Mini Normal 1893 - I Keep Modding Minis Ending in 3 -endgame

[projectmatt]

Epicmafia was a mistake.

Vote: Alisae

[projectmatt]

OMGUS!
VOTE: projectmatt
I don't have the real OG frog with me but it's nice to be playing with you again.

You as well, but it's a shame that you rolled scum.

[projectmatt]

Alisae was my tr ;-;

Why?

[projectmatt]

@Impoetic, who would you consider to be the scummiest here?

I wanted to get Alisae's reaction because I thought one of their opening posts was tonally kind of strange. I might have a light TR on them now.

[projectmatt]

Their attempts at scumhunting seem genuine, and match the kind of thought process that I currently have. I think you and him are most likely both town, and you're an easy target that Transcend might be jumping on, but I'm not sold on Transcend being scum yet. Is it solely because Transcend is voting you that you scumread him?

[projectmatt]

^

Do you agree with my read that Impoetic and Alisae are both probable town, or just the question I asked to Impoetic?

[projectmatt]

Cool. I don't disagree with you, Impoetic.

[projectmatt]

Unvote

Vote: Dunnstral

[projectmatt]

Unvote

Vote: Dunnstral

"what"

It's the mafia.

[projectmatt]

Do you read those posts as town? I don't.

[projectmatt]

i don't read them as town, but i don't read them as scum???

i read them as null.

also i tunneled you the last game we were in (on our home site) as scum. why are you not worried about being tunneled by me again?

I read them as null as well, but his presence in the game (as in popping in at specific times but not actually contributing shows an investment in the game but not a clear desire to hunt for scum) reads bad to me, which is why I voted him.

I don't actually remember the game you're referring to, was I scum or were you? I'm not particularly concerned about you tunneling me, though, especially because the game is in the very early phases.

[projectmatt]

Oh, yeah. I remember now. I'm still not concerned unless your scumread is totally sincere and continues on into later in this game. That said though, I don't currently have a townread on you in the first place.

Also, I have no meta on Dunnstral.

[projectmatt]

matt seems to have a lot of reads and do little with them just from a superficial pov.

What, realistically, do you think I should be doing with my reads that I haven't? This seems like a superficial read or maybe just a poor articulation.

[projectmatt]

What's your read on Transcend, Alisae?

[projectmatt]

Impoetic, are you gonna answer my question in #96?

Also, what spurred your scumlean on Alisae?

[projectmatt]

Let me know how resetting your reads goes.

[projectmatt]

ok im tripped out because #149 is actually trash, but alise has reacted super badly to the pressure in the last page or so

I feel like projectmatt is a very surface level player and I will not be getting along with him

why is that?

[projectmatt]

Unvote

[projectmatt]

why do you label 149 as TRASH

that's basically all my reads to this point summed up

the reads come off as REALLY REALLY forced to me and i have trouble believing that he has such incredibly solidified reads within 6 pages of the game,and his reasoning is super vague on top of that.

it doesn't make him confscum, but it's a bad post.

[projectmatt]

matt come on you play epicmafia you KNOW that people can develop fast reads.

but epicmafia is an inherently fast game whereas mafiascum is not, and i find people who get fast reads on mafiascum to be inherently more likely to be scum.

also it doesn't matter that some of the reads were null - im talking about the ones that werent.

[projectmatt]

Ok sure Transcend, here's my thoughts in purple -

Transcend - reads are ok, maybe town, kinda tryharding tho so paranoid of this

I view this as more non-commital than just a way to approach you. This could be a legitimate read, but surely you see that it gives him wiggle room to scumread you later in the game.

gerryoat - tryharding, probscum for it

This is a bad readbecause Gerry is barely tryharding, and the basis of "tryharding" making someone scum doesn't make sense, unless this is a very specific meta read. Even so, this seems vague.

Darklyn - obvtown

At least FMPOV, I don't see a good reason to mark Darklyn as obvious town, and it made me think he was potentially parroting off of Transcend's read.

Juri - dunno, maybe town

This is fine, even though it's vague.

Trivium - null
Crash - null
Impoetic - obvtown, this just isn't her scum play, i'd know considering we hydra'd as scum

This is also OK, and I agree.

projectmatt - scum, most posts are posturing

"Posturing" is a vague buzzword that doesn't explain anything at all, and it looks like he scumreads me largely because he sees that me and Alise are an easy pick for partners if one of us is scum.

