Mini 1877: Spyro the Dragon (Game Over)

[Infinity 324]

Sup I'm town

[Infinity 324]

I'm up to page 6, gin looks pretty town, spammers looks town, E&A is a bit worrying.

[Infinity 324]

FA, would you say you're playing the same or different from the hydra blitz

RC can answer too

[Infinity 324]

VOTE: E&A

That's an overly aggressive response

And I just said I read up to page 6 so ???

[Infinity 324]

FA, would you say you're playing the same or different from the hydra blitz

RC can answer too

I'm the exactly same dismotivated angry FA so

what in first 6 pages make you ask this?

Gut, specifically you were a little quick to call people scum (and I know you say it was for reactions with gin, but still)

Thats such a bizzare question

Explain the logic behind that question

#Elsa

I noticed a couple similarities and I often find it useful to judge people's descriptions of their own play to see if they are genuine

[Infinity 324]

I'm gonna continue my catchup on my phone and my comp, on my comp I will quote stuff on my phone maybe maybe not.

[Infinity 324]

VOTE: Infinity 324

This is where I fakeclaim cop guilties.

we're lynching this today.

Yep here we go

who was that similar to that game?

#Elsa

You, I think, since you did most of the posting in the first few pages

and who did I call scum?

#Elsa

Gin and spammers

[Infinity 324]

Oh wait a hydra of Frozen Angel and RadiantCowbells is aggressive who would have thought it dear lord it's insane!!!!

Key word there is overly.

You're not trying to figure me out at all, I would've expected you to at least fake it

[Infinity 324]

I don't think town!E&A are this dramatic about a single vote on them.

[Infinity 324]

I heard once that a hydra partner of yours sometimes likes to exaggerate for reactions. Guess what? Me too.

[Infinity 324]

Oh wait a hydra of Frozen Angel and RadiantCowbells is aggressive who would have thought it dear lord it's insane!!!!

Key word there is overly.

You're not trying to figure me out at all, I would've expected you to at least fake it

where was I overly aggressive? I'm not actually pushing anyone imo

I didn't call people scummy in hydra blitz I practically lurked till EOD2

Why you asked that question?

#Elsa

RC was overly aggressive in his response to my question

I went back and checked...you (as a head) were suspicious of a lot of different stuff even if it was just individual posts and you ended up having a townread on that slot.

I explained why I asked the meta question, it's because I find that people describing their own playstyles can often gie me a better read on them

HEY INFINITY!

Hi! I love your sig

I heard once that a hydra partner of yours sometimes likes to exaggerate for reactions. Guess what? Me too.

that was @RC or me?

#Elsa

@RC

This is tiring and I think that means I'm right

*deep breath*

PEdit: holy shit and hi leon!

[Infinity 324]

So for you to come in here and call us scum for something that doesn't make sense and accuse us of being aggressive when it doesn't make sense then say you were exaggerating for reactions

The arguments are not reaction tests, the confidence is.

do you really want to get lynched on day 1 instead of someone else who might possibly be scum because you insisted on antagonizing two people who deathtunnel shitty FoSes on them?

I want to play to my wincon, and that means lynching scum...

...no matter how frustrating or difficult that may be.

But I find it funny (though also possible from town) that you're being so transparent about your intentions--don't try to convince me you're town, try to convince me you're not worth pushing.

Well screw that. I'm pushing you guys anyway. Bring on the AtE and the OMGUS and the drama. I want to see this shit.

[Infinity 324]

Like there's so much different. In the Blitz I was the driving head and Elsa showed up when we got pressured. In this game Elsa is the driving head and I am only showing up when I want to do something big.
In the blitz we were aggressively pushing a number of slots. In this we're mostly just focusing on a few people that we're concerned are scum.
If you think that replacing in and making a demonstrably dishonest comparison is reaction testing then I have some news for you bud.

I asked a

question

to see how you would respond. I'm not saying you played the same for sure, because I am on

page 6

.

But I do see some similarities in your demeanor, yes.

[Infinity 324]

Hey guys I'm not sure how to explain this since I was townreading Gin for most of the game but I just had a sudden epiphany of not liking the slot.

This does not come from town!RC

[Infinity 324]

You have an ego problem...

THIS IS A LITERAL SCUMCLAIM. THIS POST MAKES NO SENSE UNLESS THEY ARE SCUM. THINK ABOUT IT FROM REAL GIN'S POV.

I'm thinking about it, and I don't see what you see...

[Infinity 324]

Infinity I'll be blunt I don't give a shit about convincing you that we're town. You either are too paranoid of our slot to matter or are scum; either way you are not worth our time.

I'm always open to changing my opinions, but I don't think I'll have to this time

But fine. The game will probably be more enjoyable this way.

[Infinity 324]

We have a vig alive, so we either keep the vig alive or me, just out of spite I'm going to go ahead give you a big fuck you. I'm the 1-shot role cop. You can leave your ego any fucking day sweetheart.

...why?

Calm down gin. We caught scum.

[Infinity 324]

Oh and infinity if you're town you should be watching because this is

categorical

town!RC play.

Ok I'll be watching.

PEdit: lol

but you sound like you think they're town?

[Infinity 324]

Remember when MoI clarified with FA that they're not actually a friendly neighbor? (I read that part since I had the game bookmarked already)

[Infinity 324]

>.>

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... y_Neighbor

yeah

During Dota Mafia design reallo told a wrong name for this role to me then, I was using this shit for a long time now >.>

We are a messenger - the role that sends a message but won't confirm us directly.

#Elsa

[Infinity 324]

I think they just send messages to people

[Infinity 324]

The don't confirm themselves is the bottom line.

[Infinity 324]

Eh

It's true the claim is more likely to be town, but scum messenger is not, like, implausible

[Infinity 324]

Back to catching up...

You just said that you could discern Elsa’s alignment.

No he didn't, he said that the content FA posted was more AI than the RVS. That doesn't mean it's enough to get a solid read.

Magna is his usual nitpicky wallposty self...

PEdit: no rolecop doesn't determine alignment.

[Infinity 324]

I didn't like leon's RVS in the middle of stuff going on but I get townvibes from him, idk why

PEdit: what do you mean

[Infinity 324]

True, but it's still not a good idea to claim...

[Infinity 324]

Infinity would you stop trying to throw lifelines to caught scum because if you keep doing it you are going to get vigged tonight.

...we'll talk when you make your case

@Gin Uh, we get it. RC and FA have egos. It's not really helping anything to keep pointing that out

[Infinity 324]

Rc starts a lot of games accusing someone to be their scum partner to find a scum like you - attacking back

pedit : Are you saying RC accusing their hydra partner as a joke and game starting with selfvote in RVS is scummy That much that you want Meta to reconsider?

Let’s play spot the contradiction. Ten points to whoever buzzes in first.

I didn't see this actually

[Infinity 324]

Add obvtown to the lynch pool and keep possible mislynch bait (me) as an option for later, all while discrediting the scumreads on them. Textbook.

Gin, just vote E&A. I'm pretty sure they're scum.

[Infinity 324]

My gut is saying Prohawk is town right now, I really like how he asked for evidence on RC's reaction tests the way he did. The way he went about it felt really authentic to me


- Vifam

Damn right it is

I think I like this post. It's a bit nitpicky, but it's page 7 so trying to make something out of not very much is a towntell for me.

PEdit: RC, I never said you were confirmed scum. I acted like my reasons were more definitive than they really were, yes. I'm definitely willing to re-evaluate, if you give me a reason to do so. Right now I'm just seeing more evidence you're scum. Conf bias? Maybe, but it's not like I'm seeing everything you do as scummy.

