Star Wars Rogue One [GAME OVER]

[Firebringer]

Nero Cain has been modkilled!

[Firebringer]

Nero Cain has been mod revived.

[Aj The Epic]

Like zefiend has been... slightly more high key about his alignment with his flailing.

I'd argue that flailing is 10x more likely to come from town than scum.

Like ok, I can understand the argument that he's fence sitting scum but its just meh since I think that's fairly null. I do kinda like Heartless' thing about him being so quick to rethink his Mastin read but idk...I'm on the fence. Can you guys nom me for a scummy? I think I'm the first scum player with a green pm and that's maybe Kodak moment worthy...

Uh yeah talk to me after you get wagering miller.

I think flailing completely depends on context of when it occurs. I've been known to scum read people who lose their read real fast like Zefiend did but those people also have a trackrecord of getting talked out of reads (so I reconsider that). And normally it's them being talked out of lynching someone, a sign of insecurity in their reads. Zefiend going the other way (bringing a town read into lynch range) is opportunistic. I mean, I think we both are sitting on the same wavelength here but that's where I'm at.

Given your no comment on my claim, I take it you believe a JK and Molla's JOAT are able to exist both on town?

[Infinity 324]

TheWayItEnds, Drunken Piper, BBmolla,

This should not be a thing

[Nero Cain]

Are you full? Who'd you keep last night?

[SirCakez]

Are you really that confident about Titus?

Like zefiend has been... slightly more high key about his alignment with his flailing.

yes, last time I was this confident about her she was scum too (Street Fighter)

Titus will get away though <.<

no don't give me that

zefiend is scum. you see it. i see it.

let's get this done.

Will you help lynch Titus tomorrow?

[Nero Cain]

she is playing just like Street Fighter huh?

[Heartless]

I'd argue that flailing is 10x more likely to come from town than scum.

what aj is referring to as zefiend's "flailing" (kind of an imprecise word, imo) is well on the baseline i've seen from his scumgame. http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=65913

[SirCakez]

she is playing just like Street Fighter huh?

No she's playing differently from that, but she's still scum

[Heartless]

Will you help lynch Titus tomorrow?

if we're around and we're scumreading her

yes

[Nero Cain]

No she's playing differently from that, but she's still scum

I see parallels. Like how she lurked until there was major heat on her/PV and how she tunneled one player exclusivly early game (Jackrito/Infinity) but I guess it doesn't really matter. We both know she's scum. Let us be united in our efforts against the galactic republic.

[ɀefiend]

If it looks like an Infinity, walks like a SirCakez, and talks like a mastina...

The question directed at cakez also feels quite fake

VOTE: zefiend

As to your second point, I will admit that my initial read of the game placed mastina as Town because I didn't think her tone was being faked; that it would come from a bus. I gave her the benefit of the doubt. But if you and other vets in the game are saying this is within scum!mastina's range, I will also give you the benefit of the doubt. I absolutely hate being tricked by tone and my gut feeling is that mastina's was Town who just had a really good tell on Pine. If enough people tell me that my gut is being stupid, I'll stop relying on it.

This is so scum

As to your second point, I will admit that my initial read of the game placed mastina as Town because I didn't think her tone was being faked; that it would come from a bus. I gave her the benefit of the doubt. But if you and other vets in the game are saying this is within scum!mastina's range, I will also give you the benefit of the doubt. I absolutely hate being tricked by tone and my gut feeling is that mastina's was Town who just had a really good tell on Pine. If enough people tell me that my gut is being stupid, I'll stop relying on it.

This is so scum

Yeah looking at his recent posts agreed.

...

...

These two posts are terribad.

As to your second point, I will admit that my initial read of the game placed mastina as Town because I didn't think her tone was being faked; that it would come from a bus. I gave her the benefit of the doubt. But if you and other vets in the game are saying this is within scum!mastina's range, I will also give you the benefit of the doubt. I absolutely hate being tricked by tone and my gut feeling is that mastina's was Town who just had a really good tell on Pine. If enough people tell me that my gut is being stupid, I'll stop relying on it.

Okay. zefiend's previous posting was null enough: it wasn't town, but it wasn't something I felt was a strong indicator of being scum.

This?

This, though? Pure scumposting.

@Nero
Interesting. You know, from an outsider perspective, the whole You (Nero)-Titus-Infinity triangle is perplexing. You keep hinting at lynching or flipping Infinity or possibly even that he's scum. You do know that that's Titus's top push?
Or is Infinity more like a "wait til more flips to reassess" type of lynch?

Did I say zefiend's last post was pure scumposting?
I take it back.
zefiend's last post is fucking SAINTLY compared to this.

THIS is essence le scum.

What the fuck are you talking about?

