Mini 1894: DBZ Abridged Mafia - Arrival To Namek (Game Over)

[Tywin Lannister]

TL;DR: desperado, clumsy, Vifam, or Alisae. Someone else make a case if they have one.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Look. Let's just quicklynch Desperado. He is obviously scum. Socrates was already super town too, so him claiming was useless. I trust him to protect the right person.

We don't need to have an entire discussion, let's keep it short and sweet and take Desperado out and we'll figure out the third one tomorrow.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Not Chara makes a good point about Clumsy stealing the hammer being more likely town. Unfortunately for not chara, that makes not chara more scummy than Clumsy now.

I would say that the likely pairings are:

Desperado+Not Chara
Zefiend+Vifam

[Socrates]

I literally just sprung up from sleep with a thought:

If the player who killed Majiffy received THREE balls, this might very well be the one possible scenario where the town can successfully summon the dragon.

Back to sleep.

[Almost50]

RE: Massclaim, and after reading and considering all arguments, I vote Nay!

Now, Socrates did bring in an interesting idea though, which is the Serial Killer. I was wondering why everyone is assuming Vig and not SK, but I don't know the flavour. him saying a certain character fits the SK role perfectly though makes me thing the SK is a real possibility that we should consider.

@Socrates: You do know you need to pass that ball in case you get NK'd. Right? I mean, I do not necessarily agree your claim was a bad move because I was going to push you if it wasn't for it, but I don't understand why you ALSO claimed you received that ball. Makes you an even bigger target IMHO.

VOTE: Desperado Going to sheep Tywin blatantly here until further notice.

[Clumsy Phoenix]

I have a double today at work, but just popping in real fast here to say 2 things.

1, I had the same thought about the potential SK. But, as said, SK is priority after Mafia.

2, Socrates is now weirding me out, but I think I get where he's coming from. Question for everyone: I townread him hard, how many others townread him before? If it's quite a few, why would he throw that away on what would be a gambit as scum?

[Clumsy Phoenix]

I think our vote going onto Desperado will be L-1, but I'm on mobile, so checking is difficult. Shaz, when you get on today, feel free to put it there if you like.

We also have to discuss who will hammer. And just in case, Don't unvote to the point of removing Desperado from leading wagon.

[Almost50]

I think our vote going onto Desperado will be L-1, but I'm on mobile,

I confirm.

Desperado (4/6): Albert B. Rampage, Alisae, Tywin Lannister, Almost50,

[Not Chara]

i'm not 'owning an SR'. i'm refuting zefiend's point that he was the first player to say something concrete about Majiffy. that's really it.

Yeah, this is why I don't like being shaded. Because your assertions are provably wrong:

Iso Not Chara + zefiend, Ctrl+f "Majiffy":

VOTE: Majiffy

@Tywin I wouldn't mind lynching Vifam

Desperado is pinging me more than Clumsy tbh. Don't really get how ABR pairs them as scum partners. Also not sure how a Clumsy flip would magically solve the game. Lots of people are making some bad pre-flip associations.

Gonna VOTE: Majiffy though. He ignored basically everything about Clumsy and the relevant discussion to post flavor related fluff. It seems like he's brushing off engagement.

i don't want Almost lynched and i don't see a reason to vote ABR. i'd much prefer more players on Majiffy. i want to see Tywin respond to Desperado's 483 before i do anything else on that front.
Phoenix's 448 is what's hurt my townread on the slot the most. not one, but both heads agree with this tell? it's nowhere near a universal tell, and coming from anyone from Socrates is cause enough for me to be suspicious. i'd actually thought there were more players agreeing with this case, but now that i'm looking i think i was wrong.
the only one left is Alisae, who manages to be a frustrating player for me to read whenever i've tried to.

I'm not outright accusing you of doing this intentionally, but it is most certainly a scum tactic to try to twist the interpretation or timeline of events to suit your narrative.

check my post 246.
i link to a post of Majiffy's and explain what i don't like.

this is completely irrelevant to the game now, but i don't like leaving loose ends that make it seem like i don't know what i'm saying. i don't blame you for not seeing it, since it wouldn't show up just by searching Majiffy in my iso.

my list of who i think scum can be is getting shorter. i don't believe zefiend is scum. this isn't as strong a read as i'd like. Tywin isn't scum, and i also don't think Vifam is.
Desperado gives me mixed feelings. i don't hate his approach to Tywin here. i know what i said earlier, but attacking Tywin after the Majiffy flip just doesn't make any sense. scum Desperado would have more sense than that, wouldn't he? pressing someone for more info when you don't understand their reasons is towny. scum choosing to do so here doesn't feel right.

i have a scumteam in mind but i think right now is the wrong time to start theory-crafting. not without seeing the results of night 3.

[Not Chara]

Tywin, every time you say I

have

to die tonight, the easier you are making it for scum to not bother killing me because they could mislynch me tomorrow instead.

I'm not asking you to change your mind, but you should backburner that thought for now.

see, there's the issue.
scum doesn't want their kills to be blocked. leaving a claimed doctor alive to hopefully wifom mislynch them, and risk that doctor protecting the player they try to kill?

it's just better play to kill you, even if they have a roleblocker.

