Open 675: Pick Your Power X/Y (Game Over!)

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i mean i agree it's a bad case and i completely disagree with it

but idk maybe the logic makes more sense in his head?? i dont really associate kts with logical cases and he's not a lock townread but i'm willing to give him botd here

can you bms on which scumreads he would work as partners with? just so i can assess the validity for myself

[gigabyteTroubadour]

btw i'm supposed to pull all-nighters today and tomorrow so if you see me online send me something to rile me up kthx

i'd declare v/la but deadline so i'm just going to try to check in during the day

[gigabyteTroubadour]

hwhwtat

im vetoing that sorry

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i'm not tring him

[gigabyteTroubadour]

GUYS I AM VT.

IF YOU DONT BELIEVE ME INVESTIGATE ME TONIGHT!!!!

rolecop only gets "vanilla" so you could be a goon

and a cop has a lot of better targets

so uh

can you go into why you think it's kts/alban/lyon

[gigabyteTroubadour]

also who are you tring

still @momo

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Has anyone said anything about why Dave is town?

for me at least it's more of a "status quo townlean" in that he's posting what i would normally expect from him as town and i'm just more interested in lynching other slots

titus interactions also read as town to me

the pyp in theme park is my meta reference for him

also my all-nighter is starting like as soon as i'm home which will be in like an hour

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i want to lynch alban still but im not comfortable with that scumread completely and want to sort other slots but davesaz doesnt rly interest me as one of those slots today

i.e. i might swing around to momo if i dont like his responses to my questions, otherwise i'll go back on alban

[gigabyteTroubadour]

why not?

i can get nullreading him i guess but i dont see him as town

[gigabyteTroubadour]

hey friends i have a split second hahahahahahahahahshhahdjjshskmsis2g

VOTE: alban

mechanically momo is better (i agree w dave) but bigger wagon i want 2 die

will try to keep an eye on the thread but dont expect heavily analysis until d2

momo who are you confident is town?

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Wat bigger wagon you are talking about, Giga?

2 votes > 1 vote

though now it's a different story i guess

dunno i'd only deadline lynch momo now i'm not sure if i like how the wagon grew but his reads feel uh... contrived? rather him than spade

like why us 3 momo? i get me i guess though i think thats a bad reason to tr someone at deadline considering we dont want to nl yet so really anyone should be jumping on a wagon not on a strong tr - but why tr dunn and me and not lyon?

btw i think bang's last post was town djsnendjfiebdb

[gigabyteTroubadour]

VOTE: momo
Inviting an investigation tells me this is probably scum PGO. If not see my previous post for reasons.

actually this is the only momo vote i dislike

pgo read seems like a stretch to me imo

[gigabyteTroubadour]

?

explain?

[gigabyteTroubadour]

aight.......

[gigabyteTroubadour]

momo at 5 votes, alban 3

[gigabyteTroubadour]

yeah i know but

hdhdhhdhdgdhebeurirbr

[gigabyteTroubadour]

part of me wants to ask for an extension but idk if i'll use it

ftr im still in c r u n c h t i m e mode irl so im not going to be useful until d2

if i need to move my vote and im online i'll help bc im not OPPOSED to momo i just dont like it as much

also l-2

i'll hammer i guess

[gigabyteTroubadour]

-____________________________-

[gigabyteTroubadour]

this whole thing was incredibly stupid gl

[gigabyteTroubadour]

:/

[gigabyteTroubadour]

it's like reads have to be static

[gigabyteTroubadour]

wow it's almost like a fuckton of shit happened during a dl wagon that made me change my read on my slot????????

holy fuck

[gigabyteTroubadour]

*on a slot

[gigabyteTroubadour]

u no what, i am done with this stupid game.

VOTE: momo

I will flip VT.

Transcend, I enjoyed playing with you.

yeah i guess this is nothing penguin

as is the fact he was just flashwagonned

[gigabyteTroubadour]

yup you're right penguin

[gigabyteTroubadour]

VOTE: killthestory

we should be lynching on the wagon today imo. wagonomics make me think it's a two-scum wagon considering that whemeplay is conftown, I'm town, and that dunn and lyon are obvtown. kts/alban i think is an unlikely team but one of them (probably alban) is scum I think.

VOTE: PenguinPower

that jump onto me for not liking the wagon composition was terrible so i want to start here

[gigabyteTroubadour]

also fyi spade knows what schadd_ took now so the theory that he was scum baiting a watcher/rolefishing is dumb since he doesnt need to do much to figure that out

[gigabyteTroubadour]

also fyi spade knows what schadd_ took now so the theory that he was scum baiting a watcher/rolefishing is dumb since he doesnt need to do much to figure that out

unless he took ub/rc but idc what it is i just wanted to point out this is likely the case

[gigabyteTroubadour]

davesaz also is a good vote but i want schadd_ to talk to me about him

[gigabyteTroubadour]

he did what i think is fishing before any of the top 3 claimed

davesaz or spade?

