Gay Mafia 3: Trumpocalypse Now D8

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

I was replying to the post you made right above it.

But I'm talking about Serena.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Wraith isn't scummy to me at all, but I'm sure I'll get there one day. Spiffeh either.

Wraith I'm incredibly waffly on because he says things I think look town then he says things I think are scummy. This is exacerbated by the fact that there's so much fucking noise in between his posts.
Spiffster I had great feels on D1 but over the last week he's done literally dick all except complain. That read deteriorated, hard. I don't think he's scum per se but he's starting to worry me.

"Well you know nacho, I actually am just bullshitting reads. You don't think he's scum? I don't think he's scum then! I've just been so incredibley waffly on him. Heaven forbid I ever get a fucking concrete read in my life. So he says some things which are townie... and he says other things that are scummy! I won't point to any specifics because I'm pulling this read from my ass, but it makes sense am I right guys??? There's also so much 'noise' in his posts! Whatever that buzzword means, I generally have heard people use it before."

"Spiffeh well I had a p good feel about him early on. Now before you all faint from the possibility of me having a strong read, I will say that my read on him has deteriorated, meaning I stopped giving a fuck about keeping track of my reads. But I don't think he's scum. And I already said I don't think he's town. I'll be honest I don't give a shit anymore I'm near the end of my post to you nacho and I can barely fucking take putting in this nonsense effort. I'll just say he's starting to worry me so I can conveniently pull out whatever read on him later."

[Little Red Fedora]

saw some people questioning if fedora is conftown

i killed FB

fedora blocked the scum kill

what situation are they scum in again???

The one where the suggesters are scum or hijacked my karmic moonlogic car or both.

[Little Red Fedora]

We could form a support group.

I'm a premature claimer and I have been one for six years.

I hear the first step to recovery is recognizing the problem or something.

Can I have a subgroup for those who lack subtlety? It's not that I intend to but I just get stuck doing it.

[Nachomamma8]

@Wraith:
@Syryana:

I avoided the wagon because it was obviously terrible and groundless.

I didn't really like this post; don't think that it's an accurate reflection of his posting towards the FF wagon (while he did say that the only compelling reason for its existence was the Syryana post, his reaction to the lynch was to mention that lynching DGB would also be cool and also FF should claim (despite being lynched).

Yeah Spiffeh's sudden reversal on Majiffy is baffling to me. I can only guess he has always townread Majiffy and was trying to draw out "bad votes" or something but that makes no sense. Majiffy did nothing but banter and join a terrible wagon D1, and today he's done nothing but try to make PR PoE easier for scum and cover up his continued utter lack of scumhunting with boatloads of "woe is me" and self-voting nonsense.

He needs to go. Inherently assuming all Enablers must be town while suggesting they out themselves for no good reason should be more than enough to demonstrate how badly he needs rope.

PEDIT:

Bloody hell, did you miss the "see above" or are you deliberately trying to misrep me.

My top scumreads are currently you, Majiffy, Kise, and Bellsprout.

I think that a big part of why I'm townreading him to the degree I am has to do with his conviction around the Majiffy lynch and how he handles the push itself. I think that the way he handles his reads on Brian Skies and Majiffy is weird with the vote manipulator sequence (my top suspect is now Majiffy because Brian's vote got manipulated onto Fedora, now my top suspect is Brian because he got to choose, now my top suspect is Majiffy again!), but the way that the "Tammy is vote manipulator" sequence unfolded seems pretty genuine to me as far as being lost goes.

Um...fakeclaiming Cop and potentially drawing a protective role to a scum player?

I mean, I'm assuming Tammy is hoping there's a Doctor in the game since claiming without results to present plants a bullseye on her for no gain to the town.

This isn't the only example of course, but I think that Wraith's paranoia on Tammy seems pretty genuine and I like how he keeps coming back to it. The initial push very easily could have been scum trying to fit in with the anti-Tammy mood in the thread at the time, but the followups with the Mexican/Blacks fiasco, the "she's soft spoken!" comment, thinking that her role is too vanilla to fit in with an absurd setup, etc. etc. etc.; the fact that he keeps coming up with things to add to his paranoid theory (that he doesn't really have motivation to push) is what makes me town him without the reservations I have for the pushes that seem to drag on and on but never really evolves.

On the one hand, with this confirmation it means Hocho is almost certainly lying about his claim, very likely as scum. He must die at this point - he will either turn out to have been gambling poorly (either as town or scum), or Desperado will have been lying as scum beyond a doubt. This actually lends MORE credence to Desperado's claim, since if Hocho flips and turns out to have been telling the truth then Desperado is auto-lynched.

