Open 670: Near Vanilla (Over)

[Lowell]

@nebula, stop nagging me. my reads are infallible. Except in cases when they fail. Which never happens. Check my meta, I've never been wrong. Only you have, if you check my meta and find me being wrong. That's wrong.

Lil is gut. He's too safe. Sesq reads like he wants to coast and pretend to look helpful. I forget who else you asked about.

[nebula]

@nebula, stop nagging me. my reads are infallible. Except in cases when they fail. Which never happens. Check my meta, I've never been wrong. Only you have, if you check my meta and find me being wrong. That's wrong.

Lil is gut. He's too safe. Sesq reads like he wants to coast and pretend to look helpful. I forget who else you asked about.

Hi, Lowell. I asked also about Toto and Riley being town.

I appreciate the humor.

[Music Box]

@Musicbox. So you'd rather I just sheep the wagon vote when literally 4 people had commented yet? (It was just me, BBT, Lowell who hasn't said anything since, and Magna) I mean sure watching how everyone else played around that wagon would have been interesting but I just chose to spread the votes instead.

And what did you gain from that?

41 and 47 look like town to me. I think he is genuinely trying to figure nebula out, and not trying to do so for the looks or to trap them. That was the most town like interaction I had looked at so far.

What about the contradiction he claimed to have found in nebula's post?

[Music Box]

No? I don't understand what you're getting at in regards to why I voted for you.

Hawk's tone in 12 doesn't make me feel a way. You said that Hawk asked for a wagon.

I said of his, "seemed too considered"; you said of mine, "feels forced ". That's what I meant by the same reason. And Hawk didn't literally ask for a wagon. His post just prompted me to decide to start a wagon on him to help me sort out whether he had a town motive.

[Sesq]

Lil Uzi Vert - Randomly voted Music Box. I've played with him before, and this is far out of character for him.

Far out of character for him how? Further if it isn’t alignment indicative (which is the inference I am getting from you lack of voting) why even bring it up?

Hello again. I've played in a game with LUV before and he was very slow to place a vote down that game. I do put him on a slight scum lean, but just because I'm not voting for him doesn't mean I don't think he could be scum. It's still important to bring up I believe.

I do not plan to respond to it in its entirety, as I believe that some points will result in needless debate without resolution.

This sounds to me like you admitting you can't battle said points. My suspicions are growing.

@nebula, stop nagging me. my reads are infallible. Except in cases when they fail. Which never happens. Check my meta, I've never been wrong. Only you have, if you check my meta and find me being wrong. That's wrong.

Lil is gut. He's too safe. Sesq reads like he wants to coast and pretend to look helpful. I forget who else you asked about.

Where am I coasting along, and couldn't the same argument be made for LUV?

[Hawk]

@Musicbox. So you'd rather I just sheep the wagon vote when literally 4 people had commented yet? (It was just me, BBT, Lowell who hasn't said anything since, and Magna) I mean sure watching how everyone else played around that wagon would have been interesting but I just chose to spread the votes instead.

And what did you gain from that?

Engagement from you, who took my RVS vote for a bit more than that. (I can see the effort here it doesn't) gives me a softer townlean on you. Conversation with LUV and Magna also kinda came from my actions. I'm town leaning Magna for legitimate attempts to scumhunt.

And we got people mindlessly Sheeping (Ala Lowell) Who hasn't contributed to much but some 1 to 2 sentence answers to some questions and "Agree" when referencing Magna going over my ISO.

So some soft townleans and a scumlean so far from what I've done. I mean I'm sure this will all be more insightful as the day goes on but it's just how I chose to start the game? Why did you choose to engage me rather than throw and RVS vote? Why not engage Nebula who was being Wagon'd or someone else?

[nebula]

This sounds to me like you admitting you can't battle said points. My suspicions are growing.

Hi Sesq. Quite the opposite in actuality. However, as I explicitly said, MagnaofIllusion would have likely been able to articulately continued the debate; and, with no provable result, it could have dragged on causing an unnecessary distraction. Given that one of the points was entirely based on the utility of an action, and the other point was in regard to the replace out, I felt it in the best interest to be forthcoming and explain that I did not intend to debate on those two items. Fortunately, Creature was able to put one of the points to rest, which I stated and MagnaofIllusion agreed.

What I find somewhat disconcerting is that you are trying to utilize this as a vehicle to paint my actions as suspicious - of which you now indicate are growing, but have not previously indicated were established given that you thought my "responses were fairly solid." Perhaps I was too haste in my town read of you based on your willingness to engage with me yesterday.

Where am I coasting along, and couldn't the same argument be made for LUV?

I believe Lowell has previously voted for Lil Uzi Vert, so this is probably not the argument that you wish to make.

So some soft townleans and a scumlean so far from what I've done.

Hi, Hawk. Would you share with us who your soft townleands and scum lean are at this point. I am making the assumption that MusicBox is your scumlean given that is where your vote is; however, I am not sure if you are referring to Lowell given the previous statement about "mindlessly Sheeping."

