world.createNew(Utopia everHope); - EPILOGUE (GAME OVER!)

[drealmerz7]

wow

if a doc doesn't get lynched it does NOT necessarily mean they are scum if they don't die at Night

JKs, BGs, redirector's, WIFOM and more

ugh

[MariaR]

Also I have no way of proving this but I would have loved to be lolbussing Maria this game and with a wagon like this on her I would definitely be a part of it.

Oh same it'd be hella fun to have a bus contest to see who wins

[RadiantTroubadour]

Gerry you are who I want to talk to.

Spoiler: Clumsy case

As for why Clumsy is scum specifically? Let's take a look.

1) Almost nil game related content in their ISO.

There is a fuckton of active lurking, a fuckton of buddying, but almost no actual game related content in their iso. I'm going to go through the entire game and pin out the parts where they actually give thoughts on other people for alignment indicative reasons. It won't take long.

I'm not liking Rautherdir so far. His posts are coming off awkwardly. Anyone played with him before?

Iso #7 and he finally gives a read on someone and it's to call them 'awkward' then immediately ask for a second opinion.

Fair. I hate earlygame.

VOTE: Mariar

No opinion on the Maria vote.

All of these responses are terrible. It's an early wagon on day 1, and it's IMMEDIATELY AtE. I think my vote is staying here today unless I'm really convinced about someone else.

Clumsy knows that Maria is known for AtE, this isn't a thing.
And 'oh my vote is staying here unless I'm really convinced'? That's a scum qualifier, through and through. And do you really think town!Clumsy declares intent to deathtunnel this early?

drealmerz7 not doing anything day 1 is NAI. I'm a bit wary of Gerry here, but MariaR stands out the most.

why?

I really really don't like this post at all. Radiant, you've played with Maria before, I have not, you said the AtE isn't alignment indicative from them? That's still screaming at me.

Proxying their opinion on Maria's reads to me. The frequency of them doing stuff like this suggests that they aren't comfortable generating their own reads.
I further read this as an attempt to gauge my willingness to get back on the wagon to determine whether they want to stay there; regardless of Maria's alignment.
Note in spite of putting this as 'alignment indicative' it's only such in the absolute loosest sense because all he does is say that Maria's scummy because of AtE.

Wtf why are you claiming this? There's no reason to do so, you're just giving scum info here. If this is true, just wtf

This is a super, super, super hard buddy tell by the way.

Wow.
VOTE: Coke and Pepsiman

Should be L-2 but I don't think anyone should care. I'm interested in the MariaR v Gerry, but we deal with this first.

That move makes Bulge town I think. I skimmed Kid's catchup, I like it but I have a bad habit of townreading catchup posts in general.

Been over this before but it's really dirty.
1) Frames the discussion to continue the Maria BS tomorrow.
2) Calls Bulge town for virtually nothing, no explanation. Gives a really qualified TR on Kid with a really weird qualifier that doesn't make much sense.

So correct me if I'm wrong here, but the progression was "We're Masons", to "We have role flavor that confirms us as town together" to "We are Lovers"? Yeah no, that backpedaling is gross.

This was never ever backpedalling: even I agreed that Cloud didn't understand his role PM. even I agreed that he was town.
It's also really telling that his explanation of the scumread on Alihydra comes AFTER the fact of the vote.

Anyone that isn't on the Pepsiman wagon: do you town read them? If so, why? If not, why aren't you voting them after fake claiming Masons?

Also I feel like half the game is missing.

Again he's framing this as 'LYNCH THEM FOR FAKE CLAIMING MASONS'. Fakeclaiming masons isn't scummy. AtEing isn't scummy. Ali was scumread for their behaviour not the claim and it's a really scummy way to dumb down the discussion and reduce it to a sound byte. It reminds me of JJD in 1875 pushing on me for 'claiming cop D1' while ignoring the complexities.

If we have a vig, can they shoot either BTD6 or Pine please? I love Pine, but they've been doing nothing in games lately, and in Darkest Dungeon where he seemed to start this, his slot was scum. Makes it hard to read him. Rauth, where are your thoughts with the game right now? Have a better vote than no lynch?

Also want to point out that he, in reaction to a vig being brought up, immediately tries to leash it onto lurkers.

Math, can you talk to me more about RT? I've been townreading them, and I don't have experience with Gigabyte (that I know of at least). Is your opening post about them all you're going on?

Also, are you sure about Maria? I was told this play was normal and town from someone (on mobile or I'd check)

Again trying to proxy their read out and use Math as an excuse to change their read on me.

