[Game Over] Newbie 1784 - Escape Room

[Loopdan]

VOTE: Srceenplay For failing to use spelling autocorrect.

I claim not BP.

Everyone needs to make their BP or notBP claims immediately. Do this in your first post. Do not stall. Do not claim or hint at any other roles you may have and don't hint that you do

not

have a power role.

[Loopdan]

VOTE: Stealthynoodle

[Loopdan]

Does that mean you are explicitly not claiming BP or that you are refusing to make a claim one way or another?

[Loopdan]

@nancy I agree that this strat is not the best way to introduce newbies to the game, but I'm not the IC (and neither are you). Your wincon should take precedence over your desire to teach newbs. I get opposing the BP claim strat if the claims hadn't started yet, but with 6/9 already claiming it only helps scum to have incomplete claims.

Also, this would not detract from RVS if you would have followed instructions and claimed in your first post.

@srceen-- you too

I refuse to vote anywhere else but non-claimers until this is resolved.

VOTE: nancy

[Loopdan]

explain your votes from earlier

I like early wagons.

[Loopdan]

@nancy-- I just finished a Newbie where 2/9 refused to claim BP day1. I replaced in half way through day1 and forced the issue and we lynched them back to back for a perfect town win.

I want this done soon so we can move on. Right now it's distracting.

[Loopdan]

If you agree it shouldn't be done but do it anyway, that's appeasing.

Do you not see how regardless of your alignment it is anti-town to refuse the BP claims when others have already done it?

[Loopdan]

Getting a vibe that at least one scum is on nancy right now, maybe both.

Can you explain this vibe?

[Loopdan]

I have already stated that I believe teaching takes precedence over win-con.

Then you should be force-replaced.

But I'd rather your slot not be derphammered.

VOTE: Srceen

[Loopdan]

I don't see why.

Forcing everyone to claim removes scum's ability to fake claim BP. If there is a BP claim without a counterclaim it provides town with a conftown who takes two shots to kill. Numbers-wise this doesn't give an extra mislynch but it does give a town voice to rally around.

If there is no BP claim we will claim tracker next. If there is a tracker we let the unclaimed doc protect tracker and we play "follow the tracker." And that's it. No more claims beyond BP and tracker (and only tracker if there is no BP claim).

[Loopdan]

As a matter of fact, Loopdan, an IC in another newbie game has already made all the arguments that I have.

If you are talking about rb he was scum and we lynched him day1 for this.

[Loopdan]

Whatever. It's obvious I'm VT anyway from this whole stupid thing.

Explain why you felt it necessary to state anything other than "I am not BP."

[Loopdan]

Your VT claim is not consistent for someone who is concerned with teaching new players how to play.

[Loopdan]

@Pine-- Talk to me about nancy's play here.

[Loopdan]

Pine's activity level here is not great for an IC. I'm waiting for Pine to talk to me about nancy. Until then I don't really want discuss too much.

[Loopdan]

@nancy-- Have you received any private communication from our mod about you not playing to your win condition?

[Loopdan]

VOTE: Pine

I'd also be ok with a Nancy lynch.

And I'm not tracker.

[Loopdan]

Tes and noodle are screaming town to me.

[Loopdan]

Sometimes votes are for lynching. Sometimes they are for pressure. Sometimes for gauging reactions of the voted players or others.

My pine vote is multipurpose.

[Loopdan]

@nancy-- I'm getting the feeling you already know the answer.

@mod-- I'm voting pine.

[Loopdan]

@nancy-- What theory am I pushing? Which of Tes and Noodle is "objectively obvscum"?

Also, you are mistaken about the role of SE players in the Newbie Queue. SE's have no obligation to teach. If anything, SE's not playing hard for wincon hurts Newbie games.

[Loopdan]

@nancy-- What do you make of Cog's reasoning for why you are town? Do you agree that the post below is "a post no mafia would make"?

nancy

@nancy how does claiming BP or not BP f up RVS?

Look at this thread for evidence. RVS has been stilted by the philosophical differences in your insistence that people claim and my refusal to claim. Discussing theory at this point is not at all conducive to scumhunting, which is what we should be doing and which is what RVS is designed to facilitate.

Ok, you're town. (Not just for this post, but this sticks out to me as a post no mafia would make)

[Loopdan]

Loopdan

: Talk to me about Chronicle. What's your read?

Without going back and re-reading, my thoughts are pretty null. I haven't put much effort into sorting the slot.

[Loopdan]

@nancy-- So was there a difference between how Tes and Noodle dealt with the claiming strategy and the way I dealt with it? Because we all pushed hard that it be done.

[Loopdan]

We have moved into "or so."

[Loopdan]

@Cog -- It's been a busy weekend. In general I'm confused why the other two most experienced players in the game are reading Noodle and Tes completely opposite from how I read them. I think both noodle and tes are conveying townie thought processes, yet both nancy and pine have made remarks about how bad it is that I read them both as town. I don't know if that means my reads are off, their reads are off, if one of them is scum and the other's reads are off, or if they are both scum. I'm usually pretty good at finding town, so this is sticking out to me.

I'll catch up on everything and post some more thoughts later.