[Infinity 324]

I think that we've given you plenty of reasons to believe that we are town. You not believing that means that you are either scum or completely incapable of reading us.

What do you want me to do, argue with you? you haven't made a case. you just replaced in and said some bullshit about how 2 of the most aggressive players ever are scum for being aggressive.

No, I did say that I thought one of your posts was overly aggressive, and I also gave a lot of other reasons. If you want me to townread you guys, this misrepping is not helping.

Also, this

completely incapable of reading us.

is classic scum!RC.

[Infinity 324]

Gin I think you should take a break

[Infinity 324]

Infinity you've played what like 2 games with me? People with 30+ games with me can't read me well. Why do you think that you have a contextual understanding of what Scum!RC is and isn't?

The part I mentioned is secondhand, I remember people talking about how you use that particular line a lot as scum.

And I feel like I have a general understanding of your personality/playstyle, if not the specific differences between your town and scum games.

And see look. I think Infinity knows that Gin is digging his hole deeper and trying his best to bail him out. Where's the town motivation to tell him to bail here?

Because he's upset and needs a break, lol

PEdit: yes it is a misrep, I'll quote all the places where I brought up a point against you later.

I want you to explain a possible scum motivation for me coming into the thread and immediately voting a very aggressive, OMGUSy, and strong town hydra.

[Infinity 324]

Infinity isn't trying to read me. He's sitting there taking stuff out of context and saying it's 'something that scum rc does' without giving any sort of explanation as to why that's the case.

...I said that once

[Infinity 324]

Infinity I am going to not talk to you because you are either scum or are the kind of person who doesn't vaccinate their children IRL because they think it will give them autism.
I reallly don't believe that you are the latter category, but I am just covering my bases in case you are town because I believe it still IS possible. Not for Gin tho.

If you really believe this, that's very sad.

Also wait what the fuck are you really going to try and tell everyone in this game that you have secret discussions about the lines I use as scum and that's the one that came up?
Like first off let's talk about this. Who are you saying that you talked to about what my scum game is like and when did this happen because this is a pretty ridiculous claim.
As for the phrase, lol. There's so many lines that are legitimately scum indicative for me and you picked one that I say in pretty much every single game.

It wasn't someone I talked to, it was in post game for a marathon I believe and it's possible it might be wrong. It's possible people (you included iirc) were saying you say that line as scum but you also say it as town. I just put in the info in my back pocket cause I thought it might be useful later.

But uh, why say you won't talk to me and then ask to talk about this?

[Infinity 324]

Spoiler: reasons for scumreading E&A

VOTE: E&A

That's an overly aggressive response

And I just said I read up to page 6 so ???

Gut, specifically you were a little quick to call people scum (and I know you say it was for reactions with gin, but still)

I don't think town!E&A are this dramatic about a single vote on them.

But I find it funny (though also possible from town) that you're being so transparent about your intentions--don't try to convince me you're town, try to convince me you're not worth pushing.

Hey guys I'm not sure how to explain this since I was townreading Gin for most of the game but I just had a sudden epiphany of not liking the slot.

This does not come from town!RC

Add obvtown to the lynch pool and keep possible mislynch bait (me) as an option for later, all while discrediting the scumreads on them. Textbook.

If you want me to townread you guys, this misrepping is not helping.

Also, this

completely incapable of reading us.

is classic scum!RC.

Like ok, these reasons may not be the easiest to respond to. But I'll throw you a bone: Why did your tone talking to me change since you voted gin?

PEdit: will do eager

[Infinity 324]

All this RC and FA stuff is exhausting.

QFT

Town games:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p8778079 (was a hydra but I was the main poster. this is the hydra blitz I was referencing earlier)
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p8598661 (also a hydra...and I was also the main poster)
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p8495081

Scum games:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p8410999
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

[Infinity 324]

So many active players. I'm not used to this! I guess I'll just do my part by keeping up and jumping in when I think something was missed. Gin is the person I find myself agreeing with most here though. I'll start with that

Eugh, feels fake

How can it be a legit way to try and catch a scum attacking back AND be a joke?

Oh, duh

Although I'm not sure it's AI

[Infinity 324]

I don't think they're lying about their role tho

I mean, of course not.

The question is whether they're lying about their alignment. As I said, scum messenger is a possibility.

[Infinity 324]

Cry me a fucking river, loosen up, if you seriously think doing that is AI then spill it or I'm not engaging

We are on page 7. I’m going to drill down where I can.

What is your read on Raging?

--

Whether or not I specifically intended to scumhunt off of that the information that we received from it still stands. I legit don't understand why we're having this conversation.

You not understanding is not really my concern. I’m interested in sorting your slot ASAP and talking with the much weaker link of your hydra is the best way to for me to go about it.

This is what it comes down to. What is the point that you are trying to make with regards to our interpreting my original intent with slightly varying degrees of seriousness?
Because if you can't come up with one and continue to press the line of reasoning as though it means something we will be voting you.
~Anna

You seem to have me confused with someone who cares one iota for these sort of weak threats.

Your opening was pointless IMO. It will mostly catch Town who think that “Teehee, look how scummy I can be in RVS” is alignment indicative and not realize your purposefully play that way as both alignments to not undermine your scum game. And you self-admit that it wasn’t serious. So I’m going to determine as best I can why your partner approached her early game the way she did to see if I can get a read off of her.

After Science Mafia I know you aren’t going to make the same mistake of running right at me Day 1 if you are scum. So I can’t even take this bluster as alignment indicative from your head.

Hmm

I liked the "drill down where I can" part, it felt kinda genuine and I feel like scum!magna is likely to say "there's no town motivation for not answering the question" and use that as an excuse to scumread gin.

But I don't like how many times magna brings up that he's trying to sort people, it feels LAMIST. (the "drill down where I can" is part of that, but that phrase seemed to be worded more genuinely and the others weren't so much). So overall a slight scum lean for this post.

My biggest weakness as town is I'm buddied really fucking easy. On mobile but go to my view topics and Micro Vanillish. I was IC and Pine led me to a loss so hard.

So with that being established, I'd like it if you actually tell me what you agree with or why you are okay with just going with whatever I said. I'm not accusing you of buddying I just get paranoid about these things.

Well, I don't agree with the town lean on else. I posted that before I saw it. I don't want to go along with whatever you say. And that's certainly not my plan. Part of what I meant stemmed from Alisae being super off and basically being... Difficult when to me you're pretty clearly trying to figure shit out. And that was my reason for the vote there. I didn't think it was too difficult for her to come up with examples of rc doing what she said he does all the time, but she still refused to and acted like your posts and questions are out of line when they certainly were not. She took everything you said and put her own little unnecessary spin in it, and I hated that. Like your wanting specifics, and she jumps to wanting to teach you what scumhunting is... Like wtf is up with that?

Back to the question, is a general reaction of when I'm reading through, I'm reading other players like "wtf?" and I'm reading you like "yeah def" if that makes sense.

Ok I like this post better than the first one, though scum could fake it

And don't worry about rc guys, if he's scum, I'll catch him

Really?

[Infinity 324]

Hmm, I can relate to Gin's frustration in his interactions with RS on page 5. That was painful to read.

Towny

VOTE: Spine

Townreading Gin

I haven't seen scum!n_m do reaction tests like these or even pretend to scumhunt much at all. It might just be whimsy, but more likely to come from town.

And ending RVS too early is bad and an excellent way to stall a game as scum

Did it look like he was trying to stall the game? What was your point?

