Newbie 1779 | Spring | Endgame

[mhsmith0]

Looking back around 570, I'm reminded of another reason why I suspected dark, as the whole thing looked pretty fake on his end, as if he just couldn't figure out a villagery way to back out of a bad vote (or just wanted to stay with a bad vote to pursue an agenda). Oh well, guess I was wrong on that one *shrugs*

[mhsmith0]

I've seen plenty of such games.

Also Darklyn is a scumfuck

windblown opinion? there was some omgus stuff earlier too, though that's just generically pretty null

[mhsmith0]

I'm inclined to believe you, given how cautiously and passively you've been playing this game.

I can see where Darklyn's post came from, if he's thinking about it psychologically, like "oh so he doesn't think of himself as town, maybe scum?" but calling it a "big scumslip" is reaching. Kinda wish smith hadn't said anything. If Dark had kept on pushing it after oldwin's response, then I'd start worrying.

RC pushes darklyn, lemon passively goes for defense. Plausible partners distancing? I feel like the newbie side of that would be doing a generic distancing behavior even more than the veteran side would be...

[mhsmith0]

Avoiding getting lynched as town isn't always possible, if it was surely town would just win 100% of the time, so I think it's better to include yourself in the equation

also that bolded part doesn't feel right, it feels more like an excuse to say oldwino is scum than anything

Goes back to shading him here though. Hmm...

[mhsmith0]

Alright, I'm comfortable with that logic.

VOTE: Darklyn

L-1

This wasn't a particularly good vote from grey, fwiw. I remember having a bit of a gross "maybe I'm wrong" feeling about dark, and idk that my explanation there was really good enough to convince someone who wasn't feeling the wagon. At some point maybe someone should weigh in on whether they thought that my explanation ought to have been good enough to convince anyone? I look at it and I'm not super sure that it ought to have been.

[mhsmith0]

Most likely to least likely scum imo, might change when I do re-read
mhsmith0 > Radiant Cowbells > Dogwatch > lemonater > oldwino > mastina > Grey

FWIW, this was an incredibly weird spot for grey given the bandwagony L-1 vote, but since conftown I guess it doesn't matter.

[RadiantCowbells]

I can vote Grey instead =]

[-Grey-]

Alright, I'm comfortable with that logic.

VOTE: Darklyn

L-1

This wasn't a particularly good vote from grey, fwiw. I remember having a bit of a gross "maybe I'm wrong" feeling about dark, and idk that my explanation there was really good enough to convince someone who wasn't feeling the wagon. At some point maybe someone should weigh in on whether they thought that my explanation ought to have been good enough to convince anyone? I look at it and I'm not super sure that it ought to have been.

I was more interested in your response to the second question than the first.

[mhsmith0]

Nope.

1) Day one won't necessarily be a mislynch.
2) Real Tracker gets use of their role before they counter

If this were d2+, I'd agree with you. But it's not.

FWIW, in a tracker/bp setup, this is bad for reasons that I think are obvious. In a jailkeeper/bp setup, the jailkeeper could get roleblocked and shot n1 (if you lynch the goon side of the pair), which is obviously bad, but if you lynch the roleblocker side, it gets pretty close to autowin.

Doesn't matter since there were no cc's (and it's far too late even if there should have been), but this was pretty much just wrong on grey's end.

[-Grey-]

Not really.

Scum in a bind have nothing to lose by fishing out another PR.

[-Grey-]

Doesn't mean they should succeed.

[mhsmith0]

I can vote Grey instead =]

I mean, FWIW I'd rather that I leave for the night at L-2, cast an L-1, and you have to decide if I'd actually put you up to it if I was scum (unless you're leaving soon?).

blah blah blah posturing, but then again if you're town and I'm scum there's no loss at all to the exercise (whereas if I'm town, it forces attention and ownership much more on the hammer vote, which is just generally a better thing for reasons that I think are obvious).

[mhsmith0]

Not really.

Scum in a bind have nothing to lose by fishing out another PR.

I mean, you get why it's bad to do that kind of plan given tracker/bp/goon/goon right? I don't want to spell it out in case scum are kinda ignorant of the obvious counters to that strategy, whereas a day one scum lynch in exchange for the other PR dying that night is *always* protown.

Having to run the table at 6v1 with a clear on the board and a scum flip is REALLY hard for scum to pull off.

But since there was no CC (and if there should have been it's too late today to matter anyway) I'm just going to assume the claim is true.

If I got mislynched mainly because the PR decided to be selfish and survivalistic, then oh well I guess.

[-Grey-]

I mean, you get why it's bad to do that kind of plan given tracker/bp/goon/goon right?

How is that a given?

If Darklyn is fakeclaiming, it could be JK, BP, RB, goon.

If that's the case, it gives the JK one night with their role before they counter confirmed scum.

[mhsmith0]

Mastina's V/LA hurt this game a lot.

(not that i'm blaming her)

I'd say her play when she was around hurt more, though I was the other half of that wall war so I guess I don't have much of a leg to stand on *shrugs*

[mhsmith0]

How is that a given?

If Darklyn is fakeclaiming, it could be JK, BP, RB, goon.

If that's the case, it gives the JK one night with their role before they counter confirmed scum.

