Open 674: Duck Duck Goose [Game Over]

[outoforder]

and "Conventional kill always gets you lynched with 3 lynches available" doesnt make any sense
and i ma not bad

[outoforder]

rels is dumbass
fitz is mafia
V/LZ until 2018

[outoforder]

what has that to do with Kop kill?

[outoforder]

no i don't disagree with that. Now tell me what does that have to do with anything?

[outoforder]

ohhhhh.. i am sorry i didn't know what conventional means.
rofl so you are arguing the opposite of what you should?

Reason me you fuckface. How do i win if i shoot Kop?

[outoforder]

What is my play as mafia after shooting Kop?

[outoforder]

I am going to stay fucking awake after you tell me this because i wont let this go, as i said you awoken the beast. And i am mad, because you're an idiot rn, or mafia. And i wanna know which one. So FUCKING please, elaborate!

[outoforder]

ohhhhh.. i am sorry i didn't know what conventional means.
rofl so you are arguing the opposite of what you should?

Reason me you fuckface. How do i win if i shoot Kop?

As said before it is not a defense. Killing Kop was an objectivally bad move for everyone. So Kop was not killed because that would make the game easier to win for the last scum. So it has to be another reason for Kop's kill.
I think that reason is making people re evaluate because of a weird kill. If that's true, then the most likely dude to do that shot is someone in a bad spot. You are in the worst spot in the game => the kill points at you.

That's super bad reasoning.
Where did the "Nobody else makes this kill." go?

[outoforder]

I am going to stay fucking awake after you tell me this because i wont let this go, as i said you awoken the beast. And i am mad, because you're an idiot rn, or mafia. And i wanna know which one. So FUCKING please, elaborate!

We spent 3 pages talking about it. The answer has already been written. I don't see how you can defend that YOU are town because of the Kop kill. It is the very definition of a WIFOM kill.

And you are a retarded mafia player if you cannot see it. Literally Rels. Literally....

[outoforder]

You are right though. I can't do that.

[outoforder]

Okay Rels. Let me ask you this:

How strong would you say my mafia play is?
Let's say it's a scale from 0 -100.

[outoforder]

Okay Rels. Let me ask you this:

How strong would you say my mafia play is?
Let's say it's a scale from 0 -100.

75.

ok, what does that conclude to?
like good play or bad play or what?

[outoforder]

@outoforder - you are arguing that Fitz would leave me alive simply because I was townreading him. But over the course of the game, I've changed my mind several times and re-assessed reads when necessary. For instance, pushing Aubrey, backing off and pushing Hawk. More importantly, I said at the end of D1 that Fitz and Rels were Hawk's partners but lynched Hap D2. I don't think my reads staying static is something the scum can rely on. I was left alive over Kop and I think there's a deeper strategic reason than just what my reads were at the end of D2. That reason being what Rels and I have pointed out: a weird kill to shake up everyone's reads. I very much doubt Fitz thought "BV townread me at the end of D2 so I'll leave him alive and kill Kop the mislynch bait."

Then you need to lynch me. I cant say anything to that except for i will hammer myself just you all can feel bad because i am getting fucking annoyed at Rels' shit here......

[outoforder]

Okay Rels. Let me ask you this:

How strong would you say my mafia play is?
Let's say it's a scale from 0 -100.

75.

ok, what does that conclude to?
like good play or bad play or what?

100 is best scum player ever (bugs) and 0 is marv

so you're saying i made a terrible scumplay here while being at 75?
How?

[outoforder]

Okay Rels. Let me ask you this:

How strong would you say my mafia play is?
Let's say it's a scale from 0 -100.

75.

ok, what does that conclude to?
like good play or bad play or what?

100 is best scum player ever (bugs) and 0 is marv

so you're saying i made a terrible scumplay here while being at 75?
How?

Well as said above you didn't make a terrible play if you're scum. With 2 mislynches left and lots of players scumreading you you made the WIFOM play.

And why am i scum?

[outoforder]

sleepy time

[outoforder]

So you are casing for reasons you literally stated were not the reasons to case me earlier on. Good job!

[outoforder]

Can we have more votes on me? I want out of this game.

[outoforder]

I am mafia so you should all vote for me.

[outoforder]

BV do you realize the game wont progress anywhere until you have lynched both me and fitz? There is no amount of convincing that will get you anywhere else. So you can just save 4 weeks of posts where people repeat the same thing over and over again.

I dont feel like i have anything to say in this game anymore. Ive seen enough. I am never going go change my mind here.

[outoforder]

Speaking of how flipped mafia has treatez people, since you guys find that apparently important, here is a funny game:

Go to Hawks filter and write down a players name every time he presents a read on them. In the end there is going to be 10 different names. Wanna guess who is missing?

[outoforder]

How to play as mafia:

Make a case. Then when someone calls your case bs, say you havent made a case. A week later when someone asks to make a case you make the same case again. Get townread by stupid people. Profit!

[outoforder]

Rels what is your reasoning for townreading fitz?

[outoforder]

I am gonna probably quit mafia again if i get lynched this game. When logic doesnt dictate a game of logical dedution its not a game for me anymore. Games were much better 3yrs ago. Idk whats with these new ppl, surely not logic...

[outoforder]

As i said i had never a chance to interact with Hapa on D2. Thats where you wrong. Also i was building a counter wagon on mafia. You cannot call me scum for building a counter wagon when you dont know their alignment, thats just bs imo.

[outoforder]

Even if i had scumread Hapa i would have STILL voted fitz 100% of the time on D2. Thats a fact.

Because he was suspected by basically everyone and noone really wanted to push anyone else until you, but you were supertown anyways. Basically mafia didnt care about him being lynched. Thats bad mafia play. And as i said i have problems with scrub scumteams.

[outoforder]

I recall you calling me scum D1 when I apparently couldn't understand your Fitz case D1. How are you now saying I was super-town?

I dont remember calling you scum. Can you show me where that happened?

I can elaborate on the doom read when i get home. I would need quoting and with phone thats a no-go. So in 2hrs.

[outoforder]

That was more of a frustration call which you can probably tell yourself if you read the rest of the page.

[outoforder]

I am voting for havingfitz.

[outoforder]

@ Tenshii :

like i cant discuss anything with you when you do this.
i hope you're town and we lose.
UNVOTE: Rels
VOTE: havingfitz

[outoforder]

Come on there's a votecount on the same page that says "5 to lynch" of that Fitz post rofl.

