Mini Normal 1873 (Game Over)

[mastina]

Tenth Votecount

:

karnos - 4 (Garmr, XnadrojX, BlueBloodedToffee, TheRealGin-N-Tonic)

All Alone - 2 (Lexa, Alisae)

XnadrojX - 1 (karnos)
Alisae - 1 (shannon)
Garmr - 1 (KTthecreeper)
shannon - 1 (LicketyQuickety)
LicketyQuickety - 1 (PranaDevil)
Pepchoninga - 1 (TheRealGin-N-Tonic)

Not Voting - 2 (Pepchoninga, All Alone)

With

13

alive, it takes

7

to lynch.

karnos is at L-3.

Day 1's deadline is Friday, February 10th, @ 2:30 PM PST--(expired on 2017-02-10 14:30:00).

V/LA Notices/Mod Notes:

• mastina, the moderator, is V/LA over weekends.
  
• Lexa is V/LA through Tuesday, January 24th.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Obviously All Alone isn't rubbing me the right way. You are actually giving me odd vibes, on the surface you seem extremely towny but I'm catching hints of asking a lot of questions and pushing activity without especially contributing new information yourself which is an effective strategy where I play.

What you say is true, I haven't really done hard pushes but that's mainly because I've been trying to sort out the Karnos/LQ/Jordan debates; I think it's evident in the posting that I'm making sure I understand every players arguments before I make my conclusion and move on.

Yes, it can be seen as scummy to just ask for clarification and not actively push but the main issue I'm trying to resolve is that the Karnos/LQ/Jordan debates feel like they are causing chaos or dissonance and I want to establish order and clarity to either resolve the issue or find that we have our lynch of the day. With that being said, I think my actions so far are justified given how the current gamestate feels.


P-Edit: Mastina if you don't reply to any comments I made in my posts referring to you I'll cry.

<<< You're not very observant, are you? >>>

[mastina]

Kitteh.

Also up to date!

[LicketyQuickety]

Good news: computer back.
Bad news: have a kitten on me.
Makes work hard.

#FirstWorldProblems

<<< Have YOU tried to type out a votecount with a purring, kneading, suckling kitten rubbing against your skin?!? It's not as easy as you'd think! >>>

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

<<< Have YOU tried to type out a votecount with a purring, kneading, suckling kitten rubbing against your skin?!? It's not as easy as you'd think! >>>

Yes I have, t'is very easy

<<< Okay, then answer me this: how do

you

deal with the incessant schoolgirl giggling you do when she suddenly goes chin up and is tickling you? >>>

[LicketyQuickety]

Obviously All Alone isn't rubbing me the right way. You are actually giving me odd vibes, on the surface you seem extremely towny but I'm catching hints of asking a lot of questions and pushing activity without especially contributing new information yourself which is an effective strategy where I play.

What you say is true, I haven't really done hard pushes but that's mainly because I've been trying to sort out the Karnos/LQ/Jordan debates; I think it's evident in the posting that I'm making sure I understand every players arguments before I make my conclusion and move on.

Yes, it can be seen as scummy to just ask for clarification and not actively push but the main issue I'm trying to resolve is that the Karnos/LQ/Jordan debates feel like they are causing chaos or dissonance and I want to establish order and clarity to either resolve the issue or find that we have our lynch of the day. With that being said, I think my actions so far are justified given how the current gamestate feels.


P-Edit: Mastina if you don't reply to any comments I made in my posts referring to you I'll cry.

<<< You're not very observant, are you? >>>

Pro-Tip: I don't have nearly a 60% win rate because I am the best Scum hunter or have the best reads or get Town to follow me or even that I get Town read all the time. I have a 60% win rate as Town because I produce content, simple as that. When I am Town shit gets talked about. It took me a while to really understand that.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Don't worry about my content just yet. I'll become verbose the later the day goes on. I'm an unfortunately in a perpetual snowball effect loop no matter how much I try to not spam/push a lynch. So far I'm happy with my balance. As for now I'm going to sleep and will attempt sorting things out tomorrow or Tuesday depending on my day.

[LicketyQuickety]

Those voting Karnos, I want you to look at this game: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=66922

[XnadrojX]

He isn't "just" being g aggresive. He's picking up on and pushing things that scum normally dont bother with.

He was under the spotlight, getting attacked for an incrediblyy reachy case. These are the people likely to get a wagon on then first. There was a slight legitimate reason for you to lynch him, but it looked way more likely that you saw a wagon on LQ since he was currently under attack but with no votes on them. Here's some sense for you to interpret.

Doesn't anyone else see the contrast here? In two consecutive posts xnadrojx implies scum wouldn't push on something reachy, and then follows up by saying I'm likely scum because I pushed something reachy.

