Mini 1895: Shaziro Mafia - GAME OVER

[Stone Cold]

Look at boon's ISO. I understand this game being slow paced with not a whole lot of discussion, but there has been absolutely no

attempts

at scumhunting. It's been more than inactivity.

So doing nothing is scummier than doing scummy things.

Got it

On d1, it actually is.

IME, scum tends to either

a) lay low

; or

2) town posture like a motherfucker

on d1. The reason d1's tend to be a mislynch is because town thinks they're going to hit scum right off based on superficial behaviors, and that's just naive.

[Stone Cold]

Scum fruit vendor claim only really comes into play when there's only one mafia left. Fruit vendor is usually used as a confirmable night action that proves they aren't the one that made the night kill. Until then, it's NAI.

This logic is terrible.

If there is only one mafia left, the fruit vendor claim doesn't save them. The only way this post makes sense is if he's talking about a Town fruit vendor, not a Mafia fruit vendor.

[Stone Cold]

ironically i started looking at iaws more and a certain part of his post jumped out at me as the part that i viscerally gut townread, and then i looked at drk's post and it's the specific part that she called out as scummy.

It's certainly odd to ask someone else to make a case on someone to justify your continued voting of them; i think if he's town it's sort of his acknowledging his own cognitive dissonance on the matter, and when i read those sentences they just don't sound like something that make sense for scum to type out, look at, say "huh, this sounds like a good idea to say" and then click the submit button. Which is an awful argument in general, but is also bad because i don't know anything of iaws's play and they're new on the site.

This doesn't stop me from still having a visceral reaction to it of "scum wouldn't say this", though.

From a gut feeling-ish point of view, the closest I can remember to feeling something that would make the IAWS post make sense was as scum in my first game on site. I was a bit frustrated and bitter and felt like we'd done so well to get votes on someone and here it was falling apart because of a claim. When people started to unvote, I was just quietly thinking

but you just thought this guy was scum, do you really have to unvote?

I certainly didn't say what IAWS said, but I think I can maybe see how someone in that same situation who thinks a bit differently than I do might wind up doing so. Like, don't get me wrong, if I were to list off things scum might say in that scenario, IAWS's post would probably not make a top 5 list or anything, but it also would very definitely not make a top 5 list of things town would say. I have to run so I don't have time to say much more about this, but I would really like to use the term

Bayes' Theorem

so I'm gonna do that okay bye

This is acting like I'm completely new to mafia, which I'm not, though in your defense you didn't know that. I've been playing mafia on other websites for like 5 years now and I do know what I'm doing (I might suck though). So no, this wasn't me being scum and a newbie.

If you suck, which you admit as a possibility, and you're Scum... your play could well be that of newbscum.

So... I don't get the point of your objection.

[Stone Cold]

He's saying explain how superhans is playing like you would if you were scum

Lots of small, useless comments that give the impression that he's doing a lot more than he is. I call it filler play and it's something I do when I'm scum. I've met plenty of people who do that when they're town, but I suppose Eddie is right; I need to up the pressure.

VOTE: Superhans

Bus vote.

He's using admittedly NAI reasons to vote his buddy so he can justify jumping off later when his own wagon dies down.

[horrordude0215]

Scum fruit vendor claim only really comes into play when there's only one mafia left. Fruit vendor is usually used as a confirmable night action that proves they aren't the one that made the night kill. Until then, it's NAI.

This logic is terrible.

If there is only one mafia left, the fruit vendor claim doesn't save them. The only way this post makes sense is if he's talking about a Town fruit vendor, not a Mafia fruit vendor.

Yeah, my wording may have been off. I was referring to the fact that a fruit vendor is never considered town cleared unless there's only one scum left, someone received a fruit that evening

and

there was a nightkill.

[Stone Cold]

I'm willing to claim if it means proving myself to be town, but I don't know if I should.. advice?

I'm willing to claim if it means proving myself to be town, but I don't know if I should.. advice?

a) on what planet does claiming "prove yourself to be town"
b) don't claim until l-1 lol
c) here is where you make an actual case and vote it or you vote for the other wagon lazily (cd)

a) The same planet where Wheme was 'proved to be town'
b) Wheme claimed
c) Sounds like a copout. Plus, there's been almost no discussion for this past few days by the people that I want to see more of (twoface and superhans), so voting for one of them seems a bit unfair and premature. If I wasn't ready to vote before a wagon formed on me, hopping on another wagon right when it happened would just be something the scum does, in my eyes.

this BLEEDS town. dumb town but town.

Bullshit.

That's scum wanting to mimic the same behavior that derailed WhemeStar's wagon.

Obvious scum is obvious, and IAWS is obvious scum.

[Eddie Cane]

I'm willing to claim if it means proving myself to be town, but I don't know if I should.. advice?

I'm willing to claim if it means proving myself to be town, but I don't know if I should.. advice?

a) on what planet does claiming "prove yourself to be town"
b) don't claim until l-1 lol
c) here is where you make an actual case and vote it or you vote for the other wagon lazily (cd)

a) The same planet where Wheme was 'proved to be town'
b) Wheme claimed
c) Sounds like a copout. Plus, there's been almost no discussion for this past few days by the people that I want to see more of (twoface and superhans), so voting for one of them seems a bit unfair and premature. If I wasn't ready to vote before a wagon formed on me, hopping on another wagon right when it happened would just be something the scum does, in my eyes.

this BLEEDS town. dumb town but town.

Bullshit.

That's

scum

newb wanting to mimic the same behavior that derailed WhemeStar's wagon.

Obvious scum is obvious, and IAWS is obvious scum.

[IAlwaysWinSometimes]

Love how stonecold has ignored DRK's questionable posts. I think a stonecold/DRK scum partnership makes a lot of sense.