[outoforder]

BV - regarding the dommfeathers read:

From post 50 to [quote="In post 64 it is quite clear to me he is either town who ACTUALLY wants to figure out what people's alignments are, or is either a good scum player since you'd have to have a very good understanding of the game to ask that specific questions and look like you're trying to figure out people's alignments. A bit later on i looked at his scum game and yeah, there is notable difference in his posting in that game in comparison to what it is here. Idk in the scum game of his it looks like he is... umm.. just idk what he is doing, i can't find any common thread in his posting in that game. In this game it's different, he picks a person he thinks is supicious -> questions -> reads what they write -> makes a conclusion, and it all adds up. In his scum game he picks a person who he wants to lynch -> asks something random and then wants to lynch again when the person is afk in the first place.

I had some doubts about him at the end of D1 since for the latter part of the day i couldn't remember anything he had posted (which is something that usually makes people scum - especially when the player's posting has been very town indicative earlier). During the night i went to read Hawk's filter again and i find it very very unlikely Hawk enters the game with a big case on his scumbuddy. That's also a strong indicator of doom being town, because if you - as mafia - call your scumbuddy mafia (with actual reasons like Hawk did), your reasoning must be good. Then you face a problem where good players figure your scumbuddy out. If you use bad reasoning (see - an example of this is Fitz - Hapa scumreads on both ways) you face a possibility of getting lynched for it. So yeah, it's extremely unlike that Hawk starts the game like that ESPECIALLY when replacing in to the game. Also after rereading doom's filter i understood the reason for why i got that feeling can be him having some problems irl as he replaced out.

Futhermore, as hapa has flipped there is this:

@Aubrey: Might not hapahauli have changed his behavior purposely after seeing it was going to get him nowhere as scum?

Why do you ever write this as mafia? Someone jsut let go of their scumread on your scumbuddy and you just what???? Give them more ammo?

[outoforder]

So Ife we are not lynching havingfitz, do we want to go ooo. Ooo is most likely scum after this interaction. If not, well we get fitz tomorrow.

Which interaction? You apparently haven't read the thread because i asked you some questions you didn't answer or note in any way but you are somehow aware of some interaction.
So elaborate:
- Who you would have shot if you were mafia?
- Why did mafia shoot Kop?
- What interaction you are talking about

You must understand that making plain comments about something that has happened in the game does not equal playing mafia. So please, explain what interaction you are talking about and what specifically doesn't make sense to you.

[outoforder]

What's your excuse for not knowing what you are doing?

I don't understand the question.

[outoforder]

@Fitz, okay I'll look over the games. Another question you might have missed: when I unvoted Aubrey D1 and voted Hawk, why did you switch to your weak townread Kop instead of going back to your scumread Hap? Hap had more votes at the time too.

[outoforder]

Oh wrong quote. I meant to quote the psot where BV asks you to elaborate on what parts of his towncase on Hapa you did like.

[outoforder]

there are 2 more questions momo.

[outoforder]

I am gonna probably quit mafia again if i get lynched this game. When logic doesnt dictate a game of logical dedution its not a game for me anymore. Games were much better 3yrs ago. Idk whats with these new ppl, surely not logic...

meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeh

meh

bad ending to a good game.
UNVOTE: outoforder
VOTE: havingfitz

Booo.. I've literally done the same thing before as mafia. The thing that doesn't change here is i am not lying like i wasn't back then. The difference is i am not mafia in this game. So if that's a reason to change your read on me your reasoning is terrible.

[outoforder]

I went back on the third point didn't I???

I don't care. It's not about if you scumread me or not. It's about my read on you because rn you aren't giving much anything and i want to hear how your thought process went.

[outoforder]

momo is very very likely to be town.

[outoforder]

I seriously believe we should murder fitz, or possibly Kop. Maybe hawk is the third scum but idk. I am not too confident on that.

Can you guys please go read fitz' filter and tell me how any of his reasoning for scumreads ever makes anyone mafia?

You have ignored repeated questions by me to you...I have seen no case by you on me...and you have a tendency to ad-hom players and/or disparage their ability.

OoO wagon would work as well.

You suspect them cause they are voting you and have a cold foul mouth at times?

Voting me and having a foul mouth aren't automaticreasons for suspicion.

I'm not presenting a case on OoO.

I'm complaining about the fact he's ignored my questions...made no case on me I can see and is discrediting other players.

Which when laid out like that is stuff I find suspect in varying degrees. Zzzzzz
Out...

I haven't had a chance to present my OoO suspicions due to lack of time but I started on this early this morning and I want to post what I have while I have the chance.

I will present my OoO stuff NLT tomorrow.

The failure (IMO) to answer my questions...the failure (IMO) to provide a case on me when he feels I deserve his vote...and the ad-homs towards and disparaging of others are some reasons I suspect OoO

and would like to see him lynched. And for D1 suspicions they are were than suitable reasons for me to be good with an OoO lynch.

Soooo..
- Make a case
- Say you haven't made a case
- Make the same case again

He is either:
1) Bullshitting
2) Forgot why he scumread me

As for 1) it always makes him mafia. As for 2) i have seen the same thing happen once before. Here:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/4 ... ge=89#1765
The difference is that there were actually smart fucking players who can actually tell what makes people mafia and the cop lynched this poor godfather despite having a green check on him based on this case. Town people don't forget why they scumread people they find scummy. NEVER! Because that's what the game is about, and nothing else. Town people also don't make a case, then say it's not a case and then make the same case again.

I also find it impossible Fitz can't make a connection between "ad-homs towards and disparaging of others" and "being a dick". He makes very simple things very hard for no fucking reason since for anyone with any brain at all it's completely clear what i am referring to since it's the same thing. Just because i use different words it doesn't make it any different. I have explained it to him, Aubrey did explain it to him, maybe like 10 other people should do it so it starts ringing any bells? No, i think he's just being agonising because he is mafia.

[outoforder]

You give me shit for getting lynch requirement wrong when you can even keep your own vote status straight.

I am voting for you and Tenshii just missed my vote.

[outoforder]

At least fucking pretend you're reading the game scum.

[outoforder]

wait wtf:
VOTE: havingfitz

[outoforder]

You give me shit for getting lynch requirement wrong when you can even keep your own vote status straight.

I am not giving you shit. I am saying it's just as likely that you missed that as town as it is that you didn't actually miss that as mafia.
= that is something that doesn't make you town

Why are you trying to make things look like something they aren't? If i had thought that is something that makes you mafia i would have called you mafia for it.

[outoforder]

WAiiiiit. You knew i was not voting for you but you somehow "thought" L-4 + 2 votes = lynched?!?!?