[Loopdan]

Reasons I'm wary of nancy:
1. Her refusal to claim and the continual arguments over the strategy
2. Making a huge deal about being all about teaching newbies over wincon
3. For arguing pretty much exactly what scum in my last Newbie argued when opposing the BP claim strat day1.
4. For the VT claim out of nowhere that is in no way pro-town (the post does look like legit frustration, but that doesn't mean it's town frustration)
5. On the other hand 316 looks like fake frustration

On the other hand:
1. nancy's answer to me in 385 looks town. Like if she is scum that is seriously good buddying. I disagree with the rest of 385 where she tries to explain why she was "obviously" VT, but I can see the reasoning possibly coming from town.
2. I don't agree with 150, but that looks like town.
3. When she's not arguing about the claiming strat, there is some hunting and evidence of an uninformed mindset (ex:158, 160, 170)

@Nancy-- I really want a more in-depth read from you on Pine. I don't have much insight on his alignment. And you had an early TR on him, which you've only explained as...

Why are you so sure pine is town? He made only a few posts and they were simply to defend you. I'm just interested in hearing your reasoning

Pine and I are friends, and I like to think I can get a pretty good read on him early on. Combination of gut and recognizing patterns.

What patterns?

[Loopdan]

I would warn against using meta (unless it's meta where you were in the game), but since some of you stalkers like digging into my past, here's a list:

[Loopdan]

Regarding your Loopdan, it's fine research. I agree he's more silent here than in previous games, though I don't think it's a good enough reason to consider him scummy. Might come in handy later on though.

To compare:
Newbie 1739(VT)- 52 of the 382 first posts were his (counting from post 150, when he replaced)
Newbie 1746(VT) - 49 of the 382 first posts were his.
Newbie 1767(BP) - 46 of the 382 first posts were his.
This game - 24 of the 382 first posts were his.

Why did you choose these three games to compare?

[Loopdan]

@Pine

&

@Cog

-- We still need your Tracker or not-Tracker claims.

[Loopdan]

@WhyMafia
Discussing ongoing games is prohibited, even if they are on another site.

MiniDeathStar:

Please don't respond to violating posts in the game thread. Report them directly to me!

[Loopdan]

VOTE: WhyMafia

I don't like his last five posts at all. Trying to look like casual town, but obviously cares how other's view his slot.

[Loopdan]

@WhyMafia-- In post 525 you linked to an ongoing game on another site. That's what I was talking about.

[Loopdan]

Not when you lynch scum

Quickhammer me
I dare you

Let's see who's right

^not a town post

[Loopdan]

My TR on Noodle is fading.

[Loopdan]

My TR on Noodle is fading.

Why

I didn't like "welcome to the top of my readslist." I mean it wasn't terrible, but it wasn't great. Walking back from it in 500, after questioned by Tes, wasn't great either.

547 looks like acting.
548 is cheerleading.

Like I said, not terrible, but the TR has lost some of it's shine.

[Loopdan]

So what was that?

[Loopdan]

The only way I can see Chronicle being scum is with Pine

Why?

Also still waiting on your explanation of your pine TR.

[Loopdan]

I'm here. Why do you need me to respond to the claim? We have a confirmed doc-tracker setup (unless there's a CC) and now we play follow the tracker.

I'll vote Why, Pine, or Nancy.

[Loopdan]

Before Pine was being replaced I preferred a WhyMafia lynch because given nancy and pine's close relationship it's likely that if one of them is town they will accurately read the other at some point in the game. I've had success with forcing close players to read each other. But with pine being replaced that is lost.

@nancy-- Please explain your pine vote and then unvote.

[Loopdan]

That was unexpected.

[Loopdan]

Your only case on me, Noodle, is some garbage about how I must have lied about not knowing that I was an SE before immediately correcting myself (because that's totally a thing that futhers scum win-con????) and that my focus on teaching and gameplay rather than on gearing up the game with claims is playing against my win-con, both of which are completely unsubstantiated nonsense, and that I was somehow dodging your questions despite having already answered them and despite having produced more content so far than several other slots on the table /combined/. Your scumread on me is vacuous and lazy and if you want to not be lynched you should get off your ass and expend a little more than the modicum of effort I've seen from you so far.

I kept my scumread of Pine secret for reasons that I've already stated in the /same paragraph/ as where I stated that I had kept it secret.

You cannot dance with a scum if they do not think you are Town.

I considered waiting until after you had posted, Drixx, but I weighed the pros and cons decided I was fine with making the post. Thoughts on Noodle, Tes, and the gamestate, please.

Nancy explain the bold part.

[Loopdan]

I won't get lynched.

I feel certain I won't get lynched.

This is why I said you were behaving like caught scum, ftr Noodle. The only way you soft PR like this is if you are scum because if you were actually a PR you would be trying to get the wagon off you so that you didn't have to claim, not sitting back and refusing to engage with people at risk of getting run up to L-1.

I disagree. I've seen newer players soft claim at the first sniff of a wagon on them.

[Loopdan]

Nancy, how is Noodle scum if you have secretly been scumreading pine and pine was voting noodle and pine never buses?