Er, what?

I never said Alisae pushes on something reachy. You're trying to defend yourself too hard

[Alisae]

Jordan you think LQ is defending Karnos a bit too hard?

[XnadrojX]

Kinda busy at the moment, might not post too frequently.

TheRealGin-N-Tonic is town.
Karnos is more scum.

From what I've seen I've been accused of "throwing a punch but holding back"
I'm clarifying again that nowhere I mentioned I scumread LQ, or suggested a lynch in him. I tore up his case, I see this as more of defending someone than attacking someone. Attacking someone would be what I'm doing to karnos now, speaking of which I see a bunch of nice posts by him to harden my scumread on.

[XnadrojX]

Jordan you think LQ is defending Karnos a bit too hard?

No

[Garmr]

Those voting Karnos, I want you to look at this game: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=66922

His behavior in that game is different from this one. How does this apply to this game.
In that game he displays none of the reasoning why people are scum reading him in this game.

Do you have a town read on karnos and why?

[LicketyQuickety]

Those voting Karnos, I want you to look at this game: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=66922

His behavior in that game is different from this one. How does this apply to this game.
In that game he displays none of the reasoning why people are scum reading him in this game.

Do you have a town read on karnos and why?

The style of posting is very very similar from that game to this one, that is what I notice.

Nope, I have a Null read on him.

[Garmr]

Those voting Karnos, I want you to look at this game: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=66922

His behavior in that game is different from this one. How does this apply to this game.
In that game he displays none of the reasoning why people are scum reading him in this game.

Do you have a town read on karnos and why?

The style of posting is very very similar from that game to this one, that is what I notice.

Nope, I have a Null read on him.

Style of posting is similar. It really isn't similar at all.

I never saw a defensive reaction in that game that was like 104. Like i don't think he omgus and accused anyone of a chainsaw. Also his votes didn't feel opportunistic in that game.

You seemed to miss that he supplied reasoning for his votes that game instead of hoping it would slip through the cracks.



In the end it's a totally different feel.

[PranaDevil]

Alisae, the shit posting was part of the reasoning, not all of it. You've also not answered why my post was a town post, I'd still like that answered.

All Alone doing absolutely sod all is bad. As in super terrible. All that has happened, and you turn up, unvote and nothing else? No. Do something. Definitely moved into the scum read territory.

LQ, you say your case on shannon is still ongoing. In all fairness unless someone is scum then their cases should always be ongoing and fluctuating. Otherwise you're playing the wrong game.

Not liking LQs pushing of Garmr over trivial stuff. It's not like Garmr has been solid in saying "Alisae will flip town". So pushing it makes no sense at this stage. If Garmr is actually scum, all you've done is make him be more careful. If you honestly thought it was a tell, you would have been better waiting for him to make a solud mistake. Thus it feels like it's forced, as though trying to get town reads away from Garmr.

I can sort of accept Lexa's reasoning, though a single vote is not pressure in any form, especially so early in day one. So a reaction test for AA there was a non starter. Will properly judge once she gets more active.

[Alisae]

Oh okay. It was within the wall that I skimmed so I probably didn't see it.

It seemed to be coming from town because to me it would seem like town would rather keep their vote where it is then drop pressure.

[shannon]

And I have no problems with Prana's case on me except one thing. I said now twice now my read on Shannon is ongoing. Its still fucking early and some people are going to take more time to read than others. Lexa not providing shit and then going on V/LA until Tuesday is an example of that. But besides that, because people have different styles that means that some people are going to be easier to read than others.

Yeah but isn't your read on everyone ongoing, all the time? Looks to me like you're trying to hedge your bets a bit, leaving the option open to lynch-me-or-not depending on where the popular current goes.

This is the thing I don't like about your play: You make a push, go at it hard, and then retreat to 'yeah but it's ongoing so IDK'. I'd prefer it if you'd just left that last part out and kept a scum read on me, if you think I'm scum. I'm actually becoming more convinced that *you* might be scum. In fact, have a vote.
VOTE: Lickety

Fine. I'll be patient and wait look a good child.

The condition for my posting reasoning for my vote on All Alone has now been fulfilled. That condition was All Alone posting so as to see possible reaction / lack thereof in response to my vote.

*snippy*

Posts from AA/Alisae have been my focus since game start, I'll likely wall post later in the week after I come off low activity and have been able to take some time to reread the thread and consider posts at more than face value.

I think you're probably flying very close to the wind by mentioning an ongoing game. Also, you voted in RVS, or very close to it, so why expect any kind of AI reaction from Alisae at that point, at all? It looks like you've been reasonably thorough (based on the part I snippied out) so I'm going to lightly town read you for that. Please don't wall post if you can help it. It's much easier to keep up with the game little bit by little bit, than to re-read a few days' worth at a time.