Good q

lane already picked it up but thats not what I said >.>

I asked if you have a meta of being hardly pushed and getting milynched early game or not?

if the answer is not this comment - out of nowhere - is so damn suspicious. why you ignored the whole game discussions to make a comment about how you are left out?

#Elsa

Of course FA jumps on the comment that seems slightly out of place...

[Infinity 324]

But I don't like how many times magna brings up that he's trying to sort people, it feels LAMIST.

Do you feel like he's trying to sort people more, or trying to say he's sorting people more?

He seems to be saying he's trying to sort people more, because I haven't been super impressed by his questions. But I still need to read more.

[Infinity 324]

Gonna start spoilering...

Spoiler: page 10

Stream of consciousness atchup notes

-Gin is probably town for poking the beehive that is Elsa and Anna.
-Leon dodging Gin vs EA on pg 1 is scummy.
-Aella is scummy for same reason
-Reserving judgement on EA until later due to my awful record of reading them, mainly RC
-RagingSpammers is awktown
-Leonshade's posting later on did not impress me at all either.
-Definitely not trying to read Magna yet after The Thing
-i'm already skimming gg, too many posts from the same people.
-ProHawk gut town
-ignoring Not_Mafia and his shitposting, someone should vig him

VOTE: leonshade
tl;dr spam less

Not a lot of depth here but I agree/empathize with a lot of the points.

Wow this is an easy game.

Fake

At the moment Gin was annoying me cuz it really seemed to me that I was drawing things out for him that just seemed obvious to me. Like to me it really seemed like they were trying to create their own read just based off of my reasoning for the read.

Btw, I see both sides of this argument. I get why gin wanted specifics and I get why it seemed obvious to ali.

VOTE: Spine

Townreading Gin

Thats quite a jump mister!
What's the sudden change from "I'm not going to change my vote" to "he's town now."
-Ali

Actually

you're right, "i'm not going to change my vote" doesn't look like a reaction test. That's pretty scummy tbh

Spammers still town.

[Infinity 324]

Spoiler: page 11

Don't worry, Not_Mafia is getting vigged tonight.

[rant type=theory]I don't think vigs should be used as policy kills any more than lynches should be used as policy lynches. Certain players may be annoying, but a vig is basically a lynch at night so treat it that way. You need to kill scum after all. I think you should use a vig first and foremost to kill the player who is most likely to be lynched the next day, since even if the player flips town the shot won't be wasted. If you're not sure, then shoot your top scumread.[/rant]

VOTE: Elsa and ana

I site 254-257

Good vote, questionable reasoning

massenegr

lol

Snakey do you think you are the most lynchbaity slot alive?
-Ali

I believe I am often seen falsely as lynch-bait, yes. This has always been my belief on the way people see me, which can easily be shown by a quick meta-dive of me. Where are you going with these questions? I feel like they are going nowhere, and I don't want to be rude, but, like I said earlier I don't want this thread flooded more than it already is (see posts 236-250) and I will begin to ignore your questions (at least for a time, until I have more substance to post besides just an answer to your question).

start posting the notes you talked about before

I want to see them

#Elsa

This is LAMIST as fuck when he already said he doesn't want to share them yet.

[Infinity 324]

what wagon is being “diverted” from?

ooh ooh me me

How about the one they're voting

Anyway, your other points are decent.

Can I get a vote on them?

Just calling this for postgame, but I think there's a higher-than-average chance of MoI and E&A being scumbuddies. In which case we probably lost, but oh well

Oh hey so I'm a 1-shot role-cop too

Could be both town or one town and one scum I think. I actually played a mini normal where there were 2 neighbor rolecops lol (but full rolecops)

PEdit: Bye FA

I think the replace is NAI

[Infinity 324]

Catching up is boring. Someone talk to me about something

{spammers, gin}
{leon, flubber}
{aella, massive, cakez}
---------null line-------
{lane, MoI, n_m}
{E&A now RC}

[Infinity 324]

Spoiler: page 12

Once again I get the urge to townread Magna off his entrance, but at the same time I'm too paranoid about the player to do so.

Yeah I get this

I like Flubbernugget for town, asking useful questions and making useful comments.

Huh, really? I agree flubber looks town but not for this reason. (not just for the vote on E&A either)

Don't like everything leon is doing (the vote on spammers isn't really scummy but it's weak and repeating other people's reasons) but I still think he's more likely town than not. Last time I townread him for a handful of small towny lines he was town.

[Infinity 324]

How does lane get below the null line?

His first post was awkward and then he changed his tone which I found more suspicious. I did say I liked the follow up better but it's still possible from scum.

[Infinity 324]

Well I still haven't caught up so yeah I'm still on your first few posts...

Anyway, your arguments aren't very convincing...I thought your first post was fake. You say it wasn't? Ok, I'm not gonna take your word for it...I read a different tone between your first and second posts. You disagree? Ok, that's how I read it.

[Infinity 324]

@Infinity

- please elaborate specifically on why you think Sir Cakez and Aella are Town (or more specifically above the Null line).

Realize that I'm still on page 14 so my read is based off of mainly stuff up to there. Cakez's first post had a lot of points I agreed with for example leon's first post being scummy (although I townread leon after) and gin & spammers being town.

it clearly isn’t Town to say “Infinity came in and tried to derail from a wagon on his partner, let me move my vote from said wagon to someone else accomplishing exactly what I said was the motive”. In fact it should make hypo-Town RC more likely to keep voting the scum attempting to be diverted from.

ok, fair enough

Just calling this for postgame, but I think there's a higher-than-average chance of MoI and E&A being scumbuddies. In which case we probably lost, but oh well

Huh … so you’ve so easily identified us as possible partners and thus the game is lost? How do you go from point A to point B there Infinity?

Well you're both known for having very strong scumgames, so if you're both scum I find it unlikely town will win.

I'd say his posting here looks similar to Tit For Tat, where he was scum.

That's probably cause I'm replacing in

[Infinity 324]

Also not sure if this means anything to you MoI, but I find the type of shallowness you're talking about wrt aella pretty NAI. Tends to come from lazy town or lazy scum.

[Infinity 324]

Nothing for p13

Spoiler: page 14

Uh Titus this is not Titusville, you don't decide who is dying. There's 13 of us here (16 if you consider hydras).

That's not Titus you're talking to his twin brother

- Vifam

Ooh sick burns

I've been trying to figure that out myself. He is very good at faking scumhunting and doesn't display the usual tells I look for. My current plan for figuring out the difference is being extra-critical and paranoid of him, to really test whether his reads are genuine.

Yeah I do the same thing. Pretty sure this is town.

VOTE: Spine

Townreading Gin

Huh. Was your scumread on Gin a reaction test, or did you simply change your mind?

@Not Mafia:

Please answer the above.

I changed my mind

huh

@n_m, why did you change your mind on gin early on?

[Infinity 324]

Leon, I like you new avatar! Is it a pokemon? I haven't played the new games.

[Infinity 324]

Infinity can you show me a few games where you replaced in as town please

My last town replace-ins were a while ago (and I probably didn't do the spoiler-for-each page thing which I assume is what you noticed in tit for tat) but sure.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=66713
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=66474
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=66931

Could you sum up your Spammers read? (On phone since laptip is acting up, can't check your ISO).

One of my favorite towntells is when someone appears to be posting what comes to their mind without filtering it. Spammers appear to be very much that way, without trying too hard to look like it.

[Infinity 324]

Realize that I'm still on page 14 so my read is based off of mainly stuff up to there. Cakez's first post had a lot of points I agreed with for example leon's first post being scummy (although I townread leon after) and gin & spammers being town.