Tammy pointed this out as a concern of hers, and I definitely agree - one of the senses that I've gotten from Wraith's play as a whole is that he's thoughtful about what he pushes, and I find that a pretty shallow reason to push the Hocho wagon through, especially when people are telling him that fakeclaiming doesn't mean scum when it comes to Katsuki.

As for Majiffy case:

But yeah, moving on to D2 his initial portrayal of Enablers as "cleared town" smacked of trying to posture himself as confirmed town in the minds of other players, and his insistence that the Enablers claim has some very obvious downsides that multiple players have already pointed out. Most notably, it makes it much easier for the scum to narrow down the identities of the more meaningful town PRs; not that things have been helped by so many bloody people claiming already, like Desperado, Tammy, and Syryana (and yes I wanted to know the identity of the vote manipulator initially, but when Brian revealed he chose the target of his parked vote that fell by the wayside, since I originally wanted to know why the vote manipulator had chosen to park Brian's vote on LRF).

The premise of Majiffy's argument is two-fold. First, punishing town for lynching scum doesn't make sense from a setup perspective. Second, that the enabler's only purpose right now is being cleared via claims. His argument was not that claiming an enabler made the enabler group confirmed town (he noted that it was possible there was scum in the group), which nullifies your main concern of him trying to clear himself with the gambit.

I think that the plan overall is silly. I don't think that it was a HUGELY ANTITOWN TERRORFEST that everyone else seems to because our strongest power roles (cop + Trump) are already outed for mostly silly reasons, and I happen to agree with the assertion that there's probably only one scum at most in the enablers (although I don't believe it as strongly as he does).

The main thrust beyond your point against him here is that he's wrong, thus scum, and I disagree with that; people make bad proposals constantly as both alignments and usually think they're good proposals as both alignments. I don't think that this was a ploy to fake confirm himself as town because of the "there might be one scum in this group" stipulation, which would make that play poor. I don't think he would be overly concerned on narrowing down PRs when there are already so many juicy targets to choose from.

But yeah instant OMGUS right out of the gate on someone who is widely townread. And considering Spiffeh was shot and saved from the nightkill added more fuel to the fire. I think his initial jump to the conclusion that Firebringer was the scum nightkill and Spiffeh was the shooter was really bad, especially since Desperado had already claimed the Firebringer kill just posts before.

It's not really scummy to push back against someone who is widely townread, especially when they have a neighborhood QT (I read his posts!) that might include different interactions. The idea that Spiffeh is confirmed town because he was saved from the nightkill is wrong; Desperado probably started this, but mod confirmation was mod confirmation that they targeted Spiffeh, not that they saved him. The "firebringer was NK'ed by scum" is a bad line of reasoning, but a decently understandable one if he missed the Desperado claim. There's no reason for him to see it and ignore it as either alignment since the only thing it accomplishes it making him look silly.

Overall, I guess my Wraith townread isn't as strong as I hoped it would be; my main reason for townreading him lies in his Tammy paranoia (pushing Tammy for thinking the scumteam is mexicans would be a pretty slick push when mexicans probably aren't the scumteam) and in that initial conviction/frustration tied with his Majiffy case. I have concerns because he's probably pushing anti-town over scum a little too hard and I was hoping to get the thorough thoughtful logical Wraith that I'm used to, but burn out is a real thing and so that concern isn't huge, but still present.

[Nachomamma8]

Sorry that took so long, beautiful; I'm hoping my dilly dallying wasted just enough time for you to finish slaying your goblins and come hang with your frat brother.

[Nachomamma8]

The one where the suggesters are scum or hijacked my karmic moonlogic car or both.

How are you confirmed town when you don't have confirmation that you blocked the Spiffeh kill?

[Brian Skies]

I don't think Syryana really avoided the wagon (and think that the accusation in general are bad when we're looking at a super short and super empty day). I also don't think that Wraith did either? Again, day was super short and super empty.

By avoiding, I meant 'off the wagon.' But I get what you're saying. I wasn't a huge fan of the Syryana accusation either, which is why I didn't keep my vote on him pre-Day 2. I also remember someone accusing Vax of something which I wasn't incredibly fond of, and it's why I moved on from him as well.

Wraith absolutely avoided the wagon, regardless of whether it's because he's town who disliked it or scum that didn't want to get caught on it.

I find Wraith's "I think Brian's reads suck, thus he is scum" line of attack in the linked post is pretty crappy, and I do think he probably used too many reactionary gifs, but that's a syntax point and not actually indicative of alignment. I agree with you that overall, the post is underwhelming.

The problem I have with his post is that he starts off with 'I don't understand why people are on Brian (even now)' before he moves on to scumread later on in the same paragraph. It's like, if he's scumreading me, then scumread me. But the way he did it felt disgusting and like he was posturing in case he needed to jump off.