The RC reaction seems really over the top and unwarranted. Math hasn't done anything to slight him in this game. I don't get it. -shrug-

We seem to have quite a few players that seem to not be here. I forgot some were in the game at all.


I'm reading through links right now, but I'm also cool with Maria wagon I think. Who was it that told me I was wrong with my Maria scumread Day 1? Why was that again?

Using a clearly NAI rant that was brought out by stuff outside of the game and was obviously so as an excuse to scumread us is awful.
Also feels like they're trying to tie me to Maria which feels really bad.

Hello, made myself some popcorn and am ready to play.

So I see my slot has never had a vote on them..Any reason why.

Also, I am going to do an ubiased vca...

Pine was completely MIA this game, and Day One was... a thing.

~My case on Kid will come tomorrow or something.

Looking forward to this case.

Because MariaR has a defined tell which I outed and arguments for Clumsy scum rely on a bus so then MariaR has to be scum for Clumsy in those arguments to be but MariaR Clumsy Town can be a thing.

KidAmn read is now null scumlean

I'm gonna need explanation on that Kid read.

I'm not completely seeing the Scum!RT case here. I believe MariaR has 3 or 4 on her right now.
VOTE: MariaR

Wagon on me dies, jumps on Maria with minimal explanation.

Please address this. You agree that Clumsy is scum: you should also agree that Maria is so widely scumread that they are getting lynched at some point this game if they don't force scum to nightkill them.
Clumsy is the correct vote and if Maria is town then you are too and we need you over here because if I get nightkilled you are probably next.

There's no way that this is a town motivated wagon with how fast it popped up and if you're town you should know that Maria is town.
Vote Clumsy.

[RadiantTroubadour]

wow

if a doc doesn't get lynched it does NOT necessarily mean they are scum if they don't die at Night

JKs, BGs, redirector's, WIFOM and more

ugh

Never said that. But they're still worth keeping around to see if I'm right. And if I'm right on Clumsy and the entire gamestate then scum will absolutely need to take one of us out tomorrow and that will reveal loads.

[RadiantTroubadour]

Gerry you are who I want to talk to.

Spoiler: Clumsy case

As for why Clumsy is scum specifically? Let's take a look.

1) Almost nil game related content in their ISO.

There is a fuckton of active lurking, a fuckton of buddying, but almost no actual game related content in their iso. I'm going to go through the entire game and pin out the parts where they actually give thoughts on other people for alignment indicative reasons. It won't take long.

I'm not liking Rautherdir so far. His posts are coming off awkwardly. Anyone played with him before?

Iso #7 and he finally gives a read on someone and it's to call them 'awkward' then immediately ask for a second opinion.

Fair. I hate earlygame.

VOTE: Mariar

No opinion on the Maria vote.

All of these responses are terrible. It's an early wagon on day 1, and it's IMMEDIATELY AtE. I think my vote is staying here today unless I'm really convinced about someone else.

Clumsy knows that Maria is known for AtE, this isn't a thing.
And 'oh my vote is staying here unless I'm really convinced'? That's a scum qualifier, through and through. And do you really think town!Clumsy declares intent to deathtunnel this early?

drealmerz7 not doing anything day 1 is NAI. I'm a bit wary of Gerry here, but MariaR stands out the most.

why?

I really really don't like this post at all. Radiant, you've played with Maria before, I have not, you said the AtE isn't alignment indicative from them? That's still screaming at me.

Proxying their opinion on Maria's reads to me. The frequency of them doing stuff like this suggests that they aren't comfortable generating their own reads.
I further read this as an attempt to gauge my willingness to get back on the wagon to determine whether they want to stay there; regardless of Maria's alignment.
Note in spite of putting this as 'alignment indicative' it's only such in the absolute loosest sense because all he does is say that Maria's scummy because of AtE.

Wtf why are you claiming this? There's no reason to do so, you're just giving scum info here. If this is true, just wtf

This is a super, super, super hard buddy tell by the way.

Wow.
VOTE: Coke and Pepsiman

Should be L-2 but I don't think anyone should care. I'm interested in the MariaR v Gerry, but we deal with this first.

That move makes Bulge town I think. I skimmed Kid's catchup, I like it but I have a bad habit of townreading catchup posts in general.

Been over this before but it's really dirty.
1) Frames the discussion to continue the Maria BS tomorrow.
2) Calls Bulge town for virtually nothing, no explanation. Gives a really qualified TR on Kid with a really weird qualifier that doesn't make much sense.