[gigabyteTroubadour]

yeah the townslip

i'll look again at spade but the only thing i'd call rolefishy that he did were his interactions with you and like

when you're that high on the draft (and if spade is scum he's the highest in the draft out of all scum) it's still pretty easy to figure out who has what via wagoning so i dont think direct rolefishing was necessary

[gigabyteTroubadour]

and if spade is scum he's the highest in the draft out of all scum

yikes

are you claiming scum with spade? thats common sense based on associatives

[gigabyteTroubadour]

btw are we counting asking for a claim at l-1 as rolefishing

[gigabyteTroubadour]

and if spade is scum he's the highest in the draft out of all scum

yikes

are you claiming scum with spade? thats common sense based on associatives

the better question is are

you

claiming scum with spade

no it fucking isnt oh my god

spade makes 0 sense as scum with you or titus???¿??? and you two are the only people higher than him in the draft

[gigabyteTroubadour]

btw i arguably rolefished constantly in 649

i was town

[gigabyteTroubadour]

WhemePlay (6): bangthemafia, Transcend, PenguinPower, Dunnstral, Killthestory, davesaz
Spade_Ace (4): WhemePlay, alban, Titus, schadd_

i dont think a spade scumteam kills whemeplay here btw

also the whemepkat wagon comp has only 2 townie slots (dunn and trans)

§

this basically

[gigabyteTroubadour]

**whemeplay

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i mean i agree but idk tf what this townslip schadd is talking about is and i want to at least hear him out

Actually maybe not? watcher fears

has anyone actually picked watcher in this set-up

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i'm at

{lyon, dunn} - locktown
{trans, schadd_, spade} - town (i think schadd_ pushes me harder this page as scum)
{kts, titus} - townlean (titus wagon i think was supported by the same ppl as wheme and momo plus myself and lyon, probably not scum)
everyone else is scummy unless i forgot someone

[gigabyteTroubadour]

yeah {alban, davesaz, bang, pp} is a good lynchpool

[gigabyteTroubadour]

that actually does make sense

that vote was still a reach though but i can live with not lynching him today

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Actually maybe not? watcher fears

wouldnt doctor fears make more sense btw

[gigabyteTroubadour]

join me on pp? do you disagree with any of my reads?

[gigabyteTroubadour]

also how do you guys feel about asking a vig to claim if they shot whemeplay?

like what if we have a doc/rb that stopped a kill...? everyone's assuming scumkill i just realized

Dunn what are your thoughts on Alban?

oh yeah forgot about that; i want to know this too

[gigabyteTroubadour]

my "dancing" absolutely makes sense

[gigabyteTroubadour]

momo had weird reads, so i thought he was scummy but wanted his explanation

a bunch of slots then voted for him and none of them were townie so i started to dislike the composition

what doesnt make sense there??

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Because it wasn't linear. You bounced between liking it and not liking it. I've already quoted the posts.

not denying that but why is that scummy? i didnt like momo's posts but his wagon was bad, when that happens it's a natural response to waffle

Dunn what are your thoughts on Alban?

Pretty neutral, I don't remember anything they've done

I don't think I want to vote there over other people

yesterday you were really assertive about not lynching him though iirc

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Subject: Mini Normal 1850 | The Penguin Mafia | Endgame

Also ep is guilty of trying to sell a case on giga
Giga can be really hesitant at times and is very transparent about her read changes
Scum always try to exploit this and write her off as an easy scum read....it's almost a scumtell at this point

sagely wisdom from kraska btw ive been using this as a fairly accurate scumtell lately

ep was scum

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Hi Titus

Can you talk to me about your reads?

I like PP as town, particularly his reactions here.

I am willing to sheep on davesaz. I gotta be wrong somewhere.

explain? i can agree davesaz is scummy but I think schadd_'s argument was good enough for today

we could also compromise on bang i guess but i think pp's push is worse and would rather vote there

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Actually that's not true. Some of the "NKA" related posting is bogus. Not sure whose.

why make an empty fos like this if you're not even going to explain what you're talking about.....

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Wouldn't hurt to think about what I said though. Is killing a tracker really that unusual?

A bit.

When role =/= alignment and whemeplay was still mislynchable and there's 3 scum left it's not my first choice in kill

i get that you're busy but it'd be nice to say who specifically you dislike from that convo

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i dont get 1853

agree that davesaz is getting lynched at some point as a projected ml if he is town or is scum but like

¿¿?? voting him after saying that isnt jibing with me kts

like i feel like you're voting him out of... i guess obligation rather than actually scumreading him?

can you clarify for me? sorry

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i dont get 1853

agree that davesaz is getting lynched at some point as a projected ml if he is town or is scum but like

¿¿?? voting him after saying that isnt jibing with me kts

like i feel like you're voting him out of... i guess obligation rather than actually scumreading him?

can you clarify for me? sorry

wrong

im voting him because he's a very likely candidate for the nk but i guess i was pointing out the small possibility of scum pushing the easy ml on him after targeting the town tracker pr to force the mislynch after eliminating that specific pr

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i read that post like 5 times i still dont get it

[gigabyteTroubadour]

ok wait

so

davesaz is a likely candidate for a nk................................. and there's a small possibility scum are pushing him for the easy ml............... and that whemeplay was possibly killed to frame him....................

how does that transition to a vote on him

like your vote has way too much "he could be town!" but it also doesnt make sense from a scum perspective it's just incomprehensible to me

[gigabyteTroubadour]

penguin i feel like you should be voting me? am i not your top scumread?

Hi

hey

[gigabyteTroubadour]

OH

ok that makes far more sense

but then that begs the question of like.... why point this out w/o letting things run their natural course to see if there's actually scum doing what you would do as scum?

[gigabyteTroubadour]

what else would i have expected

that just seems counterproductive but ok...

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Tldr this day

bruh

what do u think of penguin and davesaz.......

it's not

i mean my instinct is that you pointing it out would make scum more concerned that someone is watching to see if the davesaz wagon grows too quickly or something and thus push another angle for today as a result? correct me if i'm wrong

More things on the page before this, but here's part of my thoughts.

Fair enough though. Maybe they just wanted to kill the tracker anyway.