[Loopdan]

It's horrible play by Town.

That doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Or that it is scum motivated.

[Loopdan]

you are squarely within my lynchpool as you stand right now.

Didn't you recently say I was a TR?

[Loopdan]

Also I think the bolded part in 706 reveals a scum POV.

VOTE: nancy

[Loopdan]

I hardclaim 1-shot Bulletproof and you can kindly get yourself fucking lynched, Loopdan.

...uh no.

Whatever. It's obvious I'm VT anyway from this whole stupid thing.

Essentially it was obvious (although in retrospect, only to the more experienced players) because of the way I'd fought the claim situation. If I were a PR, I would never have put myself into the spotlight in that way. Placing myself squarely at the center of the gamestate without caring for the consequences is really only something a VT ever does, because a VT has little to lose whereas a PR has to play carefully to avoid being run up and forced to claim.

Between this and "I was secretly scumreading Pine" it's pretty obvious nancy is caught scum.

[Loopdan]

Your only case on me, Noodle, is some garbage about how I must have lied about not knowing that I was an SE before immediately correcting myself (because that's totally a thing that futhers scum win-con????) and that my focus on teaching and gameplay rather than on gearing up the game with claims is playing against my win-con, both of which are completely unsubstantiated nonsense, and that I was somehow dodging your questions despite having already answered them and despite having produced more content so far than several other slots on the table /combined/. Your scumread on me is vacuous and lazy and if you want to not be lynched you should get off your ass and expend a little more than the modicum of effort I've seen from you so far.

I kept my scumread of Pine secret for reasons that I've already stated in the /same paragraph/ as where I stated that I had kept it secret.

You cannot dance with a scum if they do not think you are Town.

I considered waiting until after you had posted, Drixx, but I weighed the pros and cons decided I was fine with making the post. Thoughts on Noodle, Tes, and the gamestate, please.

I'll explain why the bold part is scummy.

Scum knows who is town, so the statement makes no sense. Town!nancy would not mistakenly say that she had to get pine!scum to think she is town, because town!nancy would have in mind that scum already knows her alignment. However, it is more likely that scum!nancy would make this mistake, as she has to put herself in the mindset of herself being town and "scum reading" pine, who she then has to convince that she is town (in her mind nancy knows she is scum and so even though she is trying to put herself in a town mindset here she can't help but think about being townread by pine).

[Loopdan]

Because that means we have no doc to protect the tracker. Am I wrong?

This is the only thing that gives me pause about a nancy lynch. I fully expected Noodle to CC nancy here.

And if he isn't then town!nancy jumping on his soft-claim makes sense.

[Loopdan]

Please, thoughts on this.

I think we should leave it to the doc to decide if they want to counterclaim. If I was doc I wouldn't CC. I'd just try to get nancy lynched.

[Loopdan]

I fully expected Noodle to CC nancy here.

So you thought I also claimed not to be BP, to ruin the strategy then? Is that even accepted townplay? I can't see any other result of this than maybe ending up counterclaiming scum, while one guarantees a tracker's death (as soon as he claims).

CC meaning claiming doc which is a role that is impossible to exist with the BP.

[Loopdan]

However, it is more likely that scum!nancy would make this mistake, as she has to put herself in the mindset of herself being town and "scum reading" pine, who she then has to convince that she is town

I see your thinking, but it's probably just as likely it's a typo.

It's not a reason I'd lynch for by itself but it caught my eye.

[Loopdan]

@nancy-- Do you have any crumbs for your BP claim?

[Loopdan]

I don't see a counterclaim.

UNVOTE:

@Noodle-- Explain why you softed a PR.

@Drixx-- Answer nancy's question about why you scumread me.

@nancy-- We need to talk in post-game about how you played day1. This was far from optimal.

[Loopdan]

How many votes on Drixx?
Consider mine there.

[Loopdan]

VOTE: Drixx

L-1

@nancy-- Your unvote on Drixx makes no sense. You've been scum-reading Pine all game right? And Drixx has done nothing. Then you unvote because you don't like the wagon that has conftown on it?

[Loopdan]

@chronicle even now, my gut is screaming that nancy's scum. I'm waiting for doc to claim before deadline.

Marking this post for later. Someone remind me to talk about it before EoD (but not now).

[Loopdan]

You trying to rush to Night, Loop?

You trying for a no-lynch, nan?

Do you realize how close we are to deadline?

[Loopdan]

@nancy-- Obviously I don't think you want a no-lynch. I'm pointing out how stupid your "You trying to rush to night?" comment was, not throwing shade that you are scummy. Take note of the fact that so many think that you are playing scummy. If you weren't conftown as unCC'ed PR, you'd likely have been lynched today, so stop the confbias or you're going to ruin this game.

[Loopdan]

You have done nothing actually pro-town all game

See your inability to see how I've been attempting to sort players is why I say you are confbiasing. I'll give you that your jump off SRing pine/Drixx doesn't indicate confbias. But I just can't see your thinking here.

[Loopdan]

Sorry for site flaking. Some stuff came up and I'm going to have to be VLA until the 19th. If you'd prefer I replace out I'm fine with that.