[shannon]

Ooh by the way I liked Prana's big wall post. Not so much its wallyness, but the fact that it exists and it seems thorough.

[LicketyQuickety]

Alisae, the shit posting was part of the reasoning, not all of it. You've also not answered why my post was a town post, I'd still like that answered.

All Alone doing absolutely sod all is bad. As in super terrible. All that has happened, and you turn up, unvote and nothing else? No. Do something. Definitely moved into the scum read territory.

LQ, you say your case on shannon is still ongoing. In all fairness unless someone is scum then their cases should always be ongoing and fluctuating. Otherwise you're playing the wrong game.

Not liking LQs pushing of Garmr over trivial stuff. It's not like Garmr has been solid in saying "Alisae will flip town". So pushing it makes no sense at this stage. If Garmr is actually scum, all you've done is make him be more careful. If you honestly thought it was a tell, you would have been better waiting for him to make a solud mistake. Thus it feels like it's forced, as though trying to get town reads away from Garmr.

I can sort of accept Lexa's reasoning, though a single vote is not pressure in any form, especially so early in day one. So a reaction test for AA there was a non starter. Will properly judge once she gets more active.

Couple things I have to clarify that you are getting wrong about me:

1) It is not my case on Shannon that is ongoing, but my read.
2) I am not pushing Garmr at all. Garmr is the one pushing me. I have him as Null currently. Though, TBH, I like to push people to uncomfortable positions to get a better read on their emotions because emotions don't lie. They can be faked, but they cannot lie.
a) I don't play the same as you or I don't play the way you expect me to play. You saying I

would've

done this or that is not the right way to read me; I do a lot of weird things in a game and am not all that consistent in what I do or how I do it. I am a very spontaneous player. The difference is that I have enough experience to be able to mold things better than when I started.

[LicketyQuickety]

And I have no problems with Prana's case on me except one thing. I said now twice now my read on Shannon is ongoing. Its still fucking early and some people are going to take more time to read than others. Lexa not providing shit and then going on V/LA until Tuesday is an example of that. But besides that, because people have different styles that means that some people are going to be easier to read than others.

Yeah but isn't your read on everyone ongoing, all the time? Looks to me like you're trying to hedge your bets a bit, leaving the option open to lynch-me-or-not depending on where the popular current goes.

This is the thing I don't like about your play: You make a push, go at it hard, and then retreat to 'yeah but it's ongoing so IDK'. I'd prefer it if you'd just left that last part out and kept a scum read on me, if you think I'm scum. I'm actually becoming more convinced that *you* might be scum. In fact, have a vote.
VOTE: Lickety

The thing you are not aware of is that I often (as both alignments) lock people out as a Town read from my perspective. My ability to find Town has saved a few games in my time. Generally at the beginning of a game and into the middle sometimes all I am trying to do is get Town reads. When I play this way, I don't always have strong Scum reads until later in the game (after a few game days have passed). I can link you a very recent game where I did this. Yes there were some Scum reads thrown in there, but primarily (especially toward the end) I was really trying to zero in on my town reads. I can think of 3 games from 3 different sites where I had an outstanding performance because I got my Town reads correct. Also, I DO actually get pretty sure of my reads as the game progresses sometimes and I am right more often than I am wrong. These reads only change if I view the slot from a different perspective. So the idea that I am "always looking to change my reads" is kinda a shiny argument to say "look here! He is saying his read is ongoing, but it always should be. He must be Scum." This type of thinking reminds me of what my Judo instructor told me are like gremlins that are basically bad habits that people can't get away from. Its a form of confbias because it takes away the outlook that NOT all reads are always open for debate. Sometime you are just sure that someone is Town or Scum. I am getting close to that kind of read on Alisae already in the game. So if Alisae turns out to be Town, then it will be clear that the kind of Scum hunting I have done on them is in fact valid. I am putting pressure on you, Shannon, using easy to make arguments without really looking to far into things to see how you react. So far I have not seen an overwhelming Town presents from you. Your arguments don't seem to be overtly Town motivated. You are arguing with neither a clear and calm head making logical deduction, nor arguments based on spirited energy fulling your conviction. either of these types of responses I expect to be made as Town. Clear and cool headed shows you don't feel threatened and are secure in your position. Fiery arguments are based on passion with is really hard to fake as Scum. That is why I have not taken my vote off you yet.

IIRC, you are saying a reason why you are Scum reading me (and the reason associated with your vote) is that I push people and should not say I am not sure of their alignment? This seems like some weak sauce reasoning to me. It isn't even a week into day one and people are expecting me to commit on reads already and if I don't people are using that as ammo to say I am back tracking? That is seriously fucked up!