Town. This is in response to someone saying bad kill, will need to back up a page to see who.

idk that was a terrible kill bc it was such an easy mislynch

Scum often downplay the kill choice. But KTS talks like this a lot so it's weak.

also how do you guys feel about asking a vig to claim if they shot whemeplay?

like what if we have a doc/rb that stopped a kill...? everyone's assuming scumkill i just realized

Dunn what are your thoughts on Alban?

oh yeah forgot about that; i want to know this too

Town thought process.

Pedit: KTS talking this angle makes me think he's trying to talk town into mislynching me. But I have a known soft spot for scumreading people who do that, so I don't trust it.

with the pedit what do you mean? has scumreading that not worked out for you in the past? from your pov i think kts is a good fos

[gigabyteTroubadour]

im not playing both sides??? i'm trying to understand your thought process

i tr you but i cant grok your mindset

by saying you're a good fos from davesaz's pov that means that his points against you at least are coherent - says nothing about anyone's alignment

[gigabyteTroubadour]

://///////:////////////:://////////

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i dont get this at all

at this rate im probably just going to post exclusively using bitmojis tbh

lol is bitmoji still something recognize i still have the app idek why

[gigabyteTroubadour]

lol is bitmoji still something people still

ebwop i woke up at 2 am realizing i made a typo what is my life coming to

[gigabyteTroubadour]

VOTE: spade ace

gbt, can you talk more about why lyon is town

i was going to say that he was the only people this game making sense but uh

1889 is certainly a post

[gigabyteTroubadour]

idk his rvs stuff was town too

like the same way your opening in 1769 was

i'm not sure how fakeable it is

[gigabyteTroubadour]

what if whemeplay was a vig shot and scum failed their kill

also no one has claimed the shot yet

[gigabyteTroubadour]

oh i misread 1889 lmfao??

i thought he was saying scum!schadd kills wheme 100% of the time lmao

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i feel like if lyon were scum he'd shoot titus or schadd_...?

like wheme was mislynchable

[gigabyteTroubadour]

wait

VOTE: schadd_

werent you voting for momo eod and suspicious of wheme? why are you trying to fling shit at rc for having the same reads as you?

://

[gigabyteTroubadour]

he might

but like???¿?? i want the question resolved

[gigabyteTroubadour]

eh

that's fair

UNVOTE:

i want titus to talk to me about pp still

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Giga, who is "he" here? I assume Spade. If you are talking of his advice to Schadd at the beginning of the game, at that time he didnt have the information about other slots. So what is your point?

that it's silly to scumread him for it

I believe titus's claim, but spade could have drafted ub/rc and not gotten it so he wouldnt know schadd's role

I don't have a strong case on you, bang, besides the fact that I think the people who were on both titus and whemeplay were wagonning them for claims. voting you as a compromise might help me better establish a read on you based on who follows and reacts

[gigabyteTroubadour]

none of alban's foses are lynchable except maybe spade :/

[gigabyteTroubadour]

man every time i think about my reads this game i have an existential crisis

dunn other than kts who would you wagon this game rn

titus i need u

[gigabyteTroubadour]

hoh man that vc

titus talk to me about town!pp?

im not really sure where to vote. my townreads all seem to conflict with each other and something is off.

PenguinPower has been prodded.

wasnt he vla for the weekend

[gigabyteTroubadour]

im not really sure where to vote. my townreads all seem to conflict with each other and something is off.

like im thinking wagons can never seem to go through this game because town players are either active and don't trust each other, or mostly lurkers. maybe some combination of both (lurkers and distrustful?? the horror.... tho i doubt im the only active townplayer)

like idk even i had the thought earlier today that i might be getting pocketed hard by lyon here but i went over that iso and i still feel ok about it... same w dunn (like i skimmed his large dance iso again to look for a reaction picture and g o d i still townread it) ://.

but like schadd and lyon want to kill each other and i think it's tvt. kts is kind of a lone wolf. titus townreads pp. schadd townreads davesaz and srs spade. dunn is the closest person to me in terms of reads yet hes voting kts :/

basically we need unity but im not rly sure how to get it together

VOTE: alban

how do we feel about going back here?

[gigabyteTroubadour]

<3

yeah i know this is going back on my scum-on-the-wagon thing but i thought about it it doesn't really matter and this is probably the mechanically better move anyway because of pr shenanigans

[gigabyteTroubadour]

<://;:::;::///

sorry??

[gigabyteTroubadour]

man

idek

i dont think that replace out is ai but if you scumread both lyon and me wouldnt this be a good oppurtunity to push against us??

[gigabyteTroubadour]

oh

huh. yeah thats something

i hope everythings alright alban, sorry if i frustrated you :<

spade what do you think of alban?

[gigabyteTroubadour]

dave idk if you know how to answer this (or even want to i guess) but can you briefly describe the difference between your scumgame and your towngame?

i glanced at one of your scumgames and already have an answer in my head but if there's some nuance i'm missing then that would be appreciated

Or Titus is scum and she wants tracker but I don't think she is.

if they wanted a tracker via UB (???¿? ub is dumb for scum) then theyd take rolecop which does the same thing but better

spades point makes sense though

[gigabyteTroubadour]

VOTE: Titus

I think replace out is nai, and I'm not considering it. Really didn't like their reads when they came back so I'm willing to vote them now

Titus doesn't feel town.

is the bit under the vote for titus or alban or titus? luv replaced out so idk but im assuming it's alban?