[Sesq]

Hi Sesq. Quite the opposite in actuality. However, as I explicitly said, MagnaofIllusion would have likely been able to articulately continued the debate; and, with no provable result, it could have dragged on causing an unnecessary distraction. Given that one of the points was entirely based on the utility of an action, and the other point was in regard to the replace out, I felt it in the best interest to be forthcoming and explain that I did not intend to debate on those two items. Fortunately, Creature was able to put one of the points to rest, which I stated and MagnaofIllusion agreed.

What I find somewhat disconcerting is that you are trying to utilize this as a vehicle to paint my actions as suspicious - of which you now indicate are growing, but have not previously indicated were established given that you thought my "responses were fairly solid." Perhaps I was too haste in my town read of you based on your willingness to engage with me yesterday.

I do agree that with this point it was kind of bunk, but your choice of vocabulary comes off as scummy. That said, it's more of a gut read at this point, which I have previously stated to be the case. In terms of logic you do present good points with rather unfortunate framing, but my gut is still going off like mad. But your worst part here is your last sentence, "Perhaps I was too haste in my town read of you based on your willingness to engage with me yesterday". First of all, I WAS engaging with you with that post, and with this very post as well. Engagement is also fairly NAI.

I believe Lowell has previously voted for Lil Uzi Vert, so this is probably not the argument that you wish to make.

I didn't realize that was who he had voted for prior to me. Pretty funny.

[nebula]

I do agree that with this point it was kind of bunk, but your choice of vocabulary comes off as scummy. That said, it's more of a gut read at this point, which I have previously stated to be the case. In terms of logic you do present good points with rather unfortunate framing, but my gut is still going off like mad. But your worst part here is your last sentence, "Perhaps I was too haste in my town read of you based on your willingness to engage with me yesterday". First of all, I WAS engaging with you with that post, and with this very post as well. Engagement is also fairly NAI.

Hi, Sesq. Could you point to what vocabulary I used that came across as scummy? It would be helpful for me to understand that.

Also, I believe that you misinterpreted my last sentence. I was stating that I read you as town yesterday based on the fact that you engaged with me - which you now point out should not be indicative of alignment. I was stating that I may have been to haste in that read given the basis of your suspicion. I believe that to not be genuine.

VOTE: Sesq

[Sesq]

I do agree that with this point it was kind of bunk, but your choice of vocabulary comes off as scummy. That said, it's more of a gut read at this point, which I have previously stated to be the case. In terms of logic you do present good points with rather unfortunate framing, but my gut is still going off like mad. But your worst part here is your last sentence, "Perhaps I was too haste in my town read of you based on your willingness to engage with me yesterday". First of all, I WAS engaging with you with that post, and with this very post as well. Engagement is also fairly NAI.

Hi, Sesq. Could you point to what vocabulary I used that came across as scummy? It would be helpful for me to understand that.

Also, I believe that you misinterpreted my last sentence. I was stating that I read you as town yesterday based on the fact that you engaged with me - which you now point out should not be indicative of alignment. I was stating that I may have been to haste in that read given the basis of your suspicion. I believe that to not be genuine.

VOTE: Sesq

The way in which you dismissed the ban replacement conspiracy came off as very scummy language, as if you really wanted to get rid of it to get attention off. Again, you have solid logic and that was stupid, but I can't shake this gut feel on you. I definitely wouldn't vote you for it or want anyone else to, though. I think you're accusing our former interaction of not being geniune, which I've learned is a buzzword you can apply to nearly anyone's town-looking interactions and make them look scummy for it. You need to actually back up why you think it. Also, are you saying I am your strongest scumread? You're only acting off of "ingenuity" here, which really is not a strong justification without further explanation. Given this vote and its circumstances, I can say that my read against you is not entirely gut-based.

Readslist after dinner.

[KainTepes]

CONFIRM MAFIA GOON,,

Hi, KainTepes.

I do not believe that you are actually a Mafia Goon, and I am assuming that you made that statement in an effort to appear more "town." What are your thoughts on the game so far?

Frederick is my SCUMBUDDUY,,

VOTE: FREDERICK B CAMPBAGE

[nebula]

I think you're accusing our former interaction of not being geniune, which I've learned is a buzzword you can apply to nearly anyone's town-looking interactions and make them look scummy for it.

To clarify, which I believe I have already stated, I believe that you using my - now expressed as logical - response to MagnaofIllusion as a vehicle for your suspicion on me is not genuine. If that is a buzzword that Mafia-aligned players have a tendency to use, I apologize, but it does not negate the fact that I do not believe it to be genuine.

Why do I believe it to be disingenuous? Because, as an argument it is very weak - as you have pointed out. The sole purpose of it appears to be trying to portray me as Mafia, despite the lack of underlying substance. To answer a previous question - yes, I am voting you because I believe you to be Mafia. MagnaofIllusion has indicated that votes are useful for analysis, to which I conceded I would change my play.

[Sesq]

So for reads, Pepchoninga, VeeGee, and Frederick B Cambell have not posted at all, so, idk.