I read the thread and gave my initial read on mastina. Since then, two people with more tenure have engaged me and I'm trying to walk through their perspective with them. Where did I ever say my read on mastina is now scum or I would consider lynching them?? I said that my position on town-reading mastina based on tone/unlikely to bus Pine was flexible with the proper input.

At this point your are being glaringly dense or scum grasping for straws. There is no way a town mindset concocts some sort of interpretation where my read of mastina flips 180 because of a brief conversation with two players.

And this is more scum posting in case there was any doubt to be had.

...
Same with this scumbutt. He was just looking for an excuse to start discrediting, like he's doing with infinity.

The feeling when {Infinity, SirCakez, mastina} are unironically the scumteam. Wow.

Three players, all saying I'm scum, with no evident reasoning. Infinity defending mastina, SirCakez defending Infinity, and mastina posturing on SirCakez. Let's not forget that SirCakez slid a very pointed question I had for him about Pine. Or that now SirCakez is trying to line up lynches:

Are you really that confident about Titus?

Like zefiend has been... slightly more high key about his alignment with his flailing.

yes, last time I was this confident about her she was scum too (Street Fighter)

Titus will get away though <.<

no don't give me that

zefiend is scum. you see it. i see it.

let's get this done.

Will you help lynch Titus tomorrow?

Let's not forget Infinity claiming mastina was a poor lynch D1 because mastina's a strong player, but also willing to move freely between Klingon and Thinker. Or how about the fact that Infinity wanted Pine for a majority of D1, felt he was the best, scummiest lynch, but abandoned that with no natural progression.

Here are the posts for consideration,

@Heartless

, that comprise the case I was trying to explain to you earlier. Read them and tell me there is no inconsistency with Infinity's mannerisms towards EoD D1.

Spoiler:

I wanna vote thinker with you but I don't think we can get 5 other people to do it in 3 days.

All players, may I have your attention at this time, this is unfortunately not your rogue leader speaking. Please place your votes on a player who has at least 3 other votes on them at this time. Thank you.

Would you rather lynch yourself? Cause I still am not down for AJ and we have 3 days left

Infinity, he's right. You're even calling out now that Mastina as scummy and how you might be playing in to her scum plans.

So what's up with that?

Pine is the scummiest viable wagon imo, so I voted pine. Thats all there is to it.

Post 165, 182, 746, 891 of you thinking I'm town and then you vote me out of "shaking things up" and argue that deadline is the reason you advocate a lynch on who you're voting for.

That's suspect as fuck.

Say what you want, but I'd rather lynch town than no one. And you disappearing after being so active definitely dropped you in my reads.

24 hour days means a lot more activity within those hours. On ms people are offline, inactive, etc or just stubborn so in my experience quick compromises usually don't work out.

Key word is usually

It's 3 days is the deadline. That means people are forced to come online at least one more or two more times to not be prodded meaning they have to produce content. Now, I'm always up for smashing D1 going over everything that happened and then break the day and conclude who's scum in a town jam of 24 hours or less.

All I need is a couple people who are willing to be hyperactive with me for a few solid hours going over each player and GG.

/Gin

Ok we'll see what happens. So again who do you want to try to wagon and why?

You said I was the scummiest viable wagon, not somewhat scummy

You're a null for me I guess. But uh...those things aren't mutually exclusive

Because you're the scummiest player who I think can be lynched today.

I'd rather lynch town than no one.

Titus, you have a chance of being right if LUV wasn't a wagon.


Infinity, you got me fucked up saying you just vote who you think you can lynch instead of voting who you think is the scummiest.

I think you're the only one on LUV atm

Unfortunately, with 3 days left, I feel like I can only vote realistic lynches. Yes of course it's possible to get 5 people to change votes in 3 days, but it's not worth the risk to me.

Infinity, Nacho, Desperado, and Aeronaut are my choices.

You only get 3

VOTE: klingon

Yeah the pine vote was probably dumb in the first place

Sorry, not today. Even if it was realistic mastin is too good of a potential town player to get rid of d1.

Klingon [5] Inf, desp,

cakez, pine

, titus
mastin [1] nero
Pine-A-Tonics [4] mastina, Klingoncelt, Nachomamma8, piper
SirCakez [1] Aj The Epic
Lil Uzi Vert [1] heartless
Aj The Epic [1]

BBmolla

The Thinker [2] TheWayItEnds, Lil Uzi Vert

Not Voting - [2]

Aeronaut

,

The Thinker

Basically, the whole Pine wagon is town.
The Klingoncelt wagon has two scum on it.
The Thinker wagon was strongly town, but has weakened. The SirCakez wagon was also town, but has disintegrated.
There's scum in the remnants of the AJ wagon (Molla), and scum not taking a stance anywhere. (The Thinker/Aero, stronger on TheThinker.)

