Mini Normal 1909: Girls ♥ Girls 1 ~ Endgame

[nancy]

Votecount 1.11

Alisae (3)

~ Boonskiies, Firebringer, Keyser Söze

Aristophanes (2)

~ rb, implosion

Nachomamma8 (1)

~ TheRealGin-N-Tonic

implosion (1)

~ Titus

Titus (1)

~ Nachomamma8

Keyser Söze (1)

~ Alisae

Not voting (4)

~ Aristophanes, Hikari Link, Tammy,

Fro99er

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.
Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2017-05-17 02:40:00).

[Nachomamma8]

\o/

I've been waiting for Keyser to catchup; wanted to see if he managed to change his reads even a little (since it felt like he decided what reads he would have and kept them throughout his entire catchup) and I see he's still peddling me/Gin/Alisae.

I'm very happy to see Prism here, excited to see what he can do once he gets into his zone and stays there and will be pestering him in any way possible to help him along.

[Keyser Söze]

The first bolded is factual, but it was unnecessary to say. It felt defensive in the guilty type way. (Want to different from over defensive which I don't find scummy).

The second bolded is based on Alisae scum hunting you, which he should be doing if he's town.

I wanted to add clarity to every position I hold.


I felt implosion's read on my early catch-up posts was the more sincere/natural.

Alisae's OMGUS/discrediting/miss-repping angle of my catch-up only fuels my scum-read of him (I.e "only strengthens my scum-read").

I still stand by both of my statements.

[Keyser Söze]

I see he's still peddling me/Gin/Alisae.

Convince me of scum outside you three, and help me re-evaluate:

[I wanted Nacho to present his arguments/cases on his strongest scum-reads first too.]

[Tammy]

Frogger - I will be interested in talking to you about Titus and Implosion when I have a minute. I don't have any quibbles about your other town reads as that is mostly where my head is at too. I think I feel the weakest about Alisae and that's mostly due to some of the mocking and caps, both of which have a tendency to through me off whenever players use them a bunch.

I have to get ready to leave so I'll have to read nacho's walls and respond there when I come back.

[Tammy]

Implosion/Gin - Who all is in the neighborhood?

[Tammy]

Oh I do kinda like Frogger's wall. i liked the progression on his Alisae read mostly. He came to the right conclusion on Nacho, but he expects a whole lot of understanding of his meta and knowledge of games that is pretty impossible for Nacho to know.

I skimmed his conversation with Gin and eh not sure what to make of there.

All right, heading out. Get to anything I missed when i come back.

[Tammy]

I see he's still peddling me/Gin/Alisae.

Convince me of scum outside you three, and help me re-evaluate:

[I wanted Nacho to present his arguments/cases on his strongest scum-reads first too.]

Nothing you read from beginning to end made you doubt your three scum reads at all?

[Keyser Söze]

Nothing you read from beginning to end made you doubt your three scum reads at all?

Alisae scum read: Possibly for a moment when Alisae town read implosion (I liked him looking at town motivation vs scum motivation) - but then Alisae ditched that read to jump on implosion's wagon.

Nacho scum read: Everyone is shouting at me saying that Nacho is the towniest son of a bitch that has ever walked the earth, so that is making me feel concerned, yes.

Gin scum read: I do not undertsand what Gin has been doing since the start of the game. Possibly a question of playstyle..(?) but the town-drive is not there for me.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Implosion/Gin - Who all is in the neighborhood?

Myself and Implosion

Also if anyone is in a hood as well, they need to spill it because if so, there is a confirmed scum in either of our hoods.

Welcome to my gambit.

I need to know if I'm the only hood before I continue.

[Nachomamma8]

I'll post my responses to you in chunks since you're here, Keyser.

This makes me feel uncomfortable. Why pick this out?
Uh-oh my early scum-associations radar is pinging.

As we talked about later in the game this post is one I remember off the top of my head, Tammy and I have been playing together and Gin expects us to be able to read one another. While I think that it was probably a play from an overexcited Gin to expect us interact

immediately

as opposed to fairly quickly, I don't think that it's intuitive to assume that Gin and I are scum together - did you read/understand the explanation later and did it affect your opinion on the situation or no?

Nope. Not buying the tone or sincerity.