Dunnstral - null
JaeReed - me!
nancy - null
Alisae - scum, I can read this with scary accuracy, trans he was trying to buddy you earlier and there are also partner pings with matt if you check

I think this read is trash, particularly before Alisae reacted to this thread. There's nothing about Alis's opening play in this game that indicates that they are scum, but quite the contrary. The only reason given here is meta, which is something that I have trouble buying. Meta can be valid, but it seems like a fallback excuse or something that's easy to coast on. Also, I am an incredibly easy person to paint as a partner of Alise since we've -defended- each other, wihch makes me feel like he was going for people he percieved as easy targets.

usagichan - null

if you want a free scum lynch then it's Ali, if you want to save him for later that's fine too just remember he's scum when i'm nightkilled.

I force tells like this all the time when I'm scum, so I'm wary of this.

pedit trans you always scumread me early game, i wouldn't play this way as scum so you're wasting your time

This is bad for reasons I don't think I need to explain.

pedit2 lol ok that was actually funny

[projectmatt]

that's blue

fkin fight me

[projectmatt]

oh shit transcend is scum lol

[projectmatt]

your point?

It's not a good read. It lets him out a read on a player while giving himself room to scumread them later. This is something that mafia do a lot, which is my point.

this is definitely a very specific metaread, as jae has voiced it to me before, but I think they also voiced it to gerry, so I've been torn about it personally.

Good.

hey, I had the tr on darklyn before transcend did, and no I don't think he's obvious town but I haven't seen a reason to change it and felt like he was good earlier on.

Why do you townread Darklyn? Regardless, I still think the read is likely to be forced. In particular, it's the "obvious town" part of his read that I don't like, especially since mafia try to find reads that are generally agreed upon by the rest of the players and then state them for towncred, like he might have down by calling you obvtown as well.

"Posturing" amounts to the concerns I had earlier. You think I'm town, right? I don't think that makes jaereed town at all and something about this post bugs me but the read itself makes sense to me personally.

Yeah, but the word "posturing" is like a rorschach test - it can literally mean whatever you take it to mean. The read is vague and has no substance.

if one of you gets lynched it doesn't matter that the other is the partner, and I really don't buy people strategizing this hard with early reads like this.

I don't understand what you mean by this. You don't buy players strategizing with early team reads, right? Then my point about Jae should stand.

[projectmatt]

how?

[projectmatt]

I want JR to respond to 201 and 207 before I go any further in this game

207 isn't worth a response tbh, it's just more scumfuckery from pjm

hahahaahahhaahhahaahahahaha

vote: jaereed

[projectmatt]

you're complaining about jaereed's certainty.

This is jaereed's only uncertain townread, to my recollection.

Transcend's a player to be paranoid about.

Jaereed being uncertain here isn't scummy. You just said he was scummy for calling people obvtown and scummy for being paranoid about a townread. What are they supposed to do? Never out townreads at all?"

No, it's not scummy for him to be uncertain about a read. The read looks like it is set up in such a way that allows him to scumread Transcend later if he becomes a target. This could be a real read, but it reads fake to me, as I've explained.

what's good? that wasn't a greeting, that was, "Are you glad I'm not sure about Gerry's alignment and the validity of the read on gerry or are you glad jaereed has a metaread on gerry which denies one of the problems you had with jaereed?" and if it's the latter, which I'm inclined to assume it is... why is that a good thing?

No, I said good to the fact that you found concern with regards to his reads, but maybe I misread your post.

my read on darklyn, from what I remember, was I guess just gut, and unabashedly sheeping in a way that made me think it wouldn't come from scum. I don't really think jaereed would actively try to have their reads agree with everyone else as scum, but maybe they'd be biased towards it? Transcend had obvtown on darklyn too though, so if your complaint is that the read is unjustified...

The difference here is that scumtells don't operate in a vacuum - everyone plays differently. It's not as scummy for Transcend to have an obvtown read on a player because that's how he plays the game, but the way that Jae outed his obvtown read came off as forced and faked to me.

it might be vague but it's a specific thing.

It's not a specific thing, and that's my whole point! The term "posturing" with regards to mafia can literally mean whatever you want it to mean.

I. Do. Not. Understand

why scum would want to hard-SR someone BECAUSE that person has partner-tells with someone else, which is what I thought you said.

edit: juri asked why normal websites didn't show all previous posts instead of letting you post when you tried. This is why

No, let me explain.