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Did you just link to another game that you were town in to prove you make cases instead of quoting anything in this one

I don't understand how you plan to win this game if you are town

i mean

he's town

[gigabyteTroubadour]

my reasoning for scumreading alban is well documented throughout the game :/

idk why people seem to suggest otherwise

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Tracker can't find the prs worth finding in this set-up, e.g. UB and vigs.

cop and doctor is all that it can find that matters and you dont really need to know WHO is targetted for those most of the time

also if she went with dunn's plan but then "changed it at the last minute" thats basically a scumclaim

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Tracker can't find the prs worth finding in this set-up, e.g. UB and vigs.

cop and doctor is all that it can find that matters and you dont really need to know WHO is targetted for those most of the time

also if she went with dunn's plan but then "changed it at the last minute" thats basically a scumclaim

1. Why is that? Are vigs immune to tracker? I thought they are not.
2. And i didn mean scum would want to know WHO is targetted. I meant by knowing WHO was targetted by their target, tracker can quite often guess the exact role of their target. Wont the scum love that extra info?
3. So u suggest Dunn's plan should be implemented?

1. They aren't, but they're both one-shot so there are instances where a scum tracker would confuse them with a VT.

2. Yes, but rolecop is more to-the-point without the need to guess. I dont see any use of the extra info a tracker gets (maybe pre-emptively preparing for a guilty from a cop...?)

3. it's up to titus. it's only scummy if she says yes and then backs out or if the entire town agrees with it and titus disobeys. i dont really care what she does personally

[gigabyteTroubadour]

GigabyteTroubador looks helpful but could be scum.

talk to me about this too?

and alban town too - i get relating to him being a town indicator but i dont see it

[gigabyteTroubadour]

-__-

[gigabyteTroubadour]

PP is town feeling like he is not allowed to have an opinion. Been there.

i dont get this?

i thought it made sense at first because he's pushing me and thats going against consensus but i cant really find emotional engagement that suggests he feels shut down?

also is your vote on kts policy or a scumread? last few posts before it make it unclear

[gigabyteTroubadour]

penguin usually is sassy like that in general?

i mean i guess it comes from people disagreeing what he might see as an airtight case regardless of alignment - so leaning town from that makes sense

i'm probably going to take a look at how he pushed people as scum then

i'm just worried i'm going to have too many townreads now that dave is in my lock-town pile

[gigabyteTroubadour]

davesaz, dunn, lyon

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i put dave in my lock townreads since on a meta read he's obviously town

he pushes cases and talks about rl way differently as scum

[gigabyteTroubadour]

have you played with davesaz before?

yes, once and he was town

i said earlier he feels similar but i had him as a strong tr early in that game since i had a hood to sort him in, i probably would have scumread him without it

i knew nothing about his scumgame until i decided to make the comparison earlier

trying to do the same w penguin but his iso's kind of sparse conpared to his norm as any alignment so it's hard to make a strong comparison

[gigabyteTroubadour]

is that what we're calling it these days

[gigabyteTroubadour]

pp who is your top scumread?

i'm feeling you might actually be town here (your scumgame feels more polished generally? it's harder for me to tell because i misread you last game and if I dont accurately get a sense of your townplay then it's hard for me to meta but I tend to read your scumplay as townier than your town play so) and that scum arent supporting the push vs me either because scum dont want me dead (if lyon is scum would be my best guess here) or because they're afraid of heavy pushback (lyon getting killed may point too many fingers, him being alive centralizes pressure onto my wagon and no scum wants to be pushed by town!lyon :/

it's just kinda difficult to feel good about my alban vote when that slot is vacant and when some people reacted to his ro as town - he's still my strongest scumread but i need to engage with a slot when i lynch it, you know?

i also dont really see any issues with kts's reactions here and am kind of unsure why everyone else seems to see something else ;/

[gigabyteTroubadour]

giga, who do you think we should be focusing on right now?

I'm kind of lost

I don't want to lynch: Giga, Lyon, Spade_Ace, prob not schadd, transcend


VOTE: alban

??

yeah that's good i basically have the same list + davesaz pp

pp who is your top scumread?

i'm feeling you might actually be town here (your scumgame feels more polished generally? it's harder for me to tell because i misread you last game and if I dont accurately get a sense of your townplay then it's hard for me to meta but I tend to read your scumplay as townier than your town play so) and that scum arent supporting the push vs me either because scum dont want me dead (if lyon is scum would be my best guess here) or because they're afraid of heavy pushback (lyon getting killed may point too many fingers, him being alive centralizes pressure onto my wagon and no scum wants to be pushed by town!lyon :/

it's just kinda difficult to feel good about my alban vote when that slot is vacant and when some people reacted to his ro as town - he's still my strongest scumread but i need to engage with a slot when i lynch it, you know?

i also dont really see any issues with kts's reactions here and am kind of unsure why everyone else seems to see something else ;/

I don't like you right now...top scum read. I'm trying to reconcile my feelings with everyone else right now, especially given our newbie game. It was hard for me to turn around my thoughts, but us moving past it was essential in the win. Only reason I'm not voting you.

I'm wary of Titus...she doesn't know me, but is reading my scumminess as town. I don't know why someone would do that.

Dunn is probably scum, just because. Don't want to lynch today though.

I want to sort Trans replacement because I have a tunnel-town read on him usually, but I sorta don't want to right now.

I'm cool with alban going, but maybe a replacement would be good for the slot.

^Kinda my stream of thought catchup.

p-edit

I don't like KTS, but I can't pinpoint why. Don't think I've played with him before either.