[PranaDevil]

1) Same difference really.

2) you're the one suggesting he "knows" Alisae is town, and then pushed it.

3) I'll give you that, though I'll also point out it doesn't change that regardless of play style, if it seems there's scum motivation for doing what you're doing, it will look scummy. Thus a terrible job of making it seem like Garmr knows Alisae is town, without catching a slip, just seems like scum attempting to get peoples reads of Garmr changed.

Also, I said the same as Shannon regarding ongoing reads, got a totally different response... Doesn't seem genuine really. Like, I get a pass, shannon gets pressure? Hmmm...

[LicketyQuickety]

1) Same difference really.

2) you're the one suggesting he "knows" Alisae is town, and then pushed it.

3) I'll give you that, though I'll also point out it doesn't change that regardless of play style, if it seems there's scum motivation for doing what you're doing, it will look scummy. Thus a terrible job of making it seem like Garmr knows Alisae is town, without catching a slip, just seems like scum attempting to get peoples reads of Garmr changed.

Also, I said the same as Shannon regarding ongoing reads, got a totally different response... Doesn't seem genuine really. Like, I get a pass, shannon gets pressure? Hmmm...

1) Its not the same thing and if you don't see that, then you are prolly not a very good Scum hunter.
2) Do you know how that argument started? I'll tell you. It started by me ASKING ALISAE IF THEY COULD SEE THAT ANGLE. I made no accusation that that is what I actually thought. I have defended the point since but only on principle that that is a very real argument that I have seen many times. If I give up the point I am just going to get even more Scum read. So I make my argument.
3) If I say my read on them is Scum, then you know I prolly actually think they are Scum.

[LicketyQuickety]

Those voting Karnos, I want you to look at this game: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=66922

His behavior in that game is different from this one. How does this apply to this game.
In that game he displays none of the reasoning why people are scum reading him in this game.

Do you have a town read on karnos and why?

The style of posting is very very similar from that game to this one, that is what I notice.

Nope, I have a Null read on him.

Style of posting is similar. It really isn't similar at all.

I never saw a defensive reaction in that game that was like 104. Like i don't think he omgus and accused anyone of a chainsaw. Also his votes didn't feel opportunistic in that game.

You seemed to miss that he supplied reasoning for his votes that game instead of hoping it would slip through the cracks.



In the end it's a totally different feel.

It is similar. Look at the way he quotes people and then gives a response. The FORMAT of the posts is very very close here.

[LicketyQuickety]

LQ definite town due to not paying enough attention to who's in the game to even direct a vote correctly? Sounds like a plan to me.

vote: Alisae

for reasons. (Hint, they aren't good reasons)

I'm being bullied and I would like to know the reasons ;~;

@Alisae what are the reasons?

Ugh sorry, that was a typing fail.

@PranaDevil - - reasons??

This is actually Scummy I think. There use to be a tell out there that Scum misspell stuff or don't say stuff correctly. I also find it Scummy that they are asking for reasons. Should be clear it is RVS and I don't buy that its an attempt to push the game forward so either they are not very good Town or obvious Scum.

VOTE: shannon

I asked for reasons knowing not to take them seriously as well. Does that make me scum?
How do you know they were going to take the reasons seriously?
And why can't they ask for reasons if they are town?
What makes you think they are attempting to push the game forward.
How do you know you aren't taking their post the wrong way?

1) That isn't all you did though.
2) Can you tell me they were not going to? Why would you think that? I see more reason to believe they would than they wouldn't; its the simplest explanation, Occam's Razor.
3) They can, but tbh it looks like a really weird place to ask that. Again, that is all shannon has done. Its a really simple question to ask. The trick is finding out if it is out of place or not and I think it is.
4) I think its a fake way to

look

like you are trying to push the game forward.
5) I could be. Its not a solid read at all. It is, however, an actual starting point out of RVS.

I asked what the reasons were because the poster said they had reasons and they

weren't good

. Whether or not I took them seriously would depend on what the reasons were, or whether the poster backtracked (i.e. said that there were no reasons, they were just talking shit or reaction testing or whatever).

Whether my post was forward-pushing, fake forward-pushing, or just making conversation, your reaction to it has been provocative. So yay for that.

Clearly this is almost a Newbie game if people have this kind of thing to say about my analysis.

You know you should of waited before trying to push her right. Asking questions can be protown or a scum tell depending on what they do with the answer. So instead of waiting to see what she does with it you pretty much spoiled anyway of telling if she is scum or not

This is a good point.

Also worth noting that the answer itself is now compromised by all the discussion around my question-asking.

If Prana said they didn't actually have reasons (which looks to be apparent cuz those "reasons" never got discussed) what would you have thought?