I think that he, as mafia, chose me to scumread in particular, because I am an easy person to paint as a partner with Alise. It gives validity to his read on Alise while also making it look like he's scumhunting by finding "partner tells", even though none of those things are real.

[projectmatt]

I want JR to respond to 201 and 207 before I go any further in this game

207 isn't worth a response tbh, it's just more scumfuckery from pjm

to further clarify, this response is fucking

awful

and if you're town then i expect you to dialogue with me at least a little bit or otherwise im just going to assume youre scum that doesnt want to respond to the points ive made because you know they are valid

[projectmatt]

ftr pjm i don't care what you think of me even if you're town. i will be conftown the moment alisae flips maf because too many people in this game know that I never bus as scum. you'll have to nightkill me to get rid of me, and in doing so you'll be leaving transcend alive to powerlynch you.

dear lord the arrogance in this post is giving me a headache

[projectmatt]

jae "I'm hungover, now let's make sure everyone else has a headache too" reed

ahahahahahaha +100

also i love how pjm and dunnstral are both pointing out my arrogance and cockiness which are not only fairly standard towntells but also towntells specific to me. dunn also should know that given the hydra double day game we played.

im annoyed because there's a reasonable chance that youre town but you just happen to be one of those kinds of players whose playstyles that i despise with the passion of a thousand burning suns

[projectmatt]

Ugh.

Vote: Trivium

[projectmatt]

Jae turned reasonably town within the last few pages, but I'm still inherently distrsutful of his playstyle/arrogance.

Impoetic is town.

Alise still leans town but they became mildly worse in the last few pages. I'm really cynical of the push on him, and I don't see it.

Dunn's push on Impoetic is bad even though I mostly TR them.

Crash's initial catch-up post was bad but then he kind of towntold later.

Idk about Darklyn, and I don't get the townread on him.

[projectmatt]

Ugh.

Vote: Trivium

Yeah really not making things better for yourself matt. Did you read the posts? What did you think? Can you answer my question? How was your day?

I did read your posts! I didn't like them very much, and I wanted to see how you reacted to being voted. What is your question, though? I didn't see any, but I'd be happy to answer.

I had a pretty bad day, how about you?

[projectmatt]

Dude, I would LOVE a cookie

[projectmatt]

Oh

[projectmatt]

Ugh.

Vote: Trivium

Yeah really not making things better for yourself matt. Did you read the posts? What did you think? Can you answer my question? How was your day?

I did read your posts! I didn't like them very much, and I wanted to see how you reacted to being voted. What is your question, though? I didn't see any, but I'd be happy to answer.

I had a pretty bad day, how about you?

My big question for today is "how would you feel about a person scum/town-wise if they told you they had a solid townread on you?"
And as to my day, I teach kids. So exhausting, but otherwise alright.

I know that Crash already questioned you on this a bit, but I don't really get the purpose of that question. It would depend on the player. Someone having a solid townread on me isn't an objective tell one way or another.

Also, that is a wonderful job.

[projectmatt]

matt, in all seriousness I'm done with this buddying shit and this "Let's proxy our vote behind Alisae" shit got old really quickly.

Uh what the hell are you talking about?

[projectmatt]

Ugh.

Vote: Trivium

Yeah really not making things better for yourself matt. Did you read the posts? What did you think? Can you answer my question? How was your day?

I did read your posts! I didn't like them very much, and I wanted to see how you reacted to being voted. What is your question, though? I didn't see any, but I'd be happy to answer.

I had a pretty bad day, how about you?

My big question for today is "how would you feel about a person scum/town-wise if they told you they had a solid townread on you?"
And as to my day, I teach kids. So exhausting, but otherwise alright.

I know that Crash already questioned you on this a bit, but I don't really get the purpose of that question. It would depend on the player. Someone having a solid townread on me isn't an objective tell one way or another.

Also, that is a wonderful job.

I don't like that answer, give me something I can hold on to. I'll clue you in, I'm not great at understanding other people and what they would do in specific situations, so I'm asking this so that if you go back on it later in an opportunistic way, or if you don't in a way that puts you in a bad position 'politically', I can really have something to chew on.

I get that, but it's also a hard question for me to answer with absolutely no context. It literally depends on the player. There's no way I can answer that objectively.