Would helping me expand on my thought process when I was "dancing" around the momo wagon help you read me? I feel my thought process was pretty transparent but I feel like we just instinctively scumread our opposing playstyles. I'm starting to townread you again so I'm hoping that's the best way to work through this.

Talk to me about scum!Dunn? he's basically my most confident tr so far?

other reads i think are OK - kts for me is a meta read and i can understand a scumread from him. who do you think are his likely partners? again i usually read him associatively when i read his games because of how closely he likes to tie himself to partners sometimes.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

yeah i was about to put down a readlist but i realized i had too many townreads

ffs

is anyone still scumreading spade? i think that's the slot i want to reevaluate in that case

[gigabyteTroubadour]

]

this post basically sums up my thoughts wrt this game

[gigabyteTroubadour]

reading 647 rn - i was in the hydra game and i kind of remember this point?

as for my read -

i usually find that dunn is lurkier/less invested as scum, the hydra game comes to mind as a strong example as does strahd. like town!dunn has this energy and investment to solving the game that i think is really difficult to fake in general, the closest i've seen him to imitating it was in the waltz game recently.

like in the hydra game he and hs basically coasted through by just calling your slot scum and rc & fa did everything to not get that slot lynched until deadline so that they can just deathtunnel and do nothing. here i'm getting a completely different impression and i think he's actively fighting to break up the apathy we have

just to clarify - by final VC you mean day one's right?

[gigabyteTroubadour]

ok wait pp what's your point with dunn in 647...?

i read his ISO in there and he barely interacts with your slot, he calls you scummy once in the beginning and then townreads you after he scumreads the DixC/Annienen bloc but never really discusses it. like i can get that he thinks you're an easy ml (as in the idea makes sense but there isn't much to say "this is how he feels") and might not want to be a part of it as scum but i don't really see how the meta supports it here?

like if anything it mirrors the town example you linked more than the scum example i recall.

like in the hydra game he and hs basically coasted through by just calling your slot scum and rc & fa did everything to not get that slot lynched until deadline so that they can just deathtunnel and do nothing. here i'm getting a completely different impression and i think he's actively fighting to break up the apathy we have

Rude (dunn) may have "coasted" in his scum game given the amount of posting by Lewd (hs), but I am comparing Rude's posting regarding my/karnos' slot in his scum game given my limited experience with Dunn as town.

it's not just post count

it's things like tone, depth of reads/thought process (dunn never really shows the depth of his thought process in-thread but like i Get it), that make me think town. karnos (it was more karnos that was scummy iirc) is really easy to surface-level scumread imo and that slot never really advanced a more nuanced read than that one. here dunn's thought process evolves in a more reasonable way by dunn standards.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

thanks for that, i was going to do one like that too but that saves a lot of effort

i mostly fos you because i tr everyone else but that's probably going to change because i have to be wrong on everything else

alban is really the only slot i sr

[gigabyteTroubadour]

This is frustrating because everyone is discrediting my reads on KTS and Alban and they are the two people I'm most sure are flipping scum and there's never really been a case given for either of them as town.

This feels like one of those games where I'm right and everyone else is wrong but I can't get traction on anything.

with kts he just doesn't read like an alban partner to me

it's like hey let's go down the usual suspects list and lynch people who get lynched every game.

also this basically made me move my vote want to reanalyze

spade i'm not really sure what i want to ask you to sort you which is why i want to know what people are scumreading you for again. tbh i'm leaning town on you again but with little being done my reads just become much more volatile so idk

[gigabyteTroubadour]

also this basically made me move my vote

and

want to reanalyze

when people read my posts do they ever realize how often i just like

forget words

dave can you point out spade posts you feel are manipulative?

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i forgot why i tr titus today?

lyon do you think titus/bang is possible?

like ive never seen titus throw that much shade at a partner but ive only seen her as scum once

[gigabyteTroubadour]

So that suggests Wheme/Giga is where I am off and i highly doubt giga scum.

wheme already flipped town so uh

and can you please explain why alban is still clear?

[gigabyteTroubadour]

If i undestand correctly not everyone drafted a role, meaning that the people in the 1's probably dont have anything right ?

everyone drafted a role but not everyone got it

example, your slot drafts, say, cop. since someone at the top probably got it first you'd just be vanilla

if im correct, shad should be town too

yeah basically where i'm at

what page are you on?

also my phone is about to die so i'll be back in a bit just for your fyi information

[gigabyteTroubadour]

**you draft cop/redirector not just cop

picking between the two comes after you actually get it

i have a secret read that tells me that the alban slot is prob a mefia, i wont share the read tho and its just 50% but 50% is a better odd than random lunch

feel free to wagon it with us then

seriously i feel like this game has been delaying just bc it hasnt flipped

what page are you on?

honestly, i just checked some vc's from the mod iso and istumbled upon the end of d1 and start of d2, i read like 2 pages

ah ok yeah i do that too

and to answer your question yes

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i'm at

{lyon, dunn, davesaz} - locktown
{cloud, schadd_, spade, pp} - town
everyone else is scummy unless i forgot someone; alban doubly so than the rest who are more "meh"

the "how long can my phone go at 1%" readlist

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i think matt was joking lol

basically both are meta reads

dave is easier to explain - he's way more tryhard as scum and tries to advance the game with wallcases, town dave usually sits back a bit more and does his own thing (he's easier to sort 1v1) - will link games for ref if needed

dunn is the opposite in that he rarely gets invested in the game as scum (the dance game was an exception imo) and his posts usually have more... energy? as town. also wo meta he's like one of the only slots doing anything vaguely pro-town and isnt making shitty foses and at this gamestate i'm ok tring that.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

alban

nancy (1): gigabyteTroubadour

guys

kts get off davesaz
dunn get off pp
schadd_ get off spade

they're all town

[gigabyteTroubadour]

no it's 3 vanilla ones unless they take prs

[gigabyteTroubadour]

dunn get off pp

Why do you think I'm town now?

because this feels exactly like last time and your D1 was town sans your weird push on me (do u still want me to explain my thought process bc it's not that weird...)

