiny piece of stone in a p big wall, so im comfortable leaving it just sit out there without trying to offer a counter to your counter argument, just like the l-1 thing for rask and the WIFOM-awareness for schadd_

p-edit: and idk how you could have possibly missed that rakkar was all but 100% completely and totally inactive but w/e, im gonna just leave that sitting next to the above because i dont buy missing it but dont have a good counterargument

[-Grey-]

#570 i can practically hear "target locked." thats a bit of hindsight but jfc

See this is just bullshit shade throwing that falls apart when you actually follow the link you're referring to, and that's why I wanted those posts linked.

VOTE: Casserole

Rask thought I was likely scum with two different people. If was a genuine read, Why would he want to push either of those two over me when lynching me is objectively more likely to hit scum?

It didn't make sense, and this right here just shows that you're throwing shit against the wall and hoping people don't actually pay attention.

[cassielle]

nope. i back this up in my commentary on 578 including 700 and 701

[cassielle]

im glad we had this little q&a tho because im p sure no one is gonna let you out of this now lol

[-Grey-]

#571 dismisses a valid line of reasoning. in fact, a line of reasoning used by mbg and accepted by grey at that point as well! see #541

Cass replaced rakkar.

Yeah, right.

Enough said.

How do you treat replacements -grey- ?

I don't give them a clean slate, if that's what you're asking.

That said, I read Cass as town anyway.

I was agreeing with your post, if you couldn't tell.

[/size]

Who's the one skimming now, Casserole? But it's town if you do it right?

More bullshit misrep.

[-Grey-]

#571 dismisses a valid line of reasoning. in fact, a line of reasoning used by mbg and accepted by grey at that point as well! see #541

Cass replaced rakkar.

Yeah, right.

Enough said.

How do you treat replacements -grey- ?

I don't give them a clean slate, if that's what you're asking.

That said, I read Cass as town anyway.

I was agreeing with your post, if you couldn't tell.

[/size]

Who's the one skimming now, Casserole? But it's town if you do it right?

More bullshit misrep.

[-Grey-]

#578 is CONVINCING REASONING. the speed at which it came out of fuckin nowhere was not. i recall feeling this way when i first saw it, but i was (and to a slightly reduced degree, am!) so convinced of rask flipping red that i just sat on it (see my feelings on mbg as poss. scumteam member in #604)

Good post. MUST BE SCUM!

[cassielle]

the problem with 576 (and thanks for that, thats the strongest townread ive had on you since examining and its still p weak) is that its an easy dismissal. its like "oh i was just joking" or "i wasnt trying to push for a claim" and so forth. the post-event backing-up is NAI because both town and scum would want to do it. and while it might change the original event to NAI too, if that single post is the ENTIRE BASIS of your read it was damned weak anyway

keeping that in mind, i re-read 571 on that basis and still didnt see it. it projects sarcasm in the extreme, and thats strongly your style, every post filled with snark. why would i give that post the benefit of the doubt and call it genuine when most of your tone is cynical sarcastic snark? thats one post out of ~40. im not going to extend that benefit of the doubt in that ONE case, esp when you vote that same person almost immediately after saying you agreed with their post

p-edit: see above. you go from 576 to 578 at the drop of a hat, that doesnt add up to me. also i examined the reasoning in 700 and 701 and it fell apart. surface-level convincing. i admit i probably should have sat on that one a bit longer before i posted the masterpost.

[cassielle]

EBWOP: strongest townread referring to 721 (and its weak, yeah)