[projectmatt]

matt, in all seriousness I'm done with this buddying shit and this "Let's proxy our vote behind Alisae" shit got old really quickly.

Also seriously what the fuck is this? Are you under the impression I've been camping my vote behind your or something?

[projectmatt]

matt, in all seriousness I'm done with this buddying shit and this "Let's proxy our vote behind Alisae" shit got old really quickly.

Uh what the hell are you talking about?

Alise still leans town but they became mildly worse in the last few pages. I'm really cynical of the push on him, and I don't see it.

This SCREAMS buddying to me.

What's the difference between townreading someome and buddying them? That's weird.

[projectmatt]

That's super disingenuous, since I literally made a wall post and spent a ton of time dissecting why I found JaeReed scummy before you even voted them. You just happened to vote them first.

Re: Trivium, it's possible that we picked up on similar tells, but I still think your insistence that I'm buddying you or parking my vote with yours is weird, and it struck me the wrong way.

[projectmatt]

Again, that post was really disingenuous, and it concerns me.

[projectmatt]

Both Trivium's and Jae's responses are super shitty, especially because your post/rationale was really bad. In particular, I think Trivium's is worse because he says "I think I see what you mean" as though you just imparted some sage monk wisdom as opposed to just stated an illogical read.

That makes me feel better about my vote on Trivium.

[projectmatt]

trivium is still scum

[projectmatt]

I am currently leaning that alisae is more likely to be scum than jaereed

I think it's town v town

but why

[projectmatt]

Trivium, projectmatt or Juri would be my first choices for a lynch today I think
VOTE: Trivium

I think a projectmatt lynch or a juri lynch would be better than a trivium lynch and how did you decide to vote trivium over the other two

do you actually fos me? why is that? also why juri, and why do you not want trivium?

[projectmatt]

I am currently leaning that alisae is more likely to be scum than jaereed

I think it's town v town

but why

I don't scumread either of them yet

what about trivium?

no pjm i want to lynch you because I think you're town that just happens to be trying to further scum's wincon and avoiding detection and using faulty logic earlier on.

ok but please note that i also said "why?" in my post about you scumreading me so the sarcasm doesn't actually help me.

also i can see jaereed/alise potentially being t v t, so not exactly.

[projectmatt]

Trivium could be scum but the correct play here is to lynch in {Aslan, Jae}.

Even tho you SR me you're welcome to my masonry with matt.

no nancy isn't welcome in our incredibly small town bloc because i dont townread them save for like one post. her read that you and jae are scum vs scum is REALLY BAD and feels like a setup.

the last page or so probably further soldifies my thought that jae vs alise are likely to be a t v t.

dunn is an ok push only because his read on impoetic is trash, but i want to re-read him.

still think trivium is a great lynch.

[projectmatt]

ok good because i don't like her so far.

[projectmatt]

you're all mean

srry

[projectmatt]

but ur push on impoetic is bad

[projectmatt]

impoetic what changed between you voting me and you voting nancy? what were you wrong about? i think youre town so walk me through this

trivium is fake and i guess i can tryhard and make an EffortPost on him if i need to

[projectmatt]

I wrote this

that sounds really cryptic and stupid. I dislike that pjm and alisae are both on the wagon, I'm a little worried about darklyn sheeping. I was wrong about PJM's unvote being inexplicable earlier and was wrong to vote there because it leaves the big ball of conflict alive. Nancy I don't have my qualms with either about. I still think pjm is potential mafia.

right before PJM asked this

impoetic what changed between you voting me and you voting nancy? what were you wrong about? i think youre town so walk me through this

trivium is fake and i guess i can tryhard and make an EffortPost on him if i need to

and it's not the first time he's asked a question that didn't look like it needed an answer

okay no wtf this is a question that i actually really wanted you to answer because your thoughts make no sense to me. i still want you to answer.

anyway i initially voted trivium because they asked a question that seemed super silly to me and their reads came off as hillariously forced, particularly in a post early on where he confidently nailed me, alis, and transcend as scum but didn't elaborate on any kind of logic. it seems/seemed heavily like he was just making stuff up and forcing as much content as he could.

Then, when Alis did his reaction test thing where he scumread me, Trivium said "I think I see what you mean", and I can't read that as anything but him trying to jump on Alis's obviously badly done scumread.