[gigabyteTroubadour]

my reads are flexible

[gigabyteTroubadour]

my reads are flexible

ee. poor word choice

my reads are flexible

As they should be...but there should be some reason behind the shift. Why not express it? Can you point to it now?

oh i thought i said? i re-isod you when you pointed out this is basically like last game and realized i was wrong

[gigabyteTroubadour]

So when's giga getting lynched

PenguinPower is my top tr

i isoed penguin and i agree

like pp i know trans was joking but i thought i he was legit bc i also had you as a high tr

idk i guess i tr titus and poe got to you? im not even sure anymore i havent been taking notes this game

[gigabyteTroubadour]

titus claims universal backup and lyon comes in with a meta case explaining that titus would never pick rolecop/UB as scum because that's her favorite role as town or something (not real at all just a theoretical that closely paralleled last set-up)

...btw

[gigabyteTroubadour]

also dunn what was embarrassing about that post...? do you disagree with a read

...btw

i Understand what was going on here now

[gigabyteTroubadour]

lol titus i thought i was policy but i guess now being an 'annoyance' constitutes me as scum

how funny is that hmm

also giga pointed it out but no one really pressured titus for calling dead town scum wtf??

VOTE: alban lets get this and titus soon pls

What are everyone's thoughts on these two posts?

it could mean anything tbh

i want to tr them but let's just flip nancy first

[gigabyteTroubadour]

So that suggests Wheme/Giga is where I am off and i highly doubt giga scum.

titus talk to me about this

[gigabyteTroubadour]

im pretty sure it's titus/alban though

[gigabyteTroubadour]

So what do you want me to do giga

i want this day to end in a nancy lynch

[gigabyteTroubadour]

want to see everyone weigh in on the dueling counterwagons before i give thoughts on nancy's last few posts

and i actually need to read nancy's last few posts but it's rly late and i just finished a shit ton of work looooool </3

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i can read minds nancy. you hold a block in your perception that i cannot pass with any words

oh man

kts idk what uve been doing the past few days but

oh man

just dont read my mind promise me that

[gigabyteTroubadour]

UNVOTE: nancy

yeah this feels wrong

nancy, I still really think Titus's townread of your slot is weird. Can you talk to me a bit more about her?

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i really should have waited for schadd to post :/

[gigabyteTroubadour]

with 2159 pp is the only slot i can believe is scum (besides lyon hoodwinking me hard) on titus tbh

like i'm really confident davesaz is town

Also you shouldnt really judge someone alignement on the conclusion they get off their reads but if you have really good knowledge about those players, the thought process is much more important and AI

yeah this

which is why it's bothering me pp never said anything about me wanting to explain what he found weird about my reads ://

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Titus and I have history and we both read eachother pretty well usually, like I'm pretty sure it's just a mutual soulread that started right from our first newbie game together.

i guess that makes sense with your read on her

but i still don't get why she was townreading your slot so hard before your rep in. like the wagon she said cleared your slot was an rvs wagon basically? nor does your draft seem particularly town and i'm not sure why she would think as much

i initially assumed buddy interactions but the possibility of wk is there too i guess? if it's tvt i have literally 0 clue who scum is

Emotional Titus = town!Titus, basically. She can fake emotion as scum but not consistently or very believably.

i'll look over her iso again and see how emotional this is

ranscend always has weird reads though.

i started playing mafia at the same site transcend did, our reads are alike and valid 90%+ of the time

isnt nancy from em too

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i'll look over her iso again and see how emotional this is

like i suppose the stuff w lyon is believably emotional but tonally/emotionally she feels the same as the one game where i subbed into transcend's slot and (i'm trying not to dredge up bad blood sorry) she reacted to his insults - like the emotion was genuine but everything else outside of it was still stiff

i don't think i'm that good at reading titus (she was incredibly obvious town in our last game but i don't think she can obvtown the same way here even if she is town)

i still dont feel confident in kts scum - i guess the possibility he's playing against his anti-bus meta is there but he strikes me as a principled person who wouldn't deliberately do that

can we try compromising on bang? that's where I'm finding myself so far

@giga you from em ?

i used to lurk there every so often but no

community too toxic and i found i could just play the game irl or on another chat site (gamma emerald's homesite) until i found myself here

@KTS lol?

I don't know what she saw in VCA / draft. I'm not really from EM unless you consider playing there for 2 months before utterly hating it and wanting a real mafia experience being from EM

from our last game i remember nero gave meta on titus where if she seemed to have inside info and work with it she's generally scum - at the time it was true because she had knowledge of there being a vig in the set-up despite there only being 1 kill

like without any elaboration on the thought process here that i've been trying to get out of titus i have zero clue how she can come to the conclusion of you town

idk i just dont get it

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i still dont feel confident in kts scum - i guess the possibility he's playing against his anti-bus meta is there but he strikes me as a principled person who wouldn't deliberately do that

yo i just reread the mafia pt where i got this meta and it was just for that specific game lmao

later i'm going to re-evaluate but like that basically kills my kts townread lmfao

pedit: VOTE: kts

[gigabyteTroubadour]

oh man

[gigabyteTroubadour]

