Open 670: Near Vanilla (Over)

[Creature]

Votecount 1.11

Votecount 1.11

[0] Lil Uzi Vert
[0] BlueBloodedToffee
[0] lucca261
[0] MagnaofIllusion
[1] KainTepes - Riley Cake
[0] Lowell
[0] Hiraki
[0] Riley Cake
[0] Toto
[6] Sesq - Lil Uzi Vert, Music Box, Hiraki, nebula, Lowell, BlueBloodedToffee

[L-2]

[5] nebula - Elena Fisher, Hawk, Sesq, KainTepes, MagnaofIllusion
[0] Music Box
[0] Elena Fisher
[0] Hawk

[0] Nolynch

Not voting: lucca261, Toto

14 players are alive, therefore 8 votes is the majority.

Deadline: (expired on 2017-02-13 13:10:00)

[Music Box]

Nebula voted Sesq at 133. He OMGUSed me at 346 and retracted it at 403. So Nebula hasn’t voted “three different players”. And no, he doesn’t get credit for Hellfire’s RVS vote.

Oops! Yep, you're right about that first vote being HM's, not Nebula's. My notes let me down there. But he certainly didn't

retract

that scumread on you; just moved his vote back to Sesq.

Meanwhile Sesq has voted Toto (84), Nebula (144), Elena (765), Hiraki (783), and Nebula again (963). Every vote move after his first Nebula vote as been while she is either the Top or Second wagon. Check through the Vote Counts yourself if you like.

Yep, four different players like I said, two of which were sheeping Toto. (That's three sheep votes if you include following Toto back onto Nebula, which I didn't earlier.) What was your point here?

Want to fence-sit on Lowell harder? So you think he “went back to review his ISO” in this game as Town and came up with a player not in this game as a Top scum pick as Town? Really?

Yes, I'm fence-sitting here. Maybe slightly on the town side of the fence. Are you saying he is more likely to make that mistake as scum? I don't think so. It's more likely to be non-alignment indicative. I just had a bad vibe from his post.

[Elena Fisher]

Get to this another time

[Toto]

Lucca. Time to vote.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Same for you Toto.

And Riley.

[Toto]

I will vote after Lucca.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Lucca.

Time to vote.

Time to provide content and reads for three scum suspects and any Town reads with reasoning.

FTFY

--

MoI, chances of Sesq and Nebula being town?

Part of me wants to make the smart ass statistical answer but I will pass on that.

Both of them? Maybe. It isn’t outside the realm of possibility that I’m wrong on Nebula and he’s just bad scummy looking Town. But I don’t see why you are seeing Town in his ISO. Can you point me to where you think you see Town motived posting? Like-wise Sesq’s posting looks Town to me for reasons I can now link – Karnos’s Nightless Vengeful Mayhem. Sesq was Town there and I misread her play and helped push for the Day 1 Vengeful lynch that ended up Vengekilling her.

If I’m wrong on Nebula and Lowell is scum I absolutely think that either Hiraki or Elena (or both) are scum with her. His “suspicions of me” coincided with when I moved my vote to Hiraki and started to push Elena. Feels like a chainsaw.

--

So, here's my maga problem, in a nutshell.

He's trying to casually call his OMGUS attack on me as some principled vote (which, hey, where was this before I called him scum?). Then instead of just leaving it there as a (mostly pointless but) largely harmless post he needs to clarify his LAMIST motivaitons with the last sentence. And he accuses me of being too careful? Yeesh.

Note what Lowell does say here and what he doesn’t. He throws down some buzzwording (that I’m OMGUSing when clearly that’s not the case, that I’m LAMISTing) but avoids answering how as Town he “forgot” his Townread on Elena in the same minute he called her Town or how his scum list includes a player not in this actual game. It goes to classic scum misdirection – if you can’t justify when your scum mistakes are identified you try to change the narrative and never acknowledge you’ve been busted.

--

Yep, four different players like I said, two of which were sheeping Toto. (That's three sheep votes if you include following Toto back onto Nebula, which I didn't earlier.) What was your point here?

The point is that Sesq’s play is much more likely to be Town than Nebula’s. I mean extraordinarily so. Sesq is a top wagon. Yet she’s not playing in a manner that says “Self Preservation” is her top priority. She’s willing to question and poke at a wide variety of players asking questions. Even looking at Town reads. And moving her vote when keeping Nebula a viable counterwagon makes much more sense as scum.

You keep saying “sheeping” as if that is some scum-tell. Do you think it is?

Yes, I'm fence-sitting here. Maybe slightly on the town side of the fence. Are you saying he is more likely to make that mistake as scum? I don't think so. It's more likely to be non-alignment indicative. I just had a bad vibe from his post.