So correct me if I'm wrong here, but the progression was "We're Masons", to "We have role flavor that confirms us as town together" to "We are Lovers"? Yeah no, that backpedaling is gross.

This was never ever backpedalling: even I agreed that Cloud didn't understand his role PM. even I agreed that he was town.
It's also really telling that his explanation of the scumread on Alihydra comes AFTER the fact of the vote.

Anyone that isn't on the Pepsiman wagon: do you town read them? If so, why? If not, why aren't you voting them after fake claiming Masons?

Also I feel like half the game is missing.

Again he's framing this as 'LYNCH THEM FOR FAKE CLAIMING MASONS'. Fakeclaiming masons isn't scummy. AtEing isn't scummy. Ali was scumread for their behaviour not the claim and it's a really scummy way to dumb down the discussion and reduce it to a sound byte. It reminds me of JJD in 1875 pushing on me for 'claiming cop D1' while ignoring the complexities.

If we have a vig, can they shoot either BTD6 or Pine please? I love Pine, but they've been doing nothing in games lately, and in Darkest Dungeon where he seemed to start this, his slot was scum. Makes it hard to read him. Rauth, where are your thoughts with the game right now? Have a better vote than no lynch?

Also want to point out that he, in reaction to a vig being brought up, immediately tries to leash it onto lurkers.

Math, can you talk to me more about RT? I've been townreading them, and I don't have experience with Gigabyte (that I know of at least). Is your opening post about them all you're going on?

Also, are you sure about Maria? I was told this play was normal and town from someone (on mobile or I'd check)

Again trying to proxy their read out and use Math as an excuse to change their read on me.

The RC reaction seems really over the top and unwarranted. Math hasn't done anything to slight him in this game. I don't get it. -shrug-

We seem to have quite a few players that seem to not be here. I forgot some were in the game at all.


I'm reading through links right now, but I'm also cool with Maria wagon I think. Who was it that told me I was wrong with my Maria scumread Day 1? Why was that again?

Using a clearly NAI rant that was brought out by stuff outside of the game and was obviously so as an excuse to scumread us is awful.
Also feels like they're trying to tie me to Maria which feels really bad.

Hello, made myself some popcorn and am ready to play.

So I see my slot has never had a vote on them..Any reason why.

Also, I am going to do an ubiased vca...

Pine was completely MIA this game, and Day One was... a thing.

~My case on Kid will come tomorrow or something.

Looking forward to this case.

Because MariaR has a defined tell which I outed and arguments for Clumsy scum rely on a bus so then MariaR has to be scum for Clumsy in those arguments to be but MariaR Clumsy Town can be a thing.

KidAmn read is now null scumlean

I'm gonna need explanation on that Kid read.

I'm not completely seeing the Scum!RT case here. I believe MariaR has 3 or 4 on her right now.
VOTE: MariaR

Wagon on me dies, jumps on Maria with minimal explanation.

Please address this. You agree that Clumsy is scum: you should also agree that Maria is so widely scumread that they are getting lynched at some point this game if they don't force scum to nightkill them.
Clumsy is the correct vote and if Maria is town then you are too and we need you over here because if I get nightkilled you are probably next.

There's no way that this is a town motivated wagon with how fast it popped up and if you're town you should know that Maria is town.
Vote Clumsy.

Math brushed off this Clumsy case with a simple 'nah clumsy isn't scum'. I invite everyone in this game to read Clumsy's ISO and determine if they think there is any justification for Math actually 'townreading' them.
Thinking that Maria is a better wagon? Sure. But actually townreading Clumsy's ISO is basically impossible FMPOV

[drealmerz7]

quit telling ppl "clumsy is the correct vote" and "clumsy is the lynch today" and "TRing clumsy's ISO is impossible" - can you make an actual case on clumsy that has to do with clumsy?

[RadiantTroubadour]

Kid, I am expecting you to change votes on principle because I think that you should see right through what's going on. If I need to give you something more, let me know.

Random, same goes.

[drealmerz7]

to see if I'm right.

because it's ALL ABOUT YOU

[RadiantTroubadour]

I have a clumsy case. Read the spoilers. They have produced almost zilch game related content, repeatedly call on other people to justify their read changes, have batshit reads for NAI reasons, what few reads they've given don't make sense and feel like reactions to the gamestate and are based off of unjustifiably bad logic, and they hopped onto the wagon at EOD with no reasoning then immediately jumped onto my wagon then Maria's wagon today with little to no reasoning again. It's transparent scum play.