ATM he hasn't towntold to me personally since any of those things have happened. The closest thing to a towny moment was the conversation between him and Alis a page or so ago, and even then, I'm quite wary.

[projectmatt]

Prod dodge. Give me until tonight or something.

[projectmatt]

Shit, honestly didn't realize the day had started. Will post tomorrow.

[projectmatt]

Okay, I promise that I'll post content tomorrow night, even if it might be slightly later. I apologize for being absent - this has been one of the busiest weeks of my life and I should have taken a V/LA. I'm still in this!

[projectmatt]

Hey, I did respond to the prod! Since I was inactive for quite a while, I do understand if you decide to replace me.

What happened was that in the last few weeks a whole bunch of personal stuff happened at once that has made it a lot more difficult for me to be able to play this game properly - if I foresaw it happening I wouldn't have joined, I am sincerely sorry about my inactivity.

I have a couple of hours of free time tomorrow so I WILL catch up and collect my thoughts and begin contributing again, and if I don't post at all tomorrow, you're welcome to replace me.

[projectmatt]

I don't even care if I get force replaced for saying that. It'd be fucking welcome. Like if pjm is scum here then town has flat out lost because I think everyone else is incompetent. Trans and Frogger died and they were the best chance this game had at a town win. RC should never have self voted as town, that was a shit move and cost us someone who could actually obvtown as town.

I think that this post + his replacing out makes JaeReed town.

Willing to lynch Trivium

Me too. Just cause he voted me

That's called omgus. It's generally a tactic mafia uses. Isn't it odd how both of my top scumreads discredit my posts in much the same way, then move on to push the same lynch?

wow, you're so good at this game. you must be a pro. i've never heard of omgus before, i'm sure no one else has here either. what would we do without you here to explain what omgus means.

Ew, this is terribly forced.

We could lunch usagi slot

Why would you want this to happen?

I've read the last five pages or so. If Trivium isn't scum, that's gonna suck because he's not going to be any help. I don't know yet why Darklyn was a favorite for lynch, but I could live with voting Contradiction from his intro until I find out.

Gerryoat is seems different. More active/adversarial than last game I played with him.

VOTE: Contradiction

Uh-oh. This is a scum-post.

I see reading through the rest of the game that other people pointed this out, and I don't buy that Boring's reactions are town yet.

Momo made a terrible post on #1693, but I think his slot is still town.

Number 56 seems to really be the only one that still gets me though. Not only does he seem confident with his reads in a way he isn't normally, but it also seems like a buddying attempt and super manipulative, which stands out particularly because it's a pjm post. Town pjm probably wouldn't be so confident with a those reads. Transcend also ended up being town, and even with pjm's style, (and it could just be his style) I'm not totally sold that he didn't know transcend was town here, it would make sense for him to.
Mulling all of this over in my head, I guess I'd be ok with voting pjm if it came down to it, because I've been wrong about things like this before, especially going back on myself in the exact way that I am now. If transcend is still reading this game, he'll know what I'm talking about.

in all fairness, my confidence in #56 comes from some slightly off-site meta. i think that im really good at reading impoetic in almost every game we play on our home-site, so i felt confident reading them early in this game. as far as alise goes, i did tonally TR them a lot, but that's not based off of any meta.

feel free to ask for elaboration, but without going into the reasons, my reads are basically:

hapahauli, contradiction, impoetic, momo, are all light to strong townreads, trivium being a potential townread but not quite there yet

atm i want to lynch gerry or boring. gerry has scumtold a lot in the past few days IMO whereas i kind of want to give boring more chance to develop, but so far they havent towntold at all.

[projectmatt]

Projectmatt, I can't let you leave without your opinion on Juri.

Oh, I forgot to mention that they are also really bad, but the kind of bad that makes me not pay attention to them and generally forget they exist, which I did in my past post. I should ISO them.

[projectmatt]

I think that this post + his replacing out makes JaeReed town.

He's been towny for a really long time but ok

Eh.

[projectmatt]

Right now I am uncomfortable voting Juri........

Why?

Titus replaced impoetic,a slot I scum read and now refuses to read the game??

What is that. You know the amount of pages upon replacing in and still choose to say I don´t have time for this. If you don´t have time, don't replace in.

Feel like this is an excuse to cover up scumslip.

Ew okay this is weird and opportunistic even though Titus not reading the game is stupid as fuck.