I think it is clear as Day that he’s more likely to “forget” his strong Elena Town read in the same minute as he makes another post saying she is as scum. Because if he is honestly getting reads then he doesn’t forget it literally 59 or fewer seconds later. Read 923 again and tell me there is any Town train of thought to his play there.

[Toto]

Happy B-day Magna!

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Nebula and Sesq are where they are in my reads based on their early game discussion - I believe Nebula came out of it looking much better.

Sesq has a lot of instances where he says things like - 'I don't know what I was thinking', 'I can't really explain it now' and 'Oh yeah, that was really bad posting from me'. Those types of comments don't sit well with me because it's a cop-out from explaining his reasoning.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Sesq has a lot of instances where he says things like - 'I don't know what I was thinking', 'I can't really explain it now' and 'Oh yeah, that was really bad posting from me'. Those types of comments don't sit well with me because it's a cop-out from explaining his reasoning.

Funny because I want you to look in Nebula's ISO see the large number of times he refuses to elaborate on why he thinks Sesq is scum. I wasn't kidding about him making comments like "My convincing case - I'm Town and Sesq is scum". If you think Sesq is bad for that I think your Nebula read is due for a retrofit.

Have you read the whole game? Since you are basing this on Nebula looking better in the very early interaction I'd like to know.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

No, I haven't read the whole game yet. I think I stopped around page 20.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

If there is something in particular you want me to look at I'm more than happy to - just leave a link.

[Lowell]

@magna, I don't know where you're going with this. Yes, I forgot my townreads. I actually

did

ISO myself. I'm in multiple games and I can't remember offhand the status of each one without reading back. That doesn't make my reads "fake". And, again, you're the guy saying I'm more polished when I'm scum. So what's your point here?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

But you ISO'ed yourself and then produced the wrong names...

You can't have got games mixed up right after ISO'ing yourself...

[Lowell]

Well, turns out I can. And I did.

[Lowell]

Your alternative is what, that I wanted to keep my elena townread a secret?

[Toto]

The alternative is that you are lying about having reads at all. Scum don't have reads. They know.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@magna, I don't know where you're going with this. Yes, I forgot my townreads. I actually

did

ISO myself. I'm in multiple games and I can't remember offhand the status of each one without reading back. That doesn't make my reads "fake". And, again, you're the guy saying I'm more polished when I'm scum. So what's your point here?

Nope this isn’t flying. You wrote 889 where you called Elena “clear Town to me”. AND IN THE SAME EXACT TIMESTAMP MINUTE you write 890 where you “forgot” that Elena was a Town read. The level of stupidity you are implying in doing so as Town I do not for a second believe.

Same with “I ISOed myself to get my scum reads and came back with Chaos who isn’t in this game”. It belies logic that you posted 1017 and managed to post 1020 two minutes later with a scum team of myself, Chaos and Sesq. There exists no single game that you could have “mistakenly” ISOed yourself to find those scum reads as this is the only game I am in with Sesq and I’m not playing any with both you and any player named Chaos.

Occam’s Razor says that you are scum fabricating your reads and that’s why you screwed these things up.

[MagnaofIllusion]

VOTE: Lowell

Screw it. Flash wagon this scum. BBT I am counting on you to move your vote.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: Lowell

[MagnaofIllusion]

6 more votes people ....

[Lowell]

The alternative is that you are lying about having reads at all. Scum don't have reads. They know.

I get that this game is taking forever and going nowhere. But you can't be this lazy.

[Toto]

Why am I being lazy?

[Sesq]

VOTE: Sesq

Sesq, why was there no push on Toto/Kain after disliking their jump onto the Nebula wagon?

First of all, that was over a week ago, and there has been a lot of new content from them since then (well, at least for Toto, Kain still seems trolly and unreadable.)

Second of all, both those votes could come from town seeing my post and just agreeing with my reasoning.

Third of all, I wanted to see what Neb would react like with a wagon at them with actual reasoning behind it.

You're voting me for one tiny thing that happened 10 days ago. What even.

Nebula and Sesq are where they are in my reads based on their early game discussion - I believe Nebula came out of it looking much better.

Sesq has a lot of instances where he says things like - 'I don't know what I was thinking', 'I can't really explain it now' and 'Oh yeah, that was really bad posting from me'. Those types of comments don't sit well with me because it's a cop-out from explaining his reasoning.

Yeah, you shouldn't base your reads off of early-game stuff, the later the better in terms of evidence. As for the points where I have been like that, it's because I said something moronic and unsubstantiated and I want to label it as such. I make mistakes, and I'm not going to try to hide the fact that I have. If anything it's scum play to try to cover it up, which isn't what I am attempting to do.

No, I haven't read the whole game yet. I think I stopped around page 20.

R E A D T H E E N T I R E G A M E

As for the Lowell flash wagon, I think we should move back to Neb, as I don't feel super confident on Lowell, but I would be willing to compromise.

[Toto]

Sesq, summarize your case against Neb. Please.