[MathBlade]

PvP. Why do you think my scum games go so well Math? I've lost 2 scum games in my life. It's because I play like how I would as town I know what I would do as town and I do that action in PyP I wasn't trying at all I knew I was going to be lynched at some point so I stopped trying and let my team bus me I went down for my team does it look like I'm not trying here? Can you quote a few posts of mine that ping you and why, I don't want you to unvote on my doc claim nor should anyone they should keep the vote if they sr me, Where do you get this idea that I'm a reads 100% of the time type of gal I have my few reads and I've outted them the rest are null if I have a read I'll say it I can't help if reads don't come to me.

Do you think RT is scum trying to defend me? If so why would RT defend my slot as my scum partner instead of joining my wagon for barely any backlash why couldn't it be scum RT defending me per say? And the last one is just personal pref
Pedit: I have given you my reads a few posts ago. RT town Gerry Town BTD Town (Because of Vifam it feels like smackdown him) Clum scum.

I think your scum games went okay. Mainly good NK/lucky vigs . If Titus wasn't killed in PYP I think you guys would have been steamrolled. Without any reads here it doesn't. In Civ and Thing they were candy.

For example: viewtopic.php?p=8455362#p8455362

Posts like that I look for in a game. I don't see you having conviction anywhere.

In regards to RC I had a scumread then at the start of the day but with how RC is posting it is impossible to sort him by reading his posts. And the actions left of trying to save someone who if Town is going to die tonight anyway is bad. Like if you're scum you should be lynched. Town doc you die.

I don't see what RC is doing here and even if we went only off actions like RC suggested your claim should make you lynched.

[drealmerz7]

anyway

RT, MB, gerry, maria, and myself, just need to step back

and other people need to GET IN THE FUCKING GAME already (kid and rm are doing OK, but the rest, are lurk-fucks that need to help rebalance this shitstorm)

[Clumsy]

nice fake claim, RT. Still lynching Maria.

If you really were parity cop you wouldnt say that maria is town and when clumsy is lynched i'm being lynched. lol

I'm reading now, but I'm busy tonight. On phone. Just pointing this out. Gerry is absolutely right here, that claim is 100% fake. The fear mongering is real. I'll get to the wall about me when I'm back to computer, but there's so much wrong with it.


P-edit LET ME POST

[RadiantTroubadour]

to see if I'm right.

because it's ALL ABOUT YOU

I never said it's all about me. Lynching a doctor on day 2 is a terrible idea regardless of who supports and doesn't support it. I'm just hoping that Kid Random Gerry show up and help me out.

Lol what the fuck? If we make scum kill someone that we would otherwise lynch it saves us a mislynch. That's not tenable logic.

You're literally just saying that since Maria is going to die anyway if they're town we should lynch them anyway and blow our mislynch on someone who is dealt with anyway.

Like that's literally the opposite of what your claimed logic should lead you to, conclusion wise.

[RadiantTroubadour]

I don't see what RC is doing here and even if we went only off actions like RC suggested your claim should make you lynched.

MathBlade: We should lynch all PR claims because they are going to die anyway. That is literally what this post says.

[MathBlade]

wow

if a doc doesn't get lynched it does NOT necessarily mean they are scum if they don't die at Night

JKs, BGs, redirector's, WIFOM and more

ugh

Never said that. But they're still worth keeping around to see if I'm right. And if I'm right on Clumsy and the entire gamestate then scum will absolutely need to take one of us out tomorrow and that will reveal loads.

I did and I mean it.

I don't see a world if MariaR is town she lives to tomorrow. Yes there could be other roles but I don't see them saving such a clearly scum player.

[MathBlade]

I don't see what RC is doing here and even if we went only off actions like RC suggested your claim should make you lynched.

MathBlade: We should lynch all PR claims because they are going to die anyway. That is literally what this post says.

Not all. But a protective more often than not yes.

Because a protective gains its power from being secret.

[RadiantTroubadour]

wow

if a doc doesn't get lynched it does NOT necessarily mean they are scum if they don't die at Night

JKs, BGs, redirector's, WIFOM and more

ugh

Never said that. But they're still worth keeping around to see if I'm right. And if I'm right on Clumsy and the entire gamestate then scum will absolutely need to take one of us out tomorrow and that will reveal loads.

I did and I mean it.

I don't see a world if MariaR is town she lives to tomorrow. Yes there could be other roles but I don't see them saving such a clearly scum player.

Hold on you just said that scum WOULD NOT DEFEND MARIA... but you're calling me scum FOR DEFENDING MARIA.