[Almost50]

But not if they have a Strongman. Just saying.

[Almost50]

However, if we consider the SK rather than the Vig, then I suspect it's the SK who has a Strongman modifier (if there's one) and not the main Mafia.

[Not Chara]

true.
but usually Strongman shots are quite limited.

whatever the case, i suppose discussing this further right now is a waste of time.

pedit: why do you say that?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Vote Desperado and make him claim

[Not Chara]

Clumsy can do that if they want to. i'm not convinced.
speaking of Clumsy: i don't know what would prompt Socrates scum to claim here as they did. it could be Tywin calling Socrates a likely Majiffy buddy, or something more elaborate. i don't think their position was secure enough to just not worry about pulling a gambit, no. though i was also townreading them yesterday.

[Not Chara]

i really can't read Alisae. part of me wants to say that scum wouldn't claim to give a dragonball to dead town, in a situation where scum Alisae should have known they weren't in a position to pretend they were a real NK target. i could just leave Alisae at that.

[Almost50]

pedit: why do you say that?

Because it's the common modding meta to give the "lone scumster" the strongman and/or the BP shot for balancing. In larges they receive BOTH even, but this is not a large and if we believe Socrates is a Town Doc then he could not tell the alignment of his target so SK is likely not BP but more likely to have the Strongman.

[Not Chara]

hm. ok, i understand how you came to that conclusion.
my stance on Desperado after looking at him for scum is that i can't find it. i want to see a real Desperado case.
strangely i want to flip him as i think it would go a long way to clarifying this game for me, but i can't justify that when i'm townreading him.

i initially thought his pushing on Tywin was annoyance from scum, in response to Tywin seemingly dropping the Alisae and Socrates scumreads, both perfectly set up, in favour of concentrating on him and myself. now i understand where he's coming from more, after ISOing him again.

[Not Chara]

VOTE: ABR

[Not Chara]

he spent day 1 pushing town and defending scum.

[Tywin Lannister]

I'm confused as to what exactly changed your mind in desperado's ISO, because I read it exactly how you originally did. Idk if ABR is scum or town, but he's not the only one left if so. I also still have not gotten answers from desperado at any point, which you'd not see in just his ISO. He ignores questions directed toward him, so that's a problem. He could fix it anytime, but I'm betting he won't. So now that you claim to understand him, where exactly is he coming from? You can't just say that and not explain it.

Speaking of which...

Who did ABR spend defending and who did he spend attacking? He spent it defending me too technically, although he ignored Majiffy. So which scum did he defend? I know of only one, and ABR just ignored him and said he 'didn't care at all' about the 1v1. That's a bit different than defending scum. If you're found that route, Alisae is the best choice. He definitely defended scum. The rest either ignored scum or slightly defended them. That's everyone in the game really.

[ɀefiend]

Going to be super busy IRL this whole weekend so I'm gonna cram all my thoughts down right now.

- Alisae is the logical continuation from Majiffy's flip. I don't psyche myself out with WIFOM that you perceive to be a logical fallacy, Tywin. If someone was hard-defending scum's positions without directly interacting with them, they are most likely scum. The idea that "someone is experienced enough not to buddy their partner on D1" is a fallacious assumption in its own right because it is easily refuted by: "someone with

enough

experience would do

just what I described

, knowing that others would gloss over it." Instead of playing the guessing game I'm going to interpret what I'm reading at face-value.

- Socrates is playing as though his whole claim/argument thing is a gambit. Whether it's a town gambit or a scum gambit, it will be resolved by Tomorrow, so trying to push through that lynch today is dumb.

- Desperado actually looks like the red herring here, taking the fall for Maria's mislynch. I don't see a concise, discernible case on Desperado anywhere.

- NC's most recent posts are good and bad. I don't really buy the "upon reread, I knew Tywin was town in the 1v1 along!" when they were so "meh" during the actual argument. I do agree with their Desperado assessment and the ABR vote is... interesting. ABR and Alisae are currently voting together, have (as far as I can remember) never interacted with each other, and both exhibit some characteristic scummy traits. ABR is constantly charging ahead with his strongest scumreads, which isn't bad, necessarily. But he's been teflon to anyone else's arguments and concerns, and he hasn't been privy to going into details about his cases. Alisae's voting record speaks for itself, and some of their reactions and emotional-posts seem forced or faked. (What townie screams "fucking jesus" because their reads are simply off?)

- Clumsy-hammering argument is not something I can judge since I don't know either of the hydra. It's definitely weird. It feels like their claim is mostly protecting them from scrutiny, for better or worse.

- Vifam: vig you know what to do.

[Not Chara]

I don't really buy the "upon reread, I knew Tywin was town in the 1v1 along!"

Tywin is town because Majiffy flipped scum, not because i reread during the night.

[Desperado]

Vote Desperado and make him claim

lol

I just expressed interest in a mass claim and im specing a very weak town where doc+vig might be all we have. what on Earth makes you think I'm afraid of claiming?

abr is scum. ali could easily be the third, giving a ball to imperium was bad and his explanation left a lot to be desired.

[Not Chara]

Tywin: have you forgotten ABR asserting time and again that you vs. Majiffy was TvT, and separately, how town Majiffy was?