[outoforder]

I'm just really paranoid if there's one scum outside of Fitz/outoforder that they'll make lylo. Neither Fitz nor outoforder are looking past the other and outside of that, me and Rels are the only ones trying to gamesolve. I'd really love it if everyone gets more active. Creature basically ignored me when I asked for help figuring out the game.

@Cass - if you are town, you weren't bad this game. It just so happened that I emphatically derailed your preferred scumlynch and lynched his buddy whom you were townreading so I can understand why you were annoyed overall. But I want a perfect win here and I'm sure you do too. What'll help is everyone re-reading the game from start to end and posting thoughts and trying to figure it out. I'm sure you can do it. Please get back in the game.

I'm heading to work now but I'll re-read the game in its entirety once I'm back tonight.

lol Rels is not trying to gamesolve.
momo is not mafia. Look at his answers to me. Can you see what i can see? There is a reason momo as mafia says something else to "who would have killed Kop as mafia" than "i don't know".
+ the second sentence is a perfect reason why i am not mafia. That's also why i get very frustrated when 2 people who know/agree that my scumplay is not bad tyr to tell i am mafia when i would have played terribly in this game -> i literally endgamed myself if i shot Kop, that's a fucking fact. Somehow Rels is butthurt for i don't even know what and you can't see the easy explanation.

But whatever, i am going to be right and that's enough for me.

[outoforder]

I am still going to say that whoever of BV/Rels/Creature is alive at lylo should be auto-lynched because they are good enough to solve the game and they will have (after D2) 4 weeks to solve this game with at least 2 of them being alive. If they cannot do that and end up on retarded reads like this, they should be lynched. Always. Even if Fitz is alive at lylo i would lynch onto whoever of those three is alive because they deserve to lose the game whatever alignment they are at that point.

[outoforder]

VOTE: Havingfitz

I just offered myself being lynched over a townie so Rels can what??? "get towncredit"? (when me - Rels interaction caused the whole thing in the first place). I am sorry, smart mafia teams do not do that. Especially when it would leave 1 mafia alive which has a chance of instantly losing the game if you shoot the wrong person.. They just simply agree to lynch the townie.

I cannot disagree with any of this. Bussing in this format is basically good as suicide to lose the game. Not even bussing on day one.

I don't think OoO is scum in this scenario as I suspect Rels more.

I suspected rels of that, and still do. That's why my vote is/was on him.

I echo the thoughts of Cassielle regarding Rels.

It would be beneficial if we got a flip on either Hapa or rels, but I am feeling rels more than Hapa at the minute. His whole push on Hapa, and that question that I questioned and a few others he just wouldn't reveal what he intended, it just felt that he was setting Hapa up to suspect then back off when Hapa came into the game properly. I get a strong sense of feeling that it's either bussing, or classic distancing if one was to flip later in the game. It looks worse with Rels backing out of it, which also points to that if Hapa flips town, Rels gains town credit because he can actually safely say well I felt that he was town because of his responses and there isn't any backlash towards Rel because of it.

Just it doesn't feel right anymore, my slight town read that I got has gone.

With scum having day talk, it could have easily been orchestrated and co-ordinated without having to work hard at it, if Hapa flips scum, it would point me heavily towards Rel again.

Taking Rel out would answer a lot towards my thoughts towards Hapa, it could make me think twice in regards to him.

Here.

I mean here is why momo doesn't say he "doesn't know" why mafia shot Kop if he is mafia. Mafia always shoots people for a reason. If momo is mafia and shot Kop there are three reasons for him:
- Kop hammered scum (which isn't really a good reason to shoot him since you already explained why that doesn't make Kop town - and momo has been reading the thread since he can at least realize you're the driving force behind this town)
- momo wants to use that to push a lynch on Fitz
- momo wants to do that to push a lynch on Rels

Both of those people were who Kop suspected before voting for Hapa. Now when Kop shouldn't be townread for his vote, the only reasons for momo to kill Kop is to try push a lynch on Fitz/Rels. It could be possible that he was waiting for someone to bring that up as a reason to NK Kop (fitz/rels being mafia) but noone has expressed anything regarding that and i asked him a straight up question (well i kinda painted it as a innocent "hey just tell me what you think" kind of a question). I believe momo's reasoning for shooting Kop (in case he is mafia) doesn't go together with his actions on D3.

[outoforder]

lol Rels is not trying to gamesolve.

fuck you

Regardless of my affiliation you are really not.
If you are sure i am scum you shouldn't, but it doesn't change the fact you aren't.

[outoforder]

WAiiiiit. You knew i was not voting for you but you somehow "thought" L-4 + 2 votes = lynched?!?!?

Nice overreacting. When I thought I'd been hammered it was taking into account the fact you were telling the mod (erroneously) that you were voting me.

I didn't check until later when I was updating my vote spreadsheet. After Rels pointed out I wasn't hammered.

why are you keeping a vote spreadsheet when apparently it has no affection to your reads?

[outoforder]

This ^ vote is scummy as sh*t. If you are town, you do not vote out of anger on D3. Calm yourself down and focus on the game.

It's not though. I did the same thing earlier.

[outoforder]

Your "doubting" is based on something that is not alignment indicative for slightest. Calling me scum for incorrect reasons is not game-solving however much you want to say it is.

[outoforder]

Like i cannot understand you cannot understand there is no game solving in this game unless both of me and Fitz have flipped town. There is no other direction in this game, ever, before that happens. There is no game solving before that because there is literally 2 suspects and 1 mafia left atm. I don't even know what BV is trying to do rn because if you have 2 suspects and don't see how anyone else can be mafia you just fucking fglip the 2 people and if the game goes on you then re-evaluate, you don't find 3rd or 4th suspect before you have flipped the suspects you already have ffs.

That's why this game is dumb.

[outoforder]

You freaked out at me saying similar stuff in Really Small Mafia II and ruined the game.

That was nothing similar, you wanted to CONCEDE as town!!!!!!!

[outoforder]

Like i cannot understand you cannot understand there is no game solving in this game unless both of me and Fitz have flipped town. There is no other direction in this game, ever, before that happens. There is no game solving before that because there is literally 2 suspects and 1 mafia left atm. I don't even know what BV is trying to do rn because if you have 2 suspects and don't see how anyone else can be mafia you just fucking fglip the 2 people and if the game goes on you then re-evaluate, you don't find 3rd or 4th suspect before you have flipped the suspects you already have ffs.

That's why this game is dumb.

Like this is what you do. You flip me and you flip Fitz. One of us is going to turn up mafia.
The one you didn't flip this day (if they flip town) you treat as town the next day and actually listen to their reads and reasoning. Regardless of what they say you however 100% flip them the next day.