Why? Those were fairly offhand comments, did you not buy into them because they were too much substance early?

Looks like reaching hard to explain an early town read.
Set phasers to stun.

This is my style in a nutshell, as rb noted, I tend to be very reasons-heavy as an individual - why do you think that reaching in order to add words to gut reads early is scummy? Is it just unbelievable in that it's impossible for someone to think something early game AND try to explain it?

Not buying this as an actual scum-hunting question.

Weird post to attack. Alisae thought that Boonskiies voting rb for the "flashwagon comment" was opportunistic and a bit too shallow to be believable, and unless you think that "not picking up on jokes" is a scumtell (I don't), I don't actually think that you can make a case for this being scummy.

[Alisae]

I am not in a neighborhood

[Nachomamma8]

Also if anyone is in a hood as well, they need to spill it because if so, there is a confirmed scum in either of our hoods.

Please don't go down this rabbit hole; legitimately one of the easiest games that I've ever won as scum was because there was a 5 person neighborhood and 4 of them got lynched because "there has to be scum in the neighborhood!" paranoia.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

I'm no fool

I know what I'm trying to accomplish

[Nachomamma8]

Whatcha gonna do about that "feel terrible" scum-read?

Early game, I wanted to start a chucklefuck wagon on him to see if I worry him about being lynched early a bit. People didn't end up taking the bait, so no dice there. When he ignored the push on me immediately, I played up the scumread on him to get him respond but still didn't really get anything substantial. This post is me exploring my concern that he was begging for people to pay attention to him without anything substantial to say. Here I prodded him on his attempt to sort me; I didn't think "why are you so active and town???" was a valid question, so I made him explain why he was asking it. I was satisfied with his explanation. This is me prodding at him for making a big show of interacting with me and sorting me but still not actually sorting me. This is me urging for him to talk about the reads I generated, to get some more content on the table - I followed up with it when he didn't respond shortly after, but stopped pursuing it because the discussion with Frogger was along the lines of what I was looking for.

Your case against me here seems to be that because I'm not voting him, I'm not sorting him, but that simply isn't true - Gin in particular I'm willing to give some room (and I'm far more interested in what he does outside of interactions with me anyways so it's not like pressing him is going to help with that) - I also haven't found problems with his positions or his reasoning at all, I've just had a problem with him not scumhunting hard enough yet which is a fairly nebulous concern and not exactly something I can just make him do, especially since we're still in a fairly early stage of the game.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic's random naked votes on Alisae and Nachomamma8 continue to feed my scum-team theory.]

Why do you think Gin would random vote us randomly if we were all partners together? Do you think his motivation there is so he can point to those naked votes down the road and say that we aren't partners together or do you think he simply feels the need to remind us that he's our scumbuddy?

No it doesn't. It is null. Explain to me scum-Fro99er's scum-motivation.

Not everything that you do in a mafia game is intentional. Sometimes, you get frustrated and engaged in a shitshow fight despite the best intentions not to, and sometimes you end up lurking despite not believing that it at all helps your win condition. In this specific situation, I had reason to believe that Frogger had a strong preference for town over scum, and I had strong reason to believe that he was the type of person who got drawn into addressing pushes on him as town (and I explained where I was coming from in this belief). I believed that there was a possibility that Frogger was demoralized on drawing scum because he wanted to solve the game with his friends and as a result was having trouble forcing himself to post - there was a possibility that something else was going on but I strongly believed that if I was right, he wouldn't be able to shake my pressure off him even once he was able to get some posts together and the idea he was caught and he had to dig himself out of a hole would make his job harder - if I was wrong, Frogger as town has been extremely comfortable when responding to pressure and I wasn't worried that I'd mislynch him for that reasoning.

We will play a full game soon (perhaps in Boys ♥ Boys's?)

Spoiler: ♥

~ I'm flattered. Think they want some company? ~

Spoiler: ♥

[Titus]

@Tammy -984 - Comparing Gin to Ari.

First things first, I thought you were referencing a post you made. I had no clue, so I said so. Then you accuse me of being hostile and deflecting when I say that. The why couldn't I just say so is frankly annoying. I would respond with quotes but too many.