Very interesting, our reads differences, although small, happen to lead us to opposite conclusions about the alignments of the 2 top wagons. Because I townread cakez and nullread pine, making the kling wagon mostly town. And I scumread you and klingon, making the pine wagon scummy.

Stop this nonsense and vote klingon or convince some people to vote thinker.

Because klingon is scummy enough that I don't care

I have an idea.

In everyone's next post they say everyone they are ok with lynching. Then we run up whoever appears the most. It could be manipulated by scum, but it can also catch them floating their buddies at nullscum.

{kling, molla, thinker}

Even if you don't like that idea, making sure we lynch someone should be everyone's top priority.

VOTE: thinker

Let's see if this gets traction

Let's try again and if it doesn't work hopefully TWIE and heartless will join us on klingon or smth

Not today, it isn't worth the risk of her being town.

Can you do thinker or klingon?

Well there were some things klingon said that seemed to have a town tone. Not enough to make them town, but enough to make them townier than ari who was just fake all over the place and didn't scumhunt at all

WTF? You keep making these really bizarre statements. What's the difference if you scumread them both?

I'd rather lynch someone I have a stronger scumread on

My main worry with this is that ari won't come back, we'll lynch him and then he'll be a PR. But there's not much we can do about that at this point

By the way, you are no longer engaging me in good faith. I have tried to explain everything to you. Despite you saying that you understand my points, you are conf-biasing based on my entry post. Your DEFAULT is to assume everything I'm saying afterward is bullshit even though I'm being transparent as possible with my thought process. There is no productive development here. You are claiming to meta read me when you there is plenty of conflict in my meta. 1) I showed you a game

that you were in

where I did the exact same sort of catch-up post as town, 2) you assume me to be the type of player who holds my town-reads in high esteem when I am quite the opposite, 3) and you claim that because I didn't ask Nero & Pere for games, I shouldn't take their opinion into account -- I have NEVER asked ANYONE in ANY game I've ever been in to "supply" games for meta tells (the only time I've asked for games is in 3-way-LYLO as a clear, to have more information). I judge things based on the context of the current game. Titus can vouch for me on that as we've completed two recent games where I held strongfast to that mentality with regard to meta.

-----

SirCake into the scumpile also.

Yes, he is, and I'd be happy to bus him if you'd vote with me there! Push come to shove, if nothing else.

SirCake into the scumpile also.

Yes, he is, and I'd be happy to bus him if you'd vote with me there! Push come to shove, if nothing else.

Let's see it.

Vote: SirCakez

This. So much this.

VOTE: SireCakez

[Nero Cain]

This. So much this.

VOTE: SireCakez

you spelled Titus wrong.

[Titus]

Nero, why do you tunnel me in every game? You and Cakez both have mistepresented my early game vla as lurking, and now that I am here, you refuse to engage me but continuously take potshots and spam.

I have asked you repeatedly for your stance on BBMolla and Mastina. Nothing.

Everytime a wagon gets going, you speculate that I am their partner. Yet, you haven't speculated that with SirCakez. Why?

[Nero Cain]

Cakez is town.

Mastina I've been hard pushing and I can't fathom that a town you that's active and engaged wouldn't know this.

[Nero Cain]

Molla I'm kinda fence sitting on. I'm weighing the whole AJ is a keeper and can that exist with Bollas role if the vanilla thing is a scum gambit. Though its a marathon not a sprint so we'll see how flips go.

[Nero Cain]

refuse to engage me but continuously take potshots

I don't see how this is any different than you.

Can you talk to me about your scumreads because you seem to go back and forth between scum and town all the time.

[Heartless]

Read them and tell me there is no inconsistency with Infinity's mannerisms towards EoD D1.

yeah.... what i see is a bunch of quotes and i STILL have no idea what the conclusion i'm supposed to draw from them is. what's supposed to be out-of-sorts here?

By the way, you are no longer engaging me in good faith. I have tried to explain everything to you. Despite you saying that you understand my points, you are conf-biasing based on my entry post. Your DEFAULT is to assume everything I'm saying afterward is bullshit even though I'm being transparent as possible with my thought process. There is no productive development here.

so throwing a bunch of quotes at me constitutes the good faith effort on your part and now it's back on me?

nice try, but that's not "engagement"

1) I showed you a game that you were in where I did the exact same sort of catch-up post as town

....and the fact that you had that game on-hand tells me you're very ACUTELY aware of the meta so... no, no townie-points for you.