That's what is going to happen anyways regarding lynches assuming the game goes on after this day and i am perfectly fine with that. The thing is, who do you lynch first? Who will give you better chances in LYLO regarding their reads

if they happen to be town

? Because rn both of me and Fitz are calling each other scum and that won't change until the other one of us has flipped.

[outoforder]

You freaked out at me saying similar stuff in Really Small Mafia II and ruined the game.

That was nothing similar, you wanted to CONCEDE as town!!!!!!!

so it isn't a town point for you anymore.
About Fitz, you're saying he faked saying he was hammered ?

i don't understand the first sentence.
yes.

[outoforder]

Like Rels, i am pretty fucking close to do the same thing i did with Koshi in Neat and Tidy. I could point out a numerous inconsistencies in your filter and probably get you lynched after me just because i got fucking tilted with your bs...

[outoforder]

Yes i am. My filter doesn't contain any inconsistencies however much you wanna look at it that way.
In a same way i can say your read on Fitz doesn't make any sense and you want to lynch me because if i am alive after this dayphase i WILL make sure the town lynches you ain LYLO after i flip (because that's what i will do).

[outoforder]

"OH YEAH HAPA VOTING EVERY WAGON BUT HAWK'S MEANS HE S PROBABLY TOWN"

What are you atalking about i never said such a thing especially when i have fucking argued Hapa WOULDNT (as mafia) vote for Hawk...

BUT WHY WOULD I KILL KOP ? ONLY I CANNOT KILL HIM"

That's not what i said. I said i never kill him, i didn't say i am the ONLY one who cannot kill him.

"(D2) CANT SEE HAPA BEING SCUM OTHER THAN WITH CASS / CREATURE (D3) ACTUALLY ITS STILL FITZ"

Yeah i didn't. I somehow thought their votes (hapa-fitz) on D1 were much more TvM indicative than they were. And because i thought Hapa was town i didn't see the "scrub scumteam" (see the wagon on him on D1) that i see now.

Where the fuck are the inconsistencies you're talking about?

[outoforder]

What post?
I don't really understand why you think i am scum because the things you just laid out are 100% false.
So can you be concise? If not i don't fault you for that but i am not gonna go read your filter because i don't care. I can answer you though if you make a single post for it.

The only thing i have provably fucked up in this game is my read on Hapa which is also only a half-fuck up since i never had time to discuss anything with him on D2. If you know how to read me you know what to look for in how i treat people in case i am scumreading, null-reading, or townreading them. If you are any smart you can tell that my townread on Hapa is based on things other people than Hapa have done. And that i really wanted to question him on D2. Yeah i made a fucking terrible decision on him i should have never made and if you think that makes me mafia then you're jsut bad or have no idea on how to read me. Because it can clearly be seen from my posting what i think about EVERYONE in the game. There are no inconsistencies in my filter, it's impossible there are. So if you feel like there are please point me out on what those things are then so i can at least answer them.

[outoforder]

I am sorry if you are thinking about other possibilities or think about the game all day and night but i don't see that translating into your posts.

[outoforder]

If yes, why are you ignoring that post where Hawk said "mm too many people wants to vote Hapa it's suspicious" just after voting me ?

Because the post doesn't mean anything in the scenario i find most likely. I have literally just argued about it.

WELL THEN GO CHECK IT BEFORE MAKING CALLS

If yes, why are you saying Hawk jumped off my wagon to Aubrey's when my wagon was starting to have a lot of people ?

Clarify please, i don't understand the question.

You said:

OOO are you working on the idea that I'm scum; Hawk is my partner; and he voted me over Hapa ?

Yeah why not? You weren't gonna get lynched anyways and when your wagon gained some traction he was quite happy to put his vote elsewhere.

I don't see the problem in how his voting cannot make you mafia.

Which is false, when he switched to Aubrey I only had 2 votes left on me.

The post doesn't mean anything. If you do think it means something then fucking say what instead of calling my thought process (you apparently have no idea about) scummy.

What is false there? Having votes != thread sentiment. Thread sentiment suggests that Hawk started deflecting from lynching you (which he never really did try in the first place tbh) when people got somewhat interested in it. The number of votes you were having when he unvoted is irrelevant.

I thought you were only trying to prove Hapa was town, not that I was scum ? But here you're saying you were actually arguiing that Hawk's voting pattern makes me more likely to be scum. But I thought you were just trying to prove I wasn't town just because of Hawk's actions ....
And if that post doesn't mean anything, what post does mean something then ? You still haven't reread this part of the thread, even though you're basing lots of reads on it ?

Like here is a prime example of you making something look like something that i didn't actually say and i don't like it.
However you want to push it i NEVER EVER said "Hawk's vote on Rels means they are mafia together", i said "Hawk's vote on Rels doesn't exclude them being partners (because of [reasons] i laid out before)". If you wanna twist it that way then i cannot help you, and tbh that's not the only time you do this. Read the underlined sentence and think about what it actually says. Like you from all the people should know when i call people mafia as any alignment i dont use conditionals like that.

[outoforder]

Like if i was calling you mafia i would make a case and summarize it into the thread instead of arguing with you why you are mafia....

[outoforder]

And i just told you how they are not...

[outoforder]

I dont care. Youre mafia BV. Because you have only lynched townies in this game. You should be lynched.

[outoforder]

Also never lynch fitz he is supertownie. Just look at the cade no case case nocase. Dont worry the real cade will come around 2020 then you can decide.

[outoforder]

I dont care. Youre mafia BV. Because you have only lynched townies in this game. You should be lynched.

If you mean, I'm town because I only lynched mafia this game, you're totally right.

Deems like youre about to break that streak and it will totally make you magia because only having 10 out of 11 reads correct is scummy.

[outoforder]

Andd youre asking queations i have explained my thought process on already so i dont care to answer them.

[outoforder]

I am sorry BV. I understand your enthusiasm in being correct but youre really never gonna advance here in any way. I dont however understand how you dismiss the most obvious scumtells ever and then you call me scum for something that is horseshit until you know fitz' alignment and it makes me extremely frustrated. Youre overthinking this really hard and there is no reason to.

Also fucking lol at one of the most illogical players i have ever seen telling me how to play mafia. Its not even sad anymore, its just funny.

[outoforder]

Go to Kop's filter and read his posts on D2. There is your reason.

[outoforder]

Go to Kop's filter and read his posts on D2. There is your reason.

when i do nka its "non-indicative"
when you do nka its "there is your reason"

the scum case stacks up

That's one of the reasons why you are illogical. You do nka -> "this is who killed x", i did nka -> "this is why the nk doesnt make y town". And you cant see the difference between those two things. And i wont even bother explaining it to you because you wont understand it anyways.