Forgot to talk about aella, I liked their reasons to townread prohwak early (though I may be biased )

PEdit: MoI idk what to tell you man, I've seen scum convincingly fake that style about once or twice in the past 10 months of playing mafia. So yes I do really believe that.

[Infinity 324]

To be fair, i also think its a really bad reason to townread someone, i cant say for ali but if you try to read me from my tone you will fail but with extensive meta knowledge

Ir's not tone. It's more like a demeanor. I can't really explain it well, but it's a very reliable tell for me.

[Infinity 324]

MoI, see nero cain's play in the princess bride for a good example of what I'm talking about

[Infinity 324]

Nothing much on 15 or 16, but I liked a lot of alisae's questions there.

PEdit: I'm glad someone understands

[Infinity 324]

Spoiler: page 17

This is funny because we actually have a dayvig shot

- Vifam

Dayvig:Eagersnake

...

come on guys, dayvig claims were old when I started playing 3 years ago.

@eager what do you think is town about ragingspam?

I felt the whole page 1 thing was rather townie while I witnessed it happening real-time.

Alisae and CK I have played with both of them as town and don't see or feel any noticeable difference here.

Hey Laaaaaaaane, why did you drop the interaction here?
-Ali

Because I was busy doing other things. Keep reading

@lane I can't find where you followed up, where was it?

Now that you've started posting good content, nothing actually. I do like how you're getting super engaged now and I think my early analysis of lurky scum is wrong so I'm going to rethink.

They kept doing the same awkward posts despite getting a lot of shit for them. Like if I'm RS scum and start getting a lot of scumreads for awkwardness then I'm going to want to back off and start rethinking posting, not keep hyperposting.

I like this stuff

^ question for lane

[Infinity 324]

Ok, why did you end the interaction there? What did you think of eager's response?

[Infinity 324]

Why are we having a discussion about whether someone who essentially claimed vig on ~page 10 is scum?

I didn't bother pointing out the posts, but I have a very strong townread on eager anyway.

[Infinity 324]

Wait

FA, cakez, leon, and others all apparently believe scum would claim vig early on d1 with no pressure on them

what am I missing

PEdit: I don't think there are people who can just spew BS unfiltered without it being obvious lies; I think there are people who can spew BS and make it look like it's unfiltered, and I can usually tell the difference between that and real stream-of-consciousness.

[Infinity 324]

Don't worry, Not_Mafia is getting vigged tonight.

He basically claimed vig on page 11, which guarantees his lynch on d2 when there's only 1 kill or n1 if there's another vig.

It's bad play, but he's essentially confirmed town.

[Infinity 324]

What did you think of eager's response?

@lane

[Infinity 324]

I am not, however, wrong on Gin. N_M just counterclaimed Gin. I love who everyone is trying to sweep that fact under the rug.

I love how you sweep under the rug the fact that I played in a mini normal with 2 town rolecop neighbors.

[Infinity 324]

Ok, why did you end the interaction there? What did you think of eager's response?

I focused on other things. It didn't strike me one way or another. It didn't convince me rs was town. It wasn't something I was about to go meta diving for and fact check. And i wouldn't have gotten a better answer that did convince me considering it was meta and eagers opinion. I didn't see a need to continue it. You're welcome to though.

Ok fine.

And sorry for repeating, I thought you missed the question.

Anyway, so far I feel like you're nitpicking instead of scumhunting. It reminds me of your play in the purge. I just don't see you really trying to figure people out with any of your questions.

[Infinity 324]

Spoiler: page 19

Yeah Gin is town.
UNVOTE:
I was trying to see if he payed attention to what I was trying to do and if he was scum I think he would have latched onto Snakey at that point.
-Ali

S

eriously Gin.

P

retty sure he softed vig by now

Y

ou need me to point out the soft?

R

eally Gin? Cause it was obvious

O

bvious as all fucking hell.

C

ome on Gin.

C

an't you see that stuff?

VOTE: Snakey
-Ali

Look at the bolded and tell me what you think it was trying to convey.
A Spyro CC.
But I was faking a CC to see who would jump on it and who's paying attention to detail who isn't.
Gin clearly didn't see what I was trying to do.
Therefore I think he's town.
-Ali

Haha

I don't know if this is true, but I don't think scum would do something like this

[Infinity 324]

RC, you have to know not even you can push a mislynch on gin in this situation.

[Infinity 324]

Omg! You agreed gin is a mislynch! Scumslip!!!!!!!!!!1

Nah but still RC is bluffing here

PEdit: oh now you pull out the AtE. Fuck you for blaming FA and your demotivation on me (even though FA specifically said her replace out had nothing to do with me)

[Infinity 324]

@RC I'm really glad I don't believe you, you're a terrible person if you're town and legitimately think that you get to policy lynch me every time we play together because I misread you once

[Infinity 324]

You quoted 1. Was there more? I guess you could say that's just my style then. I'd say I generally find things that seem significant to me, but may not be to other people.

Yes, I'll ISO you and find more if you want me to.

But what's with this tone change from when I explained my SR on you before? Is it just that you thought my earlier reasons for SRing you were shit and this is more reasonable?

I will say that even though I was scum in poker mafia, you seemed obvtown to me there

[Infinity 324]

Because you're not even considering that I could be town.

I am considering you could be town, I just don't see it. I gave you a chance to explain yourself but you didn't take it.

Because you think you can just come in here and say I'm scum without having any responsibility behind it.

How is there no responsibility behind it?

Because you lied about talking to people about my tells (no one actually believes you randomly talk to people about my tells.)

I never said I did, I said I read a marathon game and there was discussion in postgame about you using a particular line a lot as scum that I may have misremembered.

People who don't know fuck about me hard pushing on me because they want to prove themself or some dumb shit by lynching most cunning manipulator.
YOU DON'T KNOW SHIT ABOUT ME. EVERYONE IN THIS GAME KNOWS YOU DON'T KNOW SHIT ABOUT ME. YOU DON'T GET TO DECIDE WHAT'S MY SCUM PLAY.

That's not what it is and you know it. If there were actual reasons for you to be town, then I'd townread you. But all I'm seeing is manipulation.

Even if I'm wrong, I can't just throw up my hands and refuse to read you just cause you're good as scum. I'm legitimately trying to read you, and my read on you is scum.

[Infinity 324]

I'm not seeing everything you do as scum. I'm not doing preflip association (except for the MoI thing, but I'm not basing my MoI read off of that). I'm willing to listen to your side. I'm not even saying I'm 100% sure you're scum. I'm coming in with a reasonable read on you based on what I see in the thread and you're getting pissed at me and blaming your loss of motivation on me and claiming I'm the worst player to ever exist on mafiascum for no discernible reason other than my read on you is scum.

[Infinity 324]

No because you can't read me you don't know what actual reasons are. Infinity you have

no context

for judging whether I am town or scum. Your read on me is MEANINGLESS. Since your read on me is meaningless, your default should be to townread me because I am town 10/13 times. Defaulting to scumreading me is what a lot of people do and it's fucking obnoxious and I am not going to get mislynched here because you're too dumb to consider that you should maybe not chainsaw the fuck out of scum.

I think that you

should

feel like shit if you're town because you pushing on me is fucking terrible. What if everyone who couldn't read me called me scum every game?
Because that's a situation that we had and I got mislynched like 12 games in a row before I doubled down on venomously pushing back on everyone who did and making the game as unpleasant as possible for them. Now its your turn. And no, what you are doing is picking out bullshit and saying 'YEP THATS A SCUM RC thing'. None of it is scum RC things. Bye.