[Stone Cold]

Night 1 is now over. Boonskiies was found dead. He was:

Spoiler: Boonskiies' Role PM

You are a

Vanilla Townie

.

Your powers include your voice and your vote! Use them well.

You win the game when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.

Confirm your role by replying to me with your Role and Alignment.

Good luck!

Game thread is at: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=71119&p=9005922#p9005922[/spoiler]

Day 2 begins!

This further supports my IAWS scumread.

[Eddie Cane]

let him finish his catchup before you argue things like that

[IAlwaysWinSometimes]

ok dad

[Eddie Cane]

also, I'll note I've somewhat liked this catchup so far

[WhemeStar]

Stone cold thanks for makin my case for meh

[Stone Cold]

Figured he is gonna be town leader. It was kinda at random and he was the only name that stuck out to me.

Why does it matter

Yep terrible explanation

You're scum

Completely valid and persuasive argument

Awesome, we agree on something.

[Stone Cold]

2f gives reasoning when he tunnels. you need to do that because I think iaws is my strongest tr at this point.

Strongest townread?

[WhemeStar]

So who is the real acc of stone cold

[Stone Cold]

as I said earlier, his attitude around claiming was very rown. very dumb, but it is town. at that point I think I had a moderate tr of iaws. I think even moreso than wheme he's an attractive mislyn h and he just doesn't seem to have any ulterior motives. see 792: he's very open about dissecting his wagon. that's something I ALWAYS do when I'm a major wagon as town, because imo one of the best ways to analyze is to see how reasonable people's scum arguments against town you are. in other words, if somebody has a fake read the best person to tell is the person being read. I think it was town that he went right after bad votes on his wagon. I don't really mind kops vote (neutral on it) but that's not the point. also, 824 is pretty towny, it is the exact kind of thing is expect newb town to do because on the surface it is indeed a very bad explanation. more importantly, he was smart enough to call it terrible and /not/ vote wheme which is very important.

lots of small things but I haven't seen scum motivation in any of hid posts and he hasn't pinged me a single time iirc, he was a bad wagon d1 and hes a bad wagon now if he becomes one. people like to vote newbs when newbs have completrly different tells than experienced players.

You keep parroting his bullshit mimicry of WhemeStar's claim as if that makes him town. That's fucking disgusting.

He denies time after time that he'd new, but you keep giving him newbtown credit. That's fucking disgusting.

[Stone Cold]

"@Eddie...does the fact iaws is not a beginner change your opinion on his wagon?"

I'M pretty sure I've directly referenced that at least twice but regardless; that's literally the exact kind of thing beginners say. I've explained this in more detail so read more thoroughly

Oh yeah sure.

Beginner's say they've been playing Mafia for five years

all the fucking time

.

[Stone Cold]

I am thinking hans could be scum, I don't see any other reason why somebody would kill boon unless he was right. He certainly isn't a great threat to find scum normally

Winner, winner. Chicken dinner!

There is no other reason to kill Boon over the other options of claimed PR and softed PR unless the killed townie is actually onto scum.

[Stone Cold]

Dialoguing with TF implies that he has the capabilities to talk with someone without confbiasing literally everything they say as "omg obvscum". He's clearly proven that he doesn't have the mental capacity to do this, so continuing to go back and forth with him will only clutter the thread with anti-town nonsense.

True.

[Stone Cold]

also fits why is hans town

Meta. Feels town. We recently finished a game as scum partners and this feels different. Subject to change I suppose but nothing he's done so far has me sr'ing him.

Your Hans read is absolute garbage.

[Stone Cold]

VOTE: hans

this thread is slow as fuck reading a game like this is REALLY not a tall order

+1 on this.

VOTE: Hans

Better use of my vote than Eddie for the time being anyways.

Mod Replace Me out

Scum flip = blist and WotC request forever.

[Stone Cold]

Summary of all players coming soon.

[Stone Cold]

Work in Progress, reads are currently:

Primary suspects

SuperHans

- obvious Scum is obvious; should have been the d1 lynch.

implosion

- I stand by previous posts regarding this slot

Needs Review

Eddie Cane
Kop
horrordude0215
havingfitz

Others

TwoFace

- I really hate his focus on scumreading actions instead of hunting for scum motivation, but it's typical 2F.

WhemeStar

- The kid is lynchbait. His precessor did him a solid by crumbing early, because I can't picture any reason for Scum to crumb fruit vendor of all roles. It locks them into a claim that doesn't even buy them towncred. The behavior surrounding Wheme's claim makes it all the more believable that he is town.

DeathRowKitty

- Although she doesn't play the towniest game, 103-111 isn't something I see coming from Scum; Hans' push on her was really bad; 560 is a gem, in that it has good insight on implosion, bad logic for Hans, and solid reasoning for IAWS. If they had all been good insights, it could have been Scum with too much information. If they had all been bad logic, it could have been Scum fabricating reads. But the mixture of good/bad reasoning, as well as the way it was presented, rang genuine.

IAlwaysWinSometimes

- I originally hated his 535, but on review it reads as genuine confusion. Scum, new or not, tends to hop off a wagon upon claim. They don't generally try to keep lynching a PR claim on d1. 581 is also coming from an uninformed majority perspective. I can't picture scum asking that because scum would be conscious of the increased risk of exposing multiple members in a gambit. 614 is also a villagery self-evaluation.

[implosion]

So you stand by scumreading me for writing off wheme's claim as town... for the exact same reason that you are writing off wheme's claim as town?

The only other thing you've said about me that you've found scummy was my sheeping onto the cmm wagon d1 (and it's reasonable to find that scummy, it just happens to be incorrect).