[outoforder]

I read one of his scumgames.

[outoforder]

Aubrey's mindset seems totally different as mafia than here. Also he jumps on same sort of things he isn't jumping on here. Granted, i haven't seen a town game of his so point me out to one and i will rejudge.

[outoforder]

What a shallow case. Don't care to respond.

[outoforder]

Like i will give an example:

Other than a brief stint by hapa in RVS...neither hapa or Hawk vote OoO.

[outoforder]

Nonono momo. They definitely wouldn't! Especially when Fitz' conclusion is "there is 2 mafia in Hawk wagon". They definitely wouldn't! Why would they, it doesn't make any sense in any world!

[outoforder]

The only thing i am gonna say about this is that:
Before this:

His actual actions...

Nothing is alignment indicative or just straight up bs.

After it, when i flip town Fitz jsut made a case on himself : D

There is this gem too:

how would the fact that other player is essentially being called incompetent affect my willingness to listen to that player

Do you want to guess who i have "called out" for this?

If OoO isn't scum I think VCA would point to

momo

(despite my based on meta only town read on Doom),

cassie

................and maybe

Kid

Yeah, the thing is i say what i think is true (=i don't think they're helping much). You call them mafia (=you will do that when/if i flip).
^_^

DUNKED!

[outoforder]

one of the easiest reads of my life.
E A S I E S T . . . ^^

[outoforder]

I find it hard to imagine both Hawk's scum partners would have bussed him

Translation = I doubt it.

Especially when Fitz' conclusion is "there is 2 mafia in Hawk wagon"

Scummy misquote of words or inference never mentioned.

OoO on more than one occasion has twisted comments or flat out misquoted people (me at least) to suite his agenda.

Yeah yeah you're having it both ways no need to say anything else.

[outoforder]

Words say one thing and your actions say other (calling me and hapa both scum = literally 2 scum in hawk wagon).

[outoforder]

And that IS FUCKING KLITERALLY YOUR FUCKING LITERAL CONCLUSION BECAUSE YOURE CALLING ME MAFIA ALL GAME FUCKING LONG YOU SCUMMYSCUM!

[outoforder]

I am getiing mad at this fucking dumbass.

[outoforder]

Sorry, you're just mafia so it's understandable.

[outoforder]

I am getiing mad at this fucking dumbass.

Fuck you asshole. Go back to TL if you can't stand pressure. Fucktard.

I thought you thought i am scum and this is not "pressure"?

[outoforder]

I would say L2P but you're scum so i won't. ^^

[outoforder]

Why would you ever want to pressure a read you think (know) is scum?
You are making it look like you're pressuring me which is something you shouldn't be doing because pressuing != telling people why scum is scum.

[outoforder]

You're not getting the fact i don't give any single fucks if i am lynched or not because you're mafia and you're next.

[outoforder]

Except for being annoyed ofc, that doesn't translate into "he is trying to get himself not lynched" which you incorrectly imply.
If i did care about surviving i would not alienate all the people in the game. So yeah, when i am at L-1 i will self-hammer (try me people) and then you, the mafia scumming fitz gets lynched the next day and i am gonna call you all bad. ^^

[outoforder]

It's easy, put me to L-1 and see what happens.

[outoforder]

This game will probably end with a momo lynch.

VOTE: momo

no, momo is town.

[outoforder]

Also, something I've learned: Don't take associations so seriously.

Please educate me on what this means?

[outoforder]

can ou just vote for me?

[outoforder]

momo, vote for me plz.

[outoforder]

dont belong, dont exist, dont ever judge me.
:p

[outoforder]

momo i am sorry. I am mafia inthis game :/
I am juST FUCKING WITH YOU. YOU NEED TO VOTE FOR ME.!!!

[outoforder]

I am super easily mafia just loo at fitz' case.
Shit, such a good case.

[outoforder]

why cant i hammer myself as mafia?
It's kinda weird....

[outoforder]

creature can you voter for me?
I think you're mafia because you're being incomprehensive all game.


BV. Go, you're scum because you are going on for the win... Sigh seee... You are winning, noone wants to lynch you and you will 100% win the game. wow. such play.
Now vote for me?

[outoforder]

i think bv is mafia.

[outoforder]

If, even with two scum lynched and no town mislynched, everybody's already being apathetic, there's a problem.

booo. really man, boooo....
easy lynch. i like you man. i always do, you are good. <3

[outoforder]

i think bv is mafia though.
he is bussing so he can be readas town fot he rest of the game.

[outoforder]

ez read, ez lyfe.

[outoforder]

he is even bussing fitz.

[outoforder]

I was bussing hapa, shit i lost

[outoforder]

i think bv is mafia though.
he is bussing so he can be readas town fot he rest of the game.

VOTE: Blackvoid

[outoforder]

100% case.

[outoforder]

i think bv is mafia though.
he is bussing so he can be readas town fot he rest of the game.

see this too.

[outoforder]

I mean, "he is bussing so he can be readas town fot he rest of the game" is like... ugh, how can anyone disagree with that logic?
bussing != town
geez ez!

Now just lych BV and win the game ok?!?

[outoforder]

(i am more interested in d4 lynch than d3 because town is retarded here anyways(.

[outoforder]

where are the votes you fuckfaces? Show me.

[outoforder]

i think bv is mafia though.
he is bussing so he can be readas town fot he rest of the game.

I think this is an easy lynchc 100%.

[outoforder]

Like the logic will 100% always apply, just ask Fitz he will tell you and suck your dick.

[outoforder]

If this wasn't an open setup I would genuinely assume Ooo was a Jester at this point.
Get your shit together.

I have told you who is mafia for 4-5 weeks, if youre incapable of understanding you're whatever i told you you were..... :p :p

[outoforder]

I mean like you cant understand anything i say (what makes ppl mafia) - we've seen that already
.
<3

[outoforder]

Well kill me then, i am mafia? It's easy. Just put the vote on me.

[outoforder]

I ma so laughing at Fitz' case. I call Kidamn, cass and momo "illogical and shit and whatever" players, he calls them mafia.
And then those ppl go like wow Fitz is so handsome and cool, fucking so cool,without seeing how it actually is.

I am sorry if i am rude but you are fuicking terrible at this game so fucking lynch me you fucking terrible fucking mafia players.
You are.. Literally.. terrible... all of you.

[outoforder]

all of you 3.

[outoforder]

I am gonna shout nonsense until you fucking retards vote for me.