Second, the gin post is not requiring me to be crazy to be town. He was townreading the self awareness. Ari's post implying that I get knocked down for making sense is a problem. Not the fact that Gin acknowledged historical accuracy.

@986 - I cannot really go into more detail which is why I am not saying omg obvscum. I am not eased by you two vouching for each other so heavily, but I am aware of your relationship and you do know each other quite well. Implosion doesn't fit that bill, so I am focused there.

[Titus]

I'm deferring until he's caught up.

Yes, I am now fully caught up.

I can offer my reads/thoughts on any player to you (from the available information).

Do you see anything off in the early interactions between nacho and implosion?

[Nachomamma8]

No, it does not make sense to me. Alisae's scum-cases on both Fro99er and Boonskiies lack any credence, substance or momentum, thus, I cannot see how you are using 'scum-motivation'/'in his best interests' for reasons to defend Alisae. I do not understand how you are town-reading his supposed "frustation' either. It feels like your finger is not on the pulse of this game (i.e you're defending Alisae for reasons which do not even exist).

I find it disingenuous that you're pretending that there's just no way that I can have a townread on Alisae even though I strongly disagreed with his case because I saw a lack of scum motivation in his posting when "it doesn't have scum motivation" is the same reason you thought that my attack on Frogger was off. I explained before (and I'm not sure what you disagreed with as far as my explanation goes), but I don't think it makes sense for Alisae to go full rambo on Frogger then drop Frogger and go full rambo on Boonskiies in such a short amount of time; as scum, he's risking making a number of enemies and alienating himself from townies for basically no reason - I also think that Frogger's point about emotional attachment to pushes is a good one; from my experience with him, Alisae as town early can get a bit overzealous in pushes and overextend himself in some of his pushes but when I'm seen him as town he's usually a hell of a lot more reasonable about it.

"it's possible that Frogger is town doing a weird gambit" is enough reason to conclude null on it.

This is not a valid argument - I'm playing a game where I'm supposed to psychic out whether other people's role PMs are green or red - there's always a very large chance I'm wrong at any given moment but that doesn't mean that it's not worth it to pursue my suspicions anyways.

[I wanted Nacho to present his arguments/cases on his strongest scum-reads first too.]

I've very recently put my thoughts into a "state of the game" post - I'm not posting another one until I have reads on Prism, you, Aristophanes, Hikari Link, and Frogger that are a little more substantive.

[Nachomamma8]

titus

it

started with gut,

then

he continuously kept echoing things i was thinking and/or explicitly trying to advance the state of how solved the game was more than i think he has great reason to as scum in this player list.
I also really liked tammy's reason for townreading him.

it started with gut, then he continuously kept echoing things i was thinking and/or explicitly trying to advance the state of how solved the game was more than i think he has great reason to as scum in this player list.
I also really liked tammy's reason for townreading him.

When did that start

? Because he had voted you previously

you asked when my townread STARTED
i.e. asking about the first part of it
i.e. asking about the gut read
why would i even argue this way as scum
your point makes no fucking sense

i don't have any real scumreads yet, just a big pile of townreads. had one on alisae but questioning it.

Titus, why didn't you respond to this post?

[Tammy]

Nothing you read from beginning to end made you doubt your three scum reads at all?

Alisae scum read: Possibly for a moment when Alisae town read implosion (I liked him looking at town motivation vs scum motivation) - but then Alisae ditched that read to jump on implosion's wagon.

Nacho scum read: Everyone is shouting at me saying that Nacho is the towniest son of a bitch that has ever walked the earth, so that is making me feel concerned, yes.

Gin scum read: I do not undertsand what Gin has been doing since the start of the game. Possibly a question of playstyle..(?) but the town-drive is not there for me.

Other people have leaning town reads on Nacho, but I'm pretty sure I'm the only one saying he's the towniest thing that ever walked the earth this game. I expect people to take my read into account, yes, but why does people town reading him make you feel concerned?

[Tammy]

@Tammy -984 - Comparing Gin to Ari.

First things first, I thought you were referencing a post you made. I had no clue, so I said so. Then you accuse me of being hostile and deflecting when I say that. The why couldn't I just say so is frankly annoying. I would respond with quotes but too many.