2) you assume me to be the type of player who holds my town-reads in high esteem when I am quite the opposite,

given that the probability of townreads are FAR more likely to be accurate than scumreads just through sheer numbers, this is a very illogical habit, but whatever...

and you claim that because I didn't ask Nero & Pere for games, I shouldn't take their opinion into account

now you're misstating my issue. the issue isn't "taking other people's opinions into account." it's "there's this strange absence of YOUR own judgment and/or curiosity in this WHOLE process." that should be present even when you're taking other people's opinions into account. ESPECIALLY when the "other people" are null reads. unless you're in the habit of taking null reads' opinions at face value and there's no fucking way

[Heartless]

oh and, you know, i'm glad you brought up RC's game again because i remember IMMEDIATELY townreading that catchup (because you were town that time) so no you can't claim i'm just scumreading style

[Heartless]

cakez, please vote zefiend

[ɀefiend]

Read them and tell me there is no inconsistency with Infinity's mannerisms towards EoD D1.

yeah.... what i see is a bunch of quotes and i STILL have no idea what the conclusion i'm supposed to draw from them is. what's supposed to be out-of-sorts here?

By the way, you are no longer engaging me in good faith. I have tried to explain everything to you. Despite you saying that you understand my points, you are conf-biasing based on my entry post. Your DEFAULT is to assume everything I'm saying afterward is bullshit even though I'm being transparent as possible with my thought process. There is no productive development here.

so throwing a bunch of quotes at me constitutes the good faith effort on your part and now it's back on me?

nice try, but that's not "engagement"

1) I showed you a game that you were in where I did the exact same sort of catch-up post as town

....and the fact that you had that game on-hand tells me you're very ACUTELY aware of the meta so... no, no townie-points for you.

2) you assume me to be the type of player who holds my town-reads in high esteem when I am quite the opposite,

given that the probability of townreads are FAR more likely to be accurate than scumreads just through sheer numbers, this is a very illogical habit, but whatever...

and you claim that because I didn't ask Nero & Pere for games, I shouldn't take their opinion into account

now you're misstating my issue. the issue isn't "taking other people's opinions into account." it's "there's this strange absence of YOUR own judgment and/or curiosity in this WHOLE process." that should be present even when you're taking other people's opinions into account. ESPECIALLY when the "other people" are null reads. unless you're in the habit of taking null reads' opinions at face value and there's no fucking way

Read the quotes in the context of my earlier summation case on Infinity. There is blatant pandering to wagons (KoC and Thinker, both town btw), avoidance to wagon (mastina), and dissonance between words and actions on the Pine wagon. All of this directly contrasts with a "no time to act" mantra he was spewing.

This was your initial problem with my post:

VOTE: zefiend

scum catch up

Why?

bc you use a ton of words to say not very much and the reads themselves are so cookie cutter and meh

talk about this more when not on a phone

anyway back to this

in the opening post i feel like he's just sort of going through the motions and dryly pointing out things that MIGHT be scummy but there's really no direction to any of the thoughts and most all the reads just kind of end up in this weird limbo. i'm not really seeing any effort to go beyond surface level or any attempt to say what the most LIKELY situation is. it's the appearance of "gamesolving" without really solving anything.

I brought up the RC game to show that my intentions were exactly the same, I wasn't TRYING to be anything but superficial. I was trying to lay out my first-read-thru thoughts on paper and that's what I did here.

How was I not taking my own judgment into account? As a first time player with mastina I picked up on a pure tonal read on her which led me to believe she was town. As the only person who commented on her tone this game (besides perhaps herself) how can you assert that my independent thoughts weren't going into this process?

Peregrine was null as of the catch-up post because of the LUV slot. But he immediately towned it up and made several points about mastina. That in combination with Nero's points heavily challenged my one-dimensjonal read on mastina and so I promised to reassess. For some reason you're not seeing this progression as a good thing and instead just conf-biasing through all my explanations. Look at the depth of my play since then and get with the program.

[ɀefiend]

cakez, please vote zefiend

Like, you're not even reading the substance of my posts. You're just brigading all of my other content. How do I know this? You admitted you follow my explanations and yet you don't even acknowledge my efforts at hunting other players (even though you asked for me to help you understand my reads)

This tunneling is utter shit and I'm moving around until I see otherwise.

[ɀefiend]

@Nero, read my points on SirCakez and then try to convince me he's town. Protip: you cant. Also Titus is off the table. She's town this game.

[Heartless]

How was I not taking my own judgment into account? As a first time player with mastina I picked up on a pure tonal read on her which led me to believe she was town. As the only person who commented on her tone this game (besides perhaps herself) how can you assert that my independent thoughts weren't going into this process?

NOW we're not even talking about the same event

^this is talking about the formulation of the initial mastin "read"

i was talking about how you approached PV and nero's input

[Heartless]

That in combination with Nero's points heavily challenged my one-dimensjonal read on mastina

what were these points?