[RadiantTroubadour]

I don't see what RC is doing here and even if we went only off actions like RC suggested your claim should make you lynched.

MathBlade: We should lynch all PR claims because they are going to die anyway. That is literally what this post says.

Not all. But a protective more often than not yes.

Because a protective gains its power from being secret.

How in any way does a protective gain its power from being secret? Protectives don't protect themselves. Even if we leash them onto someone that still guarantees that one universally townread person lives.

This logic does not parse whatsoever.

[drealmerz7]

You're literally just saying that since Maria is going to die anyway if they're town we should lynch them anyway and blow our mislynch on someone who is dealt with anyway.

Like that's literally the opposite of what your claimed logic should lead you to, conclusion wise.

it's like you can't read

oh, wait, no, it's like you're scum you is twisting things to serve your agenda

that's not what I said at all, btw, but way to try to understand *sarcasm*

[MathBlade]

Most protective claims are the shit claims. MariaR has been around enough to know people don't instantly vote protective claims.

I have hammered fake claiming Jailkeepers as a bodyguard and took the damn night kill day one.

If you are protective you shut the fuck up.

[RadiantTroubadour]

Like she's not claiming bulletproof where there's a legit 'HEY THAT SHIT NEEDS TO BE SECRET ' component. She is claiming Doctor which allows her to protect a DIFFERENT player. There's no lost value in her being outed except that she gets nightkilled.

Which going off of your logic is a GOOD thing because you think she's scum and it saves us a mislynch.

[MariaR]

PvP. Why do you think my scum games go so well Math? I've lost 2 scum games in my life. It's because I play like how I would as town I know what I would do as town and I do that action in PyP I wasn't trying at all I knew I was going to be lynched at some point so I stopped trying and let my team bus me I went down for my team does it look like I'm not trying here? Can you quote a few posts of mine that ping you and why, I don't want you to unvote on my doc claim nor should anyone they should keep the vote if they sr me, Where do you get this idea that I'm a reads 100% of the time type of gal I have my few reads and I've outted them the rest are null if I have a read I'll say it I can't help if reads don't come to me.

Do you think RT is scum trying to defend me? If so why would RT defend my slot as my scum partner instead of joining my wagon for barely any backlash why couldn't it be scum RT defending me per say? And the last one is just personal pref
Pedit: I have given you my reads a few posts ago. RT town Gerry Town BTD Town (Because of Vifam it feels like smackdown him) Clum scum.

I think your scum games went okay. Mainly good NK/lucky vigs . If Titus wasn't killed in PYP I think you guys would have been steamrolled. Without any reads here it doesn't. In Civ and Thing they were candy.

For example: viewtopic.php?p=8455362#p8455362

Posts like that I look for in a game. I don't see you having conviction anywhere.

In regards to RC I had a scumread then at the start of the day but with how RC is posting it is impossible to sort him by reading his posts. And the actions left of trying to save someone who if Town is going to die tonight anyway is bad. Like if you're scum you should be lynched. Town doc you die.

I don't see what RC is doing here and even if we went only off actions like RC suggested your claim should make you lynched.

Because I was confident in a read on replacing in here if I wanted could I go into an iso quote some things I find scummy and show them hell yeah I could why am I not doing that? Because I don't want to right now I am drained and building a case isn't something I want to do at the moment so I'm just chatting.

[RadiantTroubadour]

Most protective claims are the shit claims. MariaR has been around enough to know people don't instantly vote protective claims.

I have hammered fake claiming Jailkeepers as a bodyguard and took the damn night kill day one.

If you are protective you shut the fuck up.

Uhh so let me get this straight.

You are claiming that Maria, as town, at L-1, should NOT claim their role regardless of the fact that it might keep them alive BECAUSE you hammered a fake claiming Jailkeeper?

How does that logic make any sense

[RadiantTroubadour]

You're literally just saying that since Maria is going to die anyway if they're town we should lynch them anyway and blow our mislynch on someone who is dealt with anyway.

Like that's literally the opposite of what your claimed logic should lead you to, conclusion wise.

it's like you can't read

oh, wait, no, it's like you're scum you is twisting things to serve your agenda

that's not what I said at all, btw, but way to try to understand *sarcasm*

I WAS NOT TALKING TO YOU I WAS TALKING TO MATHBLADE.

[RadiantTroubadour]

Technically I'm not talking to MathBlade I'm explaining why her claimed thought processes are either scum or come from someone who cannot follow a logical thought process to it's conclusion, but same deal.

Is there anything that you want me to address, Drealmerz7?