Maybe that was badly worded. IF it's tracker/bp/goon/goon (i.e. presuming that's the case), then it's really bad.

If it's a jk/bp/rb/goon thing, i'd say that in general you still out, plus you can announce who you're jailing if it's a rb lynch, and then if it's a goon lynch you jail the bp claim (just in case).

IMO that's still better than waiting, plus a day one claim battle forces scum to bus or be on the wrong wagon for minimal gain, and it opens up potentially interesting interactions.

Also claim battles are just fun (well for town anyway)

[mhsmith0]

Like, if there's a tracker who didn't claim just in order to survive, I'm going to be pissy about it in dead thread for what I htink are obvious reasons. if it's a jk who didn't claim, then MAYBE it's ok, but still probably should have claimed when there was still time.

[mhsmith0]

Grey, unless you're sure that I'm town you should probably hammer me before you leave for the night. Self-hammering is AIDSy, and I'd like at least enough respect given to me to not force me into that horrid position on fucking day one of all things.
(blah blah blah smith is posturing scum who's playing WIFOM games )

[mhsmith0]

doens't really matter but i'll dump out a

VOTE: lemonater

vote I guess, for the record if nothing else (maybe I'll re-read and change my mind, but I've already blown a good chunk of time tonight and don't see anything better). Kinda see lemon/rc as a reasonable possibility, obviously it would be pretty funny if I'm totally off base and it's something like grey/oldwino or the like (I don't think mastina is remotely on target enough to have nailed the scum team of DW/OW and I'd be much more inclined to think she hit 0/2 than 2/2, though obviously my perspective here is somewhat biased )

PS RC is probably more familiar with my town meta than anyone else here (mini 1782 for part of day 1 before he subbed out, open 635 on final day after I subbed in, open 642 for part of a game day after I subbed in and before he/postie subbed out, and the Memories game he modded). BoP is an obnoxious thing in basically all scenarios, but that said I feel like more than anyone else here town!RC really SHOULD have understood my alignment, all the more so after I got pushed pretty hard in the game he modded for (IMO) pretty dubious reasons (including the always fun "why haven't you obtowned yet" )

[mhsmith0]

I don't feel sufficiently confident in this game to lead a lynch.

I can't tell if this was honest or posture-y. I can't remember a town game from RC where he was this disengaged, and I'd strongly suggest that people push him both to explain his disengagement and see if he can find reasonable comparison points. They may very well exist (I won't consider myself an RC expert), but at the very least there needs to be a substantive look there (and mastina's horrific "I strong town read RC for his first like two pages" bit does not count as any kind of substantive look, even if I think it's kinda villagery for her to have put out that kind of a transparently bad opinion on the subject *shrugs*)

[mhsmith0]

RC was trying to, earlygame at least.

Trying in very early day one, when it didn't especially matter (very early lynches are rare), not trying later on, when it might have mattered more. Yes, excellent reason for a town read

I mean, RC certainly could be town, I'm not going to even slightly pretend he's a runaway scum read of mine, but I feel like he has a tendency to be more obvtown than he's been here when he's town, and I feel like the board basically shrugging at a town read there is kinda wierd if he is town (fwiw I think I'm better than the MS average at reading RC, but there are games where I struggle to read him and games where I'm flat-out wrong [the one where he replaced wguerts was one in particular I really thought his slot was scum from dead thread]... but I feel like town!RC would still probably have pinged me as town by now).

If he IS town, then I expect him to actually be DOING stuff with the knowledge that he's town, because in this overall game state? If it's town!RC, I feel like it really cuts down the possibilities of what scum might actually be doing given knowledge that he's town, because I guess I don't see any kind of scum plan for how to handle town!RC floating around (inb4 he's actually the tracker or something lying low to avoid a NK ... and actually just not wanting to die would I GUESS explain some of the low energy, but with two explicit town clears on the board it's weird that town!RC in that situation would STILL be low energy, knowing that scum are just going to shoot the tracker almost always)

[mhsmith0]

Dogwatch is obvtown and I'm willing to lynch anyone scumreading them.

Did you just question my dogwatch townread you insolent monkey

VOTE: grey

Interestingly, this sequence came after the "grey vs smith" bit which came after a run of ulti up to 3 votes. It's kind of loose evidence at this point, but in terms of potential motivation, it's plausible that this was pushing thigns even further away from that ulti wagon and just further dispelling attention from that idea. Obviously that doens't apply at all if ulti/lemon is town but *shrugs*

[mhsmith0]

Anyway, I feel like the wagon on me is basically bullshit, and I'm not self-hammering. I haven't played badly enough to deserve that indignity, and there's six hours left. If someone wants to hammer me and own it after I flip VT, go for it. If someone unvotes me, maybe I'll put myself back at L-1 before going to bed.

Smith out.

[mhsmith0]

PS I did ask for an extension, but I'd presume that one won't be happening. So proceed accordingly. Grey is either around or intentionally slunk away at a key moment, I guess remember that as well if he doesn't come back before EOD (and if he does then just judge him on whatever he ends up doing)

[RadiantCowbells]

If all you're going to do is talk about how I'm scum and you're not going to vote grey then lynching you is on my to-do list no matter what.