As I said before, if I saw reasons to townread you I'd townread you. My read on everyone will default to town, sure. But when FA doesn't try to solve the game and instead is LAMIST and calls every awkward post scummy, when you say things that look fake and exaggerated to me, and most of all when you are so incredibly worked up about one scumread on you and resort to AtE and discrediting and misrepping and OMGUS instead of trying to explain your side then yes I will scumread you.

I call one thing you do a "scum RC thing", and that point wasn't even my main argument. Stop misrepping and try to show me where I am wrong.

Unless you were lying about being a reasonable person in the hydra blitz, it's very hard for me to imagine that this stuff is genuine.

PEdit: thank you MoI

[Infinity 324]

Same for reading players who are very logically based and post in large volume as Town for that reason as well.

Would you not categorize RC as a “Stream of Consciousness” type poster?

Well ok

I've played with scum!DGB and have caught scum!DGB before. She is a stream-of-consciousness-type poster, yes, but more of a trolly nonsense-y type than "here's a thought here's a thought here's a thought"

Just call it gut I guess

[Infinity 324]

k boys.

VOTE: RadiantCowbells

Vig Gin, lynch Infinity tomorrow. This game isn't worth my time and I'm not putting a replace in to do my job for me.

Don't fall for this shit. He's trying every trick in the book.

[Infinity 324]

If you're scum whatever. If you're town don't join another of my games please.

The feeling is mutual.

[Infinity 324]

Ok. Lane still bothers me, though I can see him as town. Same goes for MoI. That's about it.

[Infinity 324]

I will say that I am more confident in my scumread on RC than when I started this discussion. Him accusing me of being unwilling to consider the fact that he's town is nonsense given what he's doing with gin, and the fact that he's using

every single manipulative tactic you can think of

including being a terrible person which I don't believe he is, are just very difficult for me to imagine from town.

[Infinity 324]

Gin is today's lynch.

Also this basically confirms that the selfvote wasn't meant to go through which is basically a scumclaim.

[Infinity 324]

I will say that I am more confident in my scumread on RC than when I started this discussion. Him accusing me of being unwilling to consider the fact that he's town is nonsense given what he's doing with gin, and the fact that he's using

every single manipulative tactic you can think of

including being a terrible person which I don't believe he is, are just very difficult for me to imagine from town.

This isn't out of character for RC, not saying he's town but none of this makes him scum

Does he accuse people of being unwilling to reconsider reads as town, while he simultaneously deathtunnels people? Does he misrep as town? Does he threaten to policy lynch people in other games when they misread him once as town? Does he do everything he possibly can to get a single vote off of him as town?

Not buying it.

No, I am literally just reiterating my reads on the people that you listed.

No RC. You said gin is today's lynch. When you supposedly had given up with your selfvote. You fucked up.

[Infinity 324]

No. I am not distracting from Gin.

...where is your vote right now

[Infinity 324]

Yes

I don't believe you, but ok. Does he throw up his hands and selfvote and then act like he's still trying? Think about that. If he's resigned to his own lynch, how can he possibly believe gin will get lynched? It shows the selfvote was never meant to go through in the first place.

[Infinity 324]

THE ANSWER IS YES YOU STUPID FUCK WHY DO YOU THINK NO ONE CARES ABOUT IT

...ok then

[Infinity 324]

If she has a friendly neighbor thingy then that's that.

...I thought we established that it's not an actual friendly neighbor

[Infinity 324]

I'm talking about jarjar and TwoFace

RC =/= titus

[Infinity 324]

I think that's L-1 or something

[Infinity 324]

Elsa and Anna [1] - Flubbernugget

VOTE: E&A

VOTE: Radiant

VOTE: RadiantCowbells

VOTE: RC

VOTE: RC

Yeah L-1

[Infinity 324]

RC's play looks like textbook scum manipulation to me and he'd have to be a terrible person and player to be town here, which I don't believe he is. However, it is possible he is town and it's not worth continuing to focus on him anymore. I'd still like him to die as soon as possible, but I'm willing to scumhunt elsewhere for now.

I will say though, that if you guys somehow do decide to lynch/vig gin and he flips town, you need to 100,000% lynch RC. Really confident scum players like to do that 1v1 shit because it makes them look town and then squirm their way out of a lynch later.

[Infinity 324]

"Everyone" = just n_m?

I think it's too overdone to be town though.

[Infinity 324]

Do you admit you were misrepping my reasons to scumread you? Do you admit you lied about being a reasonable person in hydra blitz?

[Infinity 324]

I think it's frankly ignorant to jump to conclusions about what your correct info on me holds without asking anyone in the game who has actually played with me whether it means anything.

1) No I don't think that I was. My point isn't that your only arguments were what I said, it's that your arguments come on a fundamental underpinning of you think that you know what Scum!RC does and does not do. You don't.

The thing is, my main reasons for scumreading you don't have anything to do with meta. They have to do with you trying to get votes off you more than find scum. Specific lines I found fake. FA's play, and I know her meta a little better. That's what you're ignoring and that's why I feel like you're misrepping me.

2) No, I think that I'm a perfectly reasonable person. I agree that I have to do unreasonable things to win mafia games on the forum; but that's because of how everyone else deals with me. See 1769. I don't enjoy this. I would love to stay calm and collected and play mafia over some tea but if I attempt to do so I would get lynched. Hence the appeal to me of making secret alts.

If you're a reasonable person then I really do not understand the claim that you will policy lynch me in games we are in together if I am town. That's not just doing unreasonable things to win a game, that's just straight up being a dick.

[Infinity 324]

But then people bitch me out and say that it's unfair that I play on secret alts and that I'm just trying to make it easier to win as scum ??? when it's actually because I want to have a relaxing game as town.
There's an immense amount of context to the reason that I play like I do and you don't know it and should know you don't know it. You pretending makes me think you're scum.

I think it's perfectly fine for you to play on secret alts, ftr.

Not knowing the context for your play doesn't mean I can't have issues with it and can't scumread you.

[Infinity 324]

S

eriously Gin.

P

retty sure he softed vig by now

Y

ou need me to point out the soft?

R

eally Gin? Cause it was obvious

O

bvious as all fucking hell.

C

ome on Gin.

C

an't you see that stuff?

VOTE: Snakey
-Ali

Look at the bolded and tell me what you think it was trying to convey.
A Spyro CC.
But I was faking a CC to see who would jump on it and who's paying attention to detail who isn't.
Gin clearly didn't see what I was trying to do.
Therefore I think he's town.
-Ali

VOTE: RagingSpammers

You tested the waters for a CC then decided to back out, I see no other way to read this.

@leon: Can you explain this more? Why not a town reaction test? And why would scum expect to get a lynch from that?

I think RS is town too

So far I'd be cool with lynching MoI/Elsa&A/Lane/massive/NotMafia

These reads aren't bad at all[/spoiler]

^ question for leon

Going to bed now

[Infinity 324]

@RC Ok first of all gin was not your top scumread when I replaced in. Second of all, if someone claims a scumread on you for shit reasons, why not ignore them or explain why they're wrong?

If I'm wrong about you, I'll learn from that and try to read you better next time. Promise. But if you're going to make it a huge out-of-game issue whenever I misread you, then yeah we can't play together.

[Infinity 324]

Don't you think you can find some middle ground between "free license to mislynch me" and "never playing with you again if you misread me"?

The points about the manipulation are taken, the points about the fake lines and FA stand.

[Infinity 324]

@RC Just because you can't respond to them doesn't mean they're not valid reasons.

And sure, tomorrow I'll make a list.

