Mini 1907: Oddrole Mafia IV (Game over)

[Chickadee]

But for serious, how does it make sense to scumread me for saying the dude you're voting probably isn't scum? Have you decided he's not scum? If so, why target me? Do you still think he's scum?

Why the hell

would you relieve the pressure on him by hopping off a solid wagon?

You're move here makes zero sense for town. It makes a lot of sense for scum looking for an out after instigating a wagon on not-scum.

VOTE: chickadee looks like you learn quickly.

P-edit - I was responding above to Chicka and gl

EBWOP. New phone isn't used to my potty mouth.

Let me get this straight. You didn't like my vote on Desp because you think I was biased. Then you don't like my vote on you because I'm not voting for Desp anymore.

To be clear, I'm not voting you for saying Desp isn't scum. I'm voting you because everything you say sounds forced, making you my biggest scum read right now. I can still be suspicious of Desperado while voting you. Why does it have to be one or the other?

[boring]

But for serious, how does it make sense to scumread me for saying the dude you're voting probably isn't scum? Have you decided he's not scum? If so, why target me? Do you still think he's scum?

Why the hell

would you relieve the pressure on him by hopping off a solid wagon?

You're move here makes zero sense for town. It makes a lot of sense for scum looking for an out after instigating a wagon on not-scum.

VOTE: chickadee looks like you learn quickly.

P-edit - I was responding above to Chicka and gl

EBWOP. New phone isn't used to my potty mouth.

Let me get this straight. You didn't like my vote on Desp because you think I was biased. Then you don't like my vote on you because I'm not voting for Desp anymore.

To be clear, I'm not voting you for saying Desp isn't scum. I'm voting you because everything you say sounds forced, making you my biggest scum read right now. I can still be suspicious of Desperado while voting you. Why does it have to be one or the other?

Your only specified issue with my tone was that you believed I was trying to make you look scummy. I.e., your concerns over how town you appear are at the root of your issues with my "tone". That's scummy in itself.

And again,

if a town player thinks someone is scum, and the alleged scum has a decent-sized (and growing) wagon, it makes absolutely

no sense

to leave that wagon unless they've changed their read on that person

. It goes without saying at this point that I disagree with the wagon, but I'm not going to scumread people just for being wrong, biased, or even selfish (if that's why you're so image-obsessed). I am, however, concerned with your motives. I see no town motive in hopping off the substantial wagon you've formed on "scum" to place a vanity vote the person who's telling you your wagon is wrong.

@Brie - Yes, I was talking about Desperado. Chickadee asked me what I thought of Desperado's play, and I said it was "meh". She and GuiltyLion decided that I was was magically talking about my read of his alignment, even though context made it very obvious I was talking about his play, and chose to pretend it was an inconsistency with my statement in the post right before it, where I said he was probably town. Because apparently, I'm not only scum, but I'm the most retarded scum player in the history of mafiascum.

[Chickadee]

I don't think Desperado's position is a very smart one for scum to take. He's taken a "sweet" player, and is tunnelling her from her first post. If they're scum together, I can almost see it, but in all other worlds, it's a really dumb move as it calls unnecessary attention to oneself. Besides,

it's a guarantee that the person targeted in the beginning of Day 1 (and usually) Day 2 isn't getting lynched that day. There are too many ways for the wind to blow.

He's much more likely arrogant town than a gambling scum.

So can the wind blow different directions or not? You're contradicting yourself at this point. Honestly, it sounds like you're trying to rush through day when we have 8 and a half irl days left in D1.

I see nothing wrong with switching votes to my top scum read. And I'll say it again, it's because you are saying things that sound really forced. It's not because you scum read me. If toward the end of the day the town decides that Desperado is the better lynch, I'm fine switching back to him. For now, my vote stays with you.

[Chickadee]

I realize that Desperado isn't the first wagon of the day, just for the record. The bolded underlined section is more pointing to the fact that earlier you didn't seem to have any qualms with people's reads switching around.

[boring]

I meant that line specifically that I've never, ever seen the first wagon of Day 1 be the Day 1 lynch. And Day 2 only once because some poor, poor townie made a huge mistake and we (I was scum) nailed him to the wall over it.

Switching isn't the issue. As I've made painfully clear, it was the way you switched. You switched off your scum read, off a wagon that you started. A wagon with momentum. You switched off that, and onto the person who wasn't going to join your stupid wagon.

I don't care that you're voting me. I've yet to be mislynched, and I doubt it'll start now. I only care how you came to vote me. It was scummy from start to finish.

[Chickadee]

So would it have been better for me to basically say "boring is my top scum read, but I'll keep my vote on Desperado..."

No.

I don't believe in being locked into a wagon just because it has momentum, especially when theres plenty of time left in the day.

[TheBrie]

Interesting argument. Chick is making sense. Boring isn't quite. Yet I don't get a strong scum feel, so I'll keep with where I'm at.