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=68243

^ this is the game i was referring to

i mistakenly gave titus a lazy d1 tr for her interactions with my pred that game

bang's kts townread seems kind of lazy i guess but i'm basically in the same spot as you - like i'm waffling on him but i (used to) have stronger townreads elsewhere

pedit: UNVOTE:

hghghg

[gigabyteTroubadour]

VOTE: kts

[gigabyteTroubadour]

giga i thought you were a good player

who told you this im shit

also i was about to justify my vote but i completely forgot why i even put it

UNVOTE:

man

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i feel like i havent been sorting spade through his posts though

[gigabyteTroubadour]

if anything, i'm more than likely to be pushing a mislynch on someone that a lot of people are scumreading, but that never seems to occur to you.

oh this is why i voted you ok

it makes sense though

do that then

i mean i was townreading them and i still am

[gigabyteTroubadour]

@Giga,

help me bus

bang or kts then.

Me/Pers was tvt so, at least 1 scum is off the wagon. That's bang or kts. Alban is also cleared due to draft and wagons. Spade was a likely rolefish. Tracker was killed bc tracker.

Help you bus? Is that a freudian slip?

this is like the only not-town thing in spade's iso

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Would it make you feel less paranoid that I'm hoodwinking you if I told you that I was really hyped when you obvtowned at the start because we finally rolled town together?

i'm not that paranoid dw

Let's chill on the votes and give Titus a chance to sink her teeth in the game.

fine by me

[gigabyteTroubadour]

titus can you try to explain to me why you tr the alban slot as strongly as you did before nancy's replace in?

nothing about picking 10 strikes me as clearing, for example, and the alban wagon generally has stalled beyond that one time it got 4 votes (and today as kts's cw but i'm more curious about the thought process pre-nancy) so i still dont really get it

[gigabyteTroubadour]

titus can you try to explain to me why you tr the alban slot as strongly as you did before nancy's replace in?

nothing about picking 10 strikes me as clearing, for example, and the alban wagon generally has stalled beyond that one time it got 4 votes (and today as kts's cw but i'm more curious about the thought process pre-nancy) so i still dont really get it

VC wagon analysis.

i was hoping for an explanation of the vc wagon analysis because i'm interested

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Gane stall w just 1 wagon d1 = wagon is on town

i dont think this is how the alban wagon actually happened though

like it was a short-lived rvs wagon from memory? i'll double check

[gigabyteTroubadour]

also bang the intention of a compromise wagon is to see how it goes to derive a read from you - if i scumread you or townread you i would present a case but the truth is i really don't know

in a vacuum i'd have a shit ton of townreads so the bar is kind of high for me to decide which one i really feel like sticking to - davesaz, lyon, dunn i'm like 100% confident about while pp and cloud are in the 98% sure category - everyone is fair game for me at this point even though i can point out a lot of townie things in everyone else's play

i think the best way to sort you is via wagon but i'm not going to wagon you unless i think i have to

[gigabyteTroubadour]

yeah i don't think the game was abnormally stalling in the pages in the early 10s? i think sans myself and a few others this is a relatively low-activity playerlist (maybe replacements will shake that up but like davesaz and pp are generally low activity players, same w alban and bang it seems which is fine) so nothing seems ODD about the slightly slower pace of this game

[gigabyteTroubadour]

@giga which slot's lynch (irrespective of whether you feel the slot is town/scum) do you think would give town the maximum info?(vca based or flip wise) ....for me this person is schadd....for one i can verify his draft slot....second i dont know why no one is pushing for his lynch....i think if schadd was town, then scum would have actually pressured that slot a lot more....but there is almost zero pressure on him....and it is not like he comes off as an obvtown guy.....

nancy slot probably

schadd does seem like an obvtown kind of guy idk but this game he's kind of townie

[gigabyteTroubadour]

How is this Town exactly?

i mean tbf that was before i said it was the only non-town thing in his iso but if you read my iso i pointed out a few questions that i thought were generally town from spade

plus the vt claim was town

[gigabyteTroubadour]

fine with not lynching titus today but why not nancy @rc?

[gigabyteTroubadour]

alright

VOTE: kts

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i thought the spade case was dumb and i still dont really scumread him

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i'm still skeeved out by how interconnected the titus and nancy slots are though

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i'm still skeeved out by how interconnected the titus and nancy slots are though

Nancy's my second biggest TR after alban.

if this was i joke i actually did laugh

but you know theyre the same slot right

[gigabyteTroubadour]

what about kts dunn

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Its just 3 days to deadline and we already have 4 wagons. If you are starting a 5th one, it will be great you accompany your naked vote with some kinda case!!??

this tbh

[gigabyteTroubadour]

fine with not lynching titus today but why not nancy @rc?

why wouldnt you lunch mefia today?

can lynch partners/explore countertheories

but really i want some posts that titus promised and until then my vote is here

[gigabyteTroubadour]

but really i want some posts that titus promised and until then my vote is here

You know that voting her might give you some leverage ?

titus strikes me as one of those ppl who prefers space to produce decent content but we

VOTE: titus

[gigabyteTroubadour]

btw i rescind my tr on lyon

i mean i get why but

[gigabyteTroubadour]

but really i want some posts that titus promised and until then my vote is here

You know that voting her might give you some leverage ?

titus strikes me as one of those ppl who prefers space to produce decent content but we

VOTE: titus

Hm, thats not really a good explanation considering that you didnt only

not vote her

you were voting

her biggest counterwagons

but im pleased with the coherent behaviors aka you voting titus

i mean i think there could be a world where it's nancy/kts or something so voting for kts in that case doesnt seem super farfetched

tbh it's probably just nancy/titus and i'm overthinking it but idfk

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Ive never see in mu life titus posting being that bland and plain, i also never encoutered a wild mefia titus so this is my first time

yeah this

[gigabyteTroubadour]

he's exactly the same as scum

well not exactly but really similar

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Cloudkicker might be 3rd mefia.