I want to say that at least for me, working things out and explaining your side is a lot more convincing than emotional shit, discrediting, etc.

[Infinity 324]

@RC Just because you can't respond to them doesn't mean they're not valid reasons.

And sure, tomorrow I'll make a list.

I want to say that at least for me, working things out and explaining your side is a lot more convincing than emotional shit, discrediting, etc.

You are saying this to someone who as scum is amazing at working things out, explaining my side, coming up with great cases but weak on the emotional side.

Can someone else verify this?

[Infinity 324]

RC I just don't get why you ignored all the different reasons for saying you are scum and focused on the one that requires knowledge of your scumplay. I even found all the quotes where I said something you did was scummy but you only focused on that one reason...

[Infinity 324]

@RC Just because you can't respond to them doesn't mean they're not valid reasons.

And sure, tomorrow I'll make a list.

I want to say that at least for me, working things out and explaining your side is a lot more convincing than emotional shit, discrediting, etc.

You are saying this to someone who as scum is amazing at working things out, explaining my side, coming up with great cases but weak on the emotional side.

Can someone else verify this?

MoI, what do you think

[Infinity 324]

Ok jeez

[Infinity 324]

Wait

FA, cakez, leon, and others all apparently believe scum would claim vig early on d1 with no pressure on them

what am I missing

Still curious about this

Still curious why you only focused on the one point of mine that had to do with meta RC

[Infinity 324]

I mean, I just thought they were scum indicative in general. But ok

[Infinity 324]

If that's the case then you have to argue that RC intentionally did them as scum to obfuscate or improve their scum game, because RC does the same things as both alignment, and they can show that

So good luck arguing they intentionally did it in other town games to obfuscate and improve their scum game

Even if that was the case, he could be doing it now to obfuscate

But uh...we'll see if he can give examples of the things I'm talking about. Tomorrow.

[Infinity 324]

Wait

FA, cakez, leon, and others all apparently believe scum would claim vig early on d1 with no pressure on them

what am I missing

Gin you were in this group dude

[Infinity 324]

UNVOTE:

I don't think scum!RC continues the AtE shit for so long when he knows it won't work on me

And his attempts to cooperate don't feel manipulative

Took a while to get here but here we are

[Infinity 324]

Wait

FA, cakez, leon, and others all apparently believe scum would claim vig early on d1 with no pressure on them

what am I missing

Gin you were in this group dude

huh?

Why did you scumread eager after he claimed vig on page 11

If everyone could start giving analysis on those players I think it would be good to start from

n_m is n_m
massive I get some townvibes from
flubber is very town to me for the same reasons as spammers and for "kicking the beehive" as cakez put it

[Infinity 324]

RC I want to know your thoughts on my unvote and gin's seeming attempts to read you

I'm still going to find those quotes tomorrow (one of which had to do with your flip on gin which felt fake to me at first)

And FA played

exactly

like hydra blitz

But somewhere behind all the bullshit I can feel I'm talking to a real guy. In hydra blitz you exaggerated that real guy and I bought it. But now you're just...being normal

PEdit: well he claimed before you pushed him or at least very strongly softed by saying he'd vig n_m on page 11, did you not notice?

[Infinity 324]

Don't worry, Not_Mafia is getting vigged tonight.

[Infinity 324]

Holy shit

I got myself nearly drunk and high (this is when I think best) and thought about all this and had an epiphany

the RC slot is a fucking lock town

Lol

Why

[Infinity 324]

You weren't voting him then, you voted him after.

[Infinity 324]

gun to head Snake is town.

I went from page 11 to until I gave an alignment statement about eager and this is what I found.

So?

...and later you called him scum...

Cakez I quote it on this page.

[Infinity 324]

I'm starting to feel like lynching lynch bait when they call themselves lynchbait so they have an incentive to stop being lynchbait.

Stop purposefully playing like shit and then saying you're lynchbait.

How do you know it's purposeful?
Either way being willing to lynch lynch bait just because they want to play like lynch bait is baaaaaaaaaad.
You're scummy for attacking their playstyle.
-Ali

If a playstyle is scummy, then that leads to the conclusion that I vote what's scummy.

If you keep dying D1 because you're shit, you soon learn to get your act together.

VOTE: eagerSnake

You don't remember this whole thing?

This seems like a policy vote but you gave other reasons to sr him.

[Infinity 324]

RC I want to know your thoughts on my unvote and gin's seeming attempts to read you

I'm still going to find those quotes tomorrow (one of which had to do with your flip on gin which felt fake to me at first)

And FA played

exactly

like hydra blitz

But somewhere behind all the bullshit I can feel I'm talking to a real guy. In hydra blitz you exaggerated that real guy and I bought it. But now you're just...being normal

PEdit: well he claimed before you pushed him or at least very strongly softed by saying he'd vig n_m on page 11, did you not notice?

RC, response to this?

[Infinity 324]

VOTE: lane

Also what do you think of MoI's vote on you

[Infinity 324]

Ok timing of the messenger claim was probably town

[Infinity 324]

RC, I'm sorry for scumreading you, maybe you can understand given the tactics you used and I didn't know you'd go to that extent as town. Not saying it's not justified, maybe it is, but at least for me it's a lot more helpful if you try to cooperate even if I scumread you for shit reasons.

[Infinity 324]

I'm starting to think of the theory that Alisae will actually not be blatantly scummy for her first scum game. I'm going into the consideration that if she is lynchbait, when Alisae rolls scum, she'll be extra careful because of her reputation of always being run up. It's weird but I think what I'm trying to say is that the recklessness comes from town and a scum!Alisae, we would find more cautious.

Maybe, I usually find with slots like those that they're either completely different and cautious or still all over the place but slightly more held back. But his play here doesn't seem to be held back at all.

[Infinity 324]

Sorry, can't do.

FA played like the hydra blitz in that she relentlessly followed up with all her questions and in that she was very quick to call awkward posts scummy. I don't remember her playing like that as town but I don't really remember her town meta that well.

Not 180ing as scum makes sense, I would never do that either.

Talk to me about lane. He seems so much more cautious this game as opposed to others where he was open and aggressive. Do you believe him that it's because this game is so much more active?

[Infinity 324]

I've seen you tunnel on people and be right, I've seen you tunnel on people and be wrong. I can't just trust your scumread on one of my strong townreads.

[Infinity 324]

I actually am leaning towards him being town at the moment. I am not really interested in a lane wagon. I will not be willing in pursuing anything besides Gin.

What, is talking about your feelings not really your style?

Seriously, I want to know why.

[Infinity 324]

And if you're wrong?

[Infinity 324]

VOTE: MoI

On to the next strongest scum player

No actually, the only time I see him really trying to figure out the game is when he specifically says he's trying to sort people.

[Infinity 324]

If you want my vote, you gotta convince me.

[Infinity 324]

Aella is dropping in my readslist since the only thing town about them is the pro hawk read and it kinda bother me that people aren't voting them since they seem like lynchbait

[Infinity 324]

No ones been really outright scummy to me yet, Lycan might have a different take on things tho

Ehh but God knows this has happened to me as town before and I have a hard time imagining it from scum.

PEdit: there's probably 1-2 scum there more likely 2.

[Infinity 324]

Town
{eagerSnake, lane0168}

@Gin Why is lane so high?

[Infinity 324]

It's the fact that he admits that he hasn't found anyone scummy just feels genuine to me.

Yep I agree

[Infinity 324]

I don't really believe in chainsaw. Or preflip associatives

[Infinity 324]

I also don't believe in using a single out-of-game example wth different players to prove a point.