Second, the gin post is not requiring me to be crazy to be town. He was townreading the self awareness. Ari's post implying that I get knocked down for making sense is a problem. Not the fact that Gin acknowledged historical accuracy.

@986 - I cannot really go into more detail which is why I am not saying omg obvscum. I am not eased by you two vouching for each other so heavily, but I am aware of your relationship and you do know each other quite well. Implosion doesn't fit that bill, so I am focused there.

Never called you hostile or even implied it.

I did say that your response made me think you were deflecting because you didn't answer my question. Which you didn't, you didn't say you had no clue, you said: "You did?" That does not tell me you thought it was a post i made. It doesn't tell me you didn't understand what I said. When i say why didn't you have a similar reaction to someone else and you answer "You did?" That reads to me like you are asking me if I had a similar reaction and are turning the question back on me.

I'm completely fine if you didn't understand. It makes sense that you didn't understand what I was referring to. I was in catch up mode and was asking a question based on posts that were quite close to each other in my catch up, so I asked a question based on where I was. That part of the miscommunication was all me. But you didn't say you didn't understand, if you don't understand a question I have, just tell me that and I can rephrase or quote what I'm referring to.

But both of the posts reference you being moonlogicy or crazy as town. Gin even said that you go kinda weird logic and then get ignored. Aristophanes' comment felt like a joke or maybe a comment about a common thing that people have said many times in many games. Like in Gay Mafia Desperado literally said that if you make sense you're scum whereas if you're making no sense you're town.

I thought if you really felt like Aristophanes making that throwaway comment was discrediting you that you'd feel similarly about Gin making a comment that references your craziness.

[Tammy]

@986 - I cannot really go into more detail which is why I am not saying omg obvscum. I am not eased by you two vouching for each other so heavily, but I am aware of your relationship and you do know each other quite well. Implosion doesn't fit that bill, so I am focused there.

Why can't you go into more detail?

[Nachomamma8]

Keyser, I am a sucker for people who suspect me when I'm being townread and your position on me is no exception - there are plenty of games where I'm sort of phoning it in early game and I feel like I might get mislynched and this doesn't really feel like the case here. That's mitigated somewhat by your reasoning. Your position on my early Frogger reads seems a bit unbelievable to me, for example; if I am scum and making a push on a townie who is gambitting, I know that he's not getting mislynched because eventually the gambit will break and my push will be invalidated - thus it doesn't seem incredibly opportunistic to push him unless I really believe he's having a really off game (in which case the narrative where I'm town who thinks he might be scum makes a lot of sense to me). I also don't really understand why you're pushing back as hard against my Alisae townread as you are but not giving Frogger's a sidelong glance; I understand that's probably because Frogger's demonstrated a lot more doubt than I have, but I would think that someone who was scumreading Alisae but later started townreading him would factor into your overall read but it just didn't.

The big concern I have for your catchup posts is the concern Alisae and Tammy have already expressed; it feels like you decided what reads you'd have before you started catching up. It might be because of format and I might have missed something, but every comment you've made on Me/Gin/Alisae (with the exception of a single Alisae point) has been negative and every comment you've made on everyone else, and that seems unnatural to me. I think that it's natural to doubt yourself and doubt your reads in a game of this nature, and while it's completely possible that you're just a bit confbiased as town I can see a very clear picture where you as scum form three main scumreads because that's how many scum you're looking for and then making a narrative from there.

I do appreciate you catching up as quickly as you did, know that it couldn't have been easy and if there's anything you're looking for from me in particular let me know.

[Tammy]

Of course this may change when we see aris's actual reaction to the game so far, and this is also explained by his general personality. Aris is also just a slot that needs to do more~

I absolutely agree with this!

The rest of the post I understand even though it's wrong

well aren't u just a friendly little scum

That's what they say!

U haz treats? I can do tricks if you haz treats!

Nacho do you think this would be a little too cheeky coming from Aristophanes scum?

[Nachomamma8]

VOTE: Ari

How many votes you got in you?

I'm finding this rather amusing tbh!

probably yes

i think i'll probably briefly look into his recent scumgames before doing anything else because i was getting paranoia vibes on clearing him based on banter but at a minimum this is a light year and a half away from questionable content and he probably wouldn't swing into this confident so quickly?