[outoforder]

I didn't like Fitz's case either. "outoforder is putting my name in bolded red text so people will subconsciously associate me with mafia" feels like the sort of trolly case I'd make as scum if I wanted to see what I could get away with.

his case has nothing to do with anyone being mafia tbh.

[outoforder]

and i am so fucking tilted for the fact that there is EVEN PEOPLE who consider this shitface is town over me.

[outoforder]

Can you jsut put your votes on me me BV and Creature?

[outoforder]

wrong.

[outoforder]

VOTE: havingfitz
i need sleep.

[outoforder]

I didnt have a case. What wall post? Finishing thoughts later is okay so idk what you're talking about.
You're not a dick, you're a flower. And i haven't misquoted things, if i had i would be mafia.

Sad

[outoforder]

My case will come in 2028. I am V/LA until that except i am not but i am but i am not but i am.
Is it okay for you? Or not or is it or not or is it or not?

[outoforder]

( i can easily do this at least 4 weeks)

[outoforder]

I am getiing mad at this fucking dumbass.

Fuck you asshole. Go back to TL if you can't stand pressure. Fucktard.

I know about the black hole. I don't like it. I prefer women.
I can stand anything you can possibly throw at me because i am smarter than you are.
Try me. Try me again, and again and again you scummy scum.

[outoforder]

Dont try too hard, black hole is a no-go...

[outoforder]

But there is no way Cass is mafia so there is that. Not that interesting.

[outoforder]

Eitz is not okay getting lynched. He alsoready gave three other scumreads if i flip town.

[outoforder]

And Cass is not mafia for her D1 after BV made a case on Aubrey. Basically all the reactions she gave after that doesn't make any sense as mafia. Individually maybe, but as together, never.
KidAmn is not mafia because of his rant with Hapa and his voting behaviour and the times ha actually comment on stuff (see for example -> he was very against people moving off Hapa in a very genuine way on D1).
momo is not mafia because doomfeathers was town and momo didn't shoot Kop.

So there you go.

[outoforder]

And Cass is not mafia for her D1 after BV made a case on Aubrey. Basically all the reactions she gave after that doesn't make any sense as mafia. Individually maybe, but as together, never.

if you're talking about her posts where she shit on BV after the Hawk case but before the flip, then I agree they were townie. But I know I could fake them. And there is no game I can compare her scumgame to, so I don't know if she can do it or not.

She started shitting on BV when BV started pushing Aubrey. I totally missed it on D2 when i was trying to figure out wtf cass is doing.
Go look at her filter.

[outoforder]

I mean like it makes sense as mafia in case she is wanting town credit for scum lynch and doesn't think she can do anything about BV's push (so like she would be right and BV lynches a townie in Aubrey). But then she throws all the town credit out of the window with the stance on Hawk for like nothing. Like the only thing that makes sense she does that for as mafia is bussing -> town credit but then apparently she doesn't want the town credit after all. So she must be town.

[outoforder]

I didnt know saying someone is very very likely to be town is leaving a door open for them being scum... and Rels is not scum
So yes, thats very different from what youre doing..

[outoforder]

You are really not good at understanding tilt are you?

[outoforder]

Oh no it's probably just the other thing....

[outoforder]

Creature (or anyone with like over 10 games of experience on this site):
How likely it is that mafia would try to "derail" a D1 lynch on their partner into a no-lynch by making a case on another partner of theirs? Basically do no-lynches happen, and if yes, how often, in IML games (D1)?

@outoforder, what was this referring to?

I don't remember. Someone said something stupid i tried to disprove.

UNVOTE: Hapahauli
Shit i have to reconsider this.

What sparked this unvote? Hap's explanation in 176 didn't bring up any new information.

His last game and Rels talking about it about 20 posts earlier. Furthermore Hapa was already going into defense mode and based on his last game he actually did kind of same things he did early on in the game (like voted JAT (who is also a strong player) for pressure). Later on he didn't do much so i revoted him and then the genuine-seeming-AtE and (on D2) the bus vote on Hawk threw me off.

[outoforder]

I haven't read anything since my last post. I'm not sure what the vote count is but:

VOTE: hapa

I'd vote OoO but I do not feel I have had time to summarize my suspicions of him properly. We have a lot of time left in the day so if people want to wait I can promise Monday. Otherwise...(AtE alert! AtE alert!)

I feel I am going to be in defense mode for the entirety of my time left in this game so it might be better for town to just push through the lynch on me while there are mislynches to spare.

Whatever you all (town) decide works for me.

The bolded part seemed really genuine though.

Yeah right? From the dude who just said he is never okay with getting lynched as either alignment...
Very genuine.

[outoforder]

UNVOTE: havingfitz
VOTE: outoforder

It's amazing how you fail to lynch the most obvious scum on the planet. Well done boys!
BV don't bother to msg me after all. I don't really wanna play with someone who thinks i would ever shoot one of my top mislynchs as mafia after all.

[outoforder]

No, lynch everyone else because you're all scum. Being wrong ONCE equals being scum and you've all been wrong more than i have in this game.

[outoforder]

33 days and i managed to have my vote on a townie for 1h15mins. I am happy with that ratio.

Couldnt care less what you think.

[outoforder]

Well done momo.

[outoforder]

Whenever town lynches mafia D1 everyone always arms N1. No wifom. Regardless of if mafia shoots or not (obviously better if they do) town gains a mislynch. I thought it was self-evident for everyone, apparently not.

And seriously it's almost impossible to lose any game as town with this much time if there are even 2-3 semi-competent players.... Setup is fine, though quite swingy (in town's favor, if town happens to lynch mafia D1).

[outoforder]

I think you should have taken risks and shoot unlynchable players IMO, killing Kop / Momo were bad decisions; even with them alive you had very littly chance to survive 3 lynches, so with them gone it was basically impossible IMO.

says the dude who thought i am the only player who shoots Kop... tsk tsk....

[outoforder]

Town lose all the time with 2week day phases.

Then the town is pretty bad tbh. (wow i was being a dick again)

[outoforder]

Well KidAmn can rest in peace now since i am not gonna play another game of mafia.

[outoforder]

its more complex than that.

What is?

[outoforder]

I enjoy being scum but it sucks when your entire team is getting
serious suspicions (whether for decent or crap reasoning). No fun
being constantly in defense mode (as town or scum).

I enjoyed playing with most of the players.
Those who feel the need to be condescending twats...not so much.