Sure, scum can sometimes chainsaw, but without flips questioning a suspicion of a player is NAI for both players. Actually I thought it was one of lane's better questions.

[Infinity 324]

Because of modWIFOM I think n_m is likely town...maybe.

[Infinity 324]

I'll be waiting on the replacement, which will hopefully be Mastina

I'm not mastina, but am I good enough?

[Infinity 324]

"If you don't comply I will advocate for your death"

Ya know, threats, blackmail, things of that sort are generally held in the standard of criminals. Criminals are the scum of the earth.

Eerie foreshadowing

Turns out we have more than one town criminal in this game.

[Infinity 324]

{Snakey, Lane}

Why is lane town 0_0

[Infinity 324]

Gin v spammers paranoia fest is interesting. I think it makes sense to be TvT

[Infinity 324]

I will say that gin could be opportunistic scum. But he'd have to be essentially a god scum to be scum this game so I prefer to wait and see if he gets NKed. Like its so unlikely he's able to fake convincing paranoia, convincing efforts to get the game going, good questions, etc.

[Infinity 324]

I find the harder it is for me to explain a townread, the more likely it is to be town. I have decently hard time explaining my gin townread

[Infinity 324]

I've never been wrong on a townread where I thought "this player is town because they are", gin is almost there but not quite.

[Infinity 324]

How about the rest of the game which also townreads him, are they also his buddies?

[Infinity 324]

Because they can't justify a scumread on him out of nowhere probably

Most scum don't like to blatantly sheep

[Infinity 324]

I'm not scum, and I'm not beyond convincing.

[Infinity 324]

You just haven't given any reasons

[Infinity 324]

Well you've given vague reasons and I'm not convinced by them. But ok

[Infinity 324]

ok I'm caught up. Please answer my questions

[Infinity 324]

{spammers, eager}
{gin, cakez, RC, leon}
{aella, n_m, massive, flubber}
--------------------
{MoI, lane}

That's one too many townreads. Ok

[Infinity 324]

Eager should be above spammers lol

[Infinity 324]

Do you have a scumgame of his I can see?

[Infinity 324]

Oh yeah.

Where are you at with reads now?

[Infinity 324]

Can I have a towngame as well?

[Infinity 324]

Gin, the reason I asked for a reads list is that you don't seem to have a consistent flow of reads throughout the game, you mainly jump on wagons as they come up. At least that's what it looks like to me

[Infinity 324]

I will say that gin could be opportunistic scum. But he'd have to be essentially a god scum to be scum this game so I prefer to wait and see if he gets NKed. Like its so unlikely he's able to fake convincing paranoia, convincing efforts to get the game going, good questions, etc.

How long would you like to wait to see if he gets NKed? Because, off the top of my head, I'd kill the vig, RC, and then maybe even the other claimed rolecop just for WIFOM fun before I'd kill Gin. Why is that an important part of your current feelings about Gin?

It depends whether the other kills make sense given the circumstances. But I think gin is a strong enough townread for most players that I'd be suspicious if he was still alive in the late game.

[Infinity 324]

RC,

I'm sorry for scumreading you

, maybe you can understand given the tactics you used and I didn't know you'd go to that extent as town. Not saying it's not justified, maybe it is, but at least for me it's a lot more helpful if you try to cooperate even if I scumread you for shit reasons.

Why apologize to someone for scumreading them?

Because he was pissed at me for it.

[Infinity 324]

Frankly the fact that you even asked this after floating your weak “I think you are parnters” statement makes this feel like very weak “Let’s see if I can get something I can make look scummy” from you Infinity. Time to review Poker Mafia. At replace out I had you and your partner both in my three person scum pool. Especailly after your “Ooops, 1 too many Town reads” post. I know for a fact you have at least two too many Town reads and frankly that you Town read that many players in this game for such weak / invalid reasons makes me think you are Scum.

Ok

We have very different playstyles, and I'm pretty sure I remember townreading people in princess bride for reasons you thought were shit.

If the "tactic" you mentioned from RC was him stopping the AtE and talking calmly without trying to win people over, then sure it worked on me.

[Infinity 324]

So no, your theory, at best is a WIFOM case and a shoddy reason to, if you actually do, vote someone late game.

Maybe, it's one piece to the puzzle.

Do you think it's scummy? Do you think my suspicion of you is scummy or town paranoia?

[Infinity 324]

I do have a question not relating to me actually, have you given an opinion on Cakez yet?

Me? I think he's town. He's brought up a lot of points I agree with and I like his tone.

[Infinity 324]

Gin, I missed your most recent reads list, but I guess I just haven't seen much of a read progression from you throughout the game. You suspect spammers when everyone else does, you jump on the eager wagon, you pull out the prohawk read out of nowhere and then you suddenly have a scumread on massive right when spammers asks about it. That's my issue I guess.

[Infinity 324]

Also, why didn't you push on my slot when I replaced in given your suspicion of prohawk?

[Infinity 324]

Leon, you don't think universal townreads surviving to late game is

at all

suspicious? Like you wouldn't even look into it?

PEdit: I wouldn't base suspicions

just

on that, it is something to look out for though. And the other point is fair, I probably didn't need to bring it up yet.

[Infinity 324]

Town
{eagerSnake, lane0168}

@Gin Why is lane so high?

[Infinity 324]

Gin, I think you're missing my point. My point is not that anything in particular is wrong with your scumreads on people, it's that it's so many different people and that you didn't seem to have a big picture view of the game with reads that progressed over time, just a bunch of scumreads that popped up.

[Infinity 324]

Also I stated in my reads list that he was part of the people I needed to re-evaluate. Again, I'm super fucking transparent about my actions. These questions don't make sense in the context that they're already answered if you go do a little digging.

Oh I guess I didn't understand that part of your reads list. Fair, but I don't see why someone simply not buddying you is enough for a strong tr

[Infinity 324]

New reads would be
Town
{eagerSnake, RagingSpammers, Not_Mafia}
{RadiantCowbells, AElla Was Spine}
{Infinity324, lane0168}
Null {Flubbernugget, massive, LeonShade}
{SirCakez, MagnaofIllusion}
{}
Scum

This reads list right here looks to be like I have two below the line scum reads and 3 on null with the rest of the town being high or low town leans.

I'm missing the point you're trying to make because it's non-existent

My points mainly applies before you gave your first readslist

Vote me bitch

[Infinity 324]

What was the person of saying "vote me bitch"?

It's because I feel like you should be voting me with the way you're treating me. I think scum caution could be the reason you're not.

[Infinity 324]

Given Vifam has said he doesn’t ever get lynched (despite the “Oh, woe is me I get told I’m scum for not contributing in every game” which doesn’t track on that narrative BTW) why would you suggest they are lynchbait?

Did he say that in this game?

Anyway it's because it's obvious they aren't putting that much effort into the game.

[Infinity 324]

Did I not fucking say I'm not voting till Thursday?

Must've missed that

Fine

[Infinity 324]

"wow he's doing it SO MUCH he can't be scum" like infinity has done.

Well

After I just kept scumreading him more and more for AtEing, yes him continuing to do it looks town to me.

But my main reason for townreading him is that his actions after the AtE don't seem manipulative or apologetic at all.

I find it annoying when people don't answer my questions. What do you think of RC's claim that he's better and explaining his side calmly as scum and weaker emotionally?

[Infinity 324]

Lane I want to talk to you about RC.

[Infinity 324]

I need to look over gin and talk to lane about RC tomorrow, after I've gotten some sleep. I think it's a good idea to do this 1v1 given how confident RC claims to be.

