This setup came about in a discussion on how to improve Matrix 6. One of the problems that RadiantCowbells discovered was that Matrix-6 can be broken by a series of BP/Not-BP claims. From here, Matrix-5 was born.
In post 28, momo wrote:maybe a one-shot or two-shot doctor.
just my 2 cents but what do yall think...
Not a bad idea I guess, but that's basically just column C but less town sided.
I don't think making a stronger scum role would change this problem. My main issue with the strategy is that it can confirm a townie on the first page of the game, which I don't think is the best idea for a newbie setup as it takes out a very important factor of playing mafia. I say change the bulletproof to a universal backup. It fits well with the setup. VOTE: BP->Universal Backup
JK
VT
Goon
RB
Cop
Doc
UB
Goon
Tracka
Last edited by TesXX on Sun Apr 23, 2017 2:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
In terms of helping scum (if you think A is now too strong for town, especially since row 2: cop/doc/rb is the biggest town win rate), it MIGHT be ok to consider turning the roleblocker into a roleblocker/encryptor. OTOH, town win rates in cop/doc/rb are already under 60%, and I'd be pretty surprised if they cleared 60% in JK/UB/rb, so I'm kind of thinking that daytalk for scum is a solution in search of a problem.
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Mhsmith0
Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
Life is simply unfair, don't you think?
Because you have a dead role that may or may not be active for the majority or entirety of the game depending on how NAs/lynches turn out.
A role whose power skyrockets the longer it stays alive to the point that it could swing games if the JK/Tracker is killed in soloscum.
Because it could simply be killed before it had a chance to contribute anything to the game.
Because it makes the other TPR somewhat expendable thereby diminishing the risk of outing a result.
Because you lose the interaction of BP & JK which is one of the more elegant combinations I know of off the top of my head.
Essentially whether or not it is ever a useful presence in the game is almost entirely out of its control and it also directly influences the behavior of other roles in a clunky way that is not entirely conducive to clean gameplay.
Elegant game design mostly involves simplicity and smooth functioning (all the puzzle pieces fitting together neatly) and there are scenarios where UB is just kind of an awkward thing to have in the game.
But take my answer with a grain of salt because others in thread like smith/RC know far more than I about mafia design, I only know about balance and game design as a thing due to work with other games.
hi meet my mafiascum gravestone, the flowers were probably left by camn or schadd or Prism, blow them kisses for me would you?
In post 59, Alisae wrote:make the newbie setup 7 vts and 2 goons.
that always works.
it's still important for them to get familiar with basic roles and role-interactions, but those familiarizations shouldn't take precedence over learning to scumhunt either
It's actually not, for the important reason that interactions with a confirmed town will be non-indicative from everyone since all know the slot is essentially conftown. Objectively, you probably want a BP/not BP claim around the middle of D1, and then a tracker claim (if no BP) sometime before the end of the day phase (but super late in the day is perfectly fine).
Alternatively, you could just have a site meta where people don't policy lynch the BP claims later in the game, and then suddenly there's much less utility to the claim strategy in the first place. But since that's not really on the table, instead we are discussing swapping the BP with some other role that has strong incentive not to claim d1, eliminating the issue wholesale.
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Mhsmith0
Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
Life is simply unfair, don't you think?
In post 67, mhsmith0 wrote:
Alternatively, you could just have a site meta where people don't policy lynch the BP claims later in the game, and then suddenly there's much less utility to the claim strategy in the first place. But since that's not really on the table, instead we are discussing swapping the BP with some other role that has strong incentive not to claim d1, eliminating the issue wholesale.
let's get it on the table and shift site-meta, it really needs to happen anyway, and this is a great place to start
mhsmith0 wrote:It's actually not, for the important reason that interactions with a confirmed town will be non-indicative from everyone since all know the slot is essentially conftown. Objectively, you probably want a BP/not BP claim around the middle of D1, and then a tracker claim (if no BP) sometime before the end of the day phase (but super late in the day is perfectly fine).
Alternatively, you could just have a site meta where people don't policy lynch the BP claims later in the game, and then suddenly there's much less utility to the claim strategy in the first place. But since that's not really on the table, instead we are discussing swapping the BP with some other role that has strong incentive not to claim d1, eliminating the issue wholesale.
Actually doing the BP or not BP claims in the middle of day after interactions have happened would not be a bad idea.
Last edited by TesXX on Wed Apr 26, 2017 1:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Mhsmith0
Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
Life is simply unfair, don't you think?