For the first part the thing is usually when you get suspected as mafia you don't really understand why (unless it's something super obvious). Because if you did know, you wouldn't do that, right? I am not sure (still) if you even understand my points on you since even the townies (who SHOULD have a different mindset than mafia does) couldn't understand them. Maybe you're right (if you even mean you here), but

most likely

you're not. I talked about this with Hapa after i was lynched and he is right in that (especially on D3) you told the town what they needed/wanted to hear, i didn't. You were better than me in that. And i was totally rooting for you to win after. But i don't really care about that as i said. I jsut lay out my stuff and that's it. Most of the time most of the people don't get me at all. That has become very obvious to me especially with the newer players. Which brings me to my second point.

I am sorry for the people i offended. I know i crossed the line in some occasions but i don't think calling bad bad, stupid stupid, and illogical illogical is personally insulting someone. I put down the things as they are (which is one reason i don't think i should play again -- when i get angry about someone repeatedly saying something i find very stupid i can't help myself being a dick and answering in a sarcastic and aggressive way ). It really is something i totally lack in when i am writing my thoughts on a forum. It is not the first time when this happens and i always think i can do better, andddd then something happens and i can't. Like when Cassielle told me i am "conf biased" and told me how to play mafia properly i was ready to throw my monitor out of the window. No offense to Cass in any way, but i was just so sure of my read i really couldn't process that in any way. I don't actually think any of you are dumb, bad, or retarded. I just can't understand the logic in certain situations when my head tells me "there is no logic at all".

As i said, you told the town what they needed to hear, which was "OoO is an idiot, lynch him". And that's another reason why i am not suitable for playing mafia, regardless of the quality of my reads. Well yeah KidAmn, in that you are right.

[outoforder]

D2 and where it went for on D3 are the prime example why you don't hammer early.
I know Kop didn't mean to hammer but you should be more cautious always because you don't really need to put down the vote "RIGHT NOW!" regardless of the situation when there is like 10 days left in the phase.

[outoforder]

Good game town. Sorry outoforder. Should have lynched Fitz on D3. You were right! I think I got too caught up in lynching someone who was pushing a counterwagon to scum without first checking to see if the counterwagon was town. I should have stuck with my initial impression that Hap/you interacting early game was not scum to scum. Had the scumteam figured out as early as 820 but I'm sad I wasn't able to follow-through on that for a perfect win. But town as a whole wrecked a setup that had only 20% town winrate before this game. Creature was impressively accurate this game. Scum played well with Hap/Fitz distancing and making it look like only one of them was scum. I'd have lynched Fitz next just to be faithful to outoforder though so this game was pretty much wrapped up but I'm glad it ended tonight. I was a bit exhausted. Loved playing with the TL crew as well and I hope next time we meet Hap, that we're both town. Modding was top notch. Nice job Tenshii.

@Tenshii/scumteam, can we see the scum topic please?

You made three mistakes:

1) If i was mafia Hawk would have never been lynched on D1. You would have never gotten that far. I had all the town-credit to argue (or find reasons) to lynch Kop, KidAmn, Aubrey, Rels... Basically most of the players. It makes no sense that when you make a case on Aubrey i argue heavily against that (when Hapa is a counter-wagon), and then when you go onto Hawk i do... nothing?!?!?!? I would never ever do that as mafia because it's just terrible mafia play.

2) What you said about Hapa D2 and my stance on him. I totally thought he was town for the vote that made "no sense" to make at the time he did. I was trying to figure out who the hell could be mafia? KidAmn? No it doesn't make any sense. Rels? No it doesn't make any sense. Noone else makes any sense. Maybe i have missed something (since i didn't really have time to read Hapa's D1 again as i was arguing why fitz is mafia). Then Hapa got back, made a post, and i started questioning him. And suddenly there is hammer..... I was like "ughhhhh what the fuckkkk". But yerah, you realy shouldn't have EVER thought i am mafia because i was defending Hapa when you don't know Fitz' alignment, because if Fitz is scum then it all makes sense.

3) The Kop kill. Fuck Rels. Rels should know better and should have told you. He didn't. I am sad.

[outoforder]

Awww man I was hoping Fitz would make the comeback. Eh we kinda got screwed early game. I think I should have tried to Bus Hapa harder maybe if I had actually voted him at some point we could have had a better chance. It just sucks how D1 went down leading into d2.

Maybe, but in the situation it was you did what you could. Like there is no guarantee people start pushing townies (in which case bussing is terrible). Having too much info screwed you over in the end there.

[outoforder]

3) The Kop kill. Fuck Rels. Rels should know better and should have told you. He didn't. I am sad.

(=
I will never use that argument. Because if I start thinking like that then one time you WILL make the Kop kill as scum and I'll be pocketed.

No, i will never shoot my mislynch if i have a chance to shoot someone that points to nowhere and is NOT my mislynch.
It was very simple. I can understand all of the other people not getting that but you.... You....

[outoforder]

Well you were 1,25/792 townie i voted for, i guess that's an achievement.

[outoforder]

Well you were 1,25/792 townie i voted for, i guess that's an achievement.

And 100% of my votes were on people who were scummy.
=D

That would be true if i wasn't pushing another scum instead of Hapa D2.
But no.

[outoforder]

Rels, if i was mafia in this game this is what i had done:

Totally 100% asked my team if i can shoot you N1 and took my chances of you not arming and went with it just so i can post the town bros pic and you'd get mad :p

Answer plz without reading the spoilers. :p

[outoforder]

haha^^

[outoforder]

You're still bad and i was 790,5 / 792 right.

[outoforder]

that is 99,8%

[outoforder]

being right is only a third of the goal. Since you failed the others it's only 33.26666...

true, but i only care about being right so 99,8%

[outoforder]

and it's actually 50%.

[outoforder]

VOTE: Rels
What is the third goal?

[outoforder]

that doesn't make any sense because getting lynched and the other two are mutually exclusive.

[outoforder]

like if you're convincing you cannot be getting lynched. so like you put the same thing as two?
like you guys put the NL flag sideways just to argue it's cool? :p

[outoforder]

(i know the reference doesn't make any sense but it's a reference that goes to every situation and it always makes sense)

[outoforder]

See Rels, 50%.

[outoforder]

Wait but Creature, if i don't care about both of those, does that make me 199,8% right?
Now i am super confused....

You played well, and it was a pleasure to play with you. <3

[outoforder]

Guys. OOO continue to play mafia. Everyone else, don't start crying if you can't take a few words.

No KidAmn is not completely wrong. And that doesn't even matter if he was. I've had enough of logic i can't comprehend with and that's not this game only. It's a looooot of games i have played the past two or so years.

[outoforder]

Like the question i specified to Rels early in the game was a prime example of this. When i saw the reactions from other people (which should have never came, you just let the person do the stuff they do and see if it makes sense or not) i was like "oh my fucking god, where have i gone to...."