Long shot giga.

Scum seem scared of me and nancy.

oh man

@dunn ask titus to redeem her one (1) meme usage i think it's time

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Please tell me you didnt investigate me.

shouldnt you know that he didnt investigate you if you're town??

VOTE: spade

[gigabyteTroubadour]

yeah probably?

UNVOTE:

but if schadd is a cop he probably investigated spade so idk

[gigabyteTroubadour]

reaction seems inline to what i'd expect from someone who confused rolecop tho idk

[gigabyteTroubadour]

if you have a guilty just out it imo

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i have tried and generally failed to have coherent and reasoned thought about: bang, penguins, titus, gigabyte

not anyone here

also prob not alban

kts?

[gigabyteTroubadour]

why would you investigate a tr

[gigabyteTroubadour]

oh right

[gigabyteTroubadour]

cloudkicker looks quite the town, as did transc (excepting eod1). exciting

is eod1 for trans really enough to warrant an investigation?

i'd just pick alban tbh

[gigabyteTroubadour]

like i assumed schadd wasnt a cop bc no one makes sense as a target unless he was rb'd

[gigabyteTroubadour]

btw if yoy were rb'd you claim as much rn

that means we have no doc rip

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i do




when he's townie

[gigabyteTroubadour]

trans's scumplay is really obvious though

im pissed at newbie me for not sring him in 646 lol

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i really do not know who to flip :/:/

[gigabyteTroubadour]

davesaz lyon locktown fuck u if u think otherwise

dunn has to get off his vanity otherwise town

cloud is probably locktown

schadd and spade are more ok than others; schadd is probably the cop i guess?

who's left

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i dont make good posts like ever so

[gigabyteTroubadour]

why would you investigate a tr

[gigabyteTroubadour]

probably

[gigabyteTroubadour]

wait was it me

[gigabyteTroubadour]

is doing a doc/rb massclaim from kts-to-schadd a waste of time

[gigabyteTroubadour]

also it's either bang/penguin imo

VOTE: penguin

[gigabyteTroubadour]

dunn did u pick doctor

[gigabyteTroubadour]

yeah basicallt just dunn and nancy have to answer imo

[gigabyteTroubadour]

*basically

[gigabyteTroubadour]

shouldnt it be last to first

as in kts-schadd

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Yeah, town should be happy if cop investigates them and gets to out the result, not be concerned about it.

I think Spade_Ace is scum by behavior, but I'm in no hurry. It's possible schadd_ investigated someone else and we should definitely wait for that reveal.

Pedit: explain how town would be concerned about a cop investigation, especially town who has been scumread and wagoned?

scummy

no

[gigabyteTroubadour]

FIGHT ME GBT

too tired

also dunn that's normal massclaim order dhdjebfjdje

[gigabyteTroubadour]

lets lunch tituusssssss

titus is literally the one person we KNOW wont flip rb.......

[gigabyteTroubadour]

schadd got a no result on lyon and lyon claimed not-commuter

ergo schadd town = scum roleblocker, penguin is highest in the draft of doc/rb candidates so most likely to be said rb

if possible having people low in the draft claim not doc/rb pick

[gigabyteTroubadour]

if there's a doc they cc right now

[gigabyteTroubadour]

lets lunch tituusssssss

titus is literally the one person we KNOW wont flip rb.......

How do we know that?

conftown bt picked ub/rb, first pick obv picked cop and wheme flipped. poe means she picked it

[gigabyteTroubadour]

*vt

[gigabyteTroubadour]

it's not ub/cop it's redirector/cop and ub/rolecop

titus is ub/rolecop as is spade (titus got it)
schadd is cop/redirector

we start claims from kts up

[gigabyteTroubadour]

momo was also ub/rc

[gigabyteTroubadour]

iirc titus claimed UB or at least heavily softed it to the point it's accepted that that's her role but i'm ok w not listing that as her role if we're only doing conf stuff

but yeah that chart is basically why we probably should vote pp?

as soon as kts logs on he should claim whether or not he picked doctor/rb, then dave, then u, etc.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

OH

ohhhh

oh ok

[gigabyteTroubadour]

ah ok

lol @ trying to push that as a scumslip tho that was obvious w persivul's claim and urs :/

[gigabyteTroubadour]

penguinpower, can you be, like, interesting at all? else i'm gonna start calling you pencilpenis

reminds me of my boyfriend amirite guys

[gigabyteTroubadour]

man

u guys dont know how perfect that was >:/

cloud i really think we should aim for rb this day phase because we basically know they exist and if they dont doc should cc asap

[gigabyteTroubadour]

^ that

[gigabyteTroubadour]

but a claim of "rb/doc but vt" helps because we lower the poe pool of rbs :/

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Umm, I believe we're claiming

not doc/rb

, not what our role is / isn't.

is this a not doc/rb claim

[gigabyteTroubadour]

but a claim of "rb/doc but vt" helps because we lower the poe pool of rbs :/

Arent PRs complementary to VTs? Bringing VTs out in open also helps scum PoE PRs for their night actions, right?

yes

which is why we're not claiming vt UNLESS it's that specific role pair

finding scum is 100% times more important than keeping prs alive and the most important one (cop) is already outted