-=TOWN=-
Magna
-=WEAKTOWN=-
Hawk
-=NULL-TOWN=-
BlueBloodedToffee
Riley Cake (Also, why is articulation a scumtell? Prease exprain.)
Music Box (dont know what to make of this guy)
-=NULL=-
KainTepes - Seems to be joking, i don't even know.
Lowell
Toto - Same with these two. I really just don't know.
-=NULLSCUM=-
nebula - Vote on me with little explanation, scummy word choice, gut. I'm expecting him to fall down a bit on my ranking. PEDIT: Didn't happen yet.
Lil Uzi Vert - Play seems really odd opposed to the game I played with him when he was town. I don't know.

So my conclusion is that I have no idea what the hell to do.

UNVOTE: Toto

PEDIT: nebula has responded. I agree with you on that point though, that argument you were shooting down was really idiotic, and I've said as much. I agreed with you back then, but my concern is about how the language just seems really weirdly placed. Also, shouldn't the fact that I'm pointing out the weakness of my own argument, and not voting you at all, tell you something? Before your vote on me happened, I had stated that my read against you was entirely gut and that I wasn't going to act on it, nor should other people, so if you think I'm trying to use this as a vessel to wagon on you, you're clearly mistaken. I should have clarified in my earlier post that not genuine wasn't really a common buzzword, but that it's an accusation you can safely shoot at people and kinda look like you know what you're doing, and I'm not going to let people slip by on such a potentially (and commonly) empty justification.

[PenguinPower]

Hi, Sesq. I have decided not to quote your last post in its entirety due to its size. Could you provide reasoning for your town reads as you have done for your scum reads? It would be helpful.

[nebula]

And....I slipped. Oops. That bit was getting rough.

[nebula]

You are f'ing scum though.

[Hawk]

Soooooooooo forced. lol That Nebula slip has me rolling.

Anyway my scumlean is actually more on Lowell than anyone else.

VOTE: Lowell

Soft town leans on

Magna, MB, and Nebula(can I call you Nebbie :p)

Scumlean on Lowell.

Here's my reasoning. Magna and MB both decided to pick apart and hunt for something scummy in my statements. Shows some effort and some town motivations. Lowell on the other hand has given some rather loose 1 to 2 liner reads and a sheep vote because Magna pressured me. (Note He also sheeped Magna's RVS vote but this point is irrelevant till people start flipping)

Other players I have rather nullish to soft reads for but I need to a bit more to firm them up.

Reserving actual reads on Sesq, LUV, and Toto basically.

If I'm forgetting anyone please let me know.

Also no KT I'm not forgetting you.

Kaintepeslean on Kain Tepes. Fairly certain that KT is KainTepes :p

[Hawk]

Oh realized I left out Riley and BBT. Yeah those are null too. BBT gave real soft reads and I have no idea how to read Riley yet.

Also for everyone who is reading LUV based off his behavior being different from prior games understand that Meta is pretty fucking NAI for good players. I mean just look at Nebbie :p

[nebula]

Nebbie, or Nebs, is cool. I like your reads.

I've only played one other game with Lowell and he was lurky/sheepy in that. I would like him to actually provide some content this time around.

Also, I cbf'd to make any more walls. God, I hate walls.

P-edit

F'you.

[Sesq]

Hi, Sesq. I have decided not to quote your last post in its entirety due to its size. Could you provide reasoning for your town reads as you have done for your scum reads? It would be helpful.

When you address my arguments I will. "You are fucking scum" doesn't quite cut it for me.

VOTE: nebula

Also, good point about overemphasizing meta, Hawk. However his play hasn't particularly been very good regardless.

[nebula]

You're wasting your effort on me, but I'll entertain it. I actually did, in an annoying way, clarify why you are scum. You made an opportunistic hop on to a seemingly newb slot based on admittedly bad logic. Also, never ever heard of the "genuine" thing as a buzzword. Opportunistic, yes. But not "genuine."

It's cool, though. We can still be friends.

[Hawk]

Nebbie, or Nebs, is cool. I like your reads.

I've only played one other game with Lowell and he was lurky/sheepy in that. I would like him to actually provide some content this time around.

Also, I cbf'd to make any more walls. God, I hate walls.

P-edit

F'you.

I didn't mean it in a bad way just that people can slip in and out of a meta with effort.

Also I like that you like Nebby.

[Sesq]

You're wasting your effort on me, but I'll entertain it. I actually did, in an annoying way, clarify why you are scum. You made an opportunistic hop on to a seemingly newb slot based on admittedly bad logic. Also, never ever heard of the "genuine" thing as a buzzword. Opportunistic, yes. But not "genuine."

It's cool, though. We can still be friends.

You don't seem to understand. Before you voted me, I had said that I didn't want people to vote for you. I also already explained what I meant by genuine being a buzzword, in that it isn't, and that was bad wording.

You should know this if you read the fucking thread.

[nebula]

Hawk and I are forming a townbloc. I think KainTepes can join. By association, Frederick is also allowed in. Whoever else wants to apply may do so via PM (don't do that btw, you'll be mod killed).

[Sesq]

Hawk and I are forming a townbloc. I think KainTepes can join. By association, Frederick is also allowed in. Whoever else wants to apply may do so via PM (don't do that btw, you'll be mod killed).

Does this mean you'll flip soon? We haven't seen anything in thread thus far.