[Nachomamma8]

The problem I have with his post is that he starts off with 'I don't understand why people are on Brian (even now)' before he moves on to scumread later on in the same paragraph. It's like, if he's scumreading me, then scumread me. But the way he did it felt disgusting and like he was posturing in case he needed to jump off.

I'm not sure I see a world where Wraith writes out that he doesn't understand why you're getting scumread (as scum), then decides he might want to vote you and adds the second bit in. I do see a world where he initially doesn't see why you're getting suspected, finds a post of yours that looks iffy and then revisits the original townread on you and decides he doesn't like it.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Vote: Serena

I'm cool with one of Serene/ABR p much done for the day.

[Syryana]

Sorry that took so long, beautiful; I'm hoping my dilly dallying wasted just enough time for you to finish slaying your goblins and come hang with your frat brother.

30 minutes.

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: Serena

I'm cool with one of Serene/ABR p much done for the day.

So why vote Syryana over ABR?

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

I'll give Hocho a pass for today.
Cephrir down in tier list.
Kurbio up.
DBG up.
Spiffeh down.
Grey up.
Fedora up.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Vote: Serena

I'm cool with one of Serene/ABR p much done for the day.

So why vote Syryana over ABR?

ABR has funnier posts that don't make me want to get vigged and stop playing.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Oh and Vaxkiller should prob say who he's targetting.

P much it for today.

[Brian Skies]

Also what makes it come off as busy work or trying to blend in to you? At the time I remember I was trying to catch up because I missed some pages and stuff.

A lot of your comments were already said by others and didn't need repeating (blending in), and the little bit of original thoughts (if you'd call it that) was buried in a way that it was unlikely most people would notice it or engage it (it is a syntax issue, but I still find it scummy). The fact Ceph even bothered to look through it and respond to you made me feel good about him (among other things).

Ceph basically told you that BPC would probably never post, so I felt that you were unnecessarily blowing it out of proportion because other players were complaining about it too.

[bundle of sticks]

I was replying to the post you made right above it.

But I'm talking about Serena.

And?

[Brian Skies]

The problem I have with his post is that he starts off with 'I don't understand why people are on Brian (even now)' before he moves on to scumread later on in the same paragraph. It's like, if he's scumreading me, then scumread me. But the way he did it felt disgusting and like he was posturing in case he needed to jump off.

I'm not sure I see a world where Wraith writes out that he doesn't understand why you're getting scumread (as scum), then decides he might want to vote you and adds the second bit in. I do see a world where he initially doesn't see why you're getting suspected, finds a post of yours that looks iffy and then revisits the original townread on you and decides he doesn't like it.

I don't want to talk to you about Wraith unless you're fully caught up on him.

[Nachomamma8]

The one where the suggesters are scum or hijacked my karmic moonlogic car or both.

How are you confirmed town when you don't have confirmation that you blocked the Spiffeh kill?

Titus?

[Nachomamma8]

I don't want to talk to you about Wraith unless you're fully caught up on him.

I am fully caught up on him, hence the big wraithapalooza post.

[Brian Skies]

Then I disagree with you. I think that the post was written with the intention to look like a genuine train of thought or trajectory, but I don't think it is. I think a lot of his pushes later on are predicated on misunderstandings (his push on Tammy for being a voteblocker), opportunism (his sudden push on Vax as he was getting run up), or plain wtfness (see his vote on the Hocho wagon). I also don't like him causing chaos with the flavor of the scumteam (which can easily be faked), but a lot of people seem to have been having issues with that, but whatever.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

I was replying to the post you made right above it.

But I'm talking about Serena.

And?

Ohhh your post just made sense to me. Damn long night.

But nah I'm not really a controversial reads. The way he words it he throws side shade, ending up making it sounds like it's MY problem for his read. He doesn't even give a read on me. It literally boils down to "he's town or scum".

[Nachomamma8]

opportunism (his sudden push on Vax as he was getting run up), or plain wtfness (see his vote on the Hocho wagon).

This is where we're in agreement on Wraith. I do agree that he shifts suspicions pretty easily for someone with the Majiffy conviction that he had earlier, and I do agree that his Hocho vote seems overplayed.

Do you completely disagree with my points re: his Tammy paranoia as a whole and his push on Majiffy?

[Brian Skies]

I wanted more/better activity, or failing that (as in this case) a claim.

Well, Vax already checked out for the night. So why do you think you would have gotten either with a L-1 wagon?

I assumed no one would be stupid enough to lolhammer after the first debacle.

But considering how violently LRF has reacted to a post where I wasn't actually intending to throw shade on their unvote...

It's "interesting" to say the least

I'm also not really buying his reason for being okay with a L-1 wagon on Vax. I kinda feel like he wanted that wagon to go through. Also his mention of LRF here with a complete lack of a conclusion is just...?

[Nachomamma8]

The lolhammer point isn't a bad one at all.