[outoforder]

Thank you for hosting Tenshii, fluently hosted game. <3

[outoforder]

If you need the town to consider your cases and alignment rationally and calmly, you have to do your part to create that rational and calm atmosphere. The only person who really did that well on D3 was BlackVoid.

I can't resist.

And see where he got with it!

[outoforder]

Oh and apparently KidAmn for idk what reason. He just posted a case on me (which i never read) and there was "yeah good case" vote vote vote vote... ?!?!? :O

[outoforder]

If I didn't know better I'd say this was Hawk coaching Ooo into the game.

Stopped reading here.
Really BV? Really? You bought this case?

[outoforder]

I am being nice and say KidAmn was "slightly wrong on everything he said".

[outoforder]

What is this even............................

Basically i am left with:
havingfitz
KidAmn
(Hapa/Rels)

Ooo has a scumread on Rels suddenly, and a townread on hapa after pushing him a bunch at the start of D1.

??????????????????????????????????? What is this even again.
JESUS BLACKVOID WHY? HOW DO YOU..... rofl

[outoforder]

And this guy, KidAmn, claims that "it was always Fitz who we lynch after you" when his fucking case was 80% of "you called Fitz scum so you are mafia".
HA FUCKING HA.

[outoforder]

why do people lie as town? after the game has ended?

[outoforder]

Fitz if you had shot BV last night you had about 50% chance of winning the game.

[outoforder]

And this guy, KidAmn, claims that "it was always Fitz who we lynch after you" when his fucking case was 80% of "you called Fitz scum so you are mafia".
HA FUCKING HA.

why do people lie as town? after the game has ended?

PoE had it as you vs. Fitz (and if PoE didn't end the game for whatever reason we were likely fucked) and I had a more compelling case IMO on you, plus the way you flailed around vs. Fitz being relatively rational slanted it against you (and my case wasn't anywhere near "you called Fitz scum so you are mafia", but you did say you didn't read it so v0v). But I'm not sure why I'm continuing to post here, given that you clearly come from... a very different style of playing Mafia. Thanks for a largely enjoyable game, Tenshii and all.

I guess my style of playing mafia is then better than yours readwise.
I don't believe you. If you had said "i will 100% sheep BV/OOO in case OOO flips town" it would make sense. But you didn't. You were just completely wrong and i don't even know why. And you would have been wrong the next day too, and you saying i am bad and you would have lynched Fitz doesn't cut it because if you did that in game you would have been lynched over him as you completely took a 180 from the last day. 100%. Think about it.

[outoforder]

Like you literally argued i am mafia because i thought Fitz is mafia.... You literally did that.

[outoforder]

I am not sure if you realize it but yes KidAmn, you did just that.

[outoforder]

Also...can you post who armed each night?

Yeah, I posted them in 2552

Thanks.

Fcuk! Only person who hadn't armed yet and I pick him. Ffffffffcuk.

you should have always shot into rels - BV - creature after D2 because even if you lose well then you lose, you lose anyways if you don't kill them before lylo.

[outoforder]

Those three were people who never get lycnhed over you. If you shoot Kop and momo how do you survive in LYLO?

[outoforder]

They were also people who were right and good. Like you have nothing to lose if you shoot them.
Aubrey shot was good.
If you shot Aubrey N1, then always shoot BV N2, if he wifomed N1 tough luck, but you're already the only one left.
BV died, nice! You lynched OoO. Shoot Creature or Rels. The one you think is more likely to trust my read on you (Rels).
Try bullshitting more. Shoot Creature.
Bullshit more.

That was the only way to win imo.

[outoforder]

That's why i said the Kop kill was retarded. You were the only guy possibly mafia who could make that kill to NOT lose the game with the kill.

[outoforder]

i even proved momo never makes the kill ^^

[outoforder]

if i am good at one thing in this game it's i do know who DOESNT make the NK...
Apparently Rels doesn't know this. Now he should, and now it doesn't matter. ^^

[outoforder]

Fitz if you had shot BV last night you had about 50% chance of winning the game.

Never.

Why not. Who, as mafia, would NOT shoot him?

[outoforder]

I know i would shoot him 100% the night before.

[outoforder]

Fitz if you had shot BV last night you had about 50% chance of winning the game.

Never.

Why not. Who, as mafia, would NOT shoot him?

I mean, he never survives 2 lynches. Especially if I'm alive

That's debatable. BV dies you live. You lynch momo (or w/e) for some dumb reason.
He shoots you / Creature. Suddenly you are in LYLO with (assume you are alive):
Fitz
Rels
2 of Cassielle/KidAmn/momo

What does YOUR logic say in that point?

[outoforder]

It is not like many players thought that Fitz is mafia and Cassielle/KidAmn/momo are town. I was arguing for that. Noone else was.

[outoforder]

Kiddamn Momo and Cass were all almost lock town by the end of d3. I waffled on cass but your town case on him was really good

Yes, but not for other people. Add Kop there you you get a possible disorder.
And fuck you man, they were because i told you why, at least Cass.
momo was never ever a "no-lynch" to you, the only reason anyone he was town was because i figured out why he didn't shoot Kop. Don't even try to claim otherwise.

[outoforder]

Kiddamn Momo and Cass were all almost lock town by the end of d3. I waffled on cass but your town case on him was really good

I dont believe you Rels. If you believe this you always vote for Fitz because i argued all this.
You did however not, you jsut unvoted..

[outoforder]

Kiddamn Momo and Cass were all almost lock town by the end of d3. I waffled on cass but your town case on him was really good

Yes, but not for other people. Add Kop there you you get a possible disorder.
And fuck you man, they were because i told you why, at least Cass.
momo was never ever a "no-lynch" to you, the only reason anyone he was town was because i figured out why he didn't shoot Kop. Don't even try to claim otherwise.

I claim otherwise. Never momo gets lynched before Fitz / you. Not with Hawk's first case + doom sper townie play + I checked his meta and his lazyness was not scum indicative.

You never argued this aswell.

[outoforder]

Well your RL woulsn't have saved me from cass and kidamn (and idk why from BV) but it's good you had sex :p
I wish i had too.

[outoforder]

+ doom s read being so all over the place is very hard to fake for a bad scum, which he is, his only other game was pretty bad

??

[outoforder]

Ah not partners with doom. Yes i figured that out too easily.

[outoforder]

I just had to tell momo is not mafia with different things because people thought he was.
I managed to do that imo on D3.

[outoforder]

Like srsly guys, momo was so easy town after Kop kill. 100%.

[outoforder]

oh well gg's i am off.