[Infinity 324]

Is that alignment indicative to you gin?

[Infinity 324]

By the way MoI, your assessment of my reads here vs poker mafia is fair and I'll wait for you to go through princess bride before giving my input.

I like lane's and MoI's recent analysis but I feel like it's still possible from scum for both of them? Idk. Tomorrow I'll look at this game in more depth.

UNVOTE:

[Infinity 324]

Ok interesting. How much do you think we should trust RC if he's town?

Also what do you think about his play post-AtE?

[Infinity 324]

So you are reading RC and Not Mafia as lock Town then?

I do think RC is town. The inclusion of Not_Mafia is WIFOMy at best and I kinda expected Infinity to call me on it.

Interesting, I didn't think it was relevant to the point so I didn't bother

[Infinity 324]

MoI, can you summarize the main differences you see from this game? Because a lot of the things you seem to be finding are minor differences, except maybe "fewer early townreads".

[Infinity 324]

It's somewhat relevant because I gave my thoughts as I caught up, but less so than usual.

[Infinity 324]

^ I agree, especially if occam's razor says he's scum

[Infinity 324]

RC, what do you think about lane's read on you

[Infinity 324]

MoI, can you summarize the main differences you see from this game? Because a lot of the things you seem to be finding are minor differences, except maybe "fewer early townreads".

Don't criticize me for missing shit then not answer my questions -_-

[Infinity 324]

The fact that there isn’t a null category (and he hasn’t finished catching up at this stage, it was “boring” and had only read to page 11) is a pretty strong scum indicator. Posts like 1373 where he gets “Town vibes” from Massive are another example. Nothing concrete there.

I don't remember specific cases, but I probably have had towngames where I had few/no nullreads and have definitely had towngames where I townread people off of nothing concrete.

And his push and then back-off of RC I think resembles his play in Poker as well.

...in what way?

And as pointed out in my re-read he has a distinct lack of scum Reads in 1477 (and comments on it which happened twice in Poker Mafia). Infinity did not as Town have a problem finding scum reads in Princess Bride Mafia. Which is good scum play – keep your pool of people who might call you out on suspecting them for poor reason to a minimum Day1.

He’s also doing the “Hey PlayerX what do you think of PlayerY” routine ( I count at least two so far) that he did as scum in Poker.

Both of these are common things for me to do as town as well

Using such a small about of meta is fine for part of a read, but when you use it to base almost your entire read on me that's pretty damn weak. Not to mention, those games were a while ago so it's possible my playstyle has changed since then. I only brought up princess bride as a counterexample.

Speaking of which, are you sure there weren't any other times I gave townreads for reasons you thought were bad?

Hmmm … if Infinity is scum then I need to rethink my read on Cakez because this doesn’t look like how he treats partners traditionally.

What's different about it from poker mafia? Have you seen any other scum games of mine that you're going off of?

It’s been less than 3 hours since the Princess Bride review. I have other games and other responsibilities to attend to. The fact that I didn’t instantly get back to you (and Eager) given the complexity of the post involved but could make quick posts doesn’t warrant this response IMO.

Ok sorry

PEdit: The only reason n_m is above null for me is modWIFOM with the claims

[Infinity 324]

I will say that this does look like an attempt to sort me which is...better than what I've seen before from MoI but it's a pretty weak attempt and not too hard to fake.

[Infinity 324]

@leon: Can you explain this more? Why not a town reaction test? And why would scum expect to get a lynch from that?

[Infinity 324]

Huh, why

[Infinity 324]

Stream of consciousness atchup notes

-Gin is probably town for poking the beehive that is Elsa and Anna.
-Leon dodging Gin vs EA on pg 1 is scummy.
-Aella is scummy for same reason
-Reserving judgement on EA until later due to my awful record of reading them, mainly RC
-RagingSpammers is awktown
-Leonshade's posting later on did not impress me at all either.
-Definitely not trying to read Magna yet after The Thing
-i'm already skimming gg, too many posts from the same people.
-ProHawk gut town
-ignoring Not_Mafia and his shitposting, someone should vig him

VOTE: leonshade
tl;dr spam less

Talk to me about what you're scumreading about me, outside my page 1 post.

All those posts from Spammers on page 10 and not a single one I see as AI.

I like Flubbernugget for town, asking useful questions and making useful comments.

VOTE: Snake

Snakey talk to me about this.
-Ali

There's literally nothing to talk about. Troll noticed strange statement and saw the chance to troll on it and troll-ed on it.

Don't worry, Not_Mafia is getting vigged tonight.

If you're going to vig him, why are you voting for him?

That's interesting because I often have the same feeling about certain interactions (that they look SvT) and my predictions are eerily accurate even when I don't stand by them.

[Infinity 324]

Ok so I talked about his 180 on gin somewhere in the spoilers, at first I thought he was reaction testing which looked mildly townish to me, then I looked back and realized it didn't make much sense for a reaction test (so that's where the scumlean came from). Then n_m said it wasn't a reaction test at all, which just left me confused. I asked him why but I don't expect him to respond cause it's n_m.

The mod WIFOM is hard to explain. I just feel like if there were 2 rolecop neighbors the mod would be more likely to do the "unexpected" thing of making them both town than making one scum. It's a weak reason, I'll admit.

[Infinity 324]

That said, he should probably be at null.

[Infinity 324]

I skipped over your spoiled posts but I'm assuming there's explanations for this in there?

Yeah

[Infinity 324]

which made it look like his claimed guilty on Gin wasn't fake

He meant he wouldn't seriously fakeclaim a guilty.

[Infinity 324]

You could've helped along the process

But if you're going to pretend to be Fate and have me make my cases for you, then fine...

Actually I'm still not convinced on gin though. Tonight I'll try to go at his ISO from an unbiased perspective.

[Infinity 324]

@lane So just to get this straight, you think the nitpicking is a normal part of your playstyle as both alignments, but your tone has changed for you from your normal tone as either alignment?

[Infinity 324]

@cakez Can you explain why hunger games made you think gin could fake his play here? I didn't read the whole ISO there but he seemed much different.

[Infinity 324]

@gin Can you elaborate more on why you refrained from voting RC until he said he had a guilty on you?

[Infinity 324]

@RC Why do you think gin bothered pushing you & FA, especially early on

[Infinity 324]

I guess I feel like he would've gotten the sense that you weren't a good target to pick on at some point. Why didn't he just say "the reaction looks genuine" or something and then unvote?

[Infinity 324]

Do you think he realized later on how threatening you are and that's why he did go at you as hard?

[Infinity 324]

Ok

You guys may be right that my reasons for townreading RC are bad. I just expected him to say the things we wanted to hear and...just actually do something to defuse the pressure instead of the AtE which didn't seem to be working. It's possible my expectations of his play are off though.

I don't like that he stopped commenting on people's reads on him, but maybe that's cause he just wants to focus on gin...

[Infinity 324]

Gin I don't get your read progression on RC

You thought E&A were scummy but didn't want to vote them because of their claim? And then you voted him when he jokingly claimed a guilty on you? And now he's scum?

[Infinity 324]

The daycop claim wasn't serious...

[Infinity 324]

So what was your read on RC when you were arguing with him?

[Infinity 324]

Gin, I explained to you clearly that the role wasn't able to prove itself as town...

Also yes, I do think RC was doing some acting but I don't think he was level-headed throughout the whole thing and I don't see how that's related to the guilty being a joke...

[Infinity 324]

Ok fine

But I don't understand what was a tossup about them since you kept pointing out town things about them and not scum things

[Infinity 324]

Cakez, can I get a readslist?