Reading back through things I'm getting a townie vibe off JavaJoe despite his lack of posts. Personally I think his claim of not having a protective role came from genuine town. I don't think scum would specifically say they didn'ty have a role.

@Snarky what do you think of Chickadee now? And do you still think Almost50 is too talkative?

[massive]

Who wants to tell me what's wrong with TheBrie's post above?

[Rautherdir]

Actually, scum saying they didn't have a particular type of role could be scum reinforcing another claim later on, making that claim sound better.

[Javajoe24]

I am getting a town read on chickadee, but I have only had a chance to skim, I fell asleep after work yesterday.

[massive]

Can you elaborate on what might be causing you to feel that way, Joe?

[eagerSnake]

VC 1.15

Desperado (4) [L-3]: GuiltyLion, podoboq, Creature, Rautherdir
Chickadee (4) [L-3]: Desperado, SnarkySnowman, massive, boring
SnarkySnowman (2) [L-5]: GinghamDog, TheBrie
Javajoe24 (1) [L-6]: Almost50
boring (1) [L-6]: Chickadee

Not Voting (1): Javajoe24

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Day 1 deadline in (expired on 2017-05-19 12:33:03).

[Chickadee]

People really need to get in here and weigh in. This day is creeping along.

[Javajoe24]

Can you elaborate on what might be causing you to feel that way, Joe?

Based on what I read it seems to me checkadee is coming from more a town mindset. It could just be that they aren't playing the way I would play as scum though. Call it a gut read

[GinghamDog]

Based on what I read it seems to me checkadee is coming from more a town mindset. It could just be that they aren't playing the way I would play as scum though. Call it a gut read

Do you have any scum reads?

[massive]

Can you elaborate on what might be causing you to feel that way, Joe?

Based on what I read it seems to me checkadee is coming from more a town mindset. It could just be that they aren't playing the way I would play as scum though. Call it a gut read

Can you give any specific examples of something you find particularly towny?

[TheBrie]

Actually, scum saying they didn't have a particular type of role could be scum reinforcing another claim later on, making that claim sound better.

Good point. Sometime I don't expect people to be that clever. I wasn't getting the clever impression from Java.

[TheBrie]

Hey Snarky, if you don't come along and answer my questions or provide any reads, should I assume you haven't changed your mind on anything?

[Rautherdir]

Actually, scum saying they didn't have a particular type of role could be scum reinforcing another claim later on, making that claim sound better.

Good point. Sometime I don't expect people to be that clever. I wasn't getting the clever impression from Java.

And that 'not clever' impression could also be part of the ruse. However we have drifted into the territory of WIFOM, so we should probably conclude that it is NAI.

[Almost50]

People really need to get in here and weigh in. This day is creeping along.

Getting accurate/reliable reads off what's going on in the past 48 hours is harder than pulling teeth. I am waiting for something to comment on but I'm stuck with nothing much to add. Perhaps I'm not in the right mindset? Not sure.

[Chickadee]

People really need to get in here and weigh in. This day is creeping along.

Getting accurate/reliable reads off what's going on in the past 48 hours is harder than pulling teeth. I am waiting for something to comment on but I'm stuck with nothing much to add. Perhaps I'm not in the right mindset? Not sure.

No, I understand that. I dropped that comment about people getting in here, and haven't posted since myself, because there's just no new info for me to comment on right now.

[SnarkySnowman]

I keep saying I will give this game attention but I keep failing to catch up. If I don't get on this by tomorrow night I'll replace out. Sorry for my activity guys

[boring]

Interesting argument. Chick is making sense. Boring isn't quite.

What in particular doesn't make sense? I'm afraid I've run out of ways to explain why her "tone reading" and vote-hop are so scummy, but I'm willing to give it another go, if necessary.

[GuiltyLion]

You guys can't be that dense. I think he's probably town, but his play is "meh" as in not good but not awful. You don't have to make good quality moves to be townread.

sorry, it was late the other day when I asked you that question and in hindsight and rereading your 209-230 progression it makes sense. I don't think I really paid attention to the fact that Chickadee asked you specifically what you thought of his

play

, I thought you were updating your read on him, so on second reread I get why you answered that way

[GuiltyLion]

However, it's perfectly reasobable for Chick to belive both boring and Desperado are scum and swap if she feel this is more useful. It's also reasonable for her to still suspect Boring even if Desperado appears as not scum.

I disagree completely with this, town doesn't have a reason to jump off a big wagon on their scumread onto a vanity wagon unless their read itself changes. I agree with boring it looks like it could be a move to hop off of a building wagon while leaving room to jump back on when it's even easier to justify the vote.

The problem I'm having is that the composition of the Chickadee wagon on the whole looks pretty bad outside of boring and I really want to stay away from